Plan Council Minutes 1999 08-12-99 a
UNITED CITY OF YORKVILLE
Committee Minutes - Plan Council
August 12, 1999
Meeting Location: 111 W. Fox St.
Time Convened: 9:33 a.m.
Time Adjourned: 11:28 a.m.
Attendees:
Jim Nanninga - City Administrator Bob Allen - Treasurer
Bill Dettmer - Building Inspector Richard Marker - Heartland
Joe Wywrot - City Engineer Clayton Marker - Heartland
Mike Schoppe - Schoppe Design Steve Roake - Roake & Assoc
Tim Fairfield - B.K.F.P.D. Wally Ahrens - B.K.F.P.D.
Tony Graff - Police Dept.
HEARTLAND SUBDIVISION- PRELIMINARY PLAN
This has gone to Plan Commission as Concept and the consensus was favorable. Jim asked
Richard Marker if he had read the schedule of upcoming meetings and understood the costs of
outside planner and legal fees. Yes.
Richard Marker explained the project. This project is made up of four parcels including the
Wackerlin Farm, a right-of-way(ROW)that goes out to Tuma Road and the triangular piece that
is Route 34 and McHugh which is currently the auto sale place. This will be a development of
approximately 186 single family residences(down from 220). They have changed the corner lots
and made them wider. They are 95' at the corner which will make them more buildable. Twelve
acres will be commercial where they will reroute McHugh Road to make a 90 angle to route 34.
The residential will be developed with a P.U.D. and will have 12,000 sq ft plus on the perimeter
lots. The interior lots will have a trail system and detention. The detention will incorporate 18
acres of a paved trail system for biking, roller skating, etc. with gardens, gazebos and a walkway
thru to pool and clubhouse all the way to the retail. It will be a pedestrian orientated community.
There was discussion regarding a lift station and as to how and where the city water and sewer
would be run into the subdivision.
Richard remarked on discussions with the Park Board that he is meeting with them August 23rd.
There hasn't yet been any discussion with them regarding the Land Cash Ordinance and park
donation calculations.
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The issue of some of the lots backing up to the baseball diamond at the Legion was also
discussed. Richard assured the Council that those lots will be marketed as backing to the
diamond and the lights and that they would be offered at a lower price.
Mike Schoppe presented his review stating that the plan is consistent with the comprehensive
plan. The private open space is a non traditional park donation. It should equal 10 acres/1000
people. Richard stated that it is not intended to be donated as a city park. Schoppe figured per
Ordinance, with 186 lots there should be 6-7 acres of park. 3-5 acres of land should be
something like a playground with a soccer field. Show the amenities of the park on the plan.
Richard said it is hard to route the pathway system without knowing the final plan. Schoppe
pointed out that since this is more of a nontraditional plan, it will help the Park Board to see how
it will work by opening the space and making it more visible from the street. The Clubhouse will
be association owned and the open space will be private property. Marker explained that it is
intended for use of the community and in no way will be gated or fenced. Everyone is free to
utilize the area and trails.
Tony Graff also initiated discussion regarding the obstruction of viewing the green area as it
relates to crime, trash, and kids congregating. It makes people nervous to have people wondering
thru their backyards. Marker said that this concept is specifically set up to bring the sense of
community. Bring them into their backyards to interact and create a safe area by knowing each
other without the threat of outsiders. Private citizens tend to enforce no trespassing, loitering and
keeping trash picked up. These pathways are not narrow. They are 6 - 7' wide and the open
areas are large, some the size of a football field. The entryways are 50' wide minimum. Tony
likes the concept but needs to have more discussion to address concerns. Countryside was used
as a comparison and they have common areas without identifiable ownership and there have been
problems there. Marker determined that 1/186th of the common areas will be owned by each
lot. They will be assessed$40-$50 per month. Which will give the open areas, pool and
clubhouse a$90 - $100,000 budget per year. Not all lots back up to the trail. All have access to
the pool and clubhouse,but have choice of being by trail or not. This was the only comment
Schoppe had on land use.
Schoppe continued with more procedure related comments. This will be developed with a PUD?
Yes. Preliminary plan goes to Plan Commission on 9/8/99. It should include architect plans and
a general landscape plan with an emphasis on the commercial areas and lots that back to the
Legion. State the number of trees/linear foot. The Landscape Ordinance should be adopted
within the next 60 days, use it as a guideline. In addition to the items outlined in the Ordinance
and PUD give total acreage, gross density and park acreage. Also, it would be helpful to include
any deviations from the standard ordinance for R3 commercial zoning. These can all be separate.
The preliminary plan needs to include the architectural, engineering, site and landscape plans.
Wywrot then started with his review of the plan. He feels this is a generally good plan.
Mentioned that JT doesn't like cul-de-sacs because they are difficult to plow. Can they be
connected and made thru streets?
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Marker explained that there are only four in 96 acres and these are necessary to create a
continuous rear-yard open space.
Wywrot wants to see how they propose to improve the trail and open areas. Can review the list
and include the dollar amounts. Consensus was that 10,000 s.f. lots along interior was ok.
Marker stated that there will be private ownership of the open spaces with access to the road.
McHugh Road at Route 34 will have a 250' radius turn. The green area over by the motel west
of relocated McHugh Road will need screening and will have 30-40' additional space due to the
IDOT turn radius requirement.
The entire development will require a PUD with underlying zoning. There isn't any zoning
currently. B3 usage has been requested but not granted yet. The residential is R2-single family.
The out buildings in the commercial are too close to the ROW, move the parking back and show
the lot lines.
There isn't any park dedication shown. Marker stated he's waiting until he talks to the Park
Board.
An Intersection Design Study needs to be done for the new intersection to determine if turn bays
and/or traffic signals are needed. Then IDOT needs to approve the study and location. Wywrot,
developer, and Graff need to meet with Bristol Township for the new intersection at McHugh
and Route 34 on issues like annexing, vacation of ROW, off-site improvements and others.
Graff mentioned that preliminary discussion with Township on straightening it were positive.
Marker also mentioned that condemning the auto place may help. McHugh Road may need to be
widened to conform to our collector roadway standards. Since a section is not ours, it's Bristol
Townships, an Intergovernmental Agreement may need to be worked out. Access road ROW
should be 66' wide and annexed out to Tuma Rd. McHugh needs to have 80' of ROW; only 66'
is shown. It needs to be 40' to the center, 39' back to back of curb. Round off ROW at corners.
Wywrot suggested overlaying the entire pavement to improve the roadway strength. There may
be other improvements needed to McHugh. Marker stated that he felt IDOT would approve
moving the traffic signal further to the East of Route 47. Graff added that IDOT would consider
land uses and timing of development.
Wywrot stated there are several different studies that need to be completed, including a field tile
survey, an USDA land use report, and an analysis of the downstream sewer. They need to know
the reports are coming. There aren't any wetlands. The legal description points need to be
checked. The proposed detention basin is too deep. Tripling the area of the pond would
devastate the project. Discussion was held regarding the depth of the pond and whether the
danger regarding it increases. Calculations need to be confirmed on the pond. Roake stated that
he has the drainage calculations. Wywrot stated that 4' is the cutoff. Marker feels that wet ponds
are maintenance horror. Dry pond is preferred as detention.
Wywrot stated the roads should be named on the plan. Curbline spacing was discussed next.
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Check for feasibility in each lot having their own sewer services for sump pumps and down
spouts. Graff added that names need to be reviewed by KENCOM. They could contact the
Historical Society if they wanted some history info.
Wywrot touched on public sidewalks next. The off-site walk to provide access to Prairie Park
from the main entrance and west of lots 1 &2 along McHugh is a good location. This will go up
McHugh from Jackson to Walnut. There may need to be an Agreement to determine who will
maintain. Need to talk to Bristol Township on this. This is a Park Board concern.
The typical section shown for residential streets is 28' back to back. 31' is required. Nanninga
said since it's less than 31',maybe only allowing parking on one side of the street would work.
Roake felt that was reasonable. Marker pointed out that the clubhouse parking will help reduce
on-street parking. Graff mentioned he was concerned about 28' through out the subdivision,
especially by the clubhouse and commercial areas where the traffic counts will be higher. When
emergency vehicles come in they will use the road from Route 34,McHugh and in. Marker
expressed concern with additional cost of B612 curbing and widening streets.
Wywrot reviewed the ROW width needs. Roake stated the ordinance calls for CA7 under the
sidewalks and CA6 under the streets. OK. Show the front yard easements. The cul-de-sac
widths shown are 120 and 130 is required. The minimum horizontal radius should be 100' to the
centerline at curves. Discussion was held as to the ITE guidelines for traffic flow and safety and
what radius should be used. Roake expressed a desire to follow this guideline. Wywrot asked
that literature be sent on this for review.
The sewer layout was discussed. City wants as much as possible to drain by gravity. Roake
doesn't like sewers less than 6' deep. Conflicts with watermains are a nightmare. Wywrot wants
an outfall that's closer to the lift station. Engineer for YBSD is Deuchler. Deuchler
recommended use of a 30-42" sewer line. Roake asked if there was an easier way to route the
sewer thru the subdivision. Wywrot explained that it's too far into the future to route now.
Roake stated they'll try to accommodate for the future. Wywrot agreed. There is a 12"
watermain from Walnut that dead ends. Will use a 12"across the front to the commercial and
loop with 8". Fairfield suggested a 12" loop. Roake stated a 12" on Route 34 and 8"to 10"on
sw side of commercial with pressure in the high 50's maybe even 60's. Need flow in large
building. 12"to 10" at back around a 50,000 sq ft building. Using a 6" fire line, do they need a
fire flow test? Discussion was held regarding the watermains and double feeding. Wywrot will
talk to Barry Niles about a possibility of an easement on Teri Lane. Recaptures were discussed.
Possibly St. Patrick's on Walnut. Joe will check on it.
The spacing of fire hydrants was discussed. They are required every 300'. Theirs are shown
closer and they can eliminate some. Roake stated they'll be kept under 325' apart. Wywrot
asked if they can show valving on preliminary, no more than one dozen homes shut down at any
one time. The off-site watermain is not shown. Work on it during the final plan design. Flip the
watermain and sewer in 2 courts to reduce the copper service lengths.
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A preliminary Landscape Plan needs to be submitted for review by Schoppe. Marker asked
where to place streetlights in the courts. It depends on the length of the courts, use your best
judgment. Wywrot stated the standard for lighting listed in the Subdivision Ordinance is 150W.
Sump pump discharge in the commercial was discussed. As well as the down spout situation.
Bob Allen asked if the fees had been paid. Marker explained that they are under discussion with
the Mayor. Need to be paid prior to Plan Commission. This will go to the Park Board 8/23/99
Then to Plan Commission 9/8/99. Plans and revisions needed by 9/1/99. This development is
under the new Ordinance and a deposit is required to charge back fees from the outside planner
and lawyers.
Marker stated that $20,000 in fees for preliminary stage is ridiculous. There is a$6590 plan
review fee plus a$5000 deposit for legal/planning services. Nanninga mentioned that the City
will review Engineering. Need to ask Ralph Pfister about annexing to the YBSD. Fees and
payment were explained. Sewer capacity discussed.
BACKYARD DETENTION
Nanninga explained the need for discussion. Who'll maintain it and keep it from being filled in.
Schoppe asked to exclude detention easement areas in density and lot area calculations.
Nanninga asked how close should high water get to houses. Dettmer stated setbacks are from the
lot line. 40' or 20' happens rarely. He stated that it's ok but some homeowners forget and then
start filling. There's 40' of usable space, then detention. It's already that way in Greenbriar and
BBCN. Graff is it standard now? Not prohibited. Schoppe and Dettmer will set up some
guidelines and do a memo.
ADDITIONAL BUSINESS
Shell info. There is no change in the special use. They need site review and to pay additional
fees. Need to document hours spent on this and payments made. Give credit on hours.
Minutes respectfully submitted by Holly Baker.
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