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Plan Commission Minutes 1986 03-25-86 MINUTES OF THE PLAN COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF YORKVILLE HELD AT CITY HALL ON MARCH 25, 1986 AT 7:00 PM Chairman Groner called the regular meeting of the Plan Commission to order. Roll was called with the following members in attendance: Mr. Holdiman, Mrs. Price, Mr. Beaudry, Mr. Ament, Mr. Groner, and Mr. Langland. A quorum was established. See attached list for others that were in attendance. Mr. Langland made a motion to approve the minutes of the February 25, 1986 Plan Commission meeting. Mr. Holdiman seconded the motion. All members present were in favor. PC-86-3 - Petition to Rezone from R-1 to R-2, and subdivide 31 lots (approxi- mately 11.556 acres) property by Willman & Groesch Chairman Groner stated that the commission's order of business would be to discuss the pre-application conference and the comments made at the public hearing. Mr. Clarage inquired as to whether the commission will be approving a pre- liminary or final subdivision plat due to the drainage considerations that would have to be resolved with the council. The zoning request would be the main issue. If the zoning is granted, they will then proceed with the sub- division process which includes the lot profiles, adjacent property consid- erations, curbs, street lights, etc.. Attorney Wegner stated that they would like a recommendation on the preliminary plat. They did not know whether the drainage calculations were submitted. They are not asking for any variances. Mr. Clarage stated that they did have a conference hearing with them two months at which time the on and of site water retention was questioned, and apparently, there is not going to be storm water retention. Chairman Groner stated that the Mayor proposed that the city enlarge the pipe. Mr. Langland did not feel that it was a very imaginative subdivision. He was also concerned with what would happen to the lots in the corner because there are no provisions for access. He also felt that the drainage was a problem. Mr. Clarage stated that the property below would be a left over piece of property. He stated that from the last meeting he understood that if this track of land goes through, they will buy the other piece. He stated that normally in a preliminary plat they like to request a total land plan for the total parcel of record. He felt that they were starting in the middle. Mr. Langland inquired as to what size sewer they will hook onto. Mr. Reger stated that they will hook on Center St. which will be a 12in. Mr. Johnson felt that this would carry it. Mr. Clarage questioned as to whether on the two plats the size of the storm sewer would be increased from the 18 in.. Mr. Langland stated that there is an exhibit for a 36in. and 18in. sewer. He felt that it would have to be up to the City. Mr. Clarage inquired as to whether we could approve it without knowing which way the developer is going to go. The City should get their engineer's input. 3/25/86 - p. 2 Mr: Clarage stated that they comply with the R-2 lot sizes and the roadway size. The exhibit for cross section and preliminary plat would have to be any additional city requirements because they are not asking for any waivers. On the preliminary plat, they should start the road improvements back off the right of way, and they may want them to take the curbing and flair it out to tie the road into a radius and intersection going onto Liberty St. and McHugh. Mr. Willman has indicated that he would do this, and also on the final, he would provide for a catch basin on Liberty St. on the opposite side of the road to pick up anything that could come off of it. Mr. Clarage stated that they should improve on both sides of the corner lots because it may cost the city to do it in the future. Attorney Wegner stated that they will be filing a final plat with the City for plats 1 and 2 and a final plat approval bond for everything that they are doing, but they will only be putting in part of the improvements. Mr. Clarage stated that the bonds and letter of credit must be executed in a certain period of time, and that they will have to cover all the improvements. Mr. Clarage stated that there is a quarter mile distance along the Spring St. extention, and that there may have to be a cross street at 1/8 mile according to the ordinance. According to the ordinance, the block length should not exceed 1320 ft., and there is approximately 1500 ft. between Liberty and McHugh. There is also a provision for pedestrian crosswalks. He suggested that a cross street be put in around lot 15 for a north, south access. Some of the lots may have to be combined for corner lots. This is required under section 7.08.01 under the Subdivision Control Ordinance. The only way for the area to the southwest to subdivide would be if a street came down from a lot. An overall land plan of the area would make things clearer. Mr. Clarage stated that a provision for a dedicated access should be provided for a 66 ft. right of way on lot 15, 8, or 24 which would then open up the area to the north and south. Mr. Clarage stated that Quinsey St. is slated for a 33 ft. pavement width and will be classified as a collector street. The developer will have to go from 25 ft. to 33 ft. for collector improvements. Mrs. Price inquired as to whether the gulley they will be dumping the water into will be big enough to handle all the water. The revene is by Gawne Lane. Mr. Woodworth stated that if they dump the water into the revene, it will make the lot at the bottom useless. Mr. Clarage felt that they should have an easement to go through the property. Mr. Johnson stated that the paperwork is being done. Mr. Clarage felt that the following items should be considered for the sub- division petition: the storm water, change the pavement width from 25 ft. to 33 ft., a cross street in the middle as stated by ordinance in section 7.08.01, a 66 ft. right of way should be provided, and as the other areas are developed the cross street could go in. Mr. Reger felt that the only logical place for the cross street would be at lot 18 which would then make a 300 block. Mr. Clarage felt that a cul-de-sac could be put in to pick up the other property. Mr. Reger did not feel that there would be enough room for a cul-de-sac. Mr. Clarage stated that they will not have room to put lots around the cul-de-sac, but there would be 200- 3/25/86 - 3 225 ft.. He suggested the commission let the developer's engineers decide where the cross street will go subject to the commission's approval. MR. LANGLAND MADE A MOTION TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL THAT: 1. THE ROADWAY ON SPRING STREET SHOULD BE 33 FT. SO THAT IT FITS WITH THE INTERCEPTOR OF QUINSEY STREET. 2. IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE SUBDIVISION CONTROL ORDINANCE, A NORTH SOUTH STREET SHOULD GO THROUGH THE CENTER OF THE PROPERTY, SO THAT IT WILL SERVICE THE NORTH AND SOUTH PROPERTY. 3. A 36 IN. MAIN IS A NECESSITY AND THAT THE WATER SHOULD NOT BE DUMPED ON THE OPEN GROUND OVER SOMEONE ELSES PROPERTY WITHOUT CLARIFICATION. 4. AND THEY RECOMMEND APPROVAL WITH THESE COMMENTS MADE TO THE CITY COUNCIL. MR. BEAUDRY SECONDED THE MOTION. A ROLL CALL VOTE WAS TAKEN. AMENT - YES GRONER - YES BEAUDRY - YES HOLDIMAN - YES LANGLAND - YES PRICE - YES THE MOTION CARRIED. Mr. Hayden stated the flow calculations have not been submitted. Mr. Clarage stated that they can be submitted with the final plat. Mr. Clarage stated that the rezoning should be subject to having the legal descriptions attached for the 11.556 acres, and there should be a zoning survey plat exhibit, so that there is an exact record of the borders for updating the zoning map. Attorney Wegner stated that he would furnish this information. MR. BEAUDRY MADE A MOTION TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL TO GRANT THE ZONING CHANGE FROM R-1 TO R-2. MRS. PRICE SECONDED THE MOTION. A ROLL CALL VOTE WAS TAKEN. GRONER - YES PRICE - YES HOLDIMAN - YES BEAUDRY - YES AMENT - YES LANGLAND - YES THE MOTION CARRIED. Chairman Groner reminded those present that the Plan Commission can only make recommendations to the City Council, and that the Council would make the final decision. There was question as to whether the minutes would be made available to the public and when. The recording secretary stated that they would be available in approximately a week. Mr. Hayden stated that the minutes would not be official until approved by the Plan Commission at their next meeting. There was question as to why the lot width was at 80 ft.. Mr. Willman stated that this was the building line. 86-PC-4 - Conover Storm Sewer Discussion Chairman Groner stated that the next item on the agenda would be to discuss the storm sewer in Conover's Subdivision. He inquired as to whether they were proposing to tie into the existing one. Mayor Davidson stated that Gary Conover was told to fill the ditches and put the curb in. The 15 in. tile that runs through the street is not big enough to handle the water off the street and the rest of the subdivision to the south. The tile has been plugged for the last 3 years on Game Farm Road. The 3/25/86 - p. 4 state will be coming up Game Farm with a 18 in. to connect to the existing 18 in.. Mr. Conover would like to use a 15 in. tile. The state engineer had stated that using the open ditch as retention would still not make it, but there will only be a difference of 2 in. in pipe. Deutchler felt they would need 21 to 24 the way it is, and they would like to come to a final plat. Mayor Davidson inquired as to whether they should be required to put the curb in, or leave it open. Mr. Clarage felt that a solution may be to have the commercial area to the north provide for parking lot water retention to slow the water down. There is a crown going through the commercial. They are picking up some from the lower part down that is going to be coming back to Leisure St.. Mr. Clarage stated that they could tell anyone buying a commercial lot that they have to go north with the storm water out of the parking lots. The engineer felt that the retention would take land out of production. Mr. Clarage stated that by putting the parking lots towards the catch basin and when there is a 5 in. rain it could back up and the area in the drive will build up some water and that they would not be taking anything out of use. The engineer did not think that it would be the difference in allowing it to work under a 5 year basis, and that with the parking lot retention, only about 6 in. can be retained. Mr. Clarage suggested that the commercial flow be taken to the north. The engineer stated that lot 118 to the east would go to the north. He felt that the existing 12 in. was not in a good place because it is in a high spot. Mr. Clarage stated that they basically want to get down to the 18 in.. They could take an inlet and have it moved so it bypasses Leisure. They would have to pick up another 100 ft. of line which would be approximately $1,000. The engineer felt that the concern is whether they can live with a storm line that is designed for less than a 6 month frequency rainfall. They have designed on a conservative basis. The people in the subdivision have not had any problems, but they have had the retention in the ditches. All the retention in the ditches will now have to go to the pipe. Mr. Langland stated that he did not like to see more drainage problems created. He felt that it should be upgraded if the city engineer felt that there would be a problem. Mr. Pfister inquired as to whether an 18 in. pipe would take the drainage for 15 acres and 1 1/2 cu. ft. per second. The engineer stated that he would have to check into it. Mr. Hayden inquired as to whether they were asking for a variance under the City's ordinance. Mr. Clarage felt that it should be in written form. Mr. Johnson stated that they would like some direction as to whether the commission feels a variance is in order, or the subdivision may not go in. The engineer felt that another possibility would be to allow the ditch to re- main and not put the curb and gutter on Leisure. The storm sewers will then be closer to the city's specifications. Mr. Johnson stated that the only time he has ever seen water sit in the entire area was in the back ditches when there was a heavy freeze. He stated that there is alot of sand underneath. 3/25/86 - p. 5 The engineer stated that the storm lines were put in before the ordinance was in existence. He felt that it would be a hardship to make the developer put in bigger lines at this time. Mr. Pfister stated that it came in before the 1 1/2 mile jurisdiction under the 1960 Subidivision Control Ordinance. It was under the County. Mr. Johnson stated that he did not have any problems with it. He did not think that the water would sit. Mr. Jennings stated that there is not a problem now because the property is not covered with houses. Mr. Pfister stated that the line they want to put it into is plugged. Mr. Conover stated that 90% of the water is presently going into the ground. Mr. Langland inquired as to whether the line will be cleaned out. Mr. Conover stated that this leads under Game Farm Rd.. Mr. Johnson did not feel that there would be a problem because the water is all dropping into the ground now. Mayor Davidson stated that he did not want to lose the curb on the street. Water may sit on the streets if there is a 4 year rain, but we do not know. The tile was put in in the 60's. He could take some of the water and go north with the businesses. It could be put in the catch basins and runned north. He felt that the City needs to start growing. Mr. Langland inquired as to what the cost would be to put retention in the parking lots. Mr. Clarage stated that it would not cost anything, and that it could be part of the design. There should be something so that if there is a problem it could be handled on site, otherwise, the City will have to fix it. There should be a contingency for some on site retention as a back up plan. Mr. Jennings stated that he would have a problem with approving something where the engineer says it might not work but maybe it will. Mr. Conover stated that some of the commercial may have bigger grass areas. Mr. Clarage felt that it could be left up to the building department to require on site retention if it is needed so that there is some type of safety factor. Mr. Johnson felt that a statement could be made in the annexation agreement that certain measures will be taken if the storm water becomes a problem. Mr. Ament did not feel that there would be a problem until the property is developed. The engineer felt that the ideal place for the retention would be in the low area. Mr. Thanepohn inquired as to whether the City's ordinance requires that each property control its own run off. Mr. Clarage stated that is only for 5 acres or larger. Mr. Johnson stated that they will still need a variance because they do not meet the criteria of the Subdivision Control Ordinance, and they should include the stipulation that they will work as it develops to insure that the water does not back up. Mr. Clarage stated that it should include that it will be retained on the commercial property as mutually agreed. Mr. Pfister inquired as to to why they do not find out the range of the minimum and maximum amount of run off. He felt that they should find out how much the pipe will take, so they have something to work with. Mr. Langland stated that if it takes half of the commercial property to retain the water, the people will be flooded. 3/25/86 - p. 6 Mr-. Johnson stated that most businesses today have green areas. Mr. Clarage stated that it must be agreed upon that they work together as the property develops. Mr. Clarage stated that they could apply for the variance at the time of the final plat. Mr. Langland inquired as to whether Willman & Groesch would be required to pay the land cash grant fee. Mayor Davidson stated that this would be required. Mr. Hayden stated that money for the comprehensive plan has been tentatively put in the budget. Mr. Ament made a motion to adjourn. Mr. Langland seconded the motion. The meeting was adjourned. O ----- ----- ---- Debbie Robertson, Rec. Secretary MINUTES OF THE PUBLIC HEARING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF YORKVILLE HELD AT CITY HALL ON MARCH 25, 1986 AT 7:00 P.M. Chairman Groner called the public hearing to order. Members in attendance were: Mr. Holiman, Mrs. Price, Mr. Beaudry, Mr. Ament, Mr. Groner, and Mr. Langland. See attendance sheet for others that were present. PC-86-3 - Petition to Rezone from R-1 to R-2, and Subdivide 31 lots (approxi- mately 11.556 acres) property by Willman & Groesch Chairman Groner stated that the purpose of the public hearing was to discuss the pre-application agreement on the Willman & Groesch property, formerly known as the McHugh property. Public notices were sent to the 11 adjacent property owners with the certified receipts returned. Willman & Groesch did appear before the Plan Commission in January with the same type of conference at which time the commission made the recommendation to them that concern be given to the storm water, and the street width at 66 ft.. Attorney Wegner stated that he would be representing the petitioner. Don Reger, the engineer, was also present. Attorney Wegner stated that they are asking for two things with the first being the rezoning from R-1 to R-2 and the second being the preliminary plat. They did change the road width to comply with the commission's concern, and have worked out a drainage plan. The first topographical map is to give a feel for what is going to happen on the run off water issue. The section of property to the north has its natural drainage away from the property. The property they will be concerned with is the part they will be developing. The plan provides for a 12 and 12 running into an 18in.. It should be an 18in. on the west section. It will be 12in. on the east section and then it will run into the 18in. tile down to the city manhole. He felt the system would be adequate for the triangular piece they are developing. Mr. Reger stated that they did storm water calculations. There is a natural drainage swail at the bottom that runs to the river. They would like to put the pipe under the road into the revene and obtain the necessary easement. They would like an easement to go down through the McHugh farm and to the south property line over across on Main St. . Attorney Wegner stated that they are not asking for any variances, and that he felt they rested the concerns of the last meeting. Chairman Groner inquired as to their intentions for developing the property. Attorney Wegner stated that between Spring and Quinsey they are proposing the development of 31 lots with a minimum square footage of 12,000 ft. which will be done in two phases. They will do lots 1-14 and then the remaining lots. They would like to begin the first phase this year. There was question as to whether they would be building the homes or selling them and what type of houses they would be. They would like to build the houses themselves. Mr. Willman stated that they are proposing houses with 3 bedrooms, a full basement, and an attached garage which will sell for between $60,000 and $70,000. An adjacent property owner stated that she would not be in favor of this because it will be facing homes that are $120,000. 3/25/86 - p. 2 There was question as to whether the drainage problem in the corner would be solved. Attorney Wegner stated that the manhole would address the problem. Mr. Reger stated that it could have an open grade which would allow it to drain. There was question as to where the entrances and exits will be. The street will go through from Spring to Quinsey on McHugh Rd.. There will only be one street. Chairman Groner stated that it would be an extention of Spring St. from Liberty to McHugh. Attorney Wegner stated that they intend to put in a cul-de-sac or temporary turn around half way through the development. Mayor Davidson stated that he had engineering done on behalf of the city. He felt that something should be done with the water on the 90 acres to the north which will have to drain down through the property. It will take a 4ft. pipe with a lft. head or a 3ft. pipe with a 1 1/2 ft. head to handle the water from the top 90 acres. He stated that the SES maps show that the only natural way for the water to go is to drain down through the property. He would like to propose to purchase pipe and oversize it 3 ft. and have the city pay the difference for pipe for what Willman and Groesch were originally going to pay. However, he did not know whether the city had the money to do this. Mr. Langland inquired as to whether the City would pay the difference in cost between the 18in. and 36in. pipe. Mayor Davidson stated that the city does not have the money for the storms. Attoreny Wegner inquired as to what the difference would be in the labor costs. Mr. Reger stated that there would be a difference because the pipe would have to be put deeper in the ground to pick up the elevation at the top. There is between a 15 and 16ft. cut. Mr. Clarage arrived at 7:24 pm. Mayor Davidson stated that he will not approve the petition unless an agree- ment is made. Attorney Wegner stated they are not in a position to absorb the additional costs, but he did agree with the concept. Mr. Reger stated that they would have to go 15f t. deep, and as it is now, it is only 7f t. Mr. Jennings inquired as to whether they own the entire parcel. Attorney Wegner stated that they have an option to buy it pending on this development. There was question as to what the square footage will be of the houses. Mr. Willman stated that they will be approximately 1,000 sq. ft. without the garage. He presented the plan they will be using. An adjacent property owner felt that these houses would be similar to the homes on Center St. and that concern should be given to the property values of the adjacent houses. Mr. Thanepohn inquired as to whether there was a minimum of square footage required for a house in the zoning ordinance. There is no such stipulation in the ordinance. Attorney Grant stated that they would be building this type of house to sell and make money. Mr. Willman stated that the houses on Center st. are 912 sq. ft. and that would be the minimum in the proposed houses. There was question as to whether they will be model homes. Mr. Willman stated that the houses would be built as the buyer dictates, and they may not build some of the houses. He did not feel these houses would be inferior. Many of the adjacent property owners were not in favor of the size of the houses. Alderman Hayden was concerned with the water going down the road to Liberty. Mr. Reger stated that they could cut some of the hill off and then bring it back towards the storm sewer. 3/25/86 - p. 3 Mr. Jennings was concerned with the property underneath and that it would be locked in for future development. Mr. Langland stated that there is access on Main St. and McHugh. Mr. Jennings liked the idea of connecting streets so they are through streets. Mr. Reger stated that they could make an easement. This would make it too close to one of the houses. The property would have to be purchased to make a street go through. Mr. Woodworth inquired as to whether a street could come down from the proposed lots for the next development. The lots will be 1/3 acres. The objectors stated that when they purchased their houses, they were told that small houses would not go in that area. They were not against the building, just the size of the homes. Mr. Willman stated that he would take their comments into consideration. Mr. Thanepohn felt that there was a need for smaller homes in the community. Mr. Jennings felt that the houses were small but not necessarily shabby. Chairman Groner questioned what restrictions were put on the house size in Woodworth's Sub- dision. Mr. Woodworth stated that the houses must have two car garages. The smallest house in the subdivision is approximately 1600 sq. ft. . Mr. Hayden stated that the commission must have valid legal reasons for any decision they make on zoning. Chairman Groner called the public hearing to a close. Debbie Robertson, Rec. Secretary M . ATTENDANCE SHEET 1. Margie Danis 2. Patricia Emery 3. Don Emery 4. August W. Corneils 5. Ray Alderson 6. Laurel Willman 7. Rick Groesch 8. Don Reger 9. Grant Wegner 10. Frank Willman 11. Lawrence Jennings 12. Larry Small 13. Ralph Pfister 14. Cliff Jahp 15. Robert Wilson 16. Marion Brand 17. Dale Woodworth 18. Stan Woodworth 19. Robert Davidson 20. Gary Conover & Engineer 21. Mike Thanepohn 22. Jim Hayden 23. 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