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Plan Commission Minutes 2008 06-11-08 Page 1 of 5 I APPROVED 8/13/08 � UNITED CITY OF YORKVILLE PLAN COMMISSION YORKVILLE CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:00pm Chairman Anne Lucietto called the meeting to order at 7:02pm. Roll Call: Sandra Adams Brian Schillinger Jeff Baker Tom Lindblom Michael Crouch Anne Lucietto Absent: Charles Kraupner, Jack Jones, Clarence Holdiman Other Citv Staff: Travis Miller, Community Development Director Stephanie Boettcher Guests: Bill Dunn, EEI Attorney Dan Kramer Harold Oliver, HRM Attorney Gregg Ingemunson Lynn Dubajic, YEDC Terry Maier, Cross Lutheran Church Judith Vant Ray Skeen Pat Skeen Nancy Danforth Ken Griesmann Roxane Griesmann Brent Wadsworth Jean Wadsworth Arthur Crawford Kyle Price Martha Price Sandra Henne Verne Henne Rhonda Miller Loren Miller Marion Bazan Joanne Vitek Bob Clack Paul Von Holten Art Prochaska Audrey Orton Wade Joyner Lynnette Neal, Depo Court Matt Schury, Kendall County Record Jim Koziol, Engineer Roll call was taken and a quorum was established. Chairman Lucietto swore in those attendees who would speak during the Public Hearings. Page 2 of 5 Public Hearings: 1. PC 2008 -11 HRM Properties filed an application requesting an amendment to the Planned United Development Agreement. The property consists of 6.14 acres, located at the northeast corner of Cannonball Trail and US Route 34. A motion was made by Crouch and seconded by Adams to enter into Public Hearing. Passed on a unanimous voice vote. Attorney Dan Kramer was present on behalf of the petitioner. (See court reporter's transcripts of Public Hearing) A motion to close the Hearing was made and seconded by Lindblom and Schillinger respectively. Unanimous voice vote. Discussion: This petition is requesting a possible gas station and drive- thru's, and a daycare is already in the agreement. The location is the corner of Rt. 34 and Cannonball Trail. Lindblom commented that this agreement had been in place for 20 years and wondered why this project was proposed now. Kramer explained that in every annexation agreement, 20 years is the maximum time and the zoning remains in effect. The water detention was also discussed and it was noted that it was only half of the needed amount, but the other half could be accomplished underground according to Bill Dunn of EEI. An explanation was given on the mechanics of underground detention. It was noted that the runoff would eventually flow to Blackberry Creek. Several Board members said they would not support a gas station at this location. They felt that Blackberry Creek needed to be protected from such runoffs. Crouch added the nearby residents have already been subjected to many changes that they did not approve. The Commissioners said they were OK with the drive - thru's and the daycare. The five criteria were also reviewed in regards to the zoning. Action Item: Amendment to the Planned Unit Development A motion was made by Lindblom and seconded by Crouch to recommend to the City Council, that the amendments as presented be approved. A roll call vote was taken: Adams -nay; Schillinger -nay; Baker -nay; Lindblom -nay; Crouch -nay; Lucietto -nay The motion failed unanimously. Page 3 of 5 2. PC 2008 -13 Cross Evangelical Lutheran Church filed an application requesting annexation and zoning from Kendall County A -1 farm special use PUD allowing for uses within R -1 and B -3. The real property consists of 25 acres located at 7481 Mill Road, Oswego. Adams moved and Baker seconded to open the Public Hearing. Unanimous voice vote. Wade Joyner, attorney represented the petitioner. (See Court Reporter's transcript) A motion to close the Hearing was made by Crouch and seconded by Lindblom. Unanimous voice vote of approval. Discussion: Lucietto asked why the petitioner had asked for B -3 zoning. It is due to adjoining property having the same zoning. The B -3 zoning was requested in the event the church wished to sell to an adjacent developer. Schillinger and Crouch expressed concern about this zoning. Several of the Commission members said they approved of the daycare expansion plan for Loving Arms. Miller presented a detailed staff report for this petition. Action Items: Annexation Crouch moved and Baker seconded to approve the annexation request. A roll call vote was taken: Baker -aye; Lindblom -aye; Crouch -aye; Adams -aye; Schillinger -aye; Lucietto -aye. Passed unanimously. Zoning A motion was made by Crouch and seconded by Lindblom to approve the A -1 special farm use to R -1 PUD and B -3 Service Business District subject to staff comments. Roll call vote: Schillinger -nay; Baker -aye; Lindblom -aye; Crouch -aye; Adams -nay; Lucietto -aye. Motion passed 4 -2. New Business: 3. PC 2008 -12 Anthony and Nicole Zangler filed an application requesting a preliminary plan and final plat for a 2 -lot subdivision. The property consists of 5.7 acres and is located at 96 Quinsey Lane. Attorney Gregg Ingemunson asked for a plat approval for this request. He said that one lot would be buildable while the other is not. Page 4of5 Miller presented the staff report and he noted that the property in question is not in the City limits. Since the parcel is 5 acres, one of the requirements of YBSD is that it be annexed and this would be cost - prohibitive for the owner. Miller said YBSD is OK if the property is divided. He also discussed the extension of the sanitary system, water lines and easements. He concluded by saying that staff recommends approval of the preliminary and final plat subject to the inclusion of an easement for a sanitary sewer extension. Ingemunson said his client feels he should be compensated for the reduced easement. Action Items: Preliminary Plan Lindblom made a motion to recommend approval to City Council of the preliminary plan. Adams seconded the motion and roll call vote was taken: Baker -aye; Lindblom -aye; Crouch -aye; Adams -aye; Schillinger -aye; Lucietto -aye. Passed unanimously. Final Plat Lindblom and Crouch moved and seconded respectively to recommend approval of the final plat subject to staff comments. Roll call vote: Lindblom -aye; Crouch -aye; Adams -aye; Schillinger -aye; Baker -aye; Lucietto -aye. Passed unanimously. 4. Jason Poppen, Tom Zanck, Bob Wegener, petitioners, have filed an application requesting a preliminary plan and final plat for a 2 -lot subdivision. The property consists of 2.88 acres, located at 651 Prairie Pointe Drive, Yorkville. Jason Poppen said he is seeking approval of a preliminary plan and final plat for a proposed daycare facility on the site. There were some challenges with the parking lot concerning ingress /egress since there are 2 lots involved. To reach lot 2, a driver must cross lot 1. Crouch expressed concern for this saying it could set a precedent. I Lucietto asked the reason for this type of access and Poppen replied it is an ownership issue and because it is an odd - shaped development. Action Items: Preliminary Plan Crouch made a motion to approve the preliminary plan with a second by Lindblom. Roll call vote: Crouch -nay; Adams -aye; Schillinger -aye; Baker -aye; Lindblom -aye; Lucietto -aye Motion passed 5 -1. Final Plat Schillinger moved and Crouch seconded to approve the final plat. Roll call vote: Crouch -nay; Adams -aye; Schillinger -aye; Baker -aye; Lindblom -aye; Lucietto -aye. Motion passed 5 -l. Page 5 of 5 5. PC 2008 -17 United City of Yorkville, petitioner, filed an application requesting a preliminary plan and fmal plat. The property consists of 3.540 acres located at 185 Wolf Street, Yorkville. Miller summarized the request and said the City is pursuing acquisition of this land for a Public Works facility. It is located in the Fox Industrial Park. There are currently 2 buildings on the property: a 6 -unit condo building and the other building is where the City would house the operations. He said the staff recommends approval. Action Items: Preliminary Plan A motion was made by Crouch and seconded by Adams for preliminary plan approval. Roll call vote: Adams -aye; Schillinger -aye; Baker -aye; Lindblom -aye; Crouch -aye; Lucietto -aye. Unanimous approval of motion. i Final Plat It was moved by Schillinger and seconded by Crouch to approve the final plat. Roll call: Adams -aye; Schillinger; Baker -aye; Lindblom -aye; Crouch -aye; Lucietto -aye. Unanimous approval. Additional Business: Chairman Lucietto said she had given a Consortium update to the City Council the previous night. She also invited them to the Comprehensive Plan open house on June 19 In July, the Plan will be discussed and she hopes to send the final plan to the City Council in August. The next plan consortium is July 24 at 7pm. Big Rock will be hosting this event and school funding will be discussed. Lynn Dubajic said the water park opens June 21 st and Target opens July 27 There was no further business and a motion was made by Lindblom and seconded by Crouch to adjourn the meeting. Unanimous voice vote. Meeting adjourned at 9:45pm Minutes by Marlys Young Minute Taker `��o corgi a United City of Yorkville 800 Game Farm Road T. 1836 Yorkville, Illinois 60560 Telephone: 630 -553 -4350 o Fax: 630 -553 -7575 Co� PLEASE SIGN IN nn MEETING: P r n �--v�, •►-�, DATE: NAME COMPANY PHONE NUMBER �&�A(kN NAW'r Yoe uivl- IT MA (2r, r C4�� 5 ��.�') 558 -5 U 510 ?-719 gi United City of Yorkville �' 800 Game Farm Road T. 1836 Yorkville, Illinois 60560 Telephone: 630 -553 -4350 o a co Fax: 630 -553 -7575 PLEASE SIGN IN MEETING: 1�" I 6� n (. DATE: ittm I 2 0 c) , NAME COMPANY G d PHONE NUMBER 3d 5 ' ,� 7 Uld 3 �S �� 3 y P° (3,V s/ L Gt k. ( 1Z (o o � o 1U3 (� d - S r � 3 _ ��o 1 0't-je v,, c 1 � 3q P'0. 80>(.5/ u -Q& Co o 9, o (0130 %" ��,cliG -� • �d'&cm raw VDU I i5 4z J�� ,, CZ CA-1A.11 W� 4L3 : pau lay - /,3,9 ss 3 z - 7 - 7 �! - �� Q,,V ,DSO '`� Oy4er L /a w. ��lP,., �� �,.. 636 9'7 o 90c) UNITED CITY OF YORKVILLE, ILLINOIS MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS taken at the meeting of the Yorkville Plan Commission for the United City of Yorkville, taken on June 11, 2008, at the hour of 7:00 p.m., before Lynette J. Neal, C.S.R., at Yorkville City Hall, Yorkville, Illinois. LL� D- 849208 REPO • COURT reporting service DUPAGE COUNTY KANE COUNTY 1212 S. Naper Blvd., Ste. 119 -185 630 - 983 -0030 • Fax 630 - 907 -9710 1051 Ketel Ave. Naperville, IL 60540 Email: depocourt@comcast.net North Aurora, IL 60542 2 1 PRESENT: 2 MS. ANNE LUCIETTO, Chairman, 3 MS. SANDRA ADAMS, 4 MR. JEFF BAKER, 5 MR. MICHAEL CROUCH, 6 MR. BRIAN SCHILLINGER, 7 MR. TOM LINDBLOM, 8 MR. TRAVIS MILLER, 9 MS. MARLYS YOUNG. 10 - - - 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 3 1 (Whereupon a portion of the 2 hearing was had but not herein 3 transcribed.) 4 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Public hearing PC 07:O1PM 5 2008 dash 11 now open. Can we have the 6 petitioners, please? For the record, I will read 7 the description. HRM Properties & Development, 8 LLC, has filed an application with the United City 9 of Yorkville, Kendall County, Illinois, requesting 07:01PM 10 an amendment to the planned unit development 11 agreement. The real property consists of 6.14 12 acres located at the northeast corner of 13 Cannonball Trail and US Route 34, Bristol 14 Township, Kendall County, Illinois 60560. Dan? 07:01PM 15 MR. KRAMER : Thank you. For the record, 16 my name is Daniel J. Kramer. My address is 1107A 17 South Bridge Street, Yorkville, Illinois. I am an 18 attorney licensed to practice law in the state of 19 Illinois and I represent the petitioners in this 07:O1PM 20 action. 21 We would like you to take into 22 account for the record purposes tonight the 23 application for the modification of the PUD as 24 Exhibit 1, our color drawing of the landscape DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 4 1 rendering as Petitioner's Exhibit No. 2 behind me, 2 and then we have folders with reduced drawings 3 that we would like to pass out, color renderings 4 that we will give you as well, if I can have 07:02PM 5 Harold pass those out. And then the final piece 6 we have with the folders is we would ask be 7 considered as Joint Petitioner's Exhibit 3 with 8 the folders you have is the curriculum vitae of 9 one of the witnesses we are going to have present 07:02PM 10 some evidence tonight so that you have got that 11 for your records. 12 Basically this property has been 13 annexed and zoned in the City already under a 14 planned unit development agreement and the 07:03PM 15 petitioner is asking to amend the planned unit 16 development agreement. Since the time the 17 original agreement was prepared, the City now has 18 an overall zoning class that they call PUD, so we 19 are just trying to clean up and suggesting that it 07:03PM 20 should now be under that zoning class. 21 The primary changes, besides the 22 minor cleanup items that are attached to the 23 petition to modify the special use and PUD, is at 24 the north edge of the property -- and the DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 5 1 landscape drawing shows it as well with the 2 detailed site plan that you have in the packet -- 3 is that originally with the property across the 4 street to the west of Cannonball, you can see 07:03PM 5 there is a major access to the shopping center on 6 the west side. Normally you would like to line up 7 entrances to our property on the same access as 8 that. 9 However, as you see, if we lined up 07:03PM 10 with that same access the way it is tilted, it 11 would involve us encroaching on the property of 12 our neighbors to the north and one of the main 13 features of the original planned unit development 14 agreement was maintaining some type buffer 07:04PM 15 there. So what our planning staff has done in 16 consultation with the City is moved our major 17 entrance to the south of that location and we 18 maintain the buffering to the north on the use 19 that we propose for Lot 4. 07:04PM 20 Now, again, we are seeking a 21 modification of the original PUD agreement, which 22 said that there would be a 400 -foot buffer at the 23 north edge of the property. If you had that 400 24 feet, it sounds good but it wouldn't be meaningful DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 6 1 if you had the major entrance to the development 2 separating that residential user to the north of 3 this property. 4 Here the proposed end -user for 07:04PM 5 Lot 4 is a day -care center, which would have the 6 front of the building oriented towards the south, 7 all the parking and the pickup area would be 8 oriented to the south, and the rear of the 9 property where we would adjoin a residential use 07:05PM 10 is all green area, yard area, setback, and 11 detention. So we try and maintain a nice buffer 12 there. 13 The other major change in the 14 planned unit development agreement that we propose 07:05PM 15 is asking for a modification of the permitted uses 16 in the agreement to allow a gas station, service 17 station, on what we are proposing as Lot 1 of the 18 agreement itself. 19 Back when the PUD agreement was 07:O5PM 20 passed in 2000, this was a mixed -use area. You 21 had a lot of farming. That area to the west was 22 totally agricultural. The courthouse was a much 23 smaller operation. You didn't have commercial 24 development on the southeast quadrant of that DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 7 1 intersection. You didn't have the intense use 2 that the courthouse now has and the commercial 3 development on the southwest quadrant of the 4 intersection of Cannonball and Route 34, and you 07:06PM 5 certainly didn't have Yorkville Marketplace. Now, 6 in fact, the world has really substantially 7 changed out there and this has become a major 8 commercial corridor. 9 The property that we propose for 07:06PM 10 the gas station is in the area that has the most 11 traffic and the most commercial development 12 oriented on that intersection. So we plan for 13 entrances for use on the service station closer to 14 Route 34. You can see there is a main entrance on 07:06PM 15 Cannonball just to the north edge of Lot 1, and 16 then there is a right -in /right -out, which would be 17 our only access cut on Route 34 right at the 18 border of Lot 1, which would serve again for the 19 benefit of the entire center. 07:06PM 20 In terms of the development of the 21 gas station, I would like, if I could, to have 22 Marian Long come up and offer a few thoughts on 23 how we would install tanks and so on, if I may? 24 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: You said there was a DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 8 1 CV in the packet. I don't see one. 2 MR. KRAMER: I didn't say CV, I just 3 said small drawings. 4 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: You said curriculum 07:07PM 5 vitae. 6 MR. KRAMER: There should be her 7 customer list right inside here. 8 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Okay. I was looking 9 for something else. 07: 07PM 10 MR. KRAMER: Okay. So if I may have her 11 come up with your permission? 12 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Absolutely. 13 MR. KRAMER: Marian, would you come up, 14 please? 07: 07PM 15 MS. LONG: Sure. 16 MS. MARIAN LONG, 17 was interrogated by MR. KRAMER, and in response to 18 the questions asked gave the following answers: 19 BY MR. KRAMER: 07:07PM 20 Q. Marian, would you state your name and 21 address and what business you operate, please. 22 A. My name is Marian Long and I am 23 president an owner of a manufacturers 24 representative agency that sells petroleum storage DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 9 1 and handling systems and I have owned this company 2 and been in this business for 22 years. And my 3 office address is 25 South Washington, Naperville, 4 Illinois. 07:08PM 5 Q. Marian, you have looked at the proposed 6 site for this service station, have you not? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. What type of tanks would be installed 9 for use on that particular site, if you could, 07:08PM 10 please. 11 A. Well, they would be double - walled tanks. 12 The State of Illinois passed a law on 13 February 1st, 2008 that all underground storage 14 tanks should be double -wall. And the tanks that 07:08PM 15 are going on this site will be double - contained or 16 double -wall fiberglass tanks. 17 Q. Marian, what type of monitoring takes 18 place as far as those tanks to ensure no leakage 19 or no off -site migration of petroleum products? 07:08PM 20 A. Well, the first monitoring or secondary 21 containment is the fact that the tanks are 22 double - walled, so there is a primary tank and then 23 there is a secondary tank with a small intersect 24 between the two walls so that if there would be a De oCourt Reporting Service - p p g vice (630) 983 0030 i i 10 1 breach in the primary -- which is extremely 2 require these days -- that it would be contained 3 in the interstitial space between the primary and 4 secondary walls. But in addition to those 07:09PM 5 requirements for double -wall tanks, the federal 6 government passed a regulation on December 22nd, 7 1988 under CFR 280 that required that all 8 underground tanks have electronic tank monitoring 9 in them that requires that the tank be monitored 07:09PM 10 on a continuous basis to detect two gallons per 11 hour leak rate every day and once a year each 12 station owner has to perform through the 13 methodology of the electronic tank gauging 14 one -tenth of a gallon per hour leak Keep 07:09PM 15 those results on the site at all times available 16 for all the inspectors that would come in and 17 check out their leak records. 18 Q. Marian, with respect to the 19 installation of the tanks, is an owner or a 07:09PM 20 contractor permitted just to go out and install 21 them or does that work constantly get monitored 22 while the installation takes place. 23 A. Well, first of all, in the beginning of 24 the process there has to be a permit that's filed DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 11 i 1 and -- with the state of Illinois and with I'm 2 assuming the local ordinances. But then the State 3 of Illinois will not allow or any installation of I 4 any fuel system at all, whether it is private or 07 ;1OPM 5 retail fleets, without a certified installer, 6 someone who has been trained passing tests for the 7 state and also by all the manufacturers of the 8 products that they are installing at the site. So 9 they have to be trained and certified. 07:10PM 10 Q. Marian, the type of tank that would be 11 installed at the site, I notice in your firm's 12 perspective you show a portable water tank that's 13 installed in the national forest. What relation 14 does that have to this type of tank? - 07:1OPM 15 A. Well, I understand that historically 16 there has been a lot of concerns about putting in 17 any type of underground storage systems that 18 contain hazardous substances such as fuel, and 19 since the technology has evolved so much as a 07:11PM 20 result of the federal regulations, that there are 21 really no potential for leaks whatsoever in the 22 systems. But I put this in the brochures because 23 I felt it was important to understand that in a 24 single -wall tank the federal -- the Forest DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 12 1 Preserves and the federal governments are using 2 this to contain drinking water. And you might 3 wonder why would anybody be concerned about 4 drinking water leaking into the groundwater. 07:11PM 5 That's not the issue. The issue is that these 6 tanks are tested to 11- and -a -half inches of 7 mercury vacuum and pressure tested. So their 8 structural integrity is such that there will be no 9 breach in the tank wall whatsoever and that there 07:11PM 10 will be no opportunity of any ingress of any 11 foreign chemicals or anything into the groundwater 12 to come into the tank. It is perfectly safe 13 drinking the water in the single -wall fiberglass 14 tank. 07:11PM 15 Q. I also notice with regard to your list 16 of customers that your firm represents, it is not 17 just the traditional gas sales company or 18 wholesalers, but I notice a whole list of grocery 19 store retailers as well. 07:12PM 20 A. Absolutely. 21 Q. It is common knowledge that grocery 22 stores have now gotten into the fuel sales 23 business, have they not? 24 A. Yes. Almost all of the major chains DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 13 1 have done that. Albertson's, which is Jewel in 2 our area, Super Value owns them, and Kroger and 3 Safeway, which is Dominick's here in the Chicago 4 area, Meijer, Walmart. Every single big -box 07:12PM 5 retailer basically has got fuel in them. 6 Q. And, again, from both your experience as 7 a professional and just as a layperson even 8 driving here tonight on Route 34 or Route 59, do i 9 you see these types of fuel installations in the 07:12PM 10 grocery stores adjacent to residential neighbors? 11 A. Sure, they are all over. Meijer, Sam's 12 Club, Walmart's, wherever they are at, Jewel, they 13 are always situated for obvious reasons in 14 residential areas to have easy access for 07:13PM 15 customers to grocery shop and purchase fuel. 16 Q. Thank you. With respect to traffic that 17 uses the gas station, would you classify a gas 18 station as a destination stop or is it something 19 that existing traffic, ambient traffic, that's 07:13PM 20 driving buy uses the facility and stops in? 21 A. I guess it would depend on the type of 22 C -store that's put there, sometimes they are 23 considered destinations. If they have a big 24 enough floor plan and lots of food offerings, but DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 14 1 I think the answer would be both, because it draws 2 new people into the area for new business and then 3 it also takes care of people that are just passing 4 by. 07:13PM 5 Q. okay. And primarily when it is a 6 destination, that would be the bigger ones, the 7 Meijer's, the Albertson's, not the simple gas 8 station with the C- store. 9 A. Exactly. It depends on the food 07:14PM 10 offerings. 11 Q. And, again, in terms of the construction 12 or design of the gas stations, what efforts are 13 taken as far as lighting to protect interference 14 with neighboring use of property enjoyment and 07:14PM 15 value? 16 A. Well, there is several technologies in 17 the lighting area right now that actually end up 18 focusing the lights on the dispensers and also 19 what they call down - lighting that will light the 07:14PM 20 perimeters to the edge of the canopy or the edge 21 of the actual site. Normally what happens to be 22 able to assure the fact that there is no 23 bleed -over into the residential areas, that the 24 lighting manufacturer will do what they call DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 15 1 photometric studies and submit that to the 2 architect and have it approved by the City. 3 MR. KRAMER: Thank you. I don't have 4 any further questions, Madam Chairman. I'll have 07:14PM 5 her available for any questions that you have. 6 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: That's fine. 7 MR. KRAMER: Jim, could you come up, 8 please? 9 MR. JIM KOZIOL, 07:14PM 10 was interrogated by MR. KRAMER, and in response to 11 the questions asked gave the following answers: 12 BY MR. KRAMER: 13 Q. State your name and address for the 14 record, please. 07:15PM 15 A. James Koziol, 1709 Ogden Avenue, Lisle 16 Illinois. 17 Q. And, Mr. Koziol, in what profession are 18 you engaged? 19 A. Civil engineering. 07:15PM 20 Q. Are you also an architect by trade? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Mr. Koziol, you have helped lay out the 23 design for this particular parcel, have you not? 24 A. Yes. DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 16 1 Q. Mr. Koziol, isn't it true that with 2 respect to the original planned unit development 3 agreement that was passed by the City, it would 4 permit any developer of this property to develop 07:15PM 5 it pursuant to the City ordinances that existed 6 back in 2000? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And, in fact, what you have done and 9 arranged for the landscape architect to prepare 07:15PM 10 the landscaping here as well as your compliance 11 with stormwater runoff and so on, you have not 12 gone back to the 2000 ordinances but you have done 13 it according to the current City ordinances; is 14 that correct? 07:15PM 15 A. Yes, that's true. 16 Q. And would it be fair to say that those 17 ordinances both in landscaping, drainage design, 18 and so on, are much stricter than what were in 19 effect in the year 2000? 07:16PM 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Now, with respect to the engineering 22 recommendations that were made with staff, you 23 virtually have made all but one change that was 24 recommended by staff, have you not? DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 17 1 A. That's correct. 2 Q. And could you show the members of the 3 plan commission the one change that staff had 4 recommended that you have not made and the reason 07:16PM 5 you have not altered it, please. I 6 A. The only change is at this entrance 7 right here, the staff was recommending that this 8 be a right turn only and we still have a pork chop 9 here that shows the ability to -- you know, to 07:16PM 10 exit out this way and make a right turn. It is a 11 painted island so there was some question still if 12 someone could make a left turn at that location. 13 And our thinking on that is that in 14 case a truck were to pull in and to.make this 07:16PM 15 turn, we wanted to leave that open to allow 16 that -- you know, that flow to drive through. We 17 don't want to get to a point where a truck ends up 18 here and is trying to make this turn and then 19 stops. We are open to putting in not -an -exit 07:17PM 20 signs, do- not -enter signs, to try and sway people 21 from going out that way. 22 Q. And as the engineer and architect 23 overall for the project with the respect to the 24 location of each of the proposed four buildings on DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 18 1 the site, you will submit a photometric study as 2 far as showing no bleed -off greater than .210 3 candles at lot line; is that correct? 4 A. Absolutely. 07:17PM 5 Q. And, again, with the parameter of I 6 landscaping, you have taken great care around the 7 north and east of the property where you have 8 either agricultural uses to the east or 9 residential uses to the north to keep good 07:17PM 10 screening and to comply with the current City 11 landscape ordinance. 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And, again, along Route 34, although 14 that's a heavily traveled commercial. boulevard, 07:17PM 15 again you show a substantial setback in compliance 16 with the City landscaping requirements there as 17 well. 18 A. That's correct. 19 Q. All right, thank you. 07:18PM 20 MR. KRAMER : Madam Chairman, I don't 21 have any other questions at this point. And if 22 any of the public wishes to testify, we will have 23 our witnesses here to answer any questions that 24 they might have. DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 19 1 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: I would like to 2 clarify, because there is so many people here for 3 this, what the procedure is. I have two letters 4 and I'm going to read them into the public hearing 07:18PM 5 record, and then anyone of the public here is 6 welcome to speak. I would ask that you don't 7 repeat what's already been said, otherwise we will 8 spend the entire night going through this, and I 9 would like to state what the issues are and deal 07:18PM 10 with them. 11 Once you guys are done, we will go 12 out of public hearing, and then the plan 13 commission will ask the questions and have a 14 discussion and make our recommendation. 07: 18PM 15 MR. KRAMER : And we obviously get a 16 chance to respond. 17 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Absolutely. 18 MR. KRAMER: Thank you. 19 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Okay. The first 07:19PM 20 letter we received is dated June is 11, 2008 21 addressed to the City of Yorkville Plan 22 Commission, 800 Game Farm Road, Yorkville, 23 Illinois 60560. 24 To whom it may concern, we are DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 20 1 writin g to you because of concerns we have over I i 2 the proposed site plan amendment for the property 3 located at the northeast corner of the 4 intersection at Route 34 and Cannonball Trail in 07:19PM 5 Yorkville. Due to familial commitments tonight we 6 are unable to attend the meeting. Please accept 7 our apologies. 8 Based on the information received 9 via United States mail, we are informed that the 07:19PM 10 proposed amendment for the intersection includes a 11 day -care, a gasoline service station, and two 12 drive - through facilities. It is our wish that the 13 plan commission not recommend this or any other 14 type of gasoline service station at-this 07:19PM 15 intersection. This type of facility is not 16 appropriate for this intersection given the number 17 of homes in the immediate vicinity. The odor, the 18 24 -hour lighting, and the additional nighttime 19 noise distractions produced by the proposed 07:20PM 20 service station are our greatest concerns. 21 We have been residents of the 22 Cimmaron Subdivision, situated at the southwest 23 corner of Route 34 and Cannonball Trail, for over 24 15 years. In that time period we have witnessed DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 21 1 much growth in the area, particularly commercial 2 growth. We have never complained about or 3 rejected any of the business opportunities that i i 4 have been built up around us. In fact, we have 07:20PM 5 welcomed and supported all of the commercial 6 ventures currently located at the above - mentioned 7 intersection as a benefit to the lives of the all 8 residents of Yorkville and surrounding areas. 9 Living near such a high- trafficked 07:20PM 10 intersection as Route 34 and Cannonball Trail, we 11 realize that many businesses would certainly want 12 to locate at the proposed intersection. It is our 13 hope that the plan commission will consider the 14 negative aspects that a gasoline service station 07:20PM 15 with produce, clearly reducing the quality of life 16 for the families living in the immediate vicinity. 17 It is also our hope that the 18 members of plan commission continue to support the 19 business ventures that will enhance our area of 07:21PM 20 town and our quality of life while declining to 21 recommend the proposed gasoline service station. 22 Thank you for your time and concern. Sincerely, 23 David and Maria Fisher, Lonnie and Chris Avery, 24 Cimmaron Ridge residents. DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 22 1 The second letter is addressed to 2 the United City of Yorkville, City Clerk, City 3 Hall, 800 Game Farm Road, Yorkville, Illinois. 4 This one is notarized as well. 07:21PM 5 This is a written notice of protest 6 against the proposed changes to an existing PUD 7 agreement dated 8/10/2000, described in Kendall 8 County parcel 02 -29- 100 -004 and 02 -29- 100 -005 9 located at the northeast corner of Cannonball 07:21PM 10 Trail and US Route 34 in Yorkville, Illinois, 11 containing 6.148 acres, more or less. 12 Application for changing the 13 existing PUD agreement was filed by HRM 14 Properties & Development, LLC, 300 North Lake 07:22PM 15 Street, Montgomery, Illinois 60538. Copies of 16 this notice have also been sent via certified mail 17 to HRM Properties & Development, LLC, and Daniel 18 J. Kramer & Associates, Attorneys at Law, 1107A 19 South Bridge Street, Yorkville, Illinois 60560. 07:22PM 20 We the undersigned state that 21 according to the Illinois compiled statutes he or 22 she is the legal title holder or member manager of 23 Kendall County Parcel No. 02 -20- 376 -003 and 24 02- 29- 201 -001 which constitutes more than 20 DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 23 1 percent of the frontage proposed to be altered and 2 is requesting that the Plan Commission of the 3 United City of Yorkville deny the changes to the 4 existing PUD agreement dated 8/10/2000. It is 07:22PM 5 signed by Bobby J. Klack, Marilyn Klack, and Vern 6 L. Henney. And I have more information if you 7 would like the addresses as well. 8 Those are the two letters I read 9 into the record. Vern, did you want to get up and 07:23PM 10 speak? Make sure you introduce yourself and state 11 where you live. Thank you. 12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi, I'm Vern Henney. 13 I live on Route 34, Yorkville, Illinois. I would 14 like to reserve the right to speak Later but I'm 07:23PM 15 here under my lawyer's direction to state that 16 Mr. Kramer is in conflict of representing myself 17 and Harold Oliver at this meeting. And that's 18 what I'm supposed to say at this point. Thank 19 you. I 07:23PM 20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Loren 21 Miller. I reside at 28 Hickory Lane, Yorkville. 22 I was not notified at all and I'm adjacent 23 property owner. 24 MR. MILLER: We do have a list. I don't DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 I 24 1 have that with me and we can verify with the 2 clerk's office. I would ask the petitioner if I 3 they have a list that was sent out and we can 4 confirm if notice was sent out. I I 07:24PM 5 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Do we have anyone 6 else who has anymore input on this? 7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Bob Klack. 8 I am at 3974 Cannonball Trail. This is my 9 property line here on the north end, so I'm 07:24PM 10 substantially effected by whatever goes in there. 11 I did get your letter. I was concerned about 12 this. Now he is saying there is some kind of berm 13 or protection or something between him and my 14 property. I'm wondering what kind of protection? 07:25PM 15 There was never anything mentioned about whether 16 they are going to plant two trees or five trees or 17 give me an earthen berm. They are awfully vague 18 on that. And the two drive- throughs, apparently 19 from what I have heard after the letter, one 07:25PM 20 drive - through is for a car wash at the service 21 station, which my letter didn't say what the 22 drive - through was for, so that tells me that there 23 is a service station and a car wash on that 24 corner, which would be Lot No. 1. I'm concerned DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 25 1 about runoff. Me and ten of my neighbors, or 12 2 of my neighbors, we are all on wells. We are not 3 on the City, we don't have city water and sewer so 4 I'm concerned about runoff even from the car wash 07:25PM 5 but especially from the service station. 6 Now, I know there is a lot of 7 preventative measures that have been taken but 8 still there is going to be spills. I have been in 9 service stations where I have seen the pumps kick 07:26PM 10 off and fall underground or fall underground and 11 not kick off and spills are always there. I'm 12 concerned about the runoff from these accidental 13 spills, not the ones in the tanks, that might get 14 into my we will. So that's one of my major 07:26PM 15 concerns. 16 And I'm interested in what kind of 17 protection they are giving me here and how close I 18 will be to what area they put -- if it is a 19 day -care center, which is not on the original PUD, 07:26PM 20 and the original PUD said there would be no 21 service station on that corner eight years ago 22 from the City when it was annexed into the City. 23 The PUD said there would be no service station. 24 I'm concerned about why they changed their mind, DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 26 1 and since we are all trying to cut back on 2 gasoline consumption, I don't think we need a 3 service station. Thank you. 4 (Clapping.) 07:27PM 5 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Hold on. Dan, do 6 you have anybody that can address the protected 7 question, and I think there is probably going to 8 be some questions as to what the two 9 drive- throughs are that you are proposing. 07:27PM 10 MR. KRAMER : Sure. We can answer a 11 couple of those. I'll have Jim step up on a 12 couple and I can answer some. The last one before 13 Mr. Klack had about his comment about gas 14 stations -- which unfortunately we all have to 07:27PM 15 use, so we buy our petrol some place -- Page 14 of 16 the original PUD agreement, day -care centers are a 17 permitted use in this class so that is not one of 18 the changes being requested in this PUD. The 19 change is the fact that it is being put as the 07:27PM 20 buffer as opposed to running the street in, which 21 would be right next to the Klack property. And he 22 is our adjacent owner along the north here and was 23 on the list that we notified. Mr. Miller is up a 24 ways on it so we think notice is proper. With DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 27 1 respect to detention, you can see in the drawings 2 that you have before the landscaping is 3 superimposed that we do have a detention area 4 adjacent to that to catch- water. In terms, Jim, 07:28PM 5 of the general nature of the bermings and 6 plantings, could you testify as to what the 7 separation would be and the degree of separation 8 for Mr. Klack's home, please? 9 MR. KOZIOL: Yes. In our initial design 07:28PM 10 we had talked about having a little bit of 11 detention in these areas tied into the main 12 detention pond that is down here. Since that time 13 we decided to eliminate the detention in these 14 areas. There will be some here and -some 07:28PM 15 underground, so we will start a berm up at this 16 property line and then bring it up and bring it 17 back down to this playground area and we will get 18 that berm as high as we legally can by ordinance. 19 The ordinance stipulates what our slopes can be up 07:29PM 20 and down those berms. So we will maximize those 21 berms and then the ordinance also requires 22 screening between the properties and we will meet, 23 you know, whatever is required in the ordinance. 24 Usually -- and if there is a -- you know, if a DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 28 I 1 fence is required, I think it is whatever is in 2 the ordinance we will match. Plus the water flow 3 comes down this way, so we will set things up, you 4 know, to flow into that pond. 07:29PM 5 MR. KRAMER: So the court reporter can 6 get that -- she can't pick up a "this way" -- you 7 are pointing at the general nature of the water 8 flow is from north to south away from Mr. Klack's 9 property. 07:29PM 10 MR. KOZIOL: Correct. 11 MR. KRAMER: But you do show a detention 12 area immediately adjacent on the inside of the 13 berm; is that fair to say? 14 MR. KOZIOL: Yeah, we will- probably 07:29PM 15 eliminate it so we can get the berm a little 16 higher. 17 MR. KRAMER: And with respect to the 18 day -care center, DCFS requires fences for obvious 19 security reasons but those aren't perimeter 07:30PM 20 fences. They are closer to the day -care center, 21 are they not? 22 MR. KOZIOL: That's correct. 23 MR. KRAMER: Now, with respect to the 24 drive- throughs, that references the bank facility DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 29 1 down in Lot 2 at the southern end of the property? 2 MR. KOZIOL: That's correct. 3 MR. KRAMER: And then where else is a 4 drive - through? 07:30PM 5 MR. KOZIOL: There is another 6 drive - through on the east end of the retail 7 building on Lot 3. 8 MR. KRAMER: Again, the idea is you may 9 end up with a user like a Starbucks or coffee shop I 07:30PM 10 that may have a drive - through for coffee service 11 early in the morning. 12 MR. KOZIOL: Right. 13 MR. KRAMER: Those are the two 14 drive - throughs you talked about earl -ier. 07:30PM 15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: So we are going to 16 have two drive- throughs plus the car wash 17 drive - through? 18 MR. KRAMER: The car wash is part of the 19 service station. 07:30PM 20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is not considered a 21 drive - through. 22 MR. KRAMER: Correct. 23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Dan, did you say that 24 I wasn't an adjacent property owner? DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 30 1 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Hold on. Let me ask 2 a question. Mr. Klack, did you feel your 3 questions were answered? 4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm not too sure. You 07:31PM 5 said whatever the berm you require. What is the 6 berm you require? Is it four feet, six feet, five 7 feet? 8 MR. MILLER: The landscaping 9 requirements -- this is a little different. With 07:31PM 10 the PUD there is not a strict requirement on that, 11 but what was referred to is the landscape 12 ordinance. That requirement is a 30- foot -wide 13 landscape buffer yard when you have a 14 non - residential land use adjacent to a 07:31PM 15 residential, which would be the case here. It 16 would be a 30 -foot width. It's about four -foot 17 high berm or a fence or a -- you know, of that 18 height could be, so it is kind of a -- there is an 19 option whether it be a solid fence or a berm. 07:31PM 20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: If they put a solid 21 fence, would it be on their property, not mine? 22 MR. KRAMER: Absolutely. It must be on 23 their property and not yours, sir, that's correct. 24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you. DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 i 31 1 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: You are okay with 2 that answer now? 3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is still vague but 4 I assume four feet is the maximum? 07:32PM 5 MR. MILLER: Right. In addition to that 6 the landscape material that's required in that and 7 within that the quantity of landscape material is 8 based on 100 lineal feet of the length of the 9 berm. Within that number of feet there is an 07:32PM 10 amount of trees and landscape materials that need 11 to be included. 12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: He said the runoff 13 would be back toward his property so I assume the 14 berm would be sloped more on his side than my 07:32PM 15 side, a longer slope? Would mine be more a direct 16 height? 17 MR. MILLER: A safe assumption. At this 18 point we just have a concept plan. 19 MR. KOZIOL: In most cases that's what 07:33PM 20 happens. To get the berm to the highest point we 21 put the center of the berm at the center of the 30 22 feet so we can go up and come down. 23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: And you are going to 24 plant some sort of shrubbery on top? DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 32 1 MR. KOZIOL: Right. 2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm Harold Oliver. 3 15426 Millhurst Road, Plano. The principal of 4 HRM. I'm the "H" in HRM Properties. And to try 07:33PM 5 to answer your question, we are concerned with the 6 water runoff. That's why we eliminated the 7 detention pond up there. But, more importantly, 8 as a residential neighbor for you, whatever 9 species you're looking for, if you want berm and a 07:33PM 10 fence, we will be glad to work with you. 11 We were trying to consider that 12 with this road, because this road, the original 13 way it came through was here and it was two -fold 14 we looked at. We looked at you as the property 07:34PM 15 owner, that didn't make sense because we are 16 trying to isolate you a little more. No. 2 is the 17 day -care. We have a national franchise day -care 18 on this project, and as a day -care they didn't 19 want traffic coming through there. They wanted 07:34PM 20 this to be isolated. They wanted to isolate the 21 day -care and isolate also for your purpose. 22 So we can work that out on the 23 berm. I will put it on the record, if you want a 24 berm and shrubbery and a fence, whatever works out DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 33 1 best for you, we will be glad to work with you. i 2 On a project this size obviously to make the 3 neighbors happy is our concern. If you need a 4 fence on it, that's fine. Thank you. 07:34PM 5 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Okay. More 6 questions? Sir, would you please come up. 7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I believe Mr. Kramer 8 said I wasn't -- 9 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Could you say your 07:34PM 10 name. 11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Loren Miller, 28 12 Hickory Lane. I live right here. I have about 13 100 feet of adjacent property. I'm right behind 14 Mr. Klack so I am right next door and I don't 07:35PM 15 know - - 16 MR. KRAMER: Before we leave tonight, 17 give me your tax parcel number so I can check for 18 it. That's the way we have it listed. 19 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Okay. Do we have 07:35PM 20 anyone else? Go ahead. 21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm Martha Price. I 22 live at 29 Hickory Lane, Yorkville. I believe 23 every member of the plan commission got a letter 24 and a packet from me, okay. In the letter and the DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 34 1 attachments that we sent, our reasons for asking 2 that the PUD not be changed were given, which 3 included the previous legal battles and the many 4 changes involving that corner over the years. All 07:35PM 5 of that was outlined in the lengthy history 6 attached to the letter. 7 Our reasons for also not changing 8 the PUD to allow for a special use for a gas 9 station were also specifically given in the letter 07:36PM 10 in that it doesn't seem that the special use meets 11 the standards outlined in Yorkville's zoning book 12 and those standards are quoted in the letter. 13 These reasons, along with the high 14 risk for groundwater contamination, which could 07:36PM 15 endanger the nearby private wells, are same as the 16 concerns the residents on the other end of 17 Cannonball Trail at Route 47 had in January of 18 2005 when a gas station was proposed at that 19 corner. You know, of course, that there is not a 07:36PM 20 gas station there. The proposal was withdrawn 21 before it was put to a vote at the Plan 22 Commission. 23 In addition I would like to raise 24 the following issues or questions. The DepoCourt Reporting service (630) 983 -0030 I 35 1 application for the change stated a request for a 2 change in the site plan and for special uses for 3 the front lots. I'm assuming the front lots are 4 the lots located closest to Route 34. 07:36PM 5 In the certified letter we received 6 it stated that the request was for a site plan 7 amendment to the PUD and a special use for a 8 day -care, gasoline service station, and two 9 drive - through facilities. I'm assuming a site 07:37PM 10 plan is the arrangement of the buildings and the 11 current PUD on Page 5 states that the property I 12 shall be developed and approved as a planned unit 13 development under the following: " A " says, 14 specific building location as generally defined by 07:37PM 15 the site plan as per Exhibit D. 16 Since the new proposal shows 17 buildings in a different arrangement, I'm assuming 18 this is what is meant by an amendment to the site 19 plan. However, the new proposal shows a car wash, 07:37PM 20 which I believe is a B -3 use. Neither the 21 application or the certified letters states any 22 additional uses or zoning changes are requested. 23 Only office uses and some B -1 and B -2 uses are 24 allowed per the current PUD. Also the new i i DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 36 1 proposal shows the day -care in the portion of the 2 parcel, which according to the PUD is to be 3 office. In the current PUD a day -care is a B -2 4 classification and should not be allowed in the 07:38PM 5 office zoned portion. 6 Again, neither the application or 7 certified letter states a request for a zoning 8 change or a change in the classification of a use. 9 The office zoned portion, the northernmost 400 07:38PM 10 feet, is to serve as a buffer or transitional 11 zoning portion between the single-family g Y 12 residences and the B -1 and B -2 uses. And that's 13 on the top paragraph of Page 6 on the current PUD. 14 I realize in that Yor-kville's 07:38PM 15 current zoning ordinances a day -care is a special 16 use in office. However, the last paragraph on 17 Page 7 of the current PUD states: In the event of 18 any conflict between this agreement and any 19 ordinance of the City enforced at the time of the 07:38PM 20 execution of this agreement or enacted during the 21 pendency of this agreement, the provision of this 22 agreement shall prevail to the extent of any such 23 conflict or inconsistency. I think this means 24 that since the current PUD states that day -care is DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 37 1 a B -2 use, that should take precedence. 2 Again, we feel that the current PUD 3 should be upheld. It was a long rough road 4 getting to the current PUD, and we feel the 07:39PM 5 current PUD should end the matter. I feel however 6 that compliance with the current PUD would come 7 close to being met if the day -care center and a 8 retail and bank were built in the area south of 9 the office zoned portion and something else from 07:39PM 10 the office use category built in the office zoned 11 section on the north end. But no gas station or 12 car wash should be allowed. 13 Even with these suggestions a site 14 plan may still have to be amended to be in 07:39PM 15 compliance with the section on Page 5 previously 16 mentioned in the current PUD. The City attorney 17 at the time the brick home was torn down on that 18 property said that something would have to be 19 built back in the same footprint in order to 07:40PM 20 satisfy the current PUD. 21 And I realize that what I just said 22 may be confusing so I'm giving you a copy of most 23 of what I just said, plus there is another 24 document concerning the soil in the area from the DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 i 38 1 U.S. Department of Ag, which we obtained during 2 the first discussion in 1997 concerning this gas 3 station proposal. 4 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Do you want us to 07:40PM 5 read the letter into the record? 6 AUDIENCE MEMBER: If that's appropriate, 7 please do. 8 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Absolutely. Okay. 9 Letter dated June 4, 2008, to Ann 07:40PM 10 Lucietto, Chairman, Yorkville Plan Commission. We 11 had hoped and are still hoping that the current 12 PUD approval by the City Council on August of 2000 13 would be the end of long history of the northeast 14 corner of Cannonball Trail and Route- 34. The 07:40PM 15 neighborhood wanted to be able to count on this 16 PUD. See attached current PUD and history. 17 The current PUD would still be of i 18 economic benefit to the City of Yorkville and 19 acceptable to the neighbors. The current PUD 07:41PM 20 provides for some transitional zoning in the 21 northernmost 400 feet next to the residences and 22 is zoned as office. The current PUD shows berming 23 to also provide a buffer between the commercial 24 and residential areas. The remainder was approved DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 39 1 with limited B -1 and B -2 uses. There was no 2 provision for the approval of a gas station. 3 Given that this is once again up for discussion, 4 our major concern, as it was in 1997 when the gas 07:41PM 5 station proposal first appeared, is the fact that 6 the risk for groundwater contamination is 7 considered high risk for all of Bristol Township 8 and the aquifer materials within five feet of the 9 land surface. See attached information page. 07:41PM 10 Homes along Cannonball Trail and 11 along Route 34 and homes to the east of the 12 proposed gas station site all have private wells. i " I 13 Blackberry Creek, which was labeled a high - quality 14 creek by the Conservation Plan Quorum, in a study 07:42PM 15 commissioned by the City Council in 2002 is 16 only .3 miles to the east. 17 Given the large number of results 18 on a computer search for such topics as 19 underground gasoline tank leaks, runoff from 07:42PM 20 gasoline stations, and related topics, apparently 21 leaks are a problem. We do not want to live with 22 this uncertainty and potential health risk. The 23 cost of cleanup is very expensive. 24 Under the special uses in I DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 40 1 Yorkville's zoning ordinance book, Section 10 dash 2 14 dash 6F standard states that no special use 3 shall be recommended by the Plan Commission unless 4 said commission shall find that, one, the 07:42PM 5 establishment, maintenance, or operation of the 6 special use will not be unreasonably detrimental 7 to or endanger the public health, safety, morals, 8 comfort, or general welfare. 9 No. 2, the special use will not be 07:42PM 10 injurious to the use and enjoyment of other 11 properties in the immediate vicinity for the 12 purpose already permitted, nor substantially 13 diminish and impair property values within the 14 neighborhood. See entire special -us-e section 07:43PM 15 attached. 16 In bold, we feel the special -use 17 request for the gas station does not meet these 18 standards. The Yorkville Plan Commission voted no 19 for business zoning on this parcel in 2000, and we 07:43PM 20 would hope that this Plan Commission would vote 21 for no change to the PUD in place, which would 22 also be a vote for the integrity of other PUDs in 23 place and on which citizens can rely. Signed 24 Martha Price for the Cannonball Trail Civic I DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 41 1 League. 2 Please come forward. 3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I would like to say 4 one more time that I feel this is conflict. Next, 07:43PM 5 we can sit and talk about gas tanks all we want. 6 I have got a couple of days invested in gas tanks. 7 We can talk about TLS monitoring, we can talk 8 about Source North America, we can talk about 9 Gimbol LSI lights, and we can talk about water 07:44PM 10 running out and what cars leave behind, people 11 suing, and so on and so on and so on. But we have 12 a PUD. We fired up a PUD and everybody was happy. 13 Mr. Oliver bought the property and was well aware 14 of the PUD, knew what it was and understands it 07:44PM 15 still today. Yet he comes in and wants to change 16 it and talks about sympathy because he wants to 17 make money. I understand that point but we had a 18 PUD. And that's all I want to say, thank you. 19 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Anyone else. Lynn? 07:44PM 20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm Lynn Duvachek, 21 executive director of the Yorkville Economic 22 Development Corporation, 615 Prairie Point Drive, 23 Yorkville. I want to speak to the changes that 24 have happened in the area since 2000. Certainly DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 42 1 what we have seen in the -- near the intersection 2 of 34 and Cannonball has changed tremendously, and 3 I wanted to speak to the amount of people that are 4 drawn to that area because of not only the 07:45PM 5 shopping center but because of the government 6 campus, Kendall County government campus, as well 7 as the Rush Copley Health Care Campus. 8 Currently in Yorkville there is -- 9 in Yorkville proper there is about 2000 jobs at 07:45PM 10 this time. And with the buildout of the -- those 11 three new centers that we have in that area, we 12 are going to re- duplicate the amount of people 13 that are going to come into that area to work 14 every day. And also there is a tremendous amount 07:45PM 15 of people that are going to be coming in to 16 transact business, whether it is to shop, to file 17 things at the county government center, or to have 18 procedures done at the medical campus. 19 So I wanted to bring that up to 07:46PM 20 state how important we have always stressed to 21 have complete service for people who come into 22 Yorkville. When they come to Yorkville, we want 23 to create an economic hub where people could come 24 and have all their needs met. Certainly many of DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 I 43 1 the people that will be coming to this area are 2 coming from Yorkville but they will be coming from 3 outside of Yorkville as well and we want them 4 while they are here to be able to have lunch, to 07:46PM 5 fill up their car with gas, to have all of their 6 needs met. 7 So I just wanted to bring that 8 perspective of -- because there is going to be 9 nearly 2000 people coming to that area to go to 07:46PM 10 work every day. Thank you. 11 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Anyone else? 12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening. My name 13 is Arthur Crawford, and I live at 20 Hickory Lane. 14 And I was worried about pollution, as Mr. Klack 07:47PM 15 was. He lives across the way from me. When they 16 put in the sewer and water system, they put in a 17 great deal of gravel and soil and it became a 18 conduit. A lot of water went down that conduit to 19 the creek. Now we have a road that has a base of 07:47PM 20 crushed rock and gravel, another conduit, you 21 might say, and it goes from 34 all the way to the 22 little rivulet that leads to Blackberry Creek. 23 That's as far as the road was rebuilt. If we have 24 leakage, if we have pollution, the possibility is DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 44 1 that it could go right down that road as an 2 underground conduit all the way to the creek, to 3 Blackberry, affecting a lot more than just the 4 residents along Hickory and Cannonball Trail. I 07:48PM 5 just wanted to mention that, if anybody knows 6 anybody about that. Thank you. 7 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Kyle? 8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening. I'm 9 Kyle Price. I live at 29 Hickory Lane and I came 07:48PM 10 to Yorkville 45 years ago to teach school. I was 11 going to stay two years and leave. I'm still 12 here. And I guess over the years harassment, I 13 will call it, has taken place. We have had zoning 14 issues, now a PUD in place, which is- a legal 07:49PM 15 binding contract, which is in violation. 16 I taught business law. I started 17 the cooperative work program so you might think 18 I'm anti - business. Well, I'm certainly not, 19 because I have taught business, I majored in 07:49PM 20 business, I got a master's in business, plus the 21 fact that you are looking at the person that did 22 the Yorkville High School yearbook for 35 years, 23 that's the world's record. I have enjoyed the 24 community and so forth, but I'm not happy with DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 45 1 people that want to not abide by especially 2 written contracts and so forth. 3 Mr. Oliver I have known for a while 4 and I have had a son, Mason, and we have always 07:50PM 5 gotten along fine. In fact, Harold called me one 6 day and I was home so I answered the phone and he 7 says I want to change the PUD on the corner, what 8 do you think of that? So I explained to him that 9 we had a process that our attorneys worked on. 07:50PM 10 And City people and the residents at that time, 11 which are still there, I guess, came to an 12 agreement. And he says, well, we might wind up 13 with a tattoo parlor. I remember said, Harold, 14 that's not in the PUD. So then we discussed our 07:50PM 15 children and so forth, which is a pleasant 16 conversation always. And then he says, well, I'm 17 thinking of buying that property but any time 18 there is resistance we just move on down the road. 19 So I don't know what we are doing 07:50PM 20 here tonight, but I think in order to have 21 character -- and the Yorkville schools have had an 22 agreement with the City on character counts, okay? 23 What is character? We complain about society. We 24 are society. So what kind of atmosphere are we DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 i 46 1 setting here when we want to make changes and the 2 big change is health. We have had health issues 3 in our family in the last year, not pleasant. Are 4 we going to continue to make things worse in our 07:51PM 5 community of creating more health issues for 6 people? And you read about health issues every 7 day in the paper. So I'm asking you to stick with 8 it. 9 I have one other question, where do 07:52PM 10 people buy their gas now? Okay. What happens 11 also to a gas station that is closed up on Route 12 30 and Douglas. There is a nice Mobil gas station 13 boarded up, not very old. The traffic count on 14 Route 30 is thousands and thousands -of cars a day 07:52PM 15 surrounded by shoppers and residents and so forth. 16 People find a place to buy their gas. You have 17 gas stations here in Yorkville and people go 18 there. They buy gas all over. So all you are 19 doing is dividing up the pie by sticking a gas 07:52PM 20 station on a nice really residential area. So 21 business can still take place there because it is 22 approved but a gas station is inappropriate. 23 Thank you. 24 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: You have your hand DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 47 1 up? 2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening. My name 3 is Oliver Klack. I live at 3524 Cannonball Trail. 4 It is about a half a mile up from this property. 07:53PM 5 I don't have a lot to add other than I support 6 Martha's position. The one thing that I noticed 7 tonight is the mention about the lighting. I � 8 would like to remind the planning Council that 9 Kendall shopping center talked a great deal about 07:53PM 10 the lights. When they opened Home Depot, I can 11 get up 24 hours a day without turning on my 12 lights. It makes very bright lights and 13 completely violates the essence of what they told 14 us they weren't going to do. I'm of -raid the same 07:54PM 15 thing will happen here. Please consider that. 16 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Do we have anyone 17 else? Robyn? 18 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm Robyn Sutcliff, 19 Third Board Alderman for the City of Yorkville. I 07:54PM 20 apologize. I was about 20 minutes late so I hope 21 these weren't a repeat of something that was 22 covered previously. 23 I'm kind of here -- I have looked 24 at the plan briefly and am concerned about the DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 I 48 1 runoff. I do hate to sound like a broken record, 2 but we do have a finite resource, which is water. 3 And I want to know, this is very close to 4 Blackberry Creek, which is an A -rated creek, and 07:54PM 5 there is very few of those left in our state, and 6 I want to know how this increase from grass and 7 prairie into blacktop where nothing's going to go 8 into it, I wonder what the plan might be for 9 filtration? And also, obviously, if we do end up I 07:55PM 10 with this use here, there is going to be quite a 11 bit of contamination, not necessarily -- I don't 12 know from the tanks underneath but just from the 13 oil and the gas just on top of the pavement and 14 obviously water hits that, runs off,- and I wonder 07:55PM 15 if there is any kind of plan for that, vegetative 16 cleansing, or any kind of cleansing program that 17 you have all thought of. Those are mainly 18 concerns I have had. I appreciate everyone coming 19 out. 07:55PM 20 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Dan? Can you answer 21 that one? 22 MR. KRAMER: I don't know if that's it 23 or if you want to let everybody go? 24 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Do you want to do DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 49 1 them all at once? Okay. Is there anybody else? 2 We have got one more. 3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening. My name 4 is Art Maraska. I live at 1010 John Street, about 07:56PM 5 a block half or maybe two blocks from the proposed 6 site. I was around when this was originally set 7 up as a PUD. I agree it was and was set and there 8 was a lot of work put into it. But I also believe 9 that anybody has a right to ask for change. 07:56PM 10 That's part of the deal too. There is nothing 11 that says once it is done, it is done in stone. 12 You always get the chance. Until it is built and 13 developed that's a possibility. 14 Now, personally, I don't think what 07:56PM 15 goes here is going to effect values, property 16 values, environment, anything any more than 17 anything that's already there. In fact, I would 18 suggest that some of my neighbors might think the 19 fact that the jail expanded probably has more 07:57PM 20 effect on some of the things that are going on in 21 our immediate area. 22 I do have a concern that if a 23 service station is to go there that -- number one, 24 that the City would have the competent people to DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 50 1 make sure that any inspections, to make sure that 2 as the equipment is put in, is done correctly. I 3 don't know if we have that capability on our staff 4 or not? 07:57PM 5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: State Fire Marshall's 6 office. 7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That's a state 8 regulated group? Okay. That to me would be the 9 most important thing, because to me, again, 07:57PM 10 technology is -- along the Fox River itself there 11 are areas where there is gas stations within 100 12 feet or 150 feet of the river itself. So they do 13 exist, they do work, and there have been no major 14 issues with them. Can happen but it- would need to 07:57PM 15 be something that is looked at correctly. 16 You know, it is going to be your 17 decision,.whether you decide to allow the PUD to 18 be changed. It was a good PUD that was put 19 together but, again, I don't see that -- you know, 07:58PM 20 there is no reason that someone cannot ask to have 21 it changed and I don't see anything particularly 22 wrong with this. That's my comment. 23 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Anyone else? 24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Can I make another DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 51 1 comment? 2 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Yes, you may, Vern, 3 but you have to do it up here. 4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: We did talk quite a 07:58PM 5 bit about contamination. One of the biggest funds 6 in the State of Illinois is called the Superfund 7 and that's for pollution and pollution of gas 8 stations. They have even stopped with the other 9 funds that they used to use and they are now 07:58PM 10 channeling most of their stuff into the Superfund. 11 Double -wall tanks have been around 12 for a long time. They really have. They still 13 leak. I know everybody says they don't, but 14 somebody shuts off the TLS 350 and they can do 07:59PM 15 whatever they want. Just click, they can do 16 whatever they want, doesn't make any difference. 17 True? 18 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Anyone else? Okay. 19 I'm looking for a motion to close the public 07:59PM 20 hearing. 21 MR. SCHILLINGER: So moved. 22 MR. LINDBLOM: Second. 23 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Time out. 24 MR. KRAMER: I thought you wanted me DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 52 1 before you are closed the public hearing. 2 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: We do, sorry. 3 MR. KRAMER: Thank you. With respect to 4 most of the comments, again, we are certainly 07:59PM 5 taking into account the opinions of the neighbors. I 6 We don't always agree but we respect them and I 7 think Art said it best. We are doing this the I 8 proper way. Nobody's doing this under the cover 9 of darkness. There is a petition filed. We've 07:59PM 10 enumerated the items they would like to change. 11 We have tried to give some logical reasons why, 12 and, again, I think if you just look at the old I 13 PUD agreement, which referenced the ordinances we 14 had at the time, and we are always proud of those 08:ooPM 15 at the time but life does move on, different 16 issues come up, and we learn different things. 17 And the standards between landscaping setbacks and 18 engineering standards between 2000 and 2008 in the 19 City of Yorkville are light years different. And o8:ooPM 20 the petitioner has said we are willing to live 21 with those much, much tougher new standards. 22 Nobody's here asking for sympathy 23 or saying, gee, you owe us a living. Mr. And 24 Mrs. Oliver and their son bought the property DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 53 1 knowing full well that there is a PUD in place, 2 but they are also members of the community and 3 having gone to school here and having lived here 4 for 30 years, they are not blind to the changes 08:OOPM 5 that have happened to the community either. To 6 suggest that that corner is a quiet residential 7 area begs the question -- you folks all drive by 8 there every day. Probably at this point in your 9 lives a lot of you avoid it when you can every day 08:01PM 10 because of the commercial nature. 11 And so we are trying to put this in 12 in a sensitive manner with the buffering, with the 13 landscaping. We think we have come up with a much 14 better way to build a mouse trap when we moved the 08:01PM 15 road to the south to get it away from Mr. Klack 16 and Mr. Miller's property and have that all green 17 area. 18 Again, that's a substantial change 19 from the old PUD but we think it is a good change. 08:O1PM 20 The places where the most intense activity would 21 take place on the site are on the Route 34 end, 22 not the north end that's adjacent to the 23 agricultural or the residential uses. We haven't 24 talked about economic benefit to the City and DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 54 1 certainly shouldn't make the decision in a vacuum 2 solely for the economic benefit of the city but it 3 is not a bad factor to look at either. In a 4 similar -sized station to what this station would 08:02PM 5 be, the proposed operator is currently paying the 6 State of Illinois very close to $230,000 for the 7 last year for sales taxes. And that number with 8 the price of gasoline looks like it will approach 9 300,000 this year, and that's based on market 08:02PM 10 study and what type of business they think they 11 would do here. 12 Will we split the pie of what's 13 here? No. What's going to happen -- and the 14 reason Kohl's is at that location and the reason 08:02PM 15 Home Depot is at that location, they didn't build 16 those to syphon off their customers from Oswego or 17 the west side of Aurora or Orchard Road. They 18 built the stores out here on the belief that there 19 is going to be growth out here in Yorkville and 08:02PM 20 the Kendall County area and this gas station will 21 capture the growth. It is not just splitting the 22 pie but you are looking at a new job creation of 23 this Route 34 corridor of approximately 2000 more 24 jobs and people will need services and we believe DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 55 I 1 we provide them at that location. 2 So we believe the changes that we 3 have itemized to the PUD are reasonable. We are 4 not asking for sympathy. We are just asking for 08:03PM 5 common sense, and we ask that you recommend 6 approval of those changes to the City. Thank you. 7 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Okay. We have a 8 motion to close the public hearing and a second. 9 Are we still agreeing with that, Brian and Tom? 08:03PM 10 MR. SCHILLINGER: You bet. 11 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: All in favor say 12 aye. 13 (Chorus of ayes.) 14 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Oppose -d, nay? 08:03PM 15 (No response.) 16 (Whereupon a portion of the 17 hearing was had but not herein I 18 transcribed.) 19 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Okay. I'm looking 08:28PM 20 for a motion to open PC 2008 dash 13. I 21 MS. ADAMS: So moved. 22 COMMISSION MEMBER: Second. 23 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: All in favor say 24 aye. i I I DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 I 56 I 1 (Chorus of ayes.) 2 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Not in favor, nay. 3 (No response.) 4 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Okay. I will read 08:28PM 5 the description into the record for you. PC 2008 6 dash 13, Cross Evangelical Lutheran Church, 7 petitioner, has filed an application with the 8 United City of Yorkville, Kendall County, Illinois 9 requesting annexation and zoning from Kendall i 08:28PM 10 County A -1 farm special use PUD allowing for uses 11 within R -1 single - family residential and B -3 12 service business districts. The real property 13 consists of 25 acres located at 7481 Mill Road, 14 Oswego, Illinois 60543. The action -items are 08:29PM 15 zoning and annexation. 16 MR. JOYNER: Thank you, Madam Chairman. 17 Let me ask a preliminary question first. Is 18 anyone on the audience here on this petition? 19 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Can I ask you to 08:29PM 20 identify yourself on the public record, please? 21 MR. JOYNER: Wade Joyner, J- o- y- n -e -r, 22 for the petitioner. I don't have a big blow -up, I 23 but I do have these so they are here to look at if i I 24 you would like. i I I DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 I 57 1 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: If you guys would 2 like to come forward and sit closer, that's fine. 3 MR. JOYNER: I will -- you guys can pass 4 those around. I think the members all have I 08:30PM 5 copies. As you may know, on the existing site 6 there is the Loving Arms day -care center -- and 7 I'm sorry, one more thing, Terri Meyers is here as I 8 well on the building committee of the church 9 helping to represent me, and if he has anything to 08:30PM 10 say, I will call over to him. 11 But the Loving Arms day -care center 12 is currently on this 25 -acre site. It is owned by 13 Cross Lutheran Church, the property is. The good 14 news is that -- two things, Loving Arms is doing 08:30PM 15 very well and there is a waiting list and so we 16 are looking to -- they are looking to expand. 17 And, in addition, to all the growth that's 18 occurring primarily because of the reserve, Cross 19 would like to plant a church on that site to be 08:31PM 20 closer to that -- the northern part of Yorkville 21 and serve that community. To that end what we are I 22 currently doing and have the funding for an -- an 23 addition to the Loving Arms building of 24 approximately 24,000 feet. And going through that I DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 58 1 process and, you know, talking to various people 2 we have concluded that it makes a lot of sense to 3 go ahead and annex the property into the United 4 City of Yorkville versus remaining unincorporated. 08:31PM 5 That will help us hook into the sanitary sewer and 6 water, which will help with the sprinkler system 7 and those requirements and it just makes sense 8 given its location to the United City of 9 Yorkville. 08:32PM 10 So that is why we are before you 11 seeking annexation, and then as a church we are 12 seeking residential zoning because under your 13 ordinance that is, you know, where a church goes. 14 One thing that came up during this process -- and 08:32PM 15 this gets to why we are asking for a portion of 16 the property to be allowed as a business use -- is 17 that the property to the west has been zoned by 18 Yorkville for commercial use as well as another 19 church but a substantial portion of it is 08:32PM 20 commercial use and including the area of the 21 property directly adjacent to our property. And 22 so it was our thought that if we can carve out a 23 portion of our property with business zoning, it 24 would create the possibility that if and when a DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 59 1 commercial developer wanted to develop the I 2 commercial portion of the property to the west 3 that we would also have some land for that 4 developer as well. 08:33PM 5 You know, I do commercial 6 development and I wouldn't anticipate -- never say 7 never -- but I wouldn't anticipate that a I i 8 commercial user would want to use our property for 9 a commercial use in the absence of the adjacent 08:33PM 10 land -owner also being a commercial use. So I 11 think with the adjacent land -owner having a 12 commercial use, it is an appropriate fit and, 13 frankly, could be a source of income for the 14 church, which would help our budget-and help us be 08:34PM 15 able to build there sooner. 16 So what you have before you is a 17 planned unit development where you see the 18 existing building in the annexation and the 19 related detention and parking in the concept plan 08:34PM 20 and the rest of the property we have what I would 21 just call a zoning diagram or a use diagram 22 showing the area that we plan on using for our 23 community center, worship center, and then the 24 area which we would like to set aside as business. DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 60 1 There was a prior iteration of this plan which had 2 more detail to it on the conceptual parts but, 3 again, in working through that -- to some extent 4 talking to staff also -- it just didn't seam to 08:35PM 5 make sense to us to have buildings for, you know, 6 this use or, you know, a thrift store or a church 7 here or, you know, ball fields exactly there when 8 frankly we really don't know when or where we are 9 going to, you know, put those things. 08:35PM 10 So for purposes of the annexation 11 we would simply like to show kind of the results 12 of where we are thinking of doing things, and as 13 the project progresses as we get money, etcetera, 14 etcetera, then we would come in for-those areas 08:35PM 15 with -- for final approval and platting. 16 So if I can repeat a little bit, 17 for now we are going to rezone the property with 18 PUD for these two uses and then for specific -- 19 the specific uses we are going to do now is the 08:36PM 20 existing Loving Arms with the addition that's 21 going to be put on. Briefly we have met with 22 staff a couple of times, and I think if you look 23 at their report, it is pretty self - explanatory. 24 We are fine with all the comments with one DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 61 1 exception -- it is not really an exception because 2 we spoke with Joe Ryerot in our second meeting and 3 he agreed, in fact he suggested it -- and that is 4 that we have our driveway entrance and eventually 08:36PM 5 at Grand Reserve on the other side of Mill Street 6 has a public street that's going to be going 7 there. Now, he said ideally you would want 400 8 feet of separation. I think we have 290 feet of 9 separation so we are short a little bit. 08:37PM 10 Mr. Ryerot indicated that he would 11 not be requiring us to move our driveway, which is 12 costly, but that he would encourage us to do it if 13 we could find a way to do it with respect to the 14 future planning. And certainly we are open to 08:37PM 15 doing it if it could work for us financially 16 otherwise to do it, but at present I don't think 17 we are going to be able to do that. And I think 18 Mr. Ryerot said that's okay if we can't do it but 19 to keep it in mind if we could. 08:38PM 20 Other than that, we wouldn't have 21 any particular comments. At the moment we don't 22 need -- we have Smith Engineering telling us we 23 don't need additional detention or retention area. 24 We may need to dig out the existing a little bit DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 62 1 deeper but we don't need any additional at this 2 point. So with that I would be happy to answer 3 any questions that anyone has regarding the 4 project. Thank you. 08:38PM 5 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: This is your turn. 6 If you guys do have any questions that you would 7 like to ask about the project, please come on up 8 and make sure you state your name and your 9 address. 08:38PM 10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Tom Lansky, 56 West 11 Highland Drive. And I wonder if you have given us 12 an idea of what is in mind for the B -3 parcel. 13 MR. JOYNER: I can a little bit 14 actually. I would probably defer to Mr. Miller. 08:39PM 15 There is nothing specific that we have in mind. 16 We don't have a user in mind. You know, in 17 general it is whatever the B -3 uses would be, plus 18 I believe there is a list of uses that is part of 19 the PUD agreement the City requests that we 08:39PM 20 exclude, adult uses and things likes that, which 21 we don't have a problem with. But I guess I will 22 see if Mr. Miller would be able to clarify kind of 23 a general categories of uses. 24 MR. MILLER: The zoning ordinance -- the DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 63 1 way zoning ordinances are set up, there is 2 permitted uses in each zoning classification. 3 What's being requested here is a PUD, which when 4 you read through the PUD zoning, you basically -- 08:39PM 5 the petitioner and the City can apply any of the 6 existing zoning classifications or uses within 7 those zoning classifications with limitations. 8 We consistently -- the Plan i 9 Commission and City Council over the past couple 08:40PM 10 of years have looked at the zoning classifications 11 that are in the current zoning ordinance and 12 identified a handful of uses such, as tattoo 13 parlors and massage parlors and magazine stands 14 and things that there may be some concern or maybe 08:40PM 15 an interpretation today of those terms that the 16 community didn't have in 1973 when the zoning 17 ordinance was created. 18 So one of the benefits of the PUD 19 agreement, and particularly an annexation 08:40PM 20 agreement, is that's a contract between the 21 property owner and the City whereby certain 22 limitations can be put on zoning the City doesn't 23 have the luxury of in a straight zoning annexation 24 if the property were zoned and annexed to the DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 64 �I 1 city. It is not part of the packet tonight, but 2 there is a list of uses that consistently in the 3 past couple of years have been attached to PUD 4 agreements and annexation agreements which 08:41PM 5 basically list all the allowable uses, in this 6 case B -3 zoning classifications, and strikes out 7 and makes clear in the agreement what uses are 8 allowable and what aren't. 9 The B -3 typically are retail uses, 08:41PM 10 general commercial uses, but allow for office 11 uses, would allow for general retail activity i 12 uses. 13 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I understand that. I 14 wondered if there was any conception at all of 08:41PM 15 what might be going in, if the church has any idea 16 of what they would like to see in there at this 17 time. 18 MR. JOYNER: We don't really have any 19 idea. I 08:41PM 20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Okay. 21 MR. JOYNER: As I mentioned in my 22 opening remarks, the reason we are asking for this 23 commercial use is because the property to the west 24 has the similar zoning and we feel there may be DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 I 65 1 some synergy with a commercial developer who would 2 come in there. 3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I see. 4 MR. JOYNER: But retail or commercial or 08:42PM 5 office would be the general things that could go 6 there. 7 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Do we have any other 8 questions? 9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: One further thing, is 08:42PM 10 there any plan, conceptual or otherwise, at this 11 time as to how the community center, worship 12 center, where the structure and where the parking 13 would be? I'm one of the parties directly north 14 of the property and it concerns me a- little bit as 08:42PM 15 to how close the structure might be or parking or 16 what have you. 17 MR. JOYNER: There isn't at the moment, 18 and one of the reasons we are presenting this plan 19 as is is because we didn't want to just kind of 08:43PM 20 throw up a building just to show where a building 21 might go and it really not have any relationship 22 to what we do two, three, five, ten, who knows how 23 many years, down the road. I can tell you in 24 general that the PUD agreement and annexation DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 66 1 agreements will incorporate Yorkville's ordinances 2 and the staff comments in their report, which 3 require berming and buffering to make sure that, 4 you know, you are protected from that sort of 08:43PM 5 thing. There are also minimum setbacks from the 6 property line we have to comply with. There are 7 also design guidelines for Yorkville's 8 comprehensive plan, which require that if we were 9 to build a church or worship center, that it 08:44PM 10 would -- residential in character is not quite the 11 right word but that it would be in harmony with 12 the neighborhood. 13 And the other thing is that when we 14 do eventually do a worship center, we would come 08:44PM 15 back before the City with a plan that shows what 16 the building would be, where it is going to be, 17 landscaping, parking, lighting, all that stuff, 18 and so when we came back with that you would have 19 a chance to -- it is not as if we can approve this 08:44PM 20 and we can slip in and get a permit. We are going 21 to have to go through a public process again for 22 that. 23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Okay. 24 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Is that it? Go DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 67 1 ahead. 2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi, I'm Paul 3 VonHolden, and I live at 75 East Highland Drive, 4 just real close to that -- the neighbors down 08:45PM 5 there in Bristol. And a few years ago when this 6 Cross Lutheran put up the day -care center and it 7 was all put forth, I mean, their constant saying 8 was that we want to be a good neighbor, we want to 9 be a good neighbor to the Storybook subdivision 08:45PM 10 there, and so far it has been pretty good. And 11 I'm just hoping that will maintain through the 12 whole process here in the future, because I'm kind 13 of concerned with looking at -- can I borrow this? 14 Looking at this here,- I mean, we 08:45PM 15 have the whole Storybook subdivision right here. 16 I mean, if a ball field was put in right there or 17 parking lots, I mean, that could be very 18 disruptive with our private lives that we have 19 grown to love living where we live. And, I mean, 08:46PM 20 I'm still wanting to be, you know -- go with the 21 good neighbor of Cross Lutheran but I hope Cross 22 Lutheran strongly considers to be a good neighbor 23 to us too. And that would be my point. I guess I 24 don't really have anything to comment on right now DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 68 1 because there is nothing to really structurally 2 comment on as such. So B -3 zoning, that could be 3 alike a strip mall right there? But no gas i 4 station? 08:46PM 5 MR. MILLER: That would require a 6 special use. 7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Okay. And there would i 8 be appropriate berming if the church was built in 9 here with trees and such and -- because the last 08:47PM 10 time I was here, I saw the plan that had a 11 retention pond was going to be right here in the 12 corner but that's now pretty much gone. 13 MR. JOYNER: Correct. 14 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Okay. 08:47PM 15 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: What you see is what 16 they are proposing and they are asking again for 17 zoning and annexation, like I stated earlier. 18 Some of those things like berming -- some of the 19 things can actually become part of the PUD and 08:47PM 20 then they would have to abide by that. And, 21 again, from what I'm hearing -- tell me if I'm 22 wrong -- that will probably be something you would 23 be willing to work with the residents on? 24 MR. JOYNER: Yeah. We are in the DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 69 1 business of trying to be good neighbors so we 2 would want to work with them to make it work. As 3 I said before, all we are physically doing on the 4 site right now is adding this expansion to the 08:47PM 5 existing facility and, you know, the rest of it 6 would have to come in before you -- before the 7 Board again to get final approval of all of that. 8 And the agreement that we are going to put 9 together does talk about putting in berming and 08:48PM 10 landscaping and phasing if and when we build out 11 there. 12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Okay. And there would 13 be no reason or no plan whatsoever to open up east 14 Highland into this church area here? - 08:48PM 15 MR. JOYNER : Yeah. We don't have any 16 plans to do that and we are well aware that the 17 residents do not want that coming through there. 18 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yeah, we shot that 19 down a few years ago, okay. All right. Thank 08:48PM 20 you. 21 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Thank you. Is that 22 it? Can I have a motion to close the public 23 hearing? 24 MR. CROUCH: So moved. DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 70 1 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Second? 2 MR. SCHILLINGER: Second. 3 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Okay. All in favor 4 say aye? 08:49PM 5 (Chorus of ayes.) 6 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO: Opposed, nay? 7 (No response.) 8 (Whereupon a portion of the 9 hearing was had but not herein 10 transcribed.) 11 - - - 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 71 1 STATE OF ILLINOIS ) SS. 2 COUNTY OF DU PAGE ) 3 I, Lynette J. Neal, a Certified 4 Shorthand Reporter, do hereby certify that I 5 reported in shorthand the proceedings had at the 6 hearing of the above - entitled cause and that the 7 foregoing Report of Proceedings, Pages 3 through 8 70, inclusive, is a true, correct, and complete 9 transcript of my shorthand notes so taken at the 10 time and place aforesaid. 11 I further certify that I am neither 12 counsel for nor related to counsel for any of the 13 parties to this suit, nor am I in any way related 14 to any of the parties to this suit, -nor am I in 15 any way interested in the outcome thereof. 16 I further certify that my 17 certificate annexed hereto applies to the original 18 transcript and copies thereof, signed and 19 certified under my hand only. I assume no 20 responsibility for the accuracy of any reproduced 21 copies not made under my control or direction. 22 23 24 DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 72 1 In testimony whereof, I have 2 hereunto set my hand this 8th day of July, A.D., 3 2008. 4 5 G 6 Lynette J. eal 7 CSR No. 084 - 004363 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030