Plan Council Minutes 1996 09-03-96 UNITED CITY OF THE VILLAGE OF YORKVILLE
Committee Minutes -Planing Council
Date of Meeting: September 3, 1996 Location: 111 W. Fox Street
Time Convened: 9:30 AM Time Adjourned: 11:05 AM
ATTENDEES
Wally Ahrens B.K.F.P.D.
Tim Fairfield B.K.F.P.D.
Joe Wywrot City of Yorkville
Jim Nanninga City of Yorkville
Jeff Palmquist Lannert Group
E. John Schumacher Siebert Engineering
Randy Metz Ives/Ryan Group
Dean A. Edmeier Edmeier Group
W.B. Dettmer City of Yorkville
Jim Olson James Olson& Assoc..
OLD BUSINESS
PC96-18 PRELIMINARY PLANNOX HIGHLANDS -Edmeier Group/Dean Edmeier
Dean: I'm here today to address and update some issues from last Planning Council. The issue of
detail for the town homes, and uninterrupted roadways, as well as the density of town homes and
throughout. Where we stand now is on this lone uninterrupted sequence of road, we have
redesigned the long road leading to a cul de sac, adding another intersection to bring road to
within the ordinance road length limits. Randy Metz of the Ryan Group will addressed these
issues. They will be changing the topo adding a bend and a wave in the road and small hill.
Dean: We think this will slow down this strip and traffic in that area. Other options are that we
could still add one additional intersection, or reposition the cross road that is supposed to
eventually access to Roppolo Development. We would re-plat to meet this road. Joe: There is
physically no pavement there. Dean: No nothing there now. Jeff. Related to this matter, is it
appropriate to have a cul de sac here, or should the cul de sac instead stub to the East, and in the
future be a right turn and access the development adjacent to that side? We really need to look at
an aerial photo of the area to line these roads up. Jim: Yes, Roppolo could move this stub road.
Jeff: I would like to see this question answered. Randy: I believe this is appropriate, road cuts
justify another cut to 71, that is better/more appropriate for emergencies, etc. Jeff. The idea is to
connect neighborhoods to create an interconnectedness without having to go out to Route 71,
and then enter another subdivision. To get to the golf or the trail, subdivisions should have
connecting roads. We know you are still working on this, but where it is possible, there should be
one connection to each adjacent development, one in each direction. Dean: Will look at it for
next round. These changes here have also produced some larger lots, they are spread out wider
than the normal 80' lot, and also some restructuring in the town home area, and retention area.
We have revised the area, incorporated the town house area with the tree survey, producing a
rough foot print. Here you can see the density is down, and trees form a natural barrier in line
with our concept to break areas by trees, berms, and grading to preserve trees. Plan on saving
any 10" or larger trees based on the survey. What will be done here is to replace what is lost with
new trees over in this open area, to create a private area. Randy: In the areas we have to dig we
are looking at saving 70 to 75% of the trees of 10" or better. This is from a tree survey of 10" or
better. Jeff: I would like to make some recommendations on that when we get down to the
specifics of the P.U. D. and see final engineering to make some kind of a tree preservation. Dean:
There is a foot print out from each building 15'. Jeff. Do the woods extend beyond the property
line? Dean: The woods do extend into the adjacent property owned by Gary Block. Dean: It
will be helpful to look at aerial photos once we get those put together. Jeff. It will show how
much you are encroaching. Dean: Hope to save old growth and also make it esthetically
pleasing. It is an integral part of this development that we get the proper number of units to make
it economically feasible. We can do everything we can to play with foot prints to save as much of
the old growth as we can, and what we can't save we can replace. Jeff. Will there be two private
roads in the town house area. Randy: Yes, two private drives going in 600'to the cul de sac, 24'
back to back with turn arounds at the outside radius, at either a 90 or 100' radius, which is a
typical cul de sac turn around. Both within 600' of the turnaround. Buildings are setback 25',
with 4 parking spaces per unit, final design will show sidewalk along one side of street ending at
the cul de sac. Then there is a dedicated road with sidewalks and garages. Jim: The standard
now is 2 car garages per unit. The City will want to look at this again since some one car garages
depending on the mix of residents will change the number of parking spaces per unit. What type
of resident are you targeting? Randy: Looking at empty nesters, some young singles. Dean:
The size allows for 2 car garages. Jim: Will these be 2 story with no basement? Dean: This
should not be an issue as at this time, as I don't think there will be any one car garages. Most of
what you will see is two story with a 1 story ranch at ends. Jim: No Condo units?, Randy:
Correct. Jim: This sidewalk on one side, wasn't it supposed to be a trail on the other side?
Randy: It is laid out in such a way that if need be we can put sidewalks on both sides. Jeff: With
25' off the curb are you proposing carriage walks. Jim: We really don't want carriage walks, and
we want a 30' set back for traffic visibility. Jim: We are just giving you thoughts now that will
come along later on, we're just presenting them now. Dean: For the Planning Commission on
9/11/96 we will show a preliminary run through with a break down of average lots. Jeff: We
will look at the grading and the criteria.... John: Its going to happen, a few trees are going to go.
Jeff. Yes, but I will argue for you if its going to save a few trees, perhaps even for a carriage
walk being appropriate if it saves 6 oak trees. Jim: And, Jeff and I will fight over it. Jeff. I'll
fight for the trees if the sidewalk has to move or the building moves up a little, in one particular
pocket, not the whole plan. Dean: Point being that its going to be identified if we are meeting
some of the criteria you spoke of that suddenly instead of 70%, we are saving 60% of the tree.
Jeff. There are areas where you can pull some buildings closer together and loosen up that center
area. Looks like there is some play in between buildings. Jeff. Are you coming back before
Planning Commission? Dean: On the 11th what we want to do, at the Planning Commission is to
show a preliminary run through with this re-designed, the questions we don't have answered
today, but probably will have by next Wednesday is the breakdown in square footage's of the
single family lots. We had mentioned an average of 12 to 25, minimums are 10 and gave a
percentage of lots under 12,000, as I mentioned we redesigned over the past week, this has
changes and other portions have changed. we want the preliminary feedback from the Planning
Commission on this as well as the redesign of the overall subdivision. Jeff. So, this is a first step
in a number of steps to get preliminary approval? Jeff. Did we get concept through? Jim:
Concept is through. Jeff: So now we are engaged in preliminary plan. Dean: Essentially,
Planning Commission will give more detail on the town homes, layout, density information for
town homes and others. John: There is an excess of storm water retention area, and once there
are IDOT permits the sewers will be addressed. Dean: Dan Kramer is working with ComEd to
obtain right-of-way on the City sewer issue. Edmeier will help by front funding the project
estimated at about 1.35 million, and will also fund the improvements needed for the Y.B.S.D
entailing $100,000. to $150,000. for the improvements, and John will be working with Ralph at
Y.B.S.D. to get an upgraded estimate. Also,just to update you on the sewer project, we are
waiting for the OK from ComEd to use their easement, we don't want to make them mad, once
we have that we will proceed with locations for soil borings, followed by the topo. Following the
sewer construction a gravel base will be left as the start of a trail to the river. After a preliminary
nod from ComEd we will be able to show an overall of where we are going, and present two
primary areas to the Planning Commission to get a little guidance there. We are now waiting on
estimates on expanding the chamber for the sanitary district, Deuchler will be coming up with
what we need, and the box will be replaced from Hydraulic to State, and the sewer will connect
to whatever they design, in the next week or so. We should be in a fairly good position to be very
definitive at next Plan Council of 9/17/96, and at that time I should be able to show the
breakdown of lot sizes. Jim: Will that include a backyard trail system that was to replace the
sidewalk? Dean: That issue, the cart trail, carriage walks goes hand in hand because of the space
issue, and will be included in some of the future detailed drawings as a flow of paths in the area.
At some time in the past it was thought these paths would be throughout the subdivision, but at
the last Planning Council it was cleared up that these will be in the townhome area only. There
are no plans for a cart path throughout the subdivision. The other issue is where to trail it over
the road to the course Jim: Will we see a rendering of the town homes, such as the brick or
stone fronts, steeper roof lines for anti monotony, decorative lighting. Dean: Joe has been
looking at globe lighting in line with what was discussed previously at City Council and
Commission. Jim: Where did the gained space come from? Randy: This side west of ComEd
easement was actually 50 feet further to the West than it actually is, as the preliminary drawings
were skewed, so we had gained more room in that area. There was no gain in size, only
repositioning that gave town homes more space. Dean: We will have an overall concept plan
drawing for next Planning Council, actual renderings will be last, you will have some of that, but
all of the features won't be able to see all of it till October. Randy: Rendered version of concept
plan, and then a rendered version of the overall site plan. And, we were going to do a detailed
plan of the entrance into the subdivision. Jim: Will you have the median at the entrance and
decorative lighting design? Dean: We will have a blown up version of this available. Do you
want me to leave copies today? I'm bringing back the stacks for mailing tomorrow, and I'll add
an extra 5 to the stack tomorrow.
PC96-13 FINAL PLAN/FOX MILL- The Development Group/Darren Sloniger
Joe: There are substantial changes in these plans from the last meeting, they have taken the front
driveway out entirely. Jim: Was that driveway supposed to be on the spur property? and they
have moved only this one drive, and they couldn't plat the 2nd because the 2nd townhome
building could possibly never be built, so we can only approve what is in order at this point. Joe:
Sewer was in the back and they have changed that. Jim: But, water was still going in the front.
That one hinges on the spur being removed and they can't do that until they own Robb Container.
Bill: It is pretty tight quarters to get everything in there. Jeff: We still need a landscape plan
showing a few trees, etc. Jim: So, you want to see a landscape plan, an exterior? Jeff: Yes. Jim:
Because, I'm going to call him and tell him what we need. Lighting plan, sidewalk plan we still
need that, which is this phase. Jeff: And we would recommend shade trees in the rear, and some
foundation planting. This should look nice from the river, if nothing is proposed I would not
approve. Joe: There is a dead-end hydrant here. Jeff. If that hydrant is only a few feet off the
building, its useless. Joe: It could be moved out closer to parking. Bill: Where are hydrants on
Mill St. Joe: Not good for this. Bill: I don't think that meets the NPA standard for fire hydrants.
Tim: Was he installing sprinklers in this building? Bill: Yes, we had talked about sprinklers, and
he has not come back with a plan. First builder was going to put in 13R sprinklers, residential
sprinklers. Joe: This drawing is too small. Jeff. Direct any questions or comments to Jim, so
we can acknowledge items remaining unresolved so the Plan Commission will know. Joe:
Handicapped parking? Bill: And it is probably 245'to the hydrant right there. Joe: Have zoning
and set-backs been granted? Jim: Zone, but set-back no. Jeff:: That is separate as part of the
P.U.D. Joe: So there is a separate P.U.D. for this property? Jeff. There should be. Joe: Have
you seen one? Jim: No. Jeff. The Planning Commission really doesn't want to see those issues.
They pass it along. Joe: Should City Council see that before the P.U.D. is worked over a couple
of times? Tim: What is the status of Mill Street? Joe: This shows road barricade, the road
closed 10' south of property. Jim N: That has to go to committee, its undecided. There are a
lot of unanswered questions, I don't know if this should go to Planning Commission. Joe: I'm
going to be pressed to get comments and a memo to you by today. I don't think even the EPA
would approve the sanitary sewers without a profile, and he has no profile in here, and what about
storm water retention, are we going to let this one slide for storm water retention or not, the
requirement is so minimal. Bill: Yes, this is a combination of existing structure and new
structure. Joe: I'm unfamiliar with anyone getting credit for anything. Jim: That is what I'm
used to from Aurora, but it really doesn't mean anything here, but Dan Kramer indicated that he
thought it was appropriate here too. We have told other developers that, and here it is minuscule,
but in exchange for that maybe he should be replacing some storm sewers for the park, and that
should be part of his plan, and Joe, that should be part of your area. Joe: Yes. I can recommend
forgetting the retention, but improving the drainage. Bill: Do we have water lines going down
Mill, and what size. Would we be in line to ask for a hydrant at the entrance. Joe: I would think
at least two. Bill: I would like them to have 1 hydrant at entrance and then one at the other end.
Jim N: What is the requirement? Jim: We will review and work with Bill. Joe: I would like to
try to get comments to Judy so she distribute in her packets, and I'll try to do that. So if we do
that then you can meet next week with his engineer. So we could let this go. Jeff: I think so, if
we are aggressive enough in getting our answers. Joe: There are some real fundamental issues
here that have not been addressed yet. Would the Planning Commission recommend approval
contingent upon making those things. There is no plat for easement, no landscape plan, then there
is the retention issue. Jim: Jim Olson is now here on behalf of Sloniger, and I think he may be
addressing these issues. Jim Olson: One building layout shows a two story building with a unit
on the lower level and one above it, so the property has to be put under provisions of the Illinois
Condominium Property Act, and under that law there is no plat that is recorded to create lots like
you would in a normal subdivision. There is a declaration that gets recorded that specifies what
the units are, and what's the common element, and what ownership rights that owners have, and
sets up the committee to run the condominium property, & part of that declaration will grant
various easements to utility companies and the City. I have given Jim some sample wording that
will appear in the declaration and it is granting a blanket easement over all of the common element
which is all of the property that is not within a unit. People own from wall to wall, and floor to
ceiling of their units and the rest is common. Driveways may be limited common element which is
specified to the use of one unit owner, a parking spot, or a garage spot. The grant is also to
ComEd and to NiGas. What they have given you to look at is a final plan that shows where the
buildings will be, and where the utilities are going to run. I have brought 35 copies of the copies
of the easement provisions, and stapling them to the plan indicates their intent to grant these
easements. Jim: That is OK for the Plan Commission, but in the end I would like it to be a part
of the plan, and not just stapled. Jim Olson: OK, sure. The actual work that we do is done after
the building is up, taking measurements and reporting what they are, and that is what becomes a
unit. Joe: As long as there is some written documentation or commitment that blanket easements
will be granted before a lot is sold. Bill: The point is that from my view, as condominiums, they
are not held up as condominiums until that declaration is recorded and they cannot occupy. Jeff:
That is right they can't. Bill: They can build the building, but until that declaration is recorded no
one can occupy it. Joe: That is a pretty strong motivation then for them to do that. Jim: OK,
then we will review this. Jim: I will call Mr. Sloniger and tell him to final up that engineering,
get a landscape plan to Jeff, before the meeting in two days. Joe: There are substantial plan
changes I need to review. Jeff. Before this goes to Planning Commission(a day or two) we
should have a detailed landscape design showing front & rear hedge treatments and foundation
plantings, a sidewalk plan, lighting plan and exterior.
PC96-04 FINAL PLAT CIMARRON RIDGE/GARY CONOVER
Jim: Have you got something on this Joe? Joe: Yes, I have to get a memo to Judy on that as
there are some remaining issues for the plat and the plan. The one issue is individual sump lines to
each home, and what we had talked about is, that they did dig a test hole and we shot the
elevation of the ground water. I told Tom Javorik that we just used an arbitrary number of 5',
and that if the ground water at that date was less than 5' on their proposed finished basement
elevation, we would require a sump pump line for that individual house or unit. He is proposing
sump lines for some of them and for some of them he is not. His proposed top foundation
elevations show a finished low elevation. I'm giving him a half foot slack, 4 1/2' is OK. Plans are
to say 4 1/2 feet, but he's down to 4' and in one area he's down to 3' - 3 3/4', so right now I'm just
planning to say 4 1/2' is as far as I'm willing to go, and tell him to put a sump pump line in, that's
it. Bill: You're talking about water, storm sewer? Joe: Yes, dedicated physical pipe. Bill:
Dedicated to a storm sewer? Joe: Running straight to a storm sewer. Bill: You're not just tying
it in like you would a sewer line, but out and then do a 90? Straight to the storm sewer. Jim: It's
required to connect to a storm sewer. Joe: I'll have a memo to Judy with final comments on
that. Bill: What about backing out onto the road. Joe: I remember seeing a note on the plat
prohibiting them from doing that. Jim: They have T turn arounds on all of them on John Street.
Joe: The storm sewer issue was approved in 1994, but has not been enforced.
These three are approved to go to Planning Commission with the above mentioned inclusions.
NEW BUSINESS : None
adjourned 11:05 AM