Plan Commission Minutes 1988 01-20-88 , t
MINUTES OF THE PLAN COMMISSION OF THE UNITED CITY OF THE VILLAGE OF YORKVILLE,
KENDALL COUNTY, ILLINOIS, HELD AT CITY HALL ON JANUARY 201 1988, FOLLOWING THE
PUBLIC HEARING.
After the Public Hearing was held, the regular meeting of the Plan Commission
opened with the following members in attendance:
Chairman Harold Feltz, George Stewart, Mary Kay Price, Larry Bretthauer,
Don Schoenfielder and Dave Greiter. Absent members included Clarence Holdiman,
Don Ament, Lawrence Langland, James Stafford, Rick Doetschman, and Kevin Collman.
Others in attendance included Aldermen Bill Radke, Gary Bown, and Jim Hayden;
City Planner James Clarage, Attorneys Jim Olson and Tom Cross. (Mayor Davidson
and City Attorney Dan Kramer joined the meeting later in the evening.) Citizens
present for the meeting included Dale Woodworth, Jack Purcell, Roy Deane, Frank
Taus, and others as listed on the sign-in sheet. After the approval of the
minutes of the previous meeting, the first item on the agenda was presented.
PC88-1 - Petition to Rezone R-1 to R-2, 2 lots of approximately 4 acres at the
end of E. Fox St. by ERA Harvey Real Estate.
Chairman Feltz stated that the main concerns as expressed during the hearing
included water run off, building setbacks to match existing homes, and the variance
on lot #1. Jim Olson agreed to amend the petition to include the variance.
Jim Clarage questioned the 1/8 mile dead end situation on Fox St. He stated
that the Plan Commission did not like the placement of one or two houses at the
end of dead end streets reason being the creation of problems with emergency
vehicles. Fox St. is now incomplete with no adequate cul-de-sac or turnaround
or extension. Previous options discussed included looping Fox St. around to
E. Washington; the original owner chase to divide into 4-5 acre,- tracts instead of
putting in required improvements at that time. It is his opinion that the present
porposal is likewise one sided and that in situations like this the developers
have to decide to meet the city half-way in working out suitable solutions.
Mayor Davidson questioned the driveway set-up; it should be an extension of
the street and provide a turn around. He likewise emphasized conforming to
guidelines in thh best interest of the city. Engineering plans for water run off
also need to be provided. Jim Olson added that is a 604 frontage on Fox St. and
that 25' would be used for driveway; Davidson responded with the fact that the
street needs to be brought up to city specs. In response to Dave Greiter's
question about storm sewers, Davidson said curbs would handle the situation. At
this time, Chairman Feltz suggested that the Plan Commission might need to review
the proposal at a future date.
George Stewart made the motion that the petition be tabled and that the
petitioners come back with information as to the turn around, utility easement,
storm sewer run off, and the 30' easement setback for water. It was seconded by
Larry 'Bretthauer.
Jim Olson added the fact that they really needed to get it solved at this
meeting due to property closing transaction. If the developer would agree to
January 20 Minutes - Page 2
comply with the conditions as requested by the Plan Commission, he asked if it
would be possible to get the petition approved right away. Mr. Clarage suggested
that it could be stated in the minutes that the owner would agree to clarify his
previous submission to include the agreement to put the turnaround iti-with the
required easement subject to city approval. Jim Olson stated that he was indeed
authorized to make such an agreement on behalf of the owner.
After further discussion and in view of the new agreement, George Stewart
retracted the motion to table and Larry Bretthauer retracted the second. It was
clarified that the only thing being given tonight would be the variance to lot #1.
All other questions would come back to the Plan Commission again. ( the variance
would allow the building of one house and no provision for future subdividing)
The motion was then made to grant a variance for lot #1 and let the building
go on as R-1 and that the petitioners would come back for the subdivision and
how the they would handle the turn around, the setbacks, easements, etc. (George
Stewart) . The motion was seconded by Larry Bretthauer.
Roll call vote carried the motion as follows:
Feltz - yes Stewart - yes Price - yes Bretthauer - yes Greiter - yes
Schoenfielder - yes.
PC88-2 - Petition to Annex & Zone Kendall County A-1 to Yorkville R-2, 19 lots
on Quinsey Rd. by Barry Niles.
Jim Olson presented the petition. Chairman Feltz referenced the concerns
about storm water brought up at the Public Hearing. Jim Clarage stated that the
storm water retention on site should be requested on this and other projects
similar to it. As to rezoning he suggested the developer consider the relation
of small lots to larger lots with attention to existing lots and transition of
same. Mayor Davidson stated that it appeared that the lot size did conform to
ci-t�=ordinance and the Commission would have to abide by it.
Mr. Niles expressed the opinion that the transition was good between Woodworth,
the proposed development, and Wackerlin. The proposed lots have a minimum frontage
of 801 . The control ordinance regarding subdivisions would be met in entirety.
Dave Greiter questioned lot size and Jim Olson verified that even smaller
lots were more than 12,000 sq. ft. In response to his questions on run off and
layout, Davidson affirmed that the issue now was zoning with all other concerns
to be discussed when it comes back for final approval.
Schoenfielder made the motion to approve the petition to annex and rezone
from Kendall County A-1 to R-2 the 19 lots submitted by Barry Niles. The second
was by George Stewart. The motion carried by roll call vote as follows:
Price - yes Bretthauer - yes Greiter - yes Schoenfielder - yes Feltz - yes
Stewart - yes
January 20 Minutes - Page 3
PC88-3 - Continued from December 16, 1987 Plan Commission meeting as item
PC87-56 - E. Main & McHugh Rd. by Countryside Center, Inc. (R. Deane)
Tom Cross asked that the second preliminary plat as submitted at this
meeting be included since it was somewhat different than the one from the packet
mailed to the Commission members.
Mr. Clarage made reference to the Sept. 16 meeting at which the Plan
Commission took no affirmative action. His main concerns are as follows:
1. the 33' right-of-way for the street.
2. Quinsey Rd. to go through; study to delete the cul-de-sac & rework road
system; In his opinion, if Quinsey is not developed now, it would not
likely be constructed in the future.
3. dome time ago a much larger parcel was originally brought to the Plan
Commission. Recommendations for the total overall parcel were
apparently not heeded. Now this smaller parcel is before the Commission
and it appears no thought has been given to previous recommendations
this time either.
4. It further appears that the final engineering was done on the plan as
submitted originally with no changes made.
Tom Cross then referred to the 33' on the north allowed on the plat as
easement for future roadway to be put in. The question is why should the present
developer put this road in; there is not enough space with this proposal to
construct the road.
Mr. Purcell stated that they have provided one-half of the roadway and that
the future developer (whether themselves or someone else) should be responsible
for the expense of the street when put in. It is his opinion that both owners
provide easement -- the developer to the north pays. He further stated that
Main & McHugh, for example, do not comply to subdivision control ordinances and
he asked if he as the developer had to pay for the required improvements, why
should the same situation exist with the Quinsey problem.
Mr. Clarage stated that as the developer with a piece of land with property
designated as a through street, he is required to put in the road or put up a
bond with the bank for later development.
Mr. Purcell's argument is that they as developers are co-operating with
city fully and that the city planner is being negative. Mr. Clarage maintains
that the developer is responsible for improvements on any roadway that he is
subdividing lots off of. The developers agree on this requirement but not on
the Quinsey issue. Mr. Clarage further questions the fact that the developers
only purchased to the center line of Quinsey -- why not pick up the additional
33' now. The present situation is only piecemeal and is likely to cause problems
in the future. The planning issue relates to the construction of the road -- on
Sept. 16 the sketch plan was not approved and the request now is to approve the
same plan with no reflection on the previous concerns.
January 20 Minutes - Page 4
Chairman Feltz indicated that the public had expressed concerns over
putting the roadway through during the hearings held. Mr. Cross added that
there was no dispute over the fact that this needed to be done, but over who
would be responsible for the expense involved in the construction.
At this point, Mr. Deane asked if indeed the next piece of property could
be purchased and the owner could then build two houses on that property without
coming to the Plan Commission. Mr. Clarage confirmed that fact and added that
this was part of the reason for related planning questions now.
Mayor Davidson entered the discussion and offered the suggestion that the
33' be dedicated and the city be given a Letter of Credit for the dollar amount
necessary to develop that side of the street at a later date. Mr. Clarage
agreed that this type of arrangement would protect the city. Dan Kramer added
that the Letter of Credit would have a ten year maximum for collection.
During further discussion, it was brought out that although the agenda was
set up for zoning request only, the petitioners were seeking both zoning and
plat approval at the present meeting. Chairman Feltz stated that more definition
was needed on all issues, one being the storm water situation. Mayor Davidson
said that this was being studied by the City and that they have worked out an
agreement not yet approved by the Council.
Mr. Clarage then questioned the approval of a preliminary plat with the
incorrect road concept. Dan Kramer stated that a 33' dedication with the Letter
of Credit provision subject to engineering review would be acceptable. Since
no variances were asked for they would automatically be bound by subdivision
controls such as streets, curbs, sidewalks, storm sewers, sanitary sewer, water,
land cash and impact fees.
The other concern is the possible land lock of the property to the west.
(5-acre parcel) Members of the Plan Commission felt that the request for the
overall concept was ignored. Discussion followed as to whether the Commission
would be adhering to the final plan if this petition were approved without
regard to all concerns. (Quinsey easement, storm water, and landlock possibility.)
At this point, Mr. Purcell again made reference to the fact that as developers
they are doing everything possible to co-operate with the city on this project
to make it work and are being criticized by the city planner for it. After he
walked out on the meeting, Chairman Feltz asked Tom Cross for his opinion on what
should be done at this point.
Mayor Davidson commented on the difficulty of the situation due to the way
the parcel was originally split up; he feels that the Commission either should
at this point accept or reject the petition and end the matter. Tom Cross added
that his understanding of the problem included only two points of conflict --
Quinsey Rd. and the storm water -- both of which are being handled. Chairman
Feltz added that there is a misunderstanding between the Commission and the
developers as to the intention of the Commission.
3anuary 20 Minutes - Page 5
After lengthy discussion on the original parcel and how it was split, the
options that the present developers may have on the land to north and west, the
street development situation, the land lock problem - the following motion was
made by George Stewart:
To recommend to the City Council that the property be rezoned from R-1
to R-2 and that the Preliminary Plat be accepted contingent upon
the following conditions:
Engineering review approval.
Posting of a Letter of Credit in an amount recommended by
city engineers which would cover the full cost of the
south half of that portion of roadway to be installed by the
developer or the city (ending at the westerly end of Lot #7) .
The dedication of Quinsey be shown as "hereby dedicated".
The city resolve the problem of getting storm water from
Main St. to the river.
The second to the motion was made by Mary K. Price and was carried by a roll call
vote with results as follows:
Bretthauer - yes Greiter - yes Schoenfielder - yes Feltz - yes
Stewart - yes Price - yes
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
Jim Clarage submitted the final draft of the Comprehensive Plan. The
members of the Plan Commission are to review along with J.T. Johnson and the
City Council for accuracy. After any adjustments are made, the Comprehensive
Plan will then be submitted for the February meeting for acceptance. (A public
hearing to be conducted previous to that meeting.)
The plan was explained according to the following areas: Low density
residential, medium density residential, planned light industrial, office park,
retail commercial, open space area, school & park area, industrial park area,
heavier commercial areas, transition areas.
The motion and second to approve the Comprehensive Plan with respective
changes was carried by voice vote.
LAND CASH ORDINANCE AMENDMENT
Dan Kramer advised the Plan Commission that the School District is requesting
to be able to use the land cash contribution for other than site acquisition. The
ordinance would allow them to use the contribution for buildings, site acquisitions,
site improvements, or any capital asset purchase with expected useful life of
longer than three years. It would not include salaries or other current operating
expenses -- only permanent type improvements.
January 20 Minutes - Page 6
The motion to recommend to the City Council that they approve the amended
ordinance on the land cash contribution was made by Larry Bretthauer; the second
was by Don Schoenfielder. The motion passed with a unanimous voice vote.
AMENDMENT TO ORDINANCE GOVERNING CLASS RR-2 CLASSIFICATION & WATER/SEWER SUPPLY
Dan Kramer advised that the amendment request was drafted in response to
a request from Mayor Davidson. The ordinance presently states that if the owner
has 20,000 sq.ft. and has either central water supply or central sewer supply,
he is entitled to have the other service supplied privately. The Mayor would
like to eliminate this on R-2 lots and make it a minimum of one acre before one
could ask for a well or septic within city boundaries and then only if it was
done by a conditional use (standards on what constitutes conditional use to be
followed) . The reasonable distance for sewer line has been 200' in the past.
The change would not affect existing lots. Mayor Davidson stated that this
ordinance would give the city the option to exercise guidelines. Also in the
amendment would be the RR-1 classification lot (2-1/2 acres) ; this would be
lowered to one acre. Non-residential uses -- R-1 can be larger (churches, etc.)
George Stewart made the motion to recommend to the Council that the
ordinance be accepted with the change of the footage (no sewer or water lines
to extend within 2501) and the rest as submitted by Dan Kramer. The second
was made by Mary K. Price. The motion carried by unanimous voice vote
ENGINEERING REVIEW
Dan Kramer questioned having an ordinance on file regarding planning or
engineering review charges; the fees should be paid by petitioners.
It was so moved by Mary Kay Price and seconded by George Stewart that the
city have an ordinance if not already on file to pass on the costs of the city to
review both engineering and planning of subdivisions to the petitioners. The
motion carried by unanimous voice vote.
The January meeting of the Plan Commission adjourned at 10:30 p.m.
A?t
C-2�'�� �"' -�'-�-
oanne M. Ellertson
Recording Secretary
MINUTES OF THE PUBLIC HEARING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION OF THE
UNITED CITY OF THE VILLAGE OF YORKVILLE, KENDALL COUNTY,
ILLINOIS, HELD AT CITY HALL ON JANUARY 20, 1988, AT 7:00 P.M.
The regular meeting of the Plan Commission was recessed to conduct the Public
Hearing scheduled. In attendance were plan Commission members as follows:
Chairman Harold Feltz, George Stewart, Mary Kay Price, Larry Bretthauer,
Don Schoenfielder, and Dave Greiter.
Also present were Aldermen Bill Radke, Gary Bown, and Jim Hayden; City Planner
James Clarage, Attorneys Jim Olson and Tom Cross. (Mayor Davidson and City
Attorney Dan Kramer joined the meeting later in the evening.) Citizens present
included Dale Woodworth, Jack Purcell, Roy Deane, Frank Taus, and others as
listed on the sign-in sheet. After the swearing in of interested parties, the
Public Hearings were conducted.
PC88-1 - Petition to Rezone R-1 to R-2, 2 lots of approximately 4 acres
at the end of E. Fox St. by ERA Harvey Real Estate.
Jim Olson present opening facts relative to the petition; the petitioners
wish to keep the southerly part (2� acres) R-1 and the northern part to be
rezoned to R-2 (for one house) ; total acres amount to 1.5 ,for this portion.
There would be a shared driveway provision with turn around easement.
Questions and discussion continued on the following issues:
1. steepness of the land grade
2. lot size and driveway set-up
3. whether or not the 1.5 acres could be split to two lots as a result
of change of zoning.
4. water run off problems
5. lift station and upkeep of such
6. building set backs to comply with existing homes (Clarage recommending
to align with existing homes)
7. extension of Fox St.
8. suggestion that the requests and proposals be in writing
It was later interjected that the people should be made aware that the property
would be developed by a contractor for the purpose of selling and not for
personal use of the petitioner.
Chairman Feltz suggested that the developer and interested neighbors meet
outside the meeting room and discuss further; input from such discussion could
then be introduced during the regular meeting session.
PC88-2 - Petition to Annex & Zone Kendall County A-1 to Yorkville R-2,
19 lots on Quinsey Rd. by Barry Niles.
♦-
PUBLIC HEARING - PAGE 2
Jim Olson presented the petition involving property north of proposed
Woodworth First Edition and east of Wackerlin subdivision. He stated that no
variances would be asked for -- development would include sewer, water, curbs,
gutters. Concerning storm water, the low area rear of lot #7 would be used
as detention area.
The owner of lot #31 questioned water at rear of his lot -- water runs
toward Quinsey and downward; Dale Woodworth stated that the water from the
Wackerlin subdivision totally runs onto Quinsey. Mayor Davidson explained
that the water should be held in detention and let off by engineering design
to go across Quinsey. . He emphasized that the Council and the engineers are
well aware of the water problem and its relation to development expected over
the next five years.
Regarding sanitary sewer, Jim Olson said the plan is to go down the south
side of Quinsey to a lift station which would then take it to Bruell St. to
existing sewer.
Barry Niles added comments that the s6il consistency will work to the
advantage where storm water is concerned. He stated that the lot size would
average 20,000 sq. ft. and that he intends to live in-the proposed development.
In answer to questions regarding building restrictions, he stated that a ranch
would be 1600 sq. ft. and a minimum of approximately 1800 sq. ft. for a
two story.
It was again brought up about the water situation becoming dangerous --
owner of lot #31 claiming as much as four feet of water at times in the ditch
along his property.
PC88-3 - Petition to Rezone R-1 to R=2, 25 lots at Northwest corner of E. Main
& McHugh Rd. by Countryside Center, Inc. (R. Deane)
Tom Cross distributed new preliminary plat drawings and copies of the
proposed covenants covering 11.37 acres of land divided into 25 lots; he explained
provisions of sanitary sewer (Sanders Ct. down to E. Main to hook up with existing
system; lots along McHugh to go to the NW corner of the intersection and on to
the lift station) ; also presented were points relative to storm water, fire
hydrant placement, location of intersections, and street lights.
Reference was made to the north end of the property west of Quinsey to be
reserved for a future street; plans to develop such street are not=-included at
this.,time. Jim Olson added that the development would include getting the storm
water to E. Main St. and the city would handle getting it to the river.
Mayor Davidson questioned city upkeep of the sewer line and suggested the
following: a 25' easement at the back of affected lots (17 through 25 and also
9 through 15 & 18) . He also questioned the proposed easement of the roadway --
this should be the expense of the developers. In response to questions on the
traffic-.problem at Quinsey/McHugh intersection, Davidson stated that the city
has applied for a grant to upgrade all traffic signs, etc. , with the work to
ksegin in September.
PUBLIC HEARING - PAGE 3
Chairman Feltz referred to items recommended by the Plan Commission when the
proposal was discussed the last time:
1. extension of Spring St. through to Quinsey
2. Public Hearing on the Woodworth Property -- people indicated at
that time they wanted'--to see the road go through and exit at Rt. 47
and not at the top of the hill on Main St.
3. concern about property to the west of the proposed development
becoming land locked.
He stated the present layout appeared not to reflect any changes from the first
ont presented.
Discussion was directed toward restrictions of home size as a part of the
covenants and also the question of widening the roads and the required upkeep.
Mayor Davidson assured that the city and the developer would have to work on
solving this type of problem.
At this point the Public Hearing was closed and the regular meeting of
the Plan Commission was resumed.
oanne M. Ellertson
Recording Secretary
PUBLIC HEARING -- REGISTRATION SHEET
IF YOU ARE HERE TO SPEAK AT THE PUBLIC HEARING OR ARE IN ATTENDANCE AS
AN OBSERVER, PLEASE INDICATE YOUR NAME & ADDRESS BELOW:
NAME ADDRESS
>3 2 6:�2 ��