Plan Council Minutes 1996 10-15-96 -1-
UNITED CITY OF THE VILLAGE OF YORKVILLE
Committee Minutes -Planning Council
Date of Meeting: October 15, 1996 Location: 111 W. Fox
Time Convened: 9:30 am Time Adjourned: 12:15 pm
Attendees: Representing
Tim Fairfield BKFPD/EMS
Jim Nanninga City of Yorkville
Ralph Pfister YBSD
Darren Sloniger The Development Group
Janie Huston Halbesma
George Bell Halbesma
Jeff Palmquist The Lannert Group
Bill Dettmer City of Yorkville
Dean Edmeier The Edmeier Group
Joe Wywrot City of Yorkville
Gary Pike McClure Engineering/Landmark America
Beverly Elleby ReMax, Yorkville/Landmark America
Mark A. Gershon Rudnick & WolfeA andmark America
Adam Trott CH& L Archetects/Landmark America
Tom Grant Attorney/Landmark America
J.T. Johnson City of Yorkville
Karl Norberg Landmark America
PC96-13 FOX MILL - The Development Group/Darren Sloniger
Sloniger presented a revised plan done by John Spinader that now includes Phase II. Joe Wywrot
has prepared a review(attached) and continued with a verbal of the review stating the plan has
some missing and inacurate dimensions, and assuming that all of these roads, and the frontage
road are going to be private the barrier curbs are not acceptable. As there is no gutter for the
water in the asphalt. The sanitary sewer is shown about 4' South of the building wall and that
needs to be resolved by either moving the wall or the sewer. Needs two sources of supply for
water, and maybe we would consider a loop back to Van Emmon. There is sidewalk on both
sides, and one side is adequate along the frontage road on the North side of the building. Just the
sidewalk on the South side only would be acceptable. The detail of the split rail fence is O.K.
The Mill Street closure is out. The storm sewer is indicated on the plan as being extended to the
River as a deeper line, but it is shown as being part of phase II, and it should be a part of phase I.
There are some low areas that will be low through phase I. If we load up phase II with all this
stuff, it will make phase II so expensive it will never be done. Sloniger stated that he doesn't
make any money until he gets to phase II. Wywrot stated that maybe we could get a
letter-of-credit guaranteeing the storm sewer early on, and to be completed later. Sloniger stated
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that he has not guaranteed that line going all the way to the River. Nanninga stated that the
reason for that is that it is the only way to get gravity flow. Wywrot stated that once again there
are no grades shown, so there are no outlets for the main ditch. Johnson stated that he has never
observed standing water there and thinks the Rail Road has some area drains in there, but he has
dug there looking and cannot find any drains,just stone. We don't want to cause a problem with
the rail road. We can re-visit this one. Wywrot stated that the plan shows what is probably an
oversight on the part of the engineer, showing 2" individual copper lines to each of the four units,
and they wouldn't want that. The fire hydrants need to be restored to the place they were in the
last plan, an then also show one at the Northeast corner of the other building. The lighting there
looks like there are some luminaries on the building, but there needs to be lighting along the road.
Plan does not show the kind of lighting, and only shows one light, needs to have at least three.
Johnson states there needs to be one every 300'by ordinance. Sloniger agrees to three lights to
match the Riverwalk's. Wywrot stated that the frontage road has a sudden narrowing, and
providing emergency access for elderly project is in the front, then this needs to be a turn-a-round.
Continuing with the road there are some spot grades given, but we need an established profile and
a cross section to see how it influences the stretch along the tracks. In regard to storm sewer
pipe, even though the road is going to be private, the storm sewer will probably end up being a
city storm sewer. Sloniger agreed to run sewer to the railroad tracks if the City will take it from
the tracks across the park to the River. Nanninga stated that if Sloniger wants the City to run the
sewer from the Railroad tracks to River, he will have to make a formal request to the City.
Johnson stated that Public Works planned to finish that part of sewer before park is finished
anyway. Palmquist began a discussion regarding the road into the property becoming a public
road, and it was determined that it would not become a public road due to inadequate space.
Wywrot stated further that structural elevation is missing from plan, and landscape plan should be
made page five of the plan. Dettmer would like to see a plan showing the hydrants repositioned.
Nanninga stated they needed to resolve the sanitary sewer that is too close to the buildings also.
Wywrot stated that the problem is that the building is only 8' from the lot line, and he needs
easement on adjoining property. Johnson stated that he has spoken to property owner, and feels
it will be to his benefit to allow easement, and he is agrable to talking about this. Palmquist
stated that Sloniger needs a list of items that need to be addressed in the P.U.D. Sloniger asks for
some samples of P.U. D agreements for his attorney to work from. Nanninga asked what
Sloniger still takes issue with. Sloniger stated taking the storm sewer beyond the railroad tracks.
Nanninga stated that Sloniger needs to meet the requirements covered today and resolve the
easement issue for sanitary sewers lines prior to going to Plan Commission, or they may refer him
back to Plan Council. Wywrot asked what the Council recommendation was in regard to the
water main looping back to Van Emmon. Johnson stated that as long as the City has a provision
stating that it will go through when something develops on the Robb Container property whether
it is developed by Sloniger or someone else. Project referred to Plan Commission and then
Economic Development.
PC96-18 FOX HIGHLANDS - The Edmeier Group
Dean Edmeier presented an up date of revisions since last Plan Council. In regard to the density,
the now have 167 single family homes, 90 town homes. Only 2 lots remain under 12,000 sq. ft.
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for a total of 257 units on 221 acres, minus detention and right-of-way makes that 212 acres, and
1.2 units per acre. There are 167 single family homes on 65.3 acres, a density of 2.5 single family
and 5.06 town homes without the Golf Course. Nanninga stated for the record that he could have
put homes on all of this including the golf course area. Palmquist stated that the City should
recognize this and show some flexibility with the two remaining lots under 12,000 sq. ft. Edmeier
stated he has a survey being done to reflect the tax revenue and other taxes derived from other
Golf Courses in the area. There will be a residents club with a club house, tennis courts and a
pool that will serve the town homes, as well as phase I, & IV of the single family homes. This
plan now shows the town home roads connected. Palmquist asks if the doing 5 & 2 units
buildings would save trees, and if they would look at side load driveways. Edmeier stated that
4,3, and 2's would be acceptable, 5 units are too long, and are not attractive,. Johnson stated he
thought the roads in the town home area were a Fire Department issue, and they are still too
narrow at 24'. Nanninga stated that they needed to be 3 P back to back roads. Edmeier stated
they were working on that. Palmquist stated they needed to add off street parking, and would
like a parking exhibit for the Plan Commission. Johnson stated that saving trees and off street
parking could all change when sewer, water and utilities go in, as area is tight, and utilities might
need to be in the front. Palmquist stated that they need to show a detail of the tight areas with
utilities along the town home private road. Nanninga stated that this plan needs to be ready
before Plan Commission. Palmquist stated that the Council would like to have an aerial of the
area, as Plan Commission is looking to the professionals on this issue. Edmeier stated they are
working on this and will have an answer about the end of the month, and they will satisfy the
Board. They are working with Mick Jones at IDOT, and a couple others in Springfield on the
entrance and turn lane at Route #71. The distance between Wildwood and Fox Highlands is a flat
stretch of road, and there isn't a lot that can be done to spread that distance. Wywrot stated it is a
long smooth slope, and is not flat. His engineers have discussed with IDOT that this is eventually
going to be like Route #47 with lots of cuts. Dan Kramer is working with ComEd to get sewer
easement, and he will be meeting with Ralph Pfister regarding the sanitary sewers By the end of
the month he will be better able to tell the Board where we stand with sewers. The sewer access
on ComEd is a City project, so they have to work out the issues. He is working with the Park
Board, has been to EDC and Edmeier stated he will go to Plan Commission on 11/13/96 and
wonders if he will pass with 2 lots still under 12,000 sq. ft. Palmquist and Nanninga both stated
that they felt is should be OK.
PC96-20 FOX HOLLOW-Landmark America
Tom Grant presents an update stating the tennis court is back on the plan in the area that had been
suggested. They have been trying to contact Harris Forest Preserves, but have not had any
success in reaching them as yet, but they are showing a tentative access anyway. Trott stated that
they have made revisions in the walkway, and broken down the 8 unit buildings. The pedestrian
easements are still floating as they aren't sure where they can position them, and the overflow
parking is now shown as discussed at the last meeting. Nanninga stated that the Council needs to
know what Fox Hollow is planning for detention and retention. Pike stated that the plan was
prepared to try to meet all the issues raised by Wywrot at the last Council meeting, and they have
no problem addressing comments on city water and sewer requirements. Along Route #71 they
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have extended the 12" water main along the frontage and changed from 12" to 8" for the short
leg, and they have two points of connection to the 12" line on Route#71. They have an interior
road loop of 8", and a sub of 8". They have added a roadway cross section that shows
horizontally the dimensions where they would like to run the sanitary and storm sewers, as well as
the domestic water, fire hydrants, and the sidewalks are also shown. They are proposing a 78'
wide easement for road access and utilitie, and the road is 28' back to back. At the last meeting
Fox Hollow was informed that the City preferred a storm water basin of maximum 4' depth. The
4' limitation presents a conflict, and Fox Hollow would prefer a 6'water depth, being slightly
deeper in the middle, with a 3 to 1 side slope. This is mowable and would be maintained privately
by the complex. Wywrot stated that 4 to 1 is better looking. Pike stated that the berm along
Route 71 would block any visibility of the pond, and based on this size it would require a deeper
depth. Palmquist stated that meandering it's shape would make it more attractive. Nanninga
stated that the requirement is 4.1, but since it is hidden by the berm and the center won't be very
visible it might be possible, but as the City is considering an ordinance regarding detention, if they
do agrees to the 3 to 1 side slopes on this detention Fox Hollow would have to heavily landscape
along the berm, perhaps using some stone to break it up. Johnson stated the large lime stone
slabs should be used. Norberg stated they would work stone into the slope. Pike stated that in
reference to the trail Fox Hollow preferred the use of aggregate. Joe stated that the City has
addressed this issue on many occasions and feels the trails should be asphalt, especially here with
an erosion possiblility. Palmquist stated that with wheel chairs, and this being an elderly complex
you need asphalt. Pike stated that they wanted a 4' width. Wywrot stated that is should be wider,
the City wants 5', and maybe more due to the entrance to commercial and to the Forest Preserves.
Norberg asked how they indemnify the liability to the complex from the outsiders coming in via
the trail. A discussion followed with Palmquist stating that along Route #71 the trail should be a
common area, and the private part could be screened by use of the pond as a demarcation line.
Then eliminate the path that connects it to the back. Plamquist recommends 8' for common area
and 5' on the interior paths. Norberg agrees to 8' on the front and 5' on interior paths, all asphalt.
Fairfield asks if path for emergency vehicles is adequate. Trott stated that a preliminary easement
plat will be given to Wywrot for review. Nanninga states dry detention is a question. Palmquist
stated that if it was aesthetic it would be OK. Pike stated that they will provide a drawing to
show detention alone, and they will try to do a 5'to 5 1/2' depth. Fairfield stated they haven't
seen anything on building height. Pike stated that he understood that if the eaves were under 25'
that would be acceptable to the BKFPD. Johnson asked if they had started the P.U.D. Grant
stated that he had just started it today, and asked if they would be grandfathered at the old fee of
$200., stating the new fees would be about $300,000., and the other impact fee of$175,000. and
hoped they could they work out a figure somewhere in between. Johnson stated he didn't see
how they could deviate from the fee. Palmquist stated they may be able to do something since it is
a P.U.D. Grant stated they would restrict the development to 65 and older so they would not
have any school age residents and didn't want to pay school fees. Nanninga stated only land cash
on school and parks since they have their own recreation facilities. Johnson stated he thought the
land had been annexed. A question is raised as to whether or not the land has been annexed or
not. It is possible that the City Council passed the annexation several years ago and it has never
been filed with the County. Grant will check with the County Assessors office to see if the
annexation was filed. Wywrot stated that they needed to get a copy from the Kendall County
Clear Water Conservation District regarding wetlands on the site. Trott stated that they didn't do
a determination, and are not saying whether they exist or not but, did say that if there are wetlands
on the site, they have no jurisdiction over them. Trott stated he has a letter from the USDA, but
their study was done right after the flood, and is probgably in accurate. Wywrot asked that Fox
Hollow check with the Army Core of Engineers on the issue of wetlands. Grant stated he will do
the zoning amenities. They will be back to Plan Council on 10/31/96.
ATTACHED FAMILY HOUSING
Nanninga stated that in reference to the Standards for attached single family homes there are some
items covered that may not fly. We cannot put owner occupied in the ordinance. But, the
developer can state that in their agreement. Palmquist will address a landscaping ordinance.
RETENSION/DETENSION IN FRONT YARDS
TELEPHONE/ELECT IN FRONT YARDS
Nanninga stated that Alderman Jones wanted something in writing regarding placement of
Telephone and Electricity not being allowed in the front yard. Utilities should always be in the
back. Johnson stated that every developer should submit street names in writing to City, prior to
approval so they can be checked with County so there will not be any duplications. Nanninga
stated that Streets should be a minimum of 28'with parking on 1 side only. Johnson stated we
should have a standard for private streets also. Palmquist asked if 24'with no parking would be
adequate for BKFPD. Fairfield stated that they didn't want to zig zag down the street. Johnson
stated that Fox Highlands will have plenty of room with the additional property to make the
private streets 28' in the town homes section. Nanninga stated he would call them and tell them
the City is setting 28' as a minimum. Johnson stated that any development with private roads
should have a special agreement with the Police and Fire Departments.
Adjourned at 12:15 pm
By:
San ra Marker
MEMO
To: Jim Nanninga, City Administrator
From: Joe Wywrot, City Engineer �--
Subject: Fox Mill Landing -Plan Review Comments
Date: October 15, 1996
I have reviewed the revised final plans for the referenced development which we received
yesterday, and have the following comments. The plans have been revised to show the entire
development.
1) An Engineer's Estimate of Construction Cost is needed once all requested revisions have been
made.
2) The plan scale is 1"=20', not 1"=30' as indicated. There are also several lengths of storm sewer
and sanitary sewer that don't agree with the dimensioned lengths indicated.
3) Barrier curb is proposed instead of combination curb and gutter. Is this acceptable?
4) The sanitary sewer in Phase 2 is only 4 feet from the building foundation. Relocate to be at
least 10 from the face of any building. Also, the proper locations for sanitary manholes on Mill
Street and SE of the brick building need to be shown.
5) Our ordinance requires two sources of water supply. The developer has proposed to complete
the loop if and when the elderly housing to the east is constructed.
6) PCC sidewalk is now shown along both sides of the frontage road. Is sidewalk on both sides
necessary or desirable? Perhaps sidewalk on the south side only would be adequate. Sidewalk
should be shown as being constructed across driveways.
7) The split-rail fence between the frontage road and RR tracks is now shown. A detail for the
fence needs to be added, similar to the detail we reviewed last week.
8) The Mill Street closure has been deleted from the project. Either the street will remain open,
or the City will close it at some future date.
9) A deeper, larger storm sewer to the river is now indicated on the plans as part of Phase 2
construction. I recommend that this storm sewer and portions along the future frontage road be
constructed as part of Phase 1 for the following reasons:
a) There are existing low areas and the RR ditch in front of Phase 1 that need to be
properly drained, which cannot be drained by the existing storm sewer.
b) By designating too much "offsite" construction to be borne by Phase 2, that phase
Jim Nanninga, City Administrator
Page 2
October 15, 1996
could become unprofitable, and therefore might never be built. Constructing the storm
sewer in Phase 1 will help to spread the burden more equally.
10) Individual water/sanitary services are now shown for the existing brick building. Remove the
note for the 2" water service.
11) Restore the hydrants that were shown in the previous version of plans off NMI Street and SE
of the brick building. Add a hydrant at the NE corner of the Phase 2 building.
12) What type of lighting will we require in the parking lot and along the private frontage road?
13) The frontage road width should remain uniform through it's entire length instead of narrowing
at the eastern end.
14) A profile needs to be established for the frontage road. Cross-sections need to be shown.
There needs to be a turn-around at the end of the road.
15) Is the storm sewer along the frontage road to be dedicated to the city? If so, I recommend
RCP pipe instead of the proposed PVC and ADS sewers.
16) There are some storm structure elevations missing. Also, a storm structure should be added to
drain the RR ditch.
17) A landscape plan has been submitted separately to Jeff'Palmquist. It should become part of
the approved plan set.
18) There needs to be a PUD agreement finalized prior to final plan approval.
This item is scheduled for Planning Council consideration on October 15, 1996.