Plan Commission Minutes 1986 03-25-86 MINUTES OF THE PLAN COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF YORKVILLE
HELD AT CITY HALL ON MARCH 25, 1986 AT 7:00 PM
Chairman Groner called the regular meeting of the Plan Commission to order.
Roll was called with the following members in attendance: Mr. Holdiman, Mrs.
Price, Mr. Beaudry, Mr. Ament, Mr. Groner, and Mr. Langland. A quorum was
established. See attached list for others that were in attendance. Mr.
Langland made a motion to approve the minutes of the February 25, 1986 Plan
Commission meeting. Mr. Holdiman seconded the motion. All members present
were in favor.
PC-86-3 - Petition to Rezone from R-1 to R-2, and subdivide 31 lots (approxi-
mately 11.556 acres) property by Willman & Groesch
Chairman Groner stated that the commission's order of business would be to
discuss the pre-application conference and the comments made at the public
hearing.
Mr. Clarage inquired as to whether the commission will be approving a pre-
liminary or final subdivision plat due to the drainage considerations that
would have to be resolved with the council. The zoning request would be the
main issue. If the zoning is granted, they will then proceed with the sub-
division process which includes the lot profiles, adjacent property consid-
erations, curbs, street lights, etc.. Attorney Wegner stated that they would
like a recommendation on the preliminary plat. They did not know whether the
drainage calculations were submitted. They are not asking for any variances.
Mr. Clarage stated that they did have a conference hearing with them two
months at which time the on and of site water retention was questioned, and
apparently, there is not going to be storm water retention. Chairman Groner
stated that the Mayor proposed that the city enlarge the pipe.
Mr. Langland did not feel that it was a very imaginative subdivision. He was
also concerned with what would happen to the lots in the corner because there
are no provisions for access. He also felt that the drainage was a problem.
Mr. Clarage stated that the property below would be a left over piece of
property. He stated that from the last meeting he understood that if this
track of land goes through, they will buy the other piece. He stated that
normally in a preliminary plat they like to request a total land plan for the
total parcel of record. He felt that they were starting in the middle.
Mr. Langland inquired as to what size sewer they will hook onto. Mr. Reger
stated that they will hook on Center St. which will be a 12in. Mr. Johnson
felt that this would carry it.
Mr. Clarage questioned as to whether on the two plats the size of the storm
sewer would be increased from the 18 in.. Mr. Langland stated that there is
an exhibit for a 36in. and 18in. sewer. He felt that it would have to be up
to the City. Mr. Clarage inquired as to whether we could approve it without
knowing which way the developer is going to go. The City should get their
engineer's input.
3/25/86 - p. 2
Mr: Clarage stated that they comply with the R-2 lot sizes and the roadway
size. The exhibit for cross section and preliminary plat would have to be any
additional city requirements because they are not asking for any waivers. On
the preliminary plat, they should start the road improvements back off the
right of way, and they may want them to take the curbing and flair it out to
tie the road into a radius and intersection going onto Liberty St. and McHugh.
Mr. Willman has indicated that he would do this, and also on the final, he
would provide for a catch basin on Liberty St. on the opposite side of the
road to pick up anything that could come off of it. Mr. Clarage stated that
they should improve on both sides of the corner lots because it may cost the
city to do it in the future.
Attorney Wegner stated that they will be filing a final plat with the City for
plats 1 and 2 and a final plat approval bond for everything that they are
doing, but they will only be putting in part of the improvements. Mr. Clarage
stated that the bonds and letter of credit must be executed in a certain
period of time, and that they will have to cover all the improvements.
Mr. Clarage stated that there is a quarter mile distance along the Spring St.
extention, and that there may have to be a cross street at 1/8 mile according
to the ordinance. According to the ordinance, the block length should not
exceed 1320 ft., and there is approximately 1500 ft. between Liberty and
McHugh. There is also a provision for pedestrian crosswalks. He suggested
that a cross street be put in around lot 15 for a north, south access. Some
of the lots may have to be combined for corner lots. This is required under
section 7.08.01 under the Subdivision Control Ordinance. The only way for the
area to the southwest to subdivide would be if a street came down from a lot.
An overall land plan of the area would make things clearer. Mr. Clarage
stated that a provision for a dedicated access should be provided for a 66 ft.
right of way on lot 15, 8, or 24 which would then open up the area to the
north and south.
Mr. Clarage stated that Quinsey St. is slated for a 33 ft. pavement width and
will be classified as a collector street. The developer will have to go from
25 ft. to 33 ft. for collector improvements.
Mrs. Price inquired as to whether the gulley they will be dumping the water
into will be big enough to handle all the water. The revene is by Gawne
Lane. Mr. Woodworth stated that if they dump the water into the revene, it
will make the lot at the bottom useless. Mr. Clarage felt that they should
have an easement to go through the property. Mr. Johnson stated that the
paperwork is being done.
Mr. Clarage felt that the following items should be considered for the sub-
division petition: the storm water, change the pavement width from 25 ft. to
33 ft., a cross street in the middle as stated by ordinance in section
7.08.01, a 66 ft. right of way should be provided, and as the other areas are
developed the cross street could go in.
Mr. Reger felt that the only logical place for the cross street would be at
lot 18 which would then make a 300 block. Mr. Clarage felt that a cul-de-sac
could be put in to pick up the other property. Mr. Reger did not feel that
there would be enough room for a cul-de-sac. Mr. Clarage stated that they
will not have room to put lots around the cul-de-sac, but there would be 200-
3/25/86 - 3
225 ft.. He suggested the commission let the developer's engineers decide
where the cross street will go subject to the commission's approval.
MR. LANGLAND MADE A MOTION TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL THAT:
1. THE ROADWAY ON SPRING STREET SHOULD BE 33 FT. SO THAT IT FITS WITH THE
INTERCEPTOR OF QUINSEY STREET.
2. IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE SUBDIVISION CONTROL ORDINANCE, A NORTH SOUTH
STREET SHOULD GO THROUGH THE CENTER OF THE PROPERTY, SO THAT IT WILL
SERVICE THE NORTH AND SOUTH PROPERTY.
3. A 36 IN. MAIN IS A NECESSITY AND THAT THE WATER SHOULD NOT BE DUMPED
ON THE OPEN GROUND OVER SOMEONE ELSES PROPERTY WITHOUT CLARIFICATION.
4. AND THEY RECOMMEND APPROVAL WITH THESE COMMENTS MADE TO THE CITY
COUNCIL.
MR. BEAUDRY SECONDED THE MOTION. A ROLL CALL VOTE WAS TAKEN.
AMENT - YES GRONER - YES BEAUDRY - YES
HOLDIMAN - YES LANGLAND - YES PRICE - YES
THE MOTION CARRIED.
Mr. Hayden stated the flow calculations have not been submitted. Mr. Clarage
stated that they can be submitted with the final plat.
Mr. Clarage stated that the rezoning should be subject to having the legal
descriptions attached for the 11.556 acres, and there should be a zoning
survey plat exhibit, so that there is an exact record of the borders for
updating the zoning map. Attorney Wegner stated that he would furnish this
information.
MR. BEAUDRY MADE A MOTION TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL TO GRANT THE ZONING
CHANGE FROM R-1 TO R-2. MRS. PRICE SECONDED THE MOTION. A ROLL CALL VOTE WAS
TAKEN.
GRONER - YES PRICE - YES HOLDIMAN - YES
BEAUDRY - YES AMENT - YES LANGLAND - YES
THE MOTION CARRIED.
Chairman Groner reminded those present that the Plan Commission can only make
recommendations to the City Council, and that the Council would make the final
decision. There was question as to whether the minutes would be made
available to the public and when. The recording secretary stated that they
would be available in approximately a week. Mr. Hayden stated that the
minutes would not be official until approved by the Plan Commission at their
next meeting.
There was question as to why the lot width was at 80 ft.. Mr. Willman stated
that this was the building line.
86-PC-4 - Conover Storm Sewer Discussion
Chairman Groner stated that the next item on the agenda would be to discuss
the storm sewer in Conover's Subdivision. He inquired as to whether they
were proposing to tie into the existing one.
Mayor Davidson stated that Gary Conover was told to fill the ditches and put
the curb in. The 15 in. tile that runs through the street is not big enough
to handle the water off the street and the rest of the subdivision to the
south. The tile has been plugged for the last 3 years on Game Farm Road. The
3/25/86 - p. 4
state will be coming up Game Farm with a 18 in. to connect to the existing 18
in.. Mr. Conover would like to use a 15 in. tile. The state engineer had
stated that using the open ditch as retention would still not make it, but
there will only be a difference of 2 in. in pipe. Deutchler felt they would
need 21 to 24 the way it is, and they would like to come to a final plat.
Mayor Davidson inquired as to whether they should be required to put the curb
in, or leave it open.
Mr. Clarage felt that a solution may be to have the commercial area to the
north provide for parking lot water retention to slow the water down. There
is a crown going through the commercial. They are picking up some from the
lower part down that is going to be coming back to Leisure St.. Mr. Clarage
stated that they could tell anyone buying a commercial lot that they have to
go north with the storm water out of the parking lots. The engineer felt that
the retention would take land out of production. Mr. Clarage stated that by
putting the parking lots towards the catch basin and when there is a 5 in.
rain it could back up and the area in the drive will build up some water and
that they would not be taking anything out of use. The engineer did not think
that it would be the difference in allowing it to work under a 5 year basis,
and that with the parking lot retention, only about 6 in. can be retained.
Mr. Clarage suggested that the commercial flow be taken to the north. The
engineer stated that lot 118 to the east would go to the north. He felt that
the existing 12 in. was not in a good place because it is in a high spot.
Mr. Clarage stated that they basically want to get down to the 18 in.. They
could take an inlet and have it moved so it bypasses Leisure. They would
have to pick up another 100 ft. of line which would be approximately $1,000.
The engineer felt that the concern is whether they can live with a storm line
that is designed for less than a 6 month frequency rainfall. They have
designed on a conservative basis. The people in the subdivision have not
had any problems, but they have had the retention in the ditches. All the
retention in the ditches will now have to go to the pipe.
Mr. Langland stated that he did not like to see more drainage problems
created. He felt that it should be upgraded if the city engineer felt that
there would be a problem.
Mr. Pfister inquired as to whether an 18 in. pipe would take the drainage for
15 acres and 1 1/2 cu. ft. per second. The engineer stated that he would have
to check into it.
Mr. Hayden inquired as to whether they were asking for a variance under the
City's ordinance. Mr. Clarage felt that it should be in written form. Mr.
Johnson stated that they would like some direction as to whether the
commission feels a variance is in order, or the subdivision may not go in.
The engineer felt that another possibility would be to allow the ditch to re-
main and not put the curb and gutter on Leisure. The storm sewers will then
be closer to the city's specifications.
Mr. Johnson stated that the only time he has ever seen water sit in the entire
area was in the back ditches when there was a heavy freeze. He stated that
there is alot of sand underneath.
3/25/86 - p. 5
The engineer stated that the storm lines were put in before the ordinance was
in existence. He felt that it would be a hardship to make the developer put
in bigger lines at this time. Mr. Pfister stated that it came in before the 1
1/2 mile jurisdiction under the 1960 Subidivision Control Ordinance. It was
under the County.
Mr. Johnson stated that he did not have any problems with it. He did not
think that the water would sit. Mr. Jennings stated that there is not a
problem now because the property is not covered with houses.
Mr. Pfister stated that the line they want to put it into is plugged. Mr.
Conover stated that 90% of the water is presently going into the ground. Mr.
Langland inquired as to whether the line will be cleaned out. Mr. Conover
stated that this leads under Game Farm Rd.. Mr. Johnson did not feel that
there would be a problem because the water is all dropping into the ground
now.
Mayor Davidson stated that he did not want to lose the curb on the street.
Water may sit on the streets if there is a 4 year rain, but we do not know.
The tile was put in in the 60's. He could take some of the water and go north
with the businesses. It could be put in the catch basins and runned north.
He felt that the City needs to start growing.
Mr. Langland inquired as to what the cost would be to put retention in the
parking lots. Mr. Clarage stated that it would not cost anything, and that it
could be part of the design. There should be something so that if there is a
problem it could be handled on site, otherwise, the City will have to fix it.
There should be a contingency for some on site retention as a back up plan.
Mr. Jennings stated that he would have a problem with approving something
where the engineer says it might not work but maybe it will. Mr. Conover
stated that some of the commercial may have bigger grass areas. Mr. Clarage
felt that it could be left up to the building department to require on site
retention if it is needed so that there is some type of safety factor. Mr.
Johnson felt that a statement could be made in the annexation agreement that
certain measures will be taken if the storm water becomes a problem.
Mr. Ament did not feel that there would be a problem until the property is
developed. The engineer felt that the ideal place for the retention would be
in the low area.
Mr. Thanepohn inquired as to whether the City's ordinance requires that each
property control its own run off. Mr. Clarage stated that is only for 5 acres
or larger.
Mr. Johnson stated that they will still need a variance because they do not
meet the criteria of the Subdivision Control Ordinance, and they should
include the stipulation that they will work as it develops to insure that the
water does not back up. Mr. Clarage stated that it should include that it
will be retained on the commercial property as mutually agreed.
Mr. Pfister inquired as to to why they do not find out the range of the
minimum and maximum amount of run off. He felt that they should find out how
much the pipe will take, so they have something to work with.
Mr. Langland stated that if it takes half of the commercial property to retain
the water, the people will be flooded.
3/25/86 - p. 6
Mr-. Johnson stated that most businesses today have green areas. Mr. Clarage
stated that it must be agreed upon that they work together as the property
develops.
Mr. Clarage stated that they could apply for the variance at the time of the
final plat.
Mr. Langland inquired as to whether Willman & Groesch would be required to pay
the land cash grant fee. Mayor Davidson stated that this would be required.
Mr. Hayden stated that money for the comprehensive plan has been tentatively
put in the budget.
Mr. Ament made a motion to adjourn. Mr. Langland seconded the motion. The
meeting was adjourned.
O ----- ----- ----
Debbie Robertson, Rec. Secretary
MINUTES OF THE PUBLIC HEARING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION OF THE
CITY OF YORKVILLE HELD AT CITY HALL ON MARCH 25, 1986 AT 7:00 P.M.
Chairman Groner called the public hearing to order. Members in attendance
were: Mr. Holiman, Mrs. Price, Mr. Beaudry, Mr. Ament, Mr. Groner, and Mr.
Langland. See attendance sheet for others that were present.
PC-86-3 - Petition to Rezone from R-1 to R-2, and Subdivide 31 lots (approxi-
mately 11.556 acres) property by Willman & Groesch
Chairman Groner stated that the purpose of the public hearing was to discuss
the pre-application agreement on the Willman & Groesch property, formerly
known as the McHugh property. Public notices were sent to the 11 adjacent
property owners with the certified receipts returned. Willman & Groesch did
appear before the Plan Commission in January with the same type of conference
at which time the commission made the recommendation to them that concern be
given to the storm water, and the street width at 66 ft..
Attorney Wegner stated that he would be representing the petitioner. Don
Reger, the engineer, was also present. Attorney Wegner stated that they are
asking for two things with the first being the rezoning from R-1 to R-2 and
the second being the preliminary plat. They did change the road width to
comply with the commission's concern, and have worked out a drainage plan.
The first topographical map is to give a feel for what is going to happen on
the run off water issue. The section of property to the north has its natural
drainage away from the property. The property they will be concerned with is
the part they will be developing. The plan provides for a 12 and 12 running
into an 18in.. It should be an 18in. on the west section. It will be 12in.
on the east section and then it will run into the 18in. tile down to the city
manhole. He felt the system would be adequate for the triangular piece they
are developing.
Mr. Reger stated that they did storm water calculations. There is a natural
drainage swail at the bottom that runs to the river. They would like to put
the pipe under the road into the revene and obtain the necessary easement.
They would like an easement to go down through the McHugh farm and to the
south property line over across on Main St. .
Attorney Wegner stated that they are not asking for any variances, and that he
felt they rested the concerns of the last meeting.
Chairman Groner inquired as to their intentions for developing the property.
Attorney Wegner stated that between Spring and Quinsey they are proposing the
development of 31 lots with a minimum square footage of 12,000 ft. which will
be done in two phases. They will do lots 1-14 and then the remaining lots.
They would like to begin the first phase this year.
There was question as to whether they would be building the homes or selling
them and what type of houses they would be. They would like to build the
houses themselves. Mr. Willman stated that they are proposing houses
with 3 bedrooms, a full basement, and an attached garage which will sell for
between $60,000 and $70,000. An adjacent property owner stated that she would
not be in favor of this because it will be facing homes that are $120,000.
3/25/86 - p. 2
There was question as to whether the drainage problem in the corner would be
solved. Attorney Wegner stated that the manhole would address the problem.
Mr. Reger stated that it could have an open grade which would allow it to
drain.
There was question as to where the entrances and exits will be. The street
will go through from Spring to Quinsey on McHugh Rd.. There will only be one
street. Chairman Groner stated that it would be an extention of Spring St.
from Liberty to McHugh. Attorney Wegner stated that they intend to put in a
cul-de-sac or temporary turn around half way through the development.
Mayor Davidson stated that he had engineering done on behalf of the city. He
felt that something should be done with the water on the 90 acres to the
north which will have to drain down through the property. It will take a 4ft.
pipe with a lft. head or a 3ft. pipe with a 1 1/2 ft. head to handle the water
from the top 90 acres. He stated that the SES maps show that the only natural
way for the water to go is to drain down through the property. He would like
to propose to purchase pipe and oversize it 3 ft. and have the city pay the
difference for pipe for what Willman and Groesch were originally going to pay.
However, he did not know whether the city had the money to do this. Mr.
Langland inquired as to whether the City would pay the difference in cost
between the 18in. and 36in. pipe. Mayor Davidson stated that the city does
not have the money for the storms. Attoreny Wegner inquired as to what the
difference would be in the labor costs. Mr. Reger stated that there would be
a difference because the pipe would have to be put deeper in the ground to
pick up the elevation at the top. There is between a 15 and 16ft. cut.
Mr. Clarage arrived at 7:24 pm.
Mayor Davidson stated that he will not approve the petition unless an agree-
ment is made. Attorney Wegner stated they are not in a position to absorb the
additional costs, but he did agree with the concept. Mr. Reger stated that
they would have to go 15f t. deep, and as it is now, it is only 7f t.
Mr. Jennings inquired as to whether they own the entire parcel. Attorney
Wegner stated that they have an option to buy it pending on this development.
There was question as to what the square footage will be of the houses. Mr.
Willman stated that they will be approximately 1,000 sq. ft. without the
garage. He presented the plan they will be using. An adjacent property owner
felt that these houses would be similar to the homes on Center St. and that
concern should be given to the property values of the adjacent houses.
Mr. Thanepohn inquired as to whether there was a minimum of square footage
required for a house in the zoning ordinance. There is no such stipulation in
the ordinance. Attorney Grant stated that they would be building this type of
house to sell and make money. Mr. Willman stated that the houses on Center
st. are 912 sq. ft. and that would be the minimum in the proposed houses.
There was question as to whether they will be model homes. Mr. Willman stated
that the houses would be built as the buyer dictates, and they may not build
some of the houses. He did not feel these houses would be inferior. Many of
the adjacent property owners were not in favor of the size of the houses.
Alderman Hayden was concerned with the water going down the road to Liberty.
Mr. Reger stated that they could cut some of the hill off and then bring it
back towards the storm sewer.
3/25/86 - p. 3
Mr. Jennings was concerned with the property underneath and that it would be
locked in for future development. Mr. Langland stated that there is access on
Main St. and McHugh. Mr. Jennings liked the idea of connecting streets so
they are through streets. Mr. Reger stated that they could make an easement.
This would make it too close to one of the houses. The property would have to
be purchased to make a street go through.
Mr. Woodworth inquired as to whether a street could come down from the
proposed lots for the next development.
The lots will be 1/3 acres. The objectors stated that when they purchased
their houses, they were told that small houses would not go in that area.
They were not against the building, just the size of the homes. Mr. Willman
stated that he would take their comments into consideration. Mr. Thanepohn
felt that there was a need for smaller homes in the community. Mr. Jennings
felt that the houses were small but not necessarily shabby. Chairman Groner
questioned what restrictions were put on the house size in Woodworth's Sub-
dision. Mr. Woodworth stated that the houses must have two car garages. The
smallest house in the subdivision is approximately 1600 sq. ft. .
Mr. Hayden stated that the commission must have valid legal reasons for any
decision they make on zoning.
Chairman Groner called the public hearing to a close.
Debbie Robertson, Rec. Secretary
M .
ATTENDANCE SHEET
1. Margie Danis
2. Patricia Emery
3. Don Emery
4. August W. Corneils
5. Ray Alderson
6. Laurel Willman
7. Rick Groesch
8. Don Reger
9. Grant Wegner
10. Frank Willman
11. Lawrence Jennings
12. Larry Small
13. Ralph Pfister
14. Cliff Jahp
15. Robert Wilson
16. Marion Brand
17. Dale Woodworth
18. Stan Woodworth
19. Robert Davidson
20. Gary Conover & Engineer
21. Mike Thanepohn
22. Jim Hayden
23. Jim Clarage
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