Fire and Police Commission Minutes 2001 09-10-01y
UNITED CITY OF YORKVILLE
FIRE & POLICE COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
Tuesday, September 10, 2001
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson called the meeting to order at 6:30 PM, and asked for roll call.
The recording secretary called the roll:
Chairman, Commissioner Bob Johnson Present
Commissioner Margie Putzler Present
Commissioner Jim Jensen Present
Chief Harold Martin Present
Others: City Attorney, Dean Kleronomous
A quorum was established.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated he would entertain a motion to table the minutes of
9/4/01 which were distributed tonight, to the next meeting so commissioners would have an
opportunity to review them.
Commissioner Putzler motioned and Mr. Jensen seconded to table approval of the minutes of
September 4, 2001 to the September 17, 2001. On a voice vote all members present voting yes.
Motion carried.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated that they should continue in establishing the rules and
regulations the Fire & Police Commission will operate by, beginning where the last meeting left
off.
Page 7. Chapter 1 Types of Examinations
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated this is for new Police Officers.
Chief Martin stated he spoke with the people the City of Yorkville currently uses and the cost is
approximately $100.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson asked if this covers everything except polygraph and eyes.
Chief Martin stated it doesn't include the psychological portion.
Commissioner Putzler asked who does the physical.
Chief Martin stated Dr. Hatcher does this. See Section 10 - Professional Examinations & Tests.
Add to this section
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d) Visual examinations shall be performed by a licensed optometrist or ophthalmologist. The
stress test is conditional to hire and will be offered subject to passing the test.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson asked if other area Departments do stress tests for hire.
Chief Martin stated perhaps Naperville, he was not sure.
Commissioner Putzler asked for clarification of"Pass - Fail".
Chief Martin stated this indicated the doctor will stated whether or not the applicant is capable of
doing the job or not.
Attorney Kleronomous asked if some tests are required.
Chief Martin stated that some are suggested by the Fire& Police Commission like a physical.
Each Department decides what they want to test for.
Commissioner Jensen stated that the Physical Agility test is 1 1/2 mile run.
Attorney Kleronomous stated he was concerned about the Pass/Fail on the stress test.
Commissioner Putzler asked if anyone else felt the stress test was over kill, continuing that funds
could be better spent elsewhere.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated it bothers him as a cost factor. $400. for someone who
is already hired.
Commissioner Jensen stated the hire is pending, based on this test.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson asked if after eligibility it is up to the department.
Chief Martin stated this started with new hires.
Commissioner Putzler asked if this was the Commissions issue.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated the test is after eligibility. The Commission needs to
determine what test they want.
Chief Martin stated this is a benefit for current officers.
Commissioner Putzler stated for our purposes, we should not do the stress test, but keep the rest.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated he was fine with this.
Commissioner Jensen agreed to take out the stress test.
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Mr. Jensen asked to return to item 3 for a moment.
SECTION 3 - Examinations
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated that from the examination minimum s only the
polygraph needs discussion.
Commissioner Jensen agreed that with the stress test removed all the rest looked good.
Commissioner Putzler asked what kind of written test is used.
Chief Martin stated they used a written test from Standard& Associates that covers police work,
police procedures, aptitude, reading, comprehension, and they do an in-house grading to save
money. Then it is sent in and they will score them.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson asked if the Commission would do the grading.
Chief Martin stated yes,that it costs $10. per test, if we grade. If they grade it is $20.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson asked if everyone agreed that the City of Yorkville should
have Orientation, Physical Aptitude Test(with Pass/Fail), and a written test with 65%written
and 35% Oral. plus a psychological. All agreed.
Attorney Kleronomous asked if they would interview.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated they would in the oral part of the test.
Commissioner Putzler stated she had done a little surveying on polygraph, with her sister who is
a police officer in Houston, and no one said it is a good thing.
Commissioner Jensen stated that Aurora does an extensive background check, while Oswego and
the City of Yorkville does maybe a two day check.
Commissioner Putzler stated it is easier to leave it in, than to add it at a later date.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated it should be left in to be used as a tool, and review it
annually. Once we have a track record on it.
Commissioner Jensen stated we should have a standard set of questions for the polygraph test re:
drugs use, etc.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson asked when the polygraph says inconclusive, how do you
score that.
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Commissioner Putzler stated the polygraph should be used as a tool, not a stand alone, let it
guide us to areas that need more research, or to be covered in other areas of testing, but to have a
look at how offices are writing reports too.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated polygraph should be part of the background testing.
Ms. Putzler agreed,
Chief Martin stated it should be pass/fail, but he is not a fan of polygraph. Everyone agreed they
are not in favor.
Commissioner Jensen asked for comfort level with polygraph, and pass/fail. There was no
definite answer.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson asked if we could research this section.
Attorney Kleronomous stated he would look to see what was available. If it passed muster as a
stand alone item, then as a part of tool.
Commissioner Putzler stated background.
Chief Martin stated anything on the application, credit , personal , past employment, neighbors,
family, criminal history, social security, fingerprints.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated the consensus is use the polygraph, but not alone, but
as a part of the background.
Commissioner Putzler asked if medical include a blood scan, and eye exam, before the initial
eligibility list.
Chief Martin stated no, that those were done after the initial eligibility list and after the oral test.
Commissioner Jensen asked if for instance could they test the top five.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated the Commission would prepare the final list too. As a
reference point, there is an additional 5 points for military, but on page 34 of the guidelines it
stated specific military during specific times of conflict.
Commissioner Jensen asked if we have to use military points, stating he has no problem with
that, but would also like to see education points.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson and Ms. Putzler stated they had no problem with this.
Chief Martin stated this cannot be cumulative.
Commissioner Jensen asked if you could use this more than one time.
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Chief Martin stated he would check, but he didn't think so. If used for hire it cannot be used for
promotion.
Commissioner Jensen felt it should be discretion of the commission.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated that preference points shall not be cumulative.
Mr. Jensen stated that upon the request of the applicant the most points with military, education
and law enforcement is a total of 5 points.
Commissioner Putzler stated the selected applicant is chosen from the top 3 from the eligibility
list.
SECTION 5 Original Appt/Physical Aptitude
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated that candidates who have participated will be permitted
to participate. Pass/fail.
Commissioner Jensen and Ms. Putzler both agreed it should b changed. All applicants shall
submit themselves to a valid and job related physical aptitude test which shall be graded on a
pass/fail basis.
Commissioner Putzler stated that for weight lifting age 20 to 29 it is 98%of their weight for men
and for women of the same age group it is 58% of their weight.
Commissioner Jensen stated that orientation for Villa Park is great. Page 10 section A. May be
a little too detailed, but we need something.
The question was raised on how to handle someone missing the orientation portion.
Chief Martin stated that when something out of the ordinary arises there should be consideration.
Commissioner Jensen stated there are a lot of good reasons for missing, and a lot of bogus ones
also.
Chief Martin stated that some people would not be truthful also.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated you could be in a position of considering this situation
on every aspect of the test too.
Commissioner Jensen stated that Oswego has Orientation mandatory on the same day as the
Physical agility. This solves the problem. If they miss they are out till the next hire.
Commissioner Putzler asked how many were expected to be hired on the first hire.
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Chief Martin stated this will be different now, as in the past Yorkville has only hired officers
with experience.
SECTION 5 Orientation
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated this should read as follows: Orientation. All applicants
shall attend the original orientation, those failing to do so shall be disqualified from further
consideration. Discussion strongly suggests orientation be the same day as the Physical Agility
test to avoid any further complications due to failure to attend.
SECTION 6 Physical Aptitude
All applicants on a pass/fail. This section shall be taken from the Villa Park sample, page 10,
Letter C.
SECTION 7 Written Examinations
Commissioner Putzler suggested that as a consideration about the budget they do the grading.
Commissioner Jensen stated that down he road it will be time consuming.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated they could decide each time whether they will do
grading or not. Finance may be an issue.
Chief Martin stated that if we do the tests ourselves, before the Fire & Police would do the
grading. We can have Standard& Associates do the grading.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated that gives us a solid foundation.
Commissioner Jensen stated we are saving $400. by not doing the stress tests.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated that Vila Park has some exact wording.
Chief Martin stated giving the Commission the latitude to do it or have a company do the
grading.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson asked Chief Martin to get a legal opinion on this.
SECTION 8 - Oral Exams
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson we would need a standardized oral exam.
Commissioner Jensen stated that it should include all Commissioners and the Chief(or his
designee).
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Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated that all Commissioners should take an active part in
this.
Commissioner Putzler asked how important participation is to him.
Chief Martin stated he has always been involved, so he is comfortable, but he understands, and
as long as he can't score it would be nice to have input.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated he didn't think it was detrimental as long as you have a
strong commission. We need to be careful about this decision as the Fire & Police are to
represent. The Chief can have some input, but he has seen some Chiefs who run the commission.
The are for Citizen oversight. But, we can try and see how it goes for a time.
Chief Martin stated we can run this past the labor attorney or Attorney Kramer to be sure, we
aren't doing anything we shouldn't..
Commissioner Jensen stated he would check with Oswego too.
Commissioner Putzler stated she would fax a question to Attorney Kleronomous.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated other than this question it is OK as written.
SECTION 8 WHICH BECOMES 9 Initial Eligibility Register
Commissioner Jensen stated to take out(if any) on line 2, it is not needed.
Commissioner Putzler stated in section a) Preference Point, do we need to stated?
Commissioner Jensen stated that for B), At the end of section b), add "The initial eligibility
requirements shall also be posted at the Police Department, and City Hall. All agreed with this.
SECTION 9/BECOMES 10
b) Add same sentence as in#9
d) Take out polygraph test.
Commissioner Putzler stated we must hire by 35 so as to be able to complete testing by 35.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated they must be under 35 at the time of completing the
testing process.
Commissioner Putzler stated c) should stand as it is.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated that d)polygraph should be out, it will be part of the
background.
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SECTION 10/TO BE 11 PROFESSIONAL EXAMINATION
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson asked if perhaps we should leave the polygraph here.
Commissioner Putzler stated the sample from Villa Park is good. We could change Part B from
Section 11 to the verbiage from Villa Park(see page 12, section 7), headed Finger Print Check,
Background Check, Investigation& Polygraph test. For Section 10/to be 11 replace with "Each
candidate shall cooperate fully and completely with each and every investigative examining
entity".
c) Medical Exam - All agreed this is OK as is, in d) from Rules & Regulations for City of
Yorkville.
d)Visual examinations shall be performed by a licensed Optometrist or Ophthalmologist.
SECTION 11/TO BE 12 PROBATIONARY APPOINTMENT
Change Section 9c to 10c.
Commissioner Jensen stated that probation should be as follows:
b) City of Yorkville states 12 months per employee manual.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated that c)the Chief will check on whether or not to strike
after the second decline.
d) Should be as is, per the Employee Manual.
SECTION 12/TO BE 13 CERTIFICATION
A. OK
B. Wait for legal decision on Rules for non-existent Fire Department.
Chairman, Commissioner Johnson stated the next meeting will be Monday, September 24, 2001
at 6:30 P.M., and that he would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Chief Martin stated that the Commissioners can select any letterhead that they want.
Commissioner Jensen motioned and Commissioner Putzler seconded to adjourn. On a voice vote
all members present voting yes. Motion carried.
Meeting Adjourned at 9:15 P.M.
Minutes By Sandy Marker
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