ZBA Minutes 2006 08-08-06 Page 1 of 8
PPROVED 9/6/06
UNITED CITY OF YORKVILLE
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS MEETING
Tuesday, August 8, 2006, 7PM
City Conference Room
Board Members in Attendance
Bill Davis Harold Feltz
Mike Skinner Ryan Woods
Ralph Pfister Ben Moe
Other City Staff in Attendance
Anna Kurtzman, ICCI
Travis Miller, Community Development Director(approx.9:45 following city Council meeting)
Guests:
Paul Bertie, Wal-Mart
Katie Cunningham, Gardner, Carton &Douglas (Wal-Mart)
Chuck Gilmore, Atwell-Hicks/Wal-Mart
William Woodward, KLOA(traffic engineer)
John Waggoner, Wal-Mart (PB2)
Richard Hayes, Wal-Mart (PB2)
The meeting was called to order at 7:00pm by Chairman Bill Davis. Roll call was taken
and a quorum was established.
Previous Meeting Minutes July 5, 2006
Ryan Woods and Mike Skinner respectively moved and seconded to approve the minutes
as read.
Old Business:
On a motion and second by Mike Skinner &Harold Feltz, Old Business 2006-41 was
opened. Carried on a voice vote. Ms. Kurtzman said that this is a continuation of the
request from July(variance requests for Wal-Mart) and Mr. Davis so noted.
Ms. Katie Cunningham then introduced herself as an attorney with Gardner, Carton &
Douglas from Chicago on behalf of Wal-Mart and Atwell-Hicks, engineers for Wal-Mart.
She introduced the others present.
Page 2 of 8
Paul Bertie of Atwell-Hicks reviewed 2 parking and 3 signage variances being requested
at this meeting:
1. Variance to maximum width of a drive entrance to a site, from 25 feet to 36 feet.
He said 25 feet is for a residential driveway.
2. Variance to standard parking stall dimensions from 19 feet x 9 feet for angled
parking and 8 feet x 18.5 feet for straight parking TO 9.5 feet x 18.5 feet in the
customer-preferred angled parking.
3. They are requesting 3 rather than 2 signs for their comer lot. Two would be
"Wal-Mart Supercenter, open 24 hours" signs and one directional.
4. Sign height being requested is 30' tall, 10' taller than allowed.
5. Requesting 140 square feet rather than 100 square feet allowed on signs
Mr. Bertie also demonstrated where the signs would be located and said 2 would be at the
entrances, while the 3`d is a 20-foot tall directional sign for Tire & Lube Express.
John Waggoner, Sr. Design Architect then addressed the committee. He is requesting the
following:
1. A variance in the height of the building from 30.8 feet to 41.8 feet due to the
articulation of the entrances.
2. A variance in the number of directional signs on the building facade.
The committee then discussed the requests. Mr. Skinner asked about similar requests on
other Wal-Mart projects. Mr. Bertie answered that in the surrounding states where Wal-
Mart projects have been completed, no variance requests have been disapproved. He
added that Wad-Mart has two types of signs: the pole signs and the monument signs.
Mr. Skinner noted that the height of the building is already going to be taller than normal
and he is in favor of a monument style sign. The outlot buildings will not be as tall as the
Wal-Mart and those buildings would be limited to a height of 35 feet.
The surrounding zoning was discussed and Ms. Kurtzman said there is a request coming
before the Plan Commission to zone all of the property being discussed, as commercial.
Due to the number of variance requests, Chairman Davis suggested that the committee
should consider each one separately. The first one discussed was the variance for the
building height. Mr. Feltz asked if the Fire Department could service a building this
height; they can service up to 5 stories.
The next consideration was the variance for the number of free-standing signs from 2 to 3
signs. Mr. Woods recommended the monument signs at the entrances and also lowering
the tire and lube sign by 10 feet. There was further discussion of sign heights and related
visibility. It was noted that the signs wil l be more difficult to see once the area is more
developed and that Wal-Mart is creating that situation by selling the outlots. Speed on
Rt. 34 is also a factor in the visibility of the signs.
Page 3 of 8
A motion was made by Ryan Woods and seconded by Ralph Pfister to close the Public
Hearing. Carried on a voice vote.
New Business:
Harold Feltz moved and Ben Moe seconded to enter into New Business. Carried on
voice vote.
The following comments regarding the signs were made by committee members: there
are many signs between the building and pole signs, visibility is not an issue. Local
people will know where Wal-mart is located, signs are for benefit of out-of-town visitors,
should not go against standards in place
Chairman Davis asked Mr. Bettie about the parking stall size changes. Customers prefer
angle parking and the ease of maneuvering carts between cars parked in this manner. It
was noted that there will be more paving with angle parking and therefore more water to
collect there when it rains, however, there will be a retention pond for drainage.
The building height was addressed again and Ms. Kurtzman said there is nothing in the
code regarding the height as it pertains to final approval. The committee agreed to
recommend the height variance request. Mr. Davis suggested the height could be tied to
the monument signs. He said the size of the building and fagade has visual awareness,
thereby negating the need for the pole signs. He added that the ZBA committee is
looking at a shift to erect all monument signs and noted that Montgomery is asking their
businesses to remove pole signs over a 2-year period.
Mr. Bertie said he would be comfortable with 15 foot signs, except for the tire and lube
sign and he requested that it not be a monument sign. A bricked-in pole sign was also
suggested and Menards' sign was cited as an example. Mr. Moe said a pole sign would
be ok providing it were made more appealing and to not allow the tire and lube sign
could create a hardship. Several committee members said 15 feet was too high for this
sign and that it should not be any higher than IDOT uses for directional signs. The tire
and lube sign was also mentioned as presenting too much clutter, however, it was noted
that this sign is considered directional.
There was no further discussion in New Business so Ms. Kurtzman said it would be
appropriate to review the Finding of Fact and she briefly reviewed each of the variance
requests; the first 3 being zoning requests and the last 4 are signage requests. The
variance requests were discussed in the order they appeared on Ms. Kurtzman's memo
included in the agenda packet and are as follows:
Page 4 of 8
1. Increase the maximum height of a principal building from 35 feet to 41 feet 8
inches (Section 10-7D-6).
2. Increase the maximum width of a curb cut from 25 feet to 36 feet(Section 10-11-
3:E)
3. Reduce the length of a parking stall from 18.5 feet for 90 degree parking stalls
and from 19 feet for 60 degree parking stalls to 18 feet (Section 10-11-3:C)
FINDING OF FACT [for zoning]:
1. ...any unique physical property of the land involved?
Comments: Wal-mart could follow strict letter of ordinance,but these requests are to suit
Wal-Mart's needs.
2. ...conditions.. are unique to property and not applicable to other properties...
Comments: Each property is unique, property is on a comer
3. ...difficulty not created by any person having interest in property..
Comments: Alleged hardship is created by Wal-Mart, not past title-holders,hardship by
design of property
4. ...granting of variation not detrimental to public welfare..
Comments: wider turn lanes and parking stalls would be helpful,height could be visual
nuisance, but no public objecting that it is detrimental
5. ...proposed variation does not impair adequate supply of air...
Comments: no public present saying this variation diminishes property values
Recommendations on Vt three zoning requests:
1. Mr. Woods moved to accept variance for maximum height of the principal building
from 35 feet to 41.8 feet. Chairman Davis added to this recommendation that the height
is being allowed, but balanced with the signage. Mr. Skinner seconded,then added that
there was no consensus about the signs yet. It was suggested that there be an addendum
to the Council regarding the signage. The motion was then rephrased to exclude the
signage portion. Mr. Skinner seconded the amended motion. On a roll call vote, the
motion carried unanimously.
2. Ryan Woods then moved to increase the maximum width of the curb cut from 25 feet
to 36 feet and Harold Feltz seconded. Motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote.
3. It was moved and seconded by Mr. Woods and Mr. Moe respectively,to reduce the
length of the parking stalls from 18.5 feet for 90 degree parking stalls and from 19 feet
for 60 degree parking stalls to 18 feet. Carried unanimously on a roll call vote.
Page 5 of 8
Remaining 4 variance requests:
4. Have a free-standing sign located interior to the lot (Section 8-11-4-C2 stipulates
that signage is to be located along the perimeter of the property)
5. Increase the maximum height of a free-standing sign from the allowable 20 feet
to 30 feet for two signs (one at the southeast corner of property adjacent to Route 34
and one along Countryside Parkway) (Section 8-11-4-C2)
6. Increase the maximum allowable area of a free-standing sign from 100 sq. It to
140.5 feet for two free-standing signs (Section 8-11-4-C2)
7. Increase the number of signs located on a fagade from the maximum allowable of
2 per fagade (total maximum of 4) to 19 along the south fagade, 5 along the east
fagade and 8 along the west fagade(Section 8-11-4-C3a)
FINDING OF FACT [for signage):
1. ...any unique physical property of the land involved...
Comments: not unique, it is comer lot
2. ...available locations for signage on this property...
Comments: very adequate
3. ...effect of proposed sign on pedestrian and motor traffic..
Comments: All traffic will be able to see signs based on board's recommendations
4. ...cost to applicant ofcomplying...as opposed to detriment
Comments: not an issue
5. ...detriment to public from granting of variance
Comments: granting this variance would be doing disserve to City by allowing so much
signage
6 ...general intent of chapter...
Comments: to keep signage under control
Recommendations on remaining 4 variance requests:
1. A recommendation was made by Woods to accept free-standing sign located interior
of lot(the 3`d sign). Pfister seconded that recommendation. The roll call vote was split
evenly.
2. A new motion was made by Pfister to accept a free-standing sign located interior to
the lot, to be located along the perimeter of the property. Second by Woods. Motion did
not carry on a roll call vote.
Page 6 of 8
3. Another motion was made by Woods to accept the maximum height of the free-
standing height from the allowable of 20 feet to 30 feet for 2 signs. Second by Skinner.
Motion did not carry on a roll call vote.
4. Motion by Woods to increase the maximum allowable area of a free-standing sign
from 100 sq. ft. to 140.5 sq. ft. for 2 free-standing signs. Second by Pfister. Not carried
on a roll call vote.
5. Motion by Woods to increase number of signs located on a fagade from maximum
allowable 2 per fapade to signage based on exhibit by PB Engineering of April 7`s, later
revised on May 17, 2006. Second by Moe. Roll call vote carried unanimously.
Mr. Skinner then asked to address the guests. He said the Board has a responsibility to
the Yorkville citizens to create a more appealing look in signage, but a compromise is
needed from Wal-Mart. He added that the signs reflect the look of their signs 15 years
ago, but there is a new type of consumer.
He asked each Board member to state their opinions on the signs. The following
comments were made:
1. Suggestion of 100 sq. ft. monument sign for perimeter,matching brick on
building, no higher than 8 feet, prefer interior illumination, accept 3`d sign as
monument sign at 32 sq. ft., height of 8 feet from curb
2. Carry design of building to monument sign with capstone, exterior lighting,
height of 8 feet from curb, same for tire/lube sign-no lighting
3. Prefer taller signs-same signs as in past
4. Likes large brick base with sign on top, pillars to match building, ok with 100
sq. ft., 8 ft. high, overhead lighting, 16 sq. ft on 3`d sign, 8 ft. high
5. Tire &lube sign too high at 30 feet, 20 foot sign is ok with pillars, 3`d sign not
as effective at 8 ft. and needs to have brick around to conform to building
Mr. Waggoner added that the monument signs would utilize lighting from above for ease
of maintenance, to reduce vandalism and to maintain a subdued look.
Mike Skinner then made a recommendation: 2 perimeter signs of monument style,
matching brick to reflect style of building including brick column,to be no higher than 8
feet above top curb, 100 sq. ft maximum square feet of signage, overhead illumination.
Second by Woods. There was a brief discussion and Skinner withdrew that motion.
Mr. Davis asked the petitioner for their opinion and Mr. Bertie said he would need to
consult with Wal-Mart.
Page 7of8
Mr. Skinner then reintroduced his recommendation and Mr. Woods seconded. It was
noted by Mr. Feltz that it was acceptable to not have a unanimous vote since the Council
will make the final decision. Ms. Kurtzman added that there could be a final vote with all
the requests tied together. Roll call was taken on Skinner's motion. Motion passed,
however, not unanimously.
A recommendation was made regarding the tire and lube sign. Woods moved that it be
monument style, matching brick, maximum 32 sq. ft., 8 ft. height from top of curb.
Second by Skinner. Passed on roll call vote, but not unanimously.
Mr. Woods made a final recommendation: tie together the recommendations of the
perimeter signs as well as interior signs with the original variance request#1 and original
#7 as a total package [height of building &number of signs] as a compromise for
granting variances that exceed the standards. Skinner seconded. Motion carried on a roll
call vote with Feltz abstaining.
On a motion by Pfister and second by Feltz,New Business was closed. Carried on a
voice vote.
Additional Business:
Additional business opened on a motion and second by Pfister and Skinner. Carried on a
voice vote.
1. Sign Ordinance Update— Verbal presentation by Ms. Kurtzman
Ms. Kurtzman said the City has hired an Urban Planner and one of his first duties will be
to draft a sign code. She had samples from Montgomery and Oswego to be given to the
Planner and Ms. Kurtzman will be working with him. She added that the sign code is not
part of the zoning code so a Public Hearing is not required, but the draft will be presented
to the Zoning Board for their opinion.
(Mr. Miller joined meetingfollowing City Council)
Mr. Miller stated the staff members had drafted a survey regarding the sign ordinance,
out of concern for maintaining high standards.
Mr. Skinner recommended that Yorkville determine a policy independent of neighboring
towns. The policy should provide for pleasing signs and set the standards for other
towns. Mr. Pfister concurred with this opinion. Skinner also suggested that signage
should not be tied into or based on a P.U.D.
Pleasing, effective and lower height were some of the desirable signage characteristics
suggested to Mr. Miller. He cautioned that any changes put in place should be well-
thought out to anticipate challenges.
Page 8 of 8
The next meeting will be held on September 6. Prior to the meeting, Mr. Miller will
provide a draft of the sign ordinance in the packets to allow time to review.
Woods moved and Feltz seconded to close Additional Business. Carried on voice vote.
A motion to adjourn was made by Woods and seconded by Skinner at 10:07pm.
Minutes respectfully submitted by
Marlys Young, Minute Taker