COW Minutes 1999 06-02-99 r r
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UNITED CITY OF YORKVILLE
Town Meeting Minutes
Date of Meeting: June 2, 1999 Time Convened: 7:10 p.m.
Location: Beecher Center Time Adjourned: p.m.
Attendees:
Mayor Art Prochaska
Burt Callmer, alderman Ward 1
Richard Sticka, alderman Ward 1
Valerie Burd, alderman Ward 2
Larry Kot, alderman Ward 2
Tom Sowinski,alderman Ward 4
Rose Spears, alderman Ward 4
Bill Rice,Illinois Department of Natural Resources
Stephen Pescitelli, stream ecologist,Illinois Department of Natural Resources(DNR)
Bob Rung, biologist,DNR
Jim Langbein,regional fisheries biologist,DNR
Bob Welsh, engineer,DNR
Yorkville residents(see attached list)
Discussion:
1.) Possible removal of Glen Palmer Dam --Bill Rice told the audience that the Illinois
Department of Natural Resources(DNR)has put together a proposal to improve
safety at the Yorkville dam. It will be broken into two parts: a hydraulic review and a
biological survey. The hydraulic review will include doing stream cross sections to
determine the depth of the river at present and the depth it would be if the dam is
removed;the depth of sediments now and the depth if the dam is removed. Also,
they will consider upstream sediment, what will happen to it if the dam is removed.
Another issue they will study is the impact dam removal will have on property
values. They will also list the cost of dam removal.
Steve Pescitelli discussed the biological survey. He said the five things he will be
looking at are: 1. Evaluating the fish communities by collecting specimens by
stunning them, weighing and measuring them, and returning them to determine what
effect the dam has had on the fish population; 2. Evaluating the muscle population..
He said the muscle population has declined dramatically since the dam's installation,
but admitted that was more because of pollution than the effect of the dam. He said
there is evidence that the muscle population below the dam has health problems; 3.
Evaluate "the little bugs crawling around on the rocks'; 4. Do a lot of measurements
of habitats; 5. Have the Illinois Environmental Protection Agency do an analysis of
the river's sediment to make sure it is not contaminated,which would include killing
carp and catfish and testing them. Steve said that when a dam is removed, there is an
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unmistakeable improvement in the aquatic community. Wisconsin is out front in this
national dam removement push, he said, and he would be willing to invite Wisconsin
representatives down to Yorkville to talk about the process they have gone through in
their removal efforts.
Bill said that after these two studies are complete, he will schedule another meeting
with Yorkville residents to present the findings and to get their imput. He invited
Yorkville residents to phone his office with their comments. (Phone# 553-0164)
Asked by a resident why there wasn't any mention of the step-dam option,Bill said
that was a separate study that already had been done and presented.
Mayor Prochaska asked what about the removal of the other dams upriver? How can
the river improve when all the other dams will still be in place? Steve said they will
be looking at getting rid of all the dams,but that was not probable.
Resident Harold Feltz said the dam at McHenry would have to be removed or the
river won't be free-flowing. He said the removal of the Yorkville dam had to be part
of a package or he would be against its removal.
Resident Rose Kahle asked if the dam was removed,would properties flood out? Bill
! said there would be no effect below the dam. Only upstream properties would be
effected.
Resident Esther Riley asked how long it would take for the river to clean itself if the
dam were removed. Bill said this is the first time the DNR has looked at removing a
dam so he doesn't know yet. He said the impact on the sediment is one of the things
they will be studying,and that the study would cover the extent of the pool, to a
distance of 12,000 feet upstream.
Resident Allan Jiranek said that when the dam was installed, it took land off property
adjacent to the river. He wanted to know who would pay to restore this land if the
dam is removed and the water recedes? Bill said he would look into that.
Resident Tom Baumgartner said that he was concerned that in summer the McHenry
dam restricts the flow of water into the giver when rain fall is low,which would cause
the river to dwindle. Bill said there is never a zero flow from the Chain of Lakes. He
said what flows into the Lakes flows out into the river. He said the low level of the
river in the summer is caused by low rainfall, not because of the McHenry dam.
John Mach of Cicero asked what the sanitary districts along the Fox River are
dumping into the river every day,because the Hoffman dam on the Des Plaines River
has a flow of 100 million gallons a day,and 50 %of it is sewage treatment effluence.
Bill said he didn't know the exact amount,but that there is a lot of effluence
contributed to the Fox River between McHenry and Yorkville dams.
Allan Jiranek said that when the dam was heightened, and the river levels rose,
property owners along the river were not compensated for the property they lost. He
said they were told they could fill in land. Bill did not answer question about who
would own reclaimed property if water levels fell,but later said the city would not
claim anyone else's property.
Asked how the DNR went from trying to make the dam safer to trying to clean up the
river, Steve replied that the way to make the dam safest is to remove it. Bill said the
Yorkville dam has a bad roll; it is one of the two worst dams on the Fox River. The
other is the Elgin dam. The Yorkville dam has very strong hydraulics. Most of the
drownings occur in July and August when the flow is low.
Greg Freeman noted that before 1976, when he said the state filled the river area
below the dam in, people couldn't walk up to the dam because it was too deep. Roger
Gilbert said he has fished the river for almost 50 years,walked it all. If people
weren't plain stupid,he said,they wouldn't walk into the dam. Fish are attracted to
the dam. Its not our fault,he said. Risk factors are everywhere. If the dam is taken
out,the water above it will be gone and it will be scummy by the islands.
Bill said they would look into that. Asked by Greg Johnson how the results of the
study will be released, he said they would hold another meeting in a month, send out
notices to people who had attended the Town Meeting. He said they would have
profiles that show things like the depth of the flow now. He said they have gauges in
the river now. They know what the rivers'flows are at it lowest levels. He said they
can use that information to plot what would happen to the river levels if the dam is
removed.
Chuck Roberts asked if there had been any study of bank restoration. Steve said in
Wisconsin within a year they had found that the banks seeded themselves. He said it
might be best to let the banks revegitate themselves unless one wanted to plant trees.
Tom Baumgartner asked if anyone had done a study of the economic impact on the
city of Yorkville. He said he could tell the DNR people were already in favor of
removing the dam. Bill said that isn't true.
Another resident said that during the 1970s the clams and snails disappeared,but during
the last 3 to 5 years he can now go out in the river and pick up snails. He said he thinks
we owe this to the Fox who clamped down on pollution. The river has come back
immensely,he said, and he would like to see the DNR work on alternatives to removing
the dam. He suggested they also build the islands back up by dredging.
Bill said the DNR gives a lot of weight to public opinion.
Shirley Johnson asked why the dams were put in in the first place. Bill said that in 1962,
there was a plan in place to make the river navigable between the Chain of Lakes and the
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Illinois River. Shirley said it now appears they don't want this area to be navigable; if the
dam is removed, she said, she could guarantee it wouldn't be navigable in July.
Jeff Spang said he can't believe that more aggressive monitoring of people at the dam
wouldn't solve the risk factor. He said he likes the pool above the dam.
Bill Johnson said he has lived in Yorkville for 40 years. He said if the dam is left in
place, eventually it will silt everything in. He said he is strongly in favor of the dam
being removed.
Mayor Prochaska said when the question was posed to the city if the dam should be
removed to improve the river,the council had no knowledge base with which to make a
decision,so officials asked the DNR to look at the question. He said personally unless
there was a strong reason to remove the dam,he would like to go with the alternative
solution of steps and a chute.
Alderman Callmer said he had looked at the Wisconsin plans and most of them seemed to
be about money. He asked if the idea of removing the Yorkville dam wasn't being driven
by a desire to save money. He said he hoped cost would not be the deciding factor.
The mayor said the dam has been in place since 1845 and he knows that habitats have
developed because of the dam and he would like to have those studied too.
Allen Jiranek asked who actually controls the river. Bill said the state owns the bed of
the river and the dam.
Greg Johnson asked if it would be possible to have the four-step dam with a sluice gate.
Bill said it is possible,but the sluice area would have to be right behind the dam.
Katie Maurer asked if recreation uses were important,and if one type was more
important than another. Bill said even watching birds is recreation. He said in most
cases, if a dam is removed, recreation use increases because access to the river is easier.
Asked what the cost of removal is,Bill said it is 3 to 4 times less that the cost of
rebuilding or repairing a dam.
Chief Graf said this is a DNR decision,a policy decision. He said the dam causes a high
risk for firemen going to rescue. He said the only thing we are requesting is for the DNR
to finish its study. He said residents should let the DNR know that they want to keep the
dam. He said the DNR needs to look at the economic impact,the historical value of the
dam. Every place you go, its part of Yorkville,the chief said. Asked to explain the city's
jurisdiction, Chief Graf said the police and firemen are allowed to go into the water with
the DNR's permission. He said the city can't put up signs prohibiting fishing; it can't stop
people from using the river. That has to come from the DNR. He said generation on top
of generation of fishermen have come to Yorkville to fish.
Mayor Prochaska said the city residents have done a lot of work on their riverfront.
Fishing is important. What effect would the dam removal have? Would all the fishermen
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• just go up to Montgomery's dam and fish? Steve said fishing would improve if the dam
is removed. The pool is not good for walleye,just carp. Asked if dredging would get
some of the toxins and crud out of the river,Bill said they are not sure if there are any
pollutants in the river. Steve said that a 1996 survey done in Oswego showed little
contaminants.
Alderman Spears asked for the dates of the dam removals and if the study has been long
enough to show any environmental impact in Wisconsin. Steve said that between 1988
and 1994 20 dams were slated for removal.
Greg Freeman said that fishermen congregate at dams so fish studies as far as economics
go don't mean squat.
Dwight Varner asked that those present vote to see who wants to keep the dam. The
results were 37 in favor of keeping the dam, 3 in favor of making a decision after the
DNR survey results are in, 1 in favor of removing the dam.
Alderman Sowinski said it is obvious there is major support for keeping the dam.
Tom Baumgartner asked if money is already appropriated to put in the four-step
improvement;Bill said no. Area legislators are the ones who would appropriate funds.
He said residents would have to write to their representatives.
Asked if the dam needed repair, Bill said no. It was built in 1961 and would be okay
until about 2011. Steve said so far there has been no dam removed in Illinois,but there is
one slated for this summer on Waubonsee Creek.
Alderman Kot said obviously there is a safety problem at the dam. He said when he
heard of the four-step suggestion,he thought that was the way to go. If we can reduce the
risk and keep the dam, he said,that is the way to go.
Alderman Sticka said he thinks it is premature to make up one's mind before the study is
done. Alderman Spears said she thought the city should wait for the study. Alderman
Burd said personally she likes to see the river flowing over the dam; she said how can
they evaluate the therapeutic benefits of people sitting in the park, watching the river
flow over the dam?
Mayor Prochaska asked the DNR to look at other alternatives to removing the dam. He
said we want to maintain what we have here. He said we need to retain this bit of our
history if we can. He said the Yorkville dam is certainly a destination for many people.
He said if it is to be removed,he would have to be shown a substantial increase in the
quality of the river because the dam means a lot to Yorkville.
2.) After a five-minute break,the mayor reconvened the meeting to discuss the widening
of Route 47 through downtown Yorkville. He said that last year he saw the plan
presented by IDOT at St. Pat's. It called for raising the speed limit through town.
Obviously the plan had things that would not work,he said,but Yorkville is facing
traffic jams and backups. Something needs to be done. So the mayor went and
talked to IDOT. The St. Pat plan, he was told, was an engineer's ideal way of dealing
with things. The problem is,the mayor said, it is the only plan on the books. MOT
has abandoned doing anything about widening the road and weren't planning on
looking at it for maybe 20 years. He said there is funds in IDOT's budget for doing
an engineering study from Countryside Parkway to Route 71. He said as it now
stands no one wants to buy on Route 47 because they don't know what is going to
happen to the road. A bridge over Eldamain Rd is 20 years away,the mayor said, and
15 years ago the city asked that the bridge in Yorkville be widened to four lanes.
With the traffic we have in Yorkville right now, waiting 15 to 20 years isn't going to
cut it,he said. He said possibly we could phase the stoplights. He said IDOT is
willing to look at other ideas, such as pinching the right-of-way and not making any
cul-de-sacs. He said they do want to have a right-in only and a right-out only at
Hydraulic,but they would remove as few buildings as possible. The retaining wall-
from Van Emmon north would have to be removed because it extends out,but they
are willing to bring their plans to a meeting with Yorkville residents and get imput.
The mayor said he would rather see a plan put together that is amenable to the people
of Yorkville than leave the plan now in existance on the shelf to be dusted off later
and used.
Mike Brabo asked if there is a current study that shows the area's growth. The mayor
said they are looking at a bypass,improving Rt. 47 and 34 and they are looking at
increased traffic and how it affects the whole area. Mike said in Europe the only
solution is a bypass; they don't tear down old buildings. The mayor said we need to
remember that we asked for the four-lane bridge and there is room for four lanes in
the downtown, but we don't have to have an expressway going through the
downtown. He said he didn't know if they have any plans to remove sidewalks.
Rose Kahle said when the Orchard bridge goes through, it will alleviate some of the
traffic. The mayor said we need to make sure that there is a traffic flow through
Yorkville. We don't want people going instead to business areas in Oswego and
Plano.
Mike suggested we have a designated truck route that would be a thoroughfare
between I-88 and I-80.
Rose asked if the city wasn't trying to improve buildings. The mayor said there is a
fagade improvement program being worked on, and parking lots being added. He
said he asked MOT if they would help Yorkville find other parking. They said they
would help. The mayor said it would be 5 to 7 years before any construction is done,
so its down the road. We have time to look at some of the issues. Rose asked if
anyone had ever suggested three-story garages for parking. The mayor said it could
be looked into.
Jim Ward suggested having three lanes of traffic,two going in one direction and one
in the other, and they could switch depending on the time of day. The mayor said we
would have to see if we have that specific a traffic flow.
Alderman Callmer said we now at least are having a positive dialogue with IDOT, so
now at least Yorkville will have some imput in what will happen. The mayor pointed
out that right now we are the only community in Kendall Co. on Rt. 47.
Denny Porter said its obvious the growth is going to Eldamain Rd and that it would
benefit both Yorkville and Plano if a bypass goes through on that road.
Rose said she would hate to see the retaining wall removed.
The consensus was that the city would try to preserve as much as it could.
Mayor Prochaska adjourned the meeting.
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