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Plan Commission Minutes 1987 01-27-87 MINUTES OF THE PLAN COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF YORKVILLE HELD AT CITY HALL ON JANUARY 27 , 1987 AT 7 : 00 PM ---- -- ---- ---- -- ------- --- ---- -- ---- -- Harold Feltz called the meeting to order. Roll was called with the following members in attendance: Mr. Feltz, Mrs. Price, Mr. Beaudry, and Mr. Holdiman. A majority of a quorum was present. Also present at the meeting were Jim Clarage, Robert Davidson, Jim Hayden, Larry Jennings, Dennis Fahrlander, Larry Small, Mike Thanepohn, Attorney Tom Grant, George Bell, Mr. & Mrs. Peterson, Rose King, Ken Doty, Tom Lindblom, Ray Collins, Kathy Farren, Glen Gabel, Garry Gabel, Marge Vollman, Rhea E. Batka, Richard Thidel, Don Haman, Michael Hitzeman, and Robert Bazan. Harold Feltz acted as chairman in the absence of Jerry Groner. Mr. Feltz stated that that this is not a public hearing, but the commission would be interested in hearing input from the visitors. He asked everyone present to indicate their names and what their interest is in tonight's meeting. Mr. Feltz read the agenda to the audience . Minutes Chairman Feltz inquired as to whether there were any additions or corrections to the December 23 , 1986 minutes . The minutes were approved as written. PC87-1 - Huber/Henne Subdivision (referred from 12/23/86 meeting PC86_13) ----------- ----------- --------- ---- -------- ------ Chairman Feltz stated that the first item on the agenda is the Huber/Henne Subdivision. Attorney Grant was present in behalf of the petitioners. He stated that the matter is now going before the Zoning Board of Appeals for a variance on sidewalks. He suggested that the commission refer the minutes to the City Council with the request that they pay special attention to the Plan Commission's requests. The petitioners will have to meet with the City's engineer , etc.. Mayor Davidson inquired as to whether they will be requesting for a variance on curbing. Attorney Grant stated that they do not own the street. If they put in curbs, they will end up a with tremendous swail. He spoke with the city attorney about requirements for improving the street. They do not own the street. The sidewalks are on their property, so they are requesting a variance . Mayor Davidson was in question as to what would happen with the water running down onto the street . Attorney Grant stated that he and Dan Kramer discussed street improvements, which would not be their duty. The curbs and gutters will be considered, if they are necessary for water retention. It is an engineering question at this point. The sidewalks they are requesting a variance from, and the street lighting would not be their duty. Mayor Davidson stated that there is no way to hold the sidewalk on their side of the street . He felt that something could possibly be worked out . 1/27/87 - p 2 Attorney Grant stated that there is already a recommendation from the commission to the City Council that they pay close attention to whether or not curbing should go in. He is recommending tonight that the recommendation be passed onto the council for further review. They will go to the Zoning Board of Appeals on February 9, 1987 at 7:00 pm for a variance on sidewalks. The final will come back to the Plan Commission. Mr. Clarage requested that the commission receive a copy of the Zoning Board minutes . MR. BEAUDRY MADE A MOTION TO REFER THE HUBER/HENNE SUBDIVISION TO THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS. MRS. PRICE SECONDED THE MOTION. A ROLL CALL VOTE WAS TAKEN: Beaudry - yes Holdiman - yes Feltz - yes Price - yes The motion carried. PC87-2 - Rick Johnson Zoning _ Kendall County _ Rt . 71 (referred from 12/23/86 meeting _ PC86_16) -- -- -- ------ ---- -- Attorney Grant represented the petitioners. He stated that at the last meeting the commission indicated that they would have no objection to the rezoning to residential provided that there is evidence that the surrounding property owners would rezone their property to residential, and that the public street be put in with access onto the other properties, and to provide some surface water detention. These matters were worked out. The original letters from the Halbesmas and Doetchmans have been filed with Dan Kramer along with the maps. The petition has been approved by the County Board. Mr. Feltz stated that this will meet with the long term plan for the area. The industry would be kept to the northwest area. The letters from the surrounding property owners were received as requested by the Plan Commission, so the members had no objection. PC87-3 - Kendall oning County Z from B-3 & A-1 to M-3 for proposed sand & ------- ----- ----- ---- --- grave_ mining district _ Donald-&-Ca--rol-- Haman--- --- - Rt . 34 ---- - ----- -------- ------ - ----- ----- - --- -- Chairman Feltz stated that the next item on the agenda is a petition from Don and Carol Haman to rezone from B-3 and A-1 to M-1 for a gravel pit on Rt . 34 . Attorney Joe Barnett represented the petitioners. He stated that this is the first presentation made on the project. They will try to answer any questions. The commission was given the survey of the area. There is 256 acres on the site with 1 1/4 mile frontage on Rt. 34. Mr. and Mrs. Haman are Kendall County residents. They operate a gravel pit on Rt. 71 in Oswego. This will be a sand pit rather than a gravel operation. Mr. Haman stated that they purchased the farm 10 years ago. One of the conditions prior to purchasing it was that they soil tested it to see if it was feasible for sand and gravel under it. The tests are on the survey. The location of the borings are on the survey also. There are not any large rocks, so the operation will not require brushing. It will require a sifting or screening process. They found out that the water table is 12 to 15 ft. below the surface. They plan on removing the sand down to about 2 1/2 ft. from the water table, and then they will take it out with a drag line. The 1/27/87 - p 3 upper level will be done with wheel loaders. The operation will be damp, so there will not be very much dust. They will not be crushing rocks, because it is. only sand. You need sand for any economical development. He will answer any questions. Mr. Feltz pointed out the area in question on the wall map. He stated that the property is contiguous , at a point , to the city. It is the Diehl farm. There was question as to how much of the 250 acres they proposed to mine. Mr. Haman stated they will leave the boundary of the property with the shoreline around the perimeter of the property, approximately 150 to 200 feet around the property. There was question as to how deep they would go. Mr. Haman stated that the soil tests indicate that they have approximately 25 ft. of sand on the property, 12 ft. above the water table, and 13 to 15 ft. below the water table . They will go to a depth down to about 25 ft . . There was question as to how many piles there would be. Mr. Haman stated that they will have stock piles as to what they can sell. There would probably be 5 , 000 tons of inventory which would be 200 some odd loads. This would be 20 ft . high. It would be 10 ft . above the existing ground level . It would be about 2 ft . from the water table. There was question as to how long the business would be there. Mr. Haman stated that economics dictate the material business. They would anticipte 5 to 8 acres per year, so it could be a possible 30 to 35 year project. There was question as to how many trucks there will be a year. Mr. Haman stated that there will be 60 to 80 trucks per day. Mr. Feltz questioned as to whether he had a plan as to how the land will be developed and how they will insure it. Mr. Haman stated that there are no quidelines to follow. Mr . Feltz inquired as to whether there are any EPA permits or environment studies, etc. , that have to be met. Mr. Haman stated that there is none. Mr. Peterson stated that the State passed a new law that puts the authority in the local and county goverments' hands to govern this type of process. Mr. Feltz inquired as to whether they would be annexing into the City. Mr. Haman stated that they had discussed the possiblity. Mr. Clarage stated that a plan would be needed to see where the office is going to be , etc.. Mr. Haman stated that they are contemplating that the offices would be where the farm building is . This is 1/4 mile from the curb. Mr. Haman stated that the majority of trucks will be going east on Rt. 34 according to studies . There is not that much business locally. Mr. Feltz stated that special concern should be given to mining because it can not be changed. Mining is a long term item. Yorkville would like to keep a neat appearance with its entrance into the city. 1/27/87 - p 4 Robert 'Davidson stated that he has spoke to Mr. Haman. Mr. Davidson felt that the best use of the land should be addressed. He felt that with the informa- tion given that a decision could not be made. A traffic study should be done by I.D.O.T. of what should be done if it is approved, so that we know what impact there will be on the community. The commission will need better draw- ings. We need something in writing or a quarantee on the piles of sand and erosion and what will happen to the farmland around the area with it blowing. We need to know how many entrances there will be. He did not feel that they could pump the water or touch the water table because too many people would be affected by it. The commission would need to know what the area is going to look like in 10, 20, or 30 years from now. The commission needs a final layout or a restoration plan. They need to know the years of completion. Mayor Davidson stated that he will be against it if it is not in the city. He felt that it should be worked out through the city and not the county. We need to know the safety factor, if the water is a certain depth, a fence will be needed, etc.. What guarantees will we have in the future if Mr. Haman sells the property or goes broke and the City is left with a hole in the ground. He felt at this point it cannot be rezoned until we see more facts. Mr. Peterson informed that the state has some good guidelines to follow con- cerning these matters. Mr. Davidson would like to have the guidelines here. Mr. Feltz reported that state has passed it to the local government. Mr. Haman stated that in DuPage County, many of the park districts, etc. are trying to get the abandoned gravel pits because of the open space. Open space becomes very valuable. Many nice office buildings have been built across from the pits . Mr. Feltz stated that he would like to know what will be done with the property ahead of time. Some of the gravel pits are beneficial . and some are not. The commission needs to protect the people of Kendall County. Mr. Haman stated that they will not be destroying the land. He felt that the land would still be valuable after its natural resources are gone. Mr. Davidson felt that we are a long way away from DuPage , so it will have to be a different type of program. He would not have a problem if it were farther away from the city, but it is in a major business area for Yorkville. Mr. Feltz thought that Mr. Haman should address some of the community's fears to benefit his business in the long run. Mrs. Peterson stated that the reason they live in Yorkville is because it is small , and they would like to see it kept that way. She is concerned with the traffic. There is slot of school traffic in the area by Bristol Ridge and Lynwood Subdivision. She felt that sand mining is not a need of the community. Mr. Haman stated that the gravel pit will not create anymore business for the community. Tom Lindblom stated that they own property on Tuma Road. He questioned as to what would happen to the water table, wells, in the area; what will be done about the erosion and blowing sand. They are concerned with the traffic. They have a nursery with approximately 80 children attending every other day. 1/27/87 - p 5 He did.not see how this could be deemed the best use for the land, when it will end up a hole in the ground. Mr. Peterson stated that the piece of property has never been a problem to the community as agriculture. No one has ever died on the property from traffic, etc.. Several people have died in abandoned gravel pits in the area: He is concerned with the traffic and unauthorized swimming, etc.. Mr. Feltz stated that we need an authority before questions can be answered regarding the water table and the effect of the wells in the area. Mr. Haman stated that the pond will be placed along the roadway in a berm and planted with grass and trees, and the amount that wasn't needed for that purpose would probably be sold off for yards. Mr. Feltz stated that the commission needs to know these type of things. There was question as to whether Rt. 34 will be widened for ingress and egress of the trucks. Mr. Davidson stated that I.D.O.T. will determine how wide the road must be . There was question as to how the sewer lines would be connected to any future subdivisions to the east of the proposal. Mr. Feltz stated that we would have to look to our comprehensive plan. Mr. Davidson stated that if we were ever to get to that point, the city could require easements across the front of the property. Attorney Grant questioned what impact this property would have on the city sales tax if it were annexed. Mr . Haman stated that all private sales are 6.25%. They run about 60% private and 40% state, federal, etc., so 60% would be suject to sales tax. Attorney Grant questioned about the assesed value of property, and whether it stays the same for agriculture purposes, or was it increased, and if so, by how much. Mr. Haman stated that he did not have those figures with him. Mr. Clarage questioned as to whether this proposal is up for County Board approval. Mr. Haman stated that they will be before the County Plan Commission tomorrow night , and they are at the same stage as th-e city. Mr. Clarage stated that from a planning standpoint, it is what the best land use is, and if it is for this land use, how it can be best handled by the City. This piece of land has more than a mile of frontage on Rt. 34 which is quite an impact. It is greater in size than Countryside Subdivision. He questioned whether that amount of land could be attractive if the entire property is zoned M-3, which is the highest industrial type of use. Anything could be put in M-3 zoning. There is no special use for what the petitioner is asking for. They did state that they would have 250 ft. buffers, but in the petition they are requesting the entire property by M-3. They have a small piece of B-3 off to the west that goes from the center line, back 350 ft., they are asking that it be waived out and have the M-3 come up to the highway. Mr. Haman stated that one of the reasons for asking for the entire tract to be M-3 is that you cannot isolate the M-3 from the adjoining property owners by creating a buffer . • 1/27/87 - p 6 Mr. Clarge stated that we should know ahead of time what the petitioners are going to do, before they go into the county meetings , so we know whether to file legal objections or not . Mr. Davidson suggested that it be left B-2 with a special use, and come in with a P.U.D. for 20 years or so. Mr. Thanepohn stated that the land is a good location for business in the future, and a mining operation would jeopordize it by changing the whole lay of the land. They should consider the impact on all the contiguous land. Another continguous land owner may decide he wants M-1 also, which would be difficult to stop. Attorney Grant felt that the City, for protection, should file a formal objection. He felt that this would be the only way to control the situation and to work the City's ideas on the County Board. It is scheduled for committee this week, the zoning board in approximately 10 days, and then the county board on the second Tuesday in February. The County could approve it. Larry Jennings stated that at the last city council meeting the city attorney was instructed to draft a letter asking them to wait until the city has input . Mr. Davidson stated that it should be looked at positively. Mr. Hamen could zone it residential and business, which would add more traffic. He questioned what that kind of impact would have. Mr. Haman stated that there would be aproximately 1,000 homes, each with the average of 2 cars and 3 movements a day, which would be 3,000 movements , so there would be approximately 6,000 cars a day. The Mayor also stated that it would have an impact on the schools if it were homes. However, a subdivision could be more controlled. Mr. Feltz stated that it needs to come back with more definition before it can be debated. Mr. Haman did not have a problem with returning to the Plan Commission with more information. Mayor Davidson stated that we need to put in a formal objection to the County Board at this time. MR. BEAUDRY MADE A MOTION TO RECOMMEND THAT THIS PROPOSAL IS INCONSISTANT WITH THE CITY'S COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, AND THE M-3 (HEAVY INDUSTRIAL) MINING OPERATION OPENS THE DOOR TO OTHER M-3 USES; AND THEREFORE, SHOULD BE TABLED AND/OR NOT APPROVED AT THIS TIME, AND THE COUNTY SHOULD BE SO NOTIFIED, AND IF THE PETITIONER IS GOING TO PROCEED TO OBTAIN COUNTY M-3 ZONING, THE CITY SHOULD THEN FILE A FORMAL LEGAL OBJECTION. MR. HOLDIMAN SECONDED THE MOTION. A ROLL CALL VOTE WAS TAKEN. Beaudry - yes Feltz - yes Price - yes Holdiman - yes The motion carried. Mr. Bell stated that there have been incidents where you can attach special conditions to regular zoning . You cannot have it as a special use. Mayor Davidson stated that the M-3 zoning may be okay if we have more informa- tion. • 1/27/87 - p 7 PC87-4 - Kendall County Zoning - Gerritt Halbesma Trust - Rt . 71 , George Bell stated that besides being the County Zoning Officer, his wife is a Halbesma, so he will be presenting the petition to the City and Richard Huston, City Treasurer, will be presenting it to the County Board. The commission members did see the overall plan for the area. This is in connection with the Rick Johnson rezoning. They also contacted the Doetchman's, and between the three families came up with a uniform plan. Mr. Davidson felt that it fit in with the Johnson rezoning. He questioned what the overall plan is for the revenes (pond) on the property. Mr. Bell spoke to the soil conservationist, and his feeling was that a tile be put in the middle of the pond, and they run it out. It is not really a pond because it is enclosed on three sides and open on the east. They would then fill the top of it, so it would be suitable for yards. They would not build over it . There has been talk about making a pond out of it , but they haven' t considered it . If someone is interested, they would consider it . Mr. Clarage questioned as to whether there is already a curb cut for lot 1 where it comes out onto Rt. 47. Mr. Bell stated that there is already an existing house on lot 1 , and there is an existing driveway. Mr. Thanepohn inquired as to whether they are considering coming into the city within a period of time. He questioned as to whether the intent is to have private wells or a community well. Mr. Bell stated at this time they are proposing individual wells and septic . They would welcome city water if it developed to the south. Mr. Beaudry felt that the property was already covered when the Rick Johnson rezoning was discussed. Mr. Clarage felt that the letters from the surrounding owners should be on file with the city clerk. Attorney Grant stated that a copy has been filed with the City. MR. BEAUDRY MADE A MOTION TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE HALBESMA PETITION AS PRESENTED. IT IS IN CONCURRENCE WITH WHAT THE COMMISSION HAD REQUESTED PREVIOUSLY. MRS . PRICE SECONDED THE MOTION. A ROLL CALL VOTE WAS TAKEN. Feltz - yes Holdiman - yes Beaudry - yes Price - yes The motion carried. Seminar Mr. Clarage stated that there is a seminar on economical development sponsored by the State Economic Development. It will be in Springfield on February 25 and 26. It is between $55 and $65. He suggested that the city and commission get someone to go and report back the topics discussed. It would also be a good opportunity to make contacts . Meeting Dates Mr. Hayden stated that the city has been running into a scheduling problem with the County. He questioned as to whether the commission members would 1/27/87 - p 8 object to moving their meeting date. The members present did not have a -problem with this . Ad ournment Mr. Holdiman made a motion to adjourn. Mr. Beaudry seconded the motion. All members present were in favor. The meeting adjourned at 8 : 24 pm. - - �------- Debbie Robertson, Rec . Secretary r7 llo k'h� r � Ae,�U�,� � J-1 m Llaracie., lc-nnl5 Fahrlc-zr Qf