Plan Commission Minutes 2010 11-10-10 APPROVED 3/9/11
UNITED CITY OF YORKVILLE
PLAN COMMISSION
Library Historic Room
Wednesday,November 10, 2010 7:00pm
Commission Members in Attendance:
Anne Lucietto, Chairman
Tom Lindblom Clarence Holdiman
Mike Crouch Charles Kraupner
Sandra Adams Jack Jones
Jeff Baker Jane Winninger
Other City Staff
Krysti Barksdale-Noble, Economic Development Director
Other Guests
Matt Schury—Kendall County Record Robyn Sutcliff, Alderman
Christine Vitosh, Depo Court Diane Teeling, Alderman
Angie Broholm Gary Golinski, Alderman
Jim LaPorta Carlo Colosimo
Mike Taylor Jackie Taylor
Fred DuSell Eric Winter
Amanda Posuch Tony Morelli
Tim Gleason George Gilson, Alderman
John Lux Larry Merz
Dan Kramer, Attorney Lynn Dubajic
Steve Lord,Beacon News Steve/Ultimate Sports Bar
Susan Lambke
Chairman Anne Lucietto called the meeting to order at 7:00pm. Roll call was taken and a
quorum was established.
Previous Meeting Minutes -July 14, 1010
Lindblom moved and Adams seconded a motion to approve the minutes as read. Voice
vote approval.
Chairman Lucietto swore in those who would speak at the Public Hearings.
Public Hearing
1. PC 2010-12 James Christofferson and Jennifer Schwarz,petitioners, filed an
application requesting an amendment to the Planned Unit Development
Agreement dated June 11, 1998 for the purpose of rezoning the three parcels
on Van Emmon St. (Lots 1, 2 and 3) from the United City of Yorkville R-21)
Duplex PUD to B-2 General Business District. The real property consists of a
total of approximately 1.02 acres located south of Van Emmon Street and
1
west of Hydraulic Avenue, Yorkville. (Later in meeting this location was
clarified).
A motion was made by Crouch and seconded by Holdiman to enter into Public
Hearing at 7:02pm.
(See Court Reporter's transcript)
Public Hearing was closed at 7:11 pm on a motion by Jones and second by Lindblom.
Voice vote approval.
Discussion:
Baker expressed concerns about the topography and how the property would be
designed since it is very steep. He said the duplex now approved for this property
would need more parking. Attorney Kramer said the square footage of the duplex
would determine the amount of parking needed and an engineering review would also
be necessary.
Action Item
i. PUD Amendment for Rezoning
Crouch made a motion to approve the PUD amendment rezoning, subject to staff
comments. Jones seconded this motion.
Roll call: Holdiman-yes, Crouch-yes, Kraupner-yes, Adams-yes, Jones-yes, Baker-
yes, Winninger-yes, Lindblom-yes, Lucietto-yes. Passed 9-0.
2. PC 2010-13 Ultimate Sports Bar on behalf of Post Time Catering, Inc.
Petitioner, has filed an application with the City of Yorkville requesting to
amend Title 10, Chapter 7, Article C of the Municipal Zoning Code to define
and identify licensed off-track betting and inter-track wagering locations or
facilities as allowed Special Use within the B-2 General Business District.
A motion was made by Baker and seconded by Jones to open this Public Hearing at
7:15pm. Voice vote approval.
(See Court Reporter's transcript)
The Hearing was closed at 7:20pm on a motion and second by Lindblom and Adams.
Voice vote approval, one nay.
Discussion:
There was a brief discussion of the B2 status and Krysti noted that this type of facility
must be in a business or manufacturing district and detailed other criteria that also
must be met. Baker questioned the possible areas in Yorkville where this facility
could be located and the possibility of businesses changing their zoning to become
eligible. However, Crouch noted there are only 6 licenses allowed per racetrack with
the exception of one track.
2
Winninger asked if research had been conducted on nearby facilities. Krysti
addressed this in a memo and said an annual report is issued that details taxes,
locations of OTB's, funds, etc.
Lindblom then moved to recommend approval of the requested text amendment and
Crouch seconded this motion.
Roll call: Crouch-yes, Kraupner-yes, Adams-no, Jones-yes, Baker-no, Winninger-
yes, Lindblom-yes, Holdiman-yes, Lucietto-yes. Passed 7-2.
3. PC 2010-14 Ultimate Sports Bar on behalf of Post Time Catering, Inc.,
Petitioner, filed an application with the City of Yorkville requesting a Special
Use within the B-2 General Business District for the purpose of operating an
off-track betting facility. The real property consists of approximately 3 acres
located within the Cimarron Ridge (Towns Crossing) development
immediately south of Route 34 and immediately west of Cannonball Trail.
A motion was made and seconded by Jones and Adams at 7:30pm to open the Public
Hearing. Voice vote approval.
(See Court Reporter's transcript)
At 8:30pm a motion was made and seconded by Crouch and Jones to close the
Hearing.
Discussion:
Baker stated that he supported this facility. Winninger questioned if the OTB
facilities have committed to be in the community a certain length of time. A 3-5 year
lease would be undertaken. Ms. Adams commented that she was not in favor of this
and that this type of facility was not in the best interest of Yorkville. Jones asked
what the Yorkville Police opinion was. AYPD officer present said there had been no
problems with the facility in North Aurora and it did not require any special security.
Kraupner questioned if the amusement tax would be applicable to an OTB. Krysti
will request the opinion of the City Attorney. Crouch said the material was well
presented and this would be a revenue enhancer.
A motion and second were made by Lindblom and Jones to approve the Special Use
requested, subject to staff recommendations.
Roll call: Kraupner-yes, Adams-no, Winninger-yes, Jones-yes, Baker-yes, Lindblom-
yes, Holdiman-yes, Crouch-yes, Lucietto-yes. Passed 8-1.
New Business:
4. Plan Commission meeting schedule for 2011.
The meeting schedule for this Commission will continue to be the second Wednesday
of the month.
3
Additional Business:
Chairman Lucietto reported the Planning Consortium will meet November 30 to
discuss the condition of the roadways. It will be held at the Historic Courthouse at
7:00pm.
There was no further business and the meeting was adjourned at 8:35pm
Adjournment:
The meeting was adjourned at 8:35pm on a motion and second by Jones and Baker.
Minutes by Marlys Young
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1 PLAN COMMISSION MEETING
1 UNITED CITY OF YORKVILLE, ILLINOIS
1
WMAL
1
1
1 REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS had at the public
hearing portion of the meeting of the
1 above-entitled matter taken before CHRISTINE M .
' VITOSH, C . S . R . , on November 10 , 2010 , 2010 , at the
hour of 7 : 00 p . m. , at 902 Game Farm Road in the
1 City of Yorkville, Illinois .
1
1
1
1
D-925710 REPO • COURT
1 reporting service
1300 Iroquois Avenue,Suite 205
1 Naperville, IL 60563
630-983-0030 • Fax: 630-778-4824
e-mail: depocourt@depocourt.com • www.depocourt.com
2
1 P R E S E N T :
2 MS . ANNE LUCIETTO, Chairman,
3 MR . TOM LINDBLOM,
' 4 MR . CLARENCE HOLDIMAN,
5 MR . MICHAEL CROUCH,
6 MS . SANDRA ADAMS,
' 7 MR . JACK JONES,
' 8 MR . CHARLES KRAUPNER,
9 MR . JEFF BAKER,
' 10 MS . JANE WINNINGER .
' 11
12 ALSO PRESENT :
' 13 Ms . Krysti Noble, Community Development
' 14 Director,
15 Ms . Marlys Young .
' 16
18
' 19
20
21
' 22
' 23
24
' Depo•Court Reporting Service (630) 983-0030
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t1 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : We have two public
' 2 hearings on the agenda for today. I am going to
3 ask that anyone who is going to speak, kindly
' 4 stand and raise your right hand and repeat after
' 07:00PM 5 me .
6 (Witnesses sworn . )
' 7 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : I ' d entertain a
' 8 motion to open our public hearings .
9 (Enter Mr . Baker . )
07:01PM 10 MR . CROUCH : So moved .
11 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Do we have a second?
12 MR. HOLDIMAN : Second .
13 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : All in favor say
' 14 aye .
15 (A chorus of ayes . )
' 16 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Not in favor, nay .
17 (No response . )
18 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : We ' re going to open
' 19 PC 2010-12 , which is James Christofferson and
07:01PM 20 Jennifer Schwarz .
21 Is there someone here to present on
' 22 their behalf?
' 23 MR . KRAMER : I am.
24 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Mr . Kramer .
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' 1 MR. KRAMER: How are you doing this
' 2 evening? This property -- Krysti ' s highlighted it
3 in red on the map behind Mr . Crouch -- is located
4 on the south side of Van Emmon, and it seems like
' 07:O1PM 5 about 40 years ago when I had hair and first
6 started here it used to be kind of an overflow
7 yard for the Homer Dixon Implement Company . They
8 stored farm machinery down there before they would
9 bring it to their sales building, which was on the
' 07:01PM 10 west side of Route 47 right by the river .
11 Before that it had been a coal
12 plant , and after Homer Dixon, Keith Kushkowski
' 13 (phonetic) did radiator repair and so on down
' 14 there . He came to the City several years ago and
07:02PM 15 did a PUD for duplex and residential use, and
' 16 frankly, it just hasn ' t taken off or developed .
17 The owners do not have an end-user
18 in place, but given the current economy and with
' 19 the traffic getting heavier all the time on Van
' 07:02PM 20 Emmon, they felt that it might be a better use of
21 the property with a B-2 neighborhood business-type
' 22 designation .
23 Now, the good news on a B-2 type
24 neighborhood business is it ' s a lower impact-type
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1 business . It ' s a destination; it ' s not a
' 2 McDonald ' s 24 -hour restaurant .
3 One of the keys with the B-2-type
4 use, and I think Staff addressed, Krysti did well
07:02PM 5 in her Staff report to you and at Plan Council ,
6 usually B-2 is the older-type downtown with
' 7 lot-line to lot-line coverage, and here we are
' 8 certainly not asking for that . We have agreed
9 that there would be a front setback .
07:03PM 10 And if it turned out to be that type
' 11 of a destination place, it could be a dentist ' s
12 office, a realtor ' s office, a lawyer ' s office,
13 something in that nature , there would be no reason
14 that the parking couldn ' t even actually be at the
07:03PM 15 rear of the building and have the building not
' 16 sitting right on Van Emmon, but , you know, the
17 setback from the street .
18 So we think it fits in with the
' 19 properties . The brown that Krysti shows on there
07:03PM 20 to the east are of the same type of zoning . I
21 think Cheryl Lee , who is either the owner or under
' 22 contract on one of the properties , came in at a
23 City Council meeting within the last two or
24 three months just to verify that they still had
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1 the right to that kind of low impact business use
2 along Van Emmon, and was certainly encouraged by
3 the City Council .
4 So I ' d love to tell you we ' ve got an
07:03PM 5 end-user here tonight , we don ' t , but the type of
6 uses in a B-2 neighborhood are very, very
7 restricted .
8 We think it would be an asset to the
9 community, and that ' s how the property owners
07:04PM 10 would intend to market the property if you saw fit
' 11 to recommend positive zoning to the City, and we
12 have no problem with any of the recommendations
13 made by Staff .
' 14 MR . LINDBLOM : Dan?
07:04PM 15 MR . KRAMER: Yes , sir .
' 16 MR . LINDBLOM : I am a little confused .
17 You indicated this property is the red?
18 MS . NOBLE : No, it ' s the three
19 highlighted in blue .
07:04PM 20 MR . KRAMER: I ' m sorry, my color --
21 MR . KRAUPNER : It ' s the blue area .
' 22 MR . KRAMER: Yes . I ' m oin to have to
g g
' 23 do something with my eyesight at this stage . So
24 we ' ll be happy to answer any questions we can .
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1 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Okay . If you ' re
2 done , I will entertain a motion to close public
3 hearing PC 2010-12 .
4 MR . KRAMER: I don ' t know if there is
07:05PM 5 members of the audience here .
6 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Oh, yes . Is there
7 anyone that wishes to speak on this particular
8 item?
9 MS . LAMBKE : I ' m not sure where it ' s
07:05PM 10 located . I am on Van Emmon, but I ' m not sure
11 where it is . Where is it at?
12 MR . KRAMER: Mike , can you point? I
13 don ' t think I can get over the table there .
14 MR . CROUCH : These three parcels right
07:052M 15 are here .
' 16 MS . LAMBKE : Is it west of Hydraulic or
17 east of Van Emmon?
18 MR . CROUCH : It ' s on East Van Emmon,
' 19 it ' s on the --
07:05PM 20 MR . KRAMER: It ' s east of Hydraulic .
21 MR . LINDBLOM : East of Mill also .
22 MR . CROUCH : East of Mill on the south
23 side of the road .
24 MR . BAKER : South of Hydraulic .
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1 MR . CROUCH : Hydraulic is way up here .
2 MR . KRAMER: Oh, you know what ? I ' m
3 thinking Heustis .
4 MR. CROUCH : We were a little confused
07:05PM 5 by that in the packet , but we kind of knew that
6 Hydraulic and Van Emmon are parallel .
7 MR . KRAMER: Heustis is the south one ,
8 Heustis .
9 MS . LAMBKE : Yes .
07:06PM 10 MR . KRAMER: Show her where Heustis is .
11 MR . CROUCH : Heustis is way over here .
12 MR . BAKER : Find it on the map .
13 MR . LINDBLOM : Do you know where the old
14 right-of-way used to be?
07:06PM 15 MR . BAKER : It still is right-of-way .
16 MR . LINDBLOM : It ' s kind of where you go
17 back into what was the muffler repair place .
18 MS . LAMBKE : Okay .
19 MR . LINDBLOM : How about right across
07:06PM 20 from fire number 325 , the address right across
21 from there?
22 MS . LAMBKE : What is it now? Is it just
23 vacant land?
24 MR . KRAMER: Just vacant .
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1 MS . LAMBKE : Huh?
2 MR . CROUCH : It ' s covered in trees,
3 it ' s --
' 4 MR . LINDBLOM : It ' s wooded .
07:06PM 5 MR . CROUCH : -- very wooded .
6 MS . LAMBKE : So they are going to take
' 7 out all of the trees?
' 8 MR . BAKER : Most of them have already
9 been taken out . The property is -- You know the
' 07:06PM 10 landscaping place that moved in down there? It ' s
' 11 across the street from it .
12 MR . CROUCH : These three lots right
13 here .
' 14 MR . BAKER: Right .
07:06PM 15 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Hang on, you guys .
' 16 I need you to state your name for the record and I
17 also need to swear you in because if you speak
18 during the public hearing, you must be sworn in .
19 MS . LAMBKE : Oh, I ' m sorry .
07:06PM 20 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Is there anyone else
21 who believes they may speak during one of the
' 22 public hearings this evening? Kindly stand and
' 23 we ' ll go through this one more time, okay? I just
24 want to make sure that we -- So if you would raise
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1 your right hand .
2 (Witnesses sworn . )
3 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Thank you .
' 4 MS . LAMBKE : I am on Van Emmon . I ' m
' 07:07PM 5 just not quite sure according to Mr . Kramer where
6 it ' s located . I am 339 East Van Emmon .
7 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : What ' s your name?
8 MS . LAMBKE : Susan Lambke .
9 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : There we go . Thank
07:07PM 10 you .
11 MR . CROUCH : Are you clear now where
12 it ' s located?
13 MS . LAMBKE : Yes .
' 14 MR . CROUCH : This is -- this is Mill ,
07:07PM 15 this is Heustis .
' 16 MR . KRAMER: That ' s what I was thinking
' 17 she was referencing .
18 MR . CROUCH : It ' s right out here .
' 19 MR . JONES : Thank you, Vanna .
' 07:07PM 20 MR . CROUCH : You ' re welcome . No extra
21 charge .
22 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Is there any other
' 23 questions or comment for this part of the
24 project?
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I (No response . )
2 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : No? Okay . Then I
3 entertain a motion to close public hearing PC
' 4 2010-12 .
07:08PM 5 MR . JONES : So moved .
6 MR . BAKER : Don ' t we get to speak during
7 the public hearing?
8 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : No .
9 MR . BAKER : By law we do . And I ' ve been
' 07:08PM 10 saying for years we ' re wrong .
11 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Okay . We have a
12 motion on the floor . Do we have a second?
13 MR. LINDBLOM : Second .
' 14 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : All in favor say
07:09PM 15 aye .
' 16 (A chorus of ayes . )
17 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Not in favor, nay.
18 MR . BAKER : Nay .
19
(A discussion was had off
07:12PM 20 the record . )
21 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : And now, moving
' 22 along, I entertain a motion to open public hearing
' 23 PC 2010-13 for the Ultimate Sports Bar, Inc . on
24 behalf of Post Time Catering .
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1 Do we have a motion to open?
2 MR. BAKER : So moved, Baker .
3 MR . JONES : Second .
4 MS . ADAMS : Second .
07:12PM 5 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : We have a motion and
6 second . All in favor say aye .
(A chorus of ayes . )
8 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Not in favor, nay.
9 (No response . )
07:12PM 10 MR . LINDBLOM : I think you might want to
' 11 explain . As I understand, this is going to be in
12 two parts .
13 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Yeah .
' 14 MR . LINDBLOM : The first part is a
07:12PM 15 text --
16 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Correct .
' 17 MR. LINDBLOM : -- change, and the second
18 part would be an actual change in zoning .
19 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Correct . So
07:12PM 20 basically what we are looking for is a text change
21 to go from -- okay, I ' ll read the rest of this --
22 It says Ultimate Sports Bar, Inc . , on behalf of
' 23 Post Time Catering, Inc . , petitioner, has filed an
24 application with the United City of Yorkville ,
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I 1 Kendall County, Illinois , requesting uestin to amend
13
2 Title 10 , Chapter 7 , Article C of the Municipal
3 Zoning Code to define and identify licensed
1 4 off-track betting and intertrack wagering
g g
07:13PM 5 locations or facilities as an allowed Special Use
6 within the B-2 General Business District , and for
7 this they are asking for only a text amendment to
8 make it -- to make it a legal activity.
9 MR . LINDBLOM : Make it legal .
I07:132M 10 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Correct . Right .
' 11 And then we will be having further discussion at
12 another public hearing which will have to do with
' 13 the special use itself and the location .
' 14 So for right now it ' s just the text
07:13PM 15 amendment to the municipal code . Go ahead .
16 MR . KRAMER : For the
record, Daniel J.
1 17 Kramer . I ' m representing each of the petitioners
18 tonight . On the text amendment , obviously it ' s
f19 the enabling legislation g g that would allow us to
' 07:14PM 20 appear in front of you to ask for the special use ,
21 so as petitioners , we ' re very much in favor of
22 that .
' 23 We think there is some real
24 positives for the City that , first of all, we
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' 1 think it creates good revenue . We mentioned at
2 Plan Council when we were there , this area has had
3 a long history of being active in the standardbred
4 industry, which are the sulkey or the trotter,
07:14PM 5 pacer horses that run at night .
6 We have had three or four drivers
7 that have lived in this area and grown up in this
' 8 area , we ' ve got a number of breeders in the
9 two-county area, Kendall and DeKalb, that are out
' 07:14PM 10 here , we ' ve had a number of trainers out here .
1 11 We frankly have in Kendall County
12 the leading all-time harness driver, Dave Magee,
13 who has been at it for a long time and runs the
14 Sears catalog store over in Plano and has been a
07:15PM 15 long-time resident of the area . So there is a
16 nice connection with it .
17 The petitioners here are people who
18 are experienced with this operation, and you will
' 19 hear -- in the second hearing tonight , you will
07:152m 20 hear hands-on that there have not been any type of
21 security, violence or negative aspect in any
' 22 community they are in, so we hope you look from
23 the Staff presentation tonight positively on the
24 ordinance or text amendment change, and then we ' ll
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1 give our presentation during the second one .
2 Thank you .
3 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : All right . I ' m
4 going to ask Krysti to speak on behalf of the City
07:15PM 5 on this one .
6 MS . NOBLE : Sure . The text amendment
7 will identify off-track betting, or OTB
8 facilities , in a B-2 District, and the Staff makes
9 the recommendation that the B-2 would be the only
07:15PM 10 district that this would be located in . The
11 previous application you just heard, they were
12 rezoned a B-2 .
13 To clarify, the special -- the
14 conditions of their amended petition only allow
07:16PM 15 uses that were in effect as of the date that they
' 16 entered into an application, so an OTB would not
17 be permitted as a use on the lots on Van Emmon .
18 So that ' s one thing .
19 When we look at the B-2 District ,
' 07:16PM 20 Staff did an analysis and found that their
21 criteria for citing an OTB facility, which is
22 handed down by the state actually through the
' 23 Illinois Racing Board, there were 77 parcels that
24 would be able to qualify in regards to their
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1 location, near a school , near residences , 50 or
2 more registered voters , or near a house of
3 worship, and a school is defined as an elementary
4 school or secondary school , so not a daycare
07:16PM 5 facility .
6 When Staff did the review, we did
7 look at other communities I contacted other
8 communities that have other uses of OTB uses, and
9 the four that I did contact , I did list out Aurora
07:17PM 10 is one, and they have the identified use as an
11 intertrack wagering facility and it ' s a special
12 use and it ' s allowed in their business and
13 manufacturing districts ; Mokena, the identify
Y
14 them as off-track betting facilities , it ' s a
07:17PM 15 special use, and it ' s in their commercial
16 district; and Buffalo Grove , it ' s also a special
17 use and they identify it in their business
18 district , and only one district .
19 So Staff ' s recommendation is if Y ou
07:17PM 20 do go forward with recommendation of this text
21 amendment , that it would only be allowed in the
22 B-2 District , that the definition would be
23 identified for an off-track betting facility as an
24 intertrack wagering facility or location licensed
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1 by the Illinois Racing Board whose physical
2 premises , structure and equipment is utilized by
3 the legal wager on the outcome of a simultaneously
4 televised horse race taking place at an Illinois
' 07:18PM 5 race track or a track -- race track outside of
6 Illinois as prescribed by the Illinois Horse
7 Racing Act of 1975 as amended .
8 And the final recommendation of
9 Staff is that the off-track betting facility will
07:18PM 10 be an ancillary use to a restaurant or food
11 establishment , and the OTB component of the
12 facility be no more than 45 percent of the gross
13 floor area . That ' s to maintain that this wagering
g g
14 component does not become a primary use in any
07:18PM 15 location .
16 With those criteria set in P lace,
17 there is probably, out of those 77 parcels that
18 are zoned 11-2 , about six that would qualify for an
19 OTB facility Y in the city, and that ' s Staff ' s
' 07:18PM 20 analysis .
21 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Okay . Regarding the
22 text amendment , is there anybody that has Y Y s an Y
23 questions about it either for the City or for
24 Dan?
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1 (No response . )
2 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Okay . Okay .
3 Looking for a motion to close --
1 4 MR . LINDBLOM : I would move to close the
07:19PM 5 public hearing .
6 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Thank you . Do we
7 have a second?
' 8 MS . ADAMS : Second .
9 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : All in favor , say
07:19PM 10 aye .
11 (A chorus of ayes . )
12 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Not in favor, nay.
r13 MR . BAKER : Nay .
14 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Okay .
15 (A discussion was had off
16 the record . )
17 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Now I ' d entertain a
18 motion to open PC 2010-14 per our discussion
19 earlier . Do we have a motion, please?
1 07:29PM 20 MR . JONES : So moved .
21 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Do we have a second?
22 MS . ADAMS : Second .
23 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : All in favor, say
24 aye .
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1 (A chorus of ayes . )
2 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : We are now in public
3 hearing for PC 2010-14 , Ultimate Sports Bar, Inc . ,
4 for the special use .
07:29PM 5 MR. KRAMER: I have no further .
6 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Are there any
7 questions? This one is for the special use .
8 Specifically, I ' ll read it into the record again,
9 as we did the other . Ultimate Sports Bar, Inc . ,
' 07:29PM 10 on behalf of Post Time Catering, Inc . , Petitioner,
11 has filed an application with the United City of
12 Yorkville , Kendall County, Illinois , requesting a
13 special use within the B-2 General Business
14 District for the purpose of operating an off-track
07:29PM 15 betting facility .
' 16 The real property consists of
17 approximately three acres , located within the
18 Cimmaron Ridge, Towns Crossing development
19 immediately south of Route 34 and immediately west
07:30PM 20 of Cannonball Trail , Yorkville , Illinois .
21 Okay . For those that were sworn in,
22 does anyone have any questions? Do you have
23 anything, Dan? Okay, go ahead .
24 MR . KRAMER: Sure .
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I MR . CROUCH : You asked
that question . 20
2 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : You indicated you
3 hadn ' t , so okay .
4 MR . KRAMER: Just briefly, Dan Kramer,
07:30PM 5 appearing on behalf of both petitioners for the
6 special use . In terms of location, for the
7 record -- because she ' s got to have that word
8 picture -- we ' re at the southwest corner of the
9 intersection of Cannonball Trail and Route 34 , and
07:30PM 10 the -- again, if my color fails me, the purple
11 halo that Krysti drew on the map was the state
12 halo that you had to draw and check on registered
13 voters and that was one of our first steps . In
14 fact , the number was below 40 of registered
' 07:31PM 15 voters , so it wasn ' t a special-type notice that
16 had to go out , but we were mindful of that .
17 The L-shaped building that appears
18 at the top of that southwest corner of the
19 intersection is where the proposed facility would
' 07:31PM 20 go .
21 Now, in past times that bar that was
22 at the top leg of it, the closest to 34 , was known
23 as the Big Easy, and that has changed .
24 Steve Koulis , the operator of
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1 Ultimate Sports Bar, is here tonight , and when I
2 mentioned the petitioners here have had some past
3 experience, Steve was involved in both the Mokena
4 bar where the off-track betting facility was
07:31PM 5 located, and more recently is associated with the
6 Foundry, which is over by Fox Valley Villages in
7 Aurora .
' 8 I think the one that maybe some of
9 you -- given geographics here and as far as ease
07:31PM 10 to get to from this area , there is one off of
11 Randall Road right between North Aurora and
12 Aurora .
13 And again, when they first went to
14 North Aurora years ago, it was an old Hilton Inn
07:32PM 15 right by the Tollway on Route 31 . It was an
16 incredibly controversial subject . It was the
17 first one in the area , and North Aurora had a lot
18 of experience with it . It was positive . It
19 brought no criminal element to town .
07:32PM 20 It ' s the type of use that if some
21 people don ' t believe in gambling, I know there is
22 people who very strongly are abhorred that the
23 State of Illinois runs a lottery, that it runs
24 gambling . It ' s the type of facility that one does
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22
1 not have to go to, they ' re not forced to go to,
2 but the facilities are set up so there is a total
3 break between this use and the food serving areas
4 of them.
07:32PM 5 If you went to the one in North
6 Aurora , it ' s a lovely upper-end restaurant and has
7 the OTB facility behind it totally separated off .
8 Here the design is in kind of the
9 corner of the building going south from the light
07:33PM 10 that Steve operates Ultimate Sports Bar currently,
Y
11 and what they ' re doing is they ' re taking one of
12 those units that ' s tucked kind of in the corner on
13 the north/south access that frankly hasn ' t been
14 occupied since Moe Kapadia had built the center .
07:33PM 15 It doesn ' t have good exposure .
16 That ' s where the OTB facility is
17 going to be remodeled and put in . It will have a
18 separate exterior entrance, and frankly, when that
19 facility is closed, there would be g lass doors and
07:33PM 20 security that would separate the OTB from the
21 restaurant facility .
' 22 Steve ' s taken the restaurant and
' 23 turned it from being a rather younger age group in
24 there to a totally family-oriented setting these
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23
1 days .
' 2 It is a sports bar, they have tons
3 of televisions in there, they have a lot of the
4 youth sporting groups come there and use the
07:33PM 5 facilities with their parents , and he ' s been very
6 successful , so he certainly doesn ' t want to
' 7 introduce any use that interferes with the
' 8 business that he has .
9 They have two times that they get
' 07:34PM 10 use in terms of people who are interested in
11 racing, the thoroughbreds are during the day, the
12 harness horses start about seven o ' clock at night ,
13 and Jeff Kras , who is here from the track
' 14 facility, can explain how they operate the
07:34PM 15 facility, the security they have, and the revenue
' 16 share that would be for the local communities on a
' 17 state basis .
18 But again, we think it ' s a positive
' 19 to the community . I think your Economic
07:34PM 20 Development Director is going to tell you tonight
21 that you have some other communities who would
22 love to have this use come to them and not to the
' 23 City of Yorkville .
24 Jeff, some of the concerns you had
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1 about multiple locations available for it, it ' s
' 2 not like two car dealers or Burger King and
3 McDonald ' s together . You ' ve got to pass the
' 4 hurdle to get the state license, number one, and
07:35PM 5 there is simply -- even a town the size of Aurora,
6 you don ' t have two of them on top of one another
' 7 competing . You ' ve got to have a market share and
8 a market area , and this would service an entirely
9 different market area .
07:35PM 10 So we hope you look favorably upon
11 it . I ' m going to let Jeff talk about the actual
12 OTB facility itself, and then we ' ll be happy to
' 13 answer any other questions we can . Thank you .
' 14 MR . KRAS : Good evening . My name is
07:35PM 15 Jeff Kras . I am with Hawthorne Race Course . The
' 16 off-track betting network was initiated back in
1 17 late 1980 ' s , as we represented before . I think
18 they ' re just shy of 30 venues that are currently
19 licensed in Illinois .
07:35PM 20 The one thing, for purposes of
21 competition, it ' s unlikely that there would be
' 22 more than one applicant for P
p ur oses of a
' 23 Yorkville venue . When you look at the
24 organizations that can operate these types of
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1 venues , it ' s limited to race tracks , which is what
2 was represented . There are six in Illinois .
3 Fairmount and Quad City Downs, which
' 4 are to our western and southern perimeters , would
07:36PM 5 not be eligible for purposes of opening up a venue
6 here in Yorkville because I believe, as the
7 statute states , a venue has to be within it ' s
' 8 either 130 or 135 miles of your home venue , which
9 in our case is Hawthorne Race Course , so that
' 07:36PM 10 would preclude both Fairmount and Quad-City Downs
11 from opening a venue here, so that would leave
12 Arlington and Balmoral and Maywood Park .
13 However, it ' s really a small group .
' 14 We ' re not looking to compete with one another .
07:36PM 15 We ' re all supporting the same product ; that being
16 horse racing .
' 17 When you look at -- when you look at
18 these venues supporting horse racing, it ' s not
' 19 just supporting that Hawthorne Race Course , it ' s
07:36PM 20 supporting everyone within the state of Illinois ,
21 the breeding industry, the trainers , the owners ,
22 the riders , the race tracks . It ' s not just
' 23 supporting Hawthorne, it ' s supporting Arlington
24 Race Course . So it ' s not in our best interests to
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26
1 compete against us here in Yorkville or any other
2 venue .
3 I know Aurora comes to mind for
' 4 purposes of North Aurora, our other venue, which
' 07:37PM 5 is at the Foundry, is really on the boundary of
6 Naperville and Aurora , so you can call it two in
7 Aurora, but it ' s really -- it ' s really in a
8 separate area, so there is really -- there is no
9 idea that there is going to be any issue of
1 07:37PM 10 competition here in Yorkville .
' 11 But for purposes of our venue, over
12 the past several years , all of the tracks have
13 looked to develop a strategic alliance with
14 existing operators to complement a business ; in
07:37PM 15 this case, it ' s the Ultimate Sports Bar . We are
1 16 not the main attraction . We are there to, as I
17 said, complement an existing business , business
18 plan .
' 19 This operation is regulated by the
' 07:37PM 20 state . We take it very seriously . This sport has
21 full integrity . If it ' s not , we find it and we
22 rectify it .
23 For the purposes of our operations ,
24 our operations , we do open up our doors about
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27
1 11 o ' clock, we normally go to the last Illinois
1 2 race , in Illinois , which is the harness , and it
3 normally concludes somewhere around midnight or
' 4 before .
' 07:38PM 5 For purposes of security, everything
6 we do, everything we do, every transaction that ' s
7 made , is observed and audited by the State of
' 8 Illinois daily . We do our own audits internally .
9 It ' s a system that on a national -- Actually it ' s
07:38PM 10 a hemisphere balancing system whereby the
' 11 integrity of the information is at our disposal at
12 any given point in time .
' 13 I can -- an individual , just as an
' 14 example , in California, that ' s wagering on one of
07:38PM 15 my races , I can tell you what window he went to to
16 make that bet , the amount of the bet the horse
17 that he bet on, the type of wager made . That ' s
18 how much information is available to us to ensure
19 that no one manipulates the system.
' 07:39PM 20 For purposes of security, we are
21 going to have surveillance in and outside of our
' 22 venue . I ' m not going to represent that we haven ' t
23 come without incident in some of our other venues .
24 We are in a business that obviously manages money .
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1 We have money on premises just like a bank or
7 any
' 2 other business , so we take -- we take a lot of
3 sensitivity towards ensuring our patrons , along
4 with our employees , are in a safe environment .
07:39PM 5 We ' ve got protocol in place
6 internally with our security systems , with our
7 surveillance systems , in conjunction with
Y 7 the
8 village for purposes of police protection . Some
9 of our satellite venues , joint ventures we ' ve
' 07:39PM 10 mentioned, Mokena, Naperville, Aurora we have
e
11 what ' s called a fob system.
12 All of our managers. and all of our
' 13 employees carry key chain that looks like Y Y e your
14 automatic control for your car to open up a door .
07:39PM 15 If there is a hint of any -- any, any, any danger
16 whatsoever, the activate to that panic button and
17 hopefully there will be a response within minutes
18 for purposes of the village police .
19 In m -
y tenure with the off-track
' 07:40PM 20 betting parlors , of course we have incidences ,
21 we ' ve had -- we ' ve had a couple of robberies .
22 I ' ve been in business for 20 ears • I know
y of only
23 one robbery where they were successful . I know of
24 other attempts for purchases , but this is going to
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29
1 go along with any business patrons potentially may
' 2 be set to upset the environment .
3 We are aware of our environment and
4 we take necessary precautions to ensure the safety
07:40PM 5 and integrity of both of our patrons and our
6 employees . We take it very, very seriously .
7 I think when you look at -- our
8 books are open to anybody . When you look at our
9 liability claims , experiences with respect to our
07:40PM 10 on-track operations or off-track betting venues , I
' 11 think you ' re going to find a very clean record for
12 purposes of incidences because they ' re not there .
' 13 We do -- we do ensure the integrity of the
14 environment .
07:41PM 15 I don ' t know if there is any other
16 questions , I mean, this is -- this is a legitimate
17 business that we take seriously, that ' s licensed
18 by the State of Illinois , that ' s audited by the
19 State of Illinois , and it ' s hopefully a venue
' 07:41PM 20 that ' s going to invest in this community for
21 purposes of what we would contribute not only to
' 22 the municipality, but also to the -- to Kendall
23 County as well .
24 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Are there any
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30
' 1 questions in the audience? I think you had one,
' 2 right? If you would, when you stand up, we are
3 recording this with the court reporter, and I ' ll
' 4 need you to state your name and your address,
07:41PM 5 please .
6 MR . LAPORTA : Sure . My name is Jim
7 LaPorta , I live at 524 Poplar in Yorkville, and I
8 can appreciate the presentation and the industry
9 you are affiliated with, but I do have a couple of
07:41PM 10 questions so that I can have a better
11 understanding of what is it you want to
12 accomplish .
' 13 You mentioned some criteria where
14 you could not site these off-track betting
07:42PM 15 facilities , schools being one and, you know, a few
' 16 others .
17 The facilities that you looked into
18 that were in Mokena and North Aurora and in other
19 locations , my question is did those facilities
' 07:42PM 20 establish themselves after those communities were
21 more fully developed than we are here in
22 Yorkville? That ' s one uestion . Does anybody
q Y Y
23 have an answer for that ?
24 MS . NOBLE : Yes . I can tell you from my
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1 research with Buffalo Grove they approved roved theirs
2 just last year . They were located within an
3 apartment complex and they did have to -- they
4 actually did a separate meeting with the
P g
' 07:42PM 5 members -- or the residents of the apartment
6 complex to let them know about the operation, how
7 it worked, the hours things of that nature .
8 It went into an existing bar and
9 grill kind of similar to the location here , and
07:43PM 10 they had their public hearing, they P resented, and
11 in my memo, they did present a very thorough,
12 vetted interview and survey of other communities
13 in regards to police calls for service, that was
' 14 found they were low in incidence and frequency .
07:43PM 15 It ranged from, you know, volume --
16 low volume to like keys being ocked out
g
17 drunkenness , things you would, you know,
' 18 associate, so yes , there have been some that were
19 done further along when the community was
t07:43PM 20 established .
' 21 MR. LAPORTA : So it would be fair to say
22 then that a lot of those facilities have only --
' 23 have established themselves as communities , have
24 already developed based on your response , is that
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32
1 correct ? I want to make sure I understand .
2 MS . NOBLE : From the ones that I
3 researched, but if you look, there are some that
4 have been around since, let ' s see , within the late
07:43PM 5 80 ' s , early 90 ' s , in communities like Orland that
6 was still growing, Orland Park .
7 MR. LAPORTA : I used to live in Orland
8 Park . I am familiar with that area .
9 The other question I have to
07:44PM 10 follow-up with that , since Yorkville is in the
11 process of developing and the brakes have been put
12 on recently because of economic conditions , has
13 any thought been given if you approve this
14 facility what other types of facilities you may be
07:44PM 15 able to put into those vacant storefronts or the
' 16 surrounding area?
17 Would this facility deter other
18 industries or businesses from coming here or would
' 19 you only attract like-industries? Not
r07:44PM 20 necessarily additional off-track betting, but
21 other industries that may be compatible with this
' 22 type of business .
23 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : I think -- you want
24 to answer this one?
r
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1 MS . DUBAJIC : I ' d like to address that .
2 I am Lynn Dubajic and I am the executive director
3 of the Yorkville Economic Development
4 Corporation .
07:45PM 5 I can tell you that one of the
6 things that I was hearing you say is about the
7 development of the community, and the surrounding
8 area around this particular property has been
9 identified, so it ' s not in an area that there
07:45PM 10 might be expansive farm areas that you know, we
P Y
11 don ' t know what will happen .
12 While there might not be a physical
13 building on a certain location you certainly know
Y Y
14 what ' s going to happen on the surrounding parcels ,
07:45PM 15 so we already know that we ' ve got the major
16 shopping center across the street Kendall
17 Marketplace .
18 Now, I ' d like to speak to them
19 particularly ecause I think that ' s what you ' re
Y y
07:45PM 20 really focusing on, just the B-3 in general , okay?
21 Actually the businesses really are very, very
22 welcoming to the idea of this because this use
23 will bring people not only from Yorkville and from
24 Kendall County, but perhaps from other areas , into
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' 1 Yorkville and those individuals have a high
' 2 possibility of spending other dollars in
3 Yorkville, so actually it will help us attract
' 4 further -- let ' s use an example of restaurants ,
' 07:46PM 5 for the outlots over at Kendall Marketplace .
6 I already have had calls with the
' 7 information that this is a possibility of other
' 8 restaurants , national sit-down restaurants , that
9 are actually looking at us now because they know
' 07:46PM 10 that now there will be other people coming to our
' 11 community, and they know that now there is a
12 higher chance of their success because of this
' 13 business , so it ' s actually quite the opposite .
14 MR . LAPORTA: Why would that be? If
07:46PM 15 they ' re going to serve food, and I am assuming
' 16 there would be alcoholic beverages as well in a
' 17 betting facility right on-site, why would this
18 owner want to encourage somebody to bet there, but
t19 then go across the street to eat? I don ' t see the
' 07:47PM 20 connection .
21 MS . DUBAJCIC : It is not -- it is not
22 this owner trying to encourage that , I ' m just
' 23 saying there are other restaurants that understand
24 what an OTB brings to a community and that they
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' 1 now feel stronger about the fact that they will do
' 2 better because -- An example is if you would like
3 to frequent an OTB, maybe you eat there one day
' 4 and maybe the next time you come you want to go to
' 07:472M 5 another restaurant , but you ' re going to go to the
6 OTB, so it ' s actually a strengthening of numbers
' 7 of people coming to the community, so it really
' 8 does allow for us to have a greater advantage with
9 our other property that ' s got commercial zoning on
' 07:47PM 10 it for other restaurants , other businesses .
11 I know that the folks over at Dick ' s
12 Sporting Goods are really excited because now
' 13 people will be coming in, that is their same
' 14 market , people will come and spend more money at
07:48PM 15 the Dick ' s Sporting Goods , so actually it has
' 16 actually worked the opposite way .
' 17 MR . LAPORTA : I would love to see the
18 statistics that show the fact that that actually
' 19 occurs .
07:48PM 20 MS . DUBAJCIC : Well, I ' m not showing
21 statistics , I ' m just telling you about what I have
22 experienced since the information has been out
' 23 there, the calls that I am receiving .
24 MR. LAPORTA: Again, I ' d love to see the
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' 1 numbers .
2 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Krysti has something
3 for that .
' 4 MR . LAPORTA: Another question .
07:48PM 5 MS . NOBLE : Let me just clarify
6 something . I said Orland . I ' m sorry, I meant
7 Crestwood . Crestwood . And also Waukegan, they
' 8 had their first -- one to open their first OTB
9 that opened in 1988 and Peru in 1992 , I don ' t
07:48PM 10 think they were fairly established then, and
11 Rockford in 187 , so there have been communities --
12 and these locations in most of these communities ,
' 13 they are still open .
' 14 MR . LAPORTA : My point I was trying to
07:48PM 15 make is that my concern if you approve this , there
16 is a lot of other issues I am concerned with but
' 17 my concern is that you would attract -- you would
18 possibly deter other businesses from coming to
' 19 this community that may more appropriate be a ro riate for
07:49PM 20 the residents that live here, and we ' ll get
21 businesses that would not be as appropriate , and
' 22 I ' m thinking in terms of -- you know, you have a
Y
23 medical complex right down the road with
24 Rush-Copley and they are expanding, and I don ' t
Depo•Court Reporting Service (630) 983-0030
37
' 1 know what their long-range plans are, but, you
' 2 know, I don ' t know if this would have a negative
3 impact on them as far as altering their plans
4 being down the street from an off-track betting
07:49PM 5 facility, and again, I don ' t know where they ' re
6 headed with that -- with their business , but I
1 7 just don ' t see the connection, and because we ' re
' 8 growing and you have vacant stores in this
9 community, and most of the communities that you
07:49PM 10 mentioned were fully established when they
11 accepted off-track betting facilities , so the
12 existing business was already there, they didn ' t
13 really deter anyone from leaving, but they already
' 14 had other businesses in their community, where in
07:50PM 15 Yorkville . You are still growing and attracting
16 new business , and my question is will this
17 facility deter those other businesses from coming
18 in .
19 MS . NOBLE : The research that I have and
07:50PM 20 from the actual conversations I had with locations
21 that have businesses , this use brings about
22 special events that happen two or three times a
' 23 year that bring in hundreds of thousands of
24 people , and a lot of their revenue is made during
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' 1 those special events , the Breeders ' Cup, Triple
2 Crown, things of that nature, so they bring in
3 money outside of the community that wouldn ' t have
' 4 been there if another user was there .
' 07:50PM 5 Again, the text amendment limits
6 these to it as a secondary use, so there would
7 always have to be a primary use of a restaurant to
8 support this type of use , so they can never just
9 come in and be a primary use in the community .
U:50PM 10 MR . LAPORTA: I --
11 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Dan, do you want to
12 address this?
13 MR . KRAMER: Sure . I think in one sense
14 I can -- you know, I ' m not going to convince
07:51PM 15 Mr . LaPorta, he doesn ' t like the use , and there is
' 16 some people that genuinely don ' t , and that ' s okay .
17 Again, it ' s not a network TV that you ' re forced to
18 flip and watch . If you don ' t want to go there,
' 19 you certainly don ' t .
07:51PM 20 But in terms of how it will affect
21 the local business , the gentleman who built this
' 22 particular center, Moe Kapadia and his wife, Rose,
23 they have spent a lot of money over the years in
24 town, they did Pride Pantry on 47 , took an old
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39
1 just dilapidated building and built a nice
r2 business there, they built this center and then
3 they started the deli on the easterly wing, the
4 bottom of the L, and they sold that to another
07:51PM 5 user as far as the business , but they still own
6 that entire building, and they believe it ' s not
7 going to be a detriment to their six or seven
8 other rental spaces .
9 And again, we ' ve got the First
07:52PM 10 National Bank of Ottawa bought the location they
y
11 did for Moe and Rose right on the southwest
12 corner, and again, they have not registered any
' 13 objection with us at all .
14 So again, I can ' t say it ' s going to
07:52PM 15 please everybody, but yeah, we ' ve looked at the
r16 local business community, and again, although Jeff
g g
17 isn ' t involved with that one on the west side of
18 Aurora and Randall , it is more this type location
' 19 where you ' ve got a corner that ' s zoned -- actually
r07:52PM 20 it ' s heavier than this , it ' s zoned B-3 , it ' s got
21 some restaurant businesses, but the halo around it
22 is totally undeveloped and it ' s zoned residential
r23 so really it ' s a more developing area than this
24 one is .
r
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1 Here , like Lynn pointed out , we ' re
' 2 closed in . The uses are going to be more intense
3 in terms of zoning than this will be in terms of
4 impact .
' 07:52PM 5 The other thing I don ' t believe Jeff
6 mentioned, but when they have these special events
7 like Krysti talked about , we ' re certainly not
8 standing up and telling you that the parking lot
9 might work for a Derby day or a Breeders ' Cup like
07:53PM 10 we just had Saturday, but what they ' ve had in
11 other communities is they have had a working
12 relationship with Menards where they ' ve had
13 overflow parking with trolleys .
14 They fully intend to contact Menards
07:53PM 15 and Yorkville Market , which is right across the
' 16 street , so there is some cross-use there .
' 17 I think the type of business Lynn is
18 talking about is not only the food industry, but
t19 you get carry-overs with gas stations , just normal
07:53PM 20 things that as we are all driving through we tend
21 to stop at .
22 MR . LAPORTA: I appreciate the
23 explanation . I don ' t know if it would be
24 appropriate for me to state my personal feelings
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1 towards this at this point .
2 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : You are welcome to
3 do that . We do have another gentleman who wishes
4 to speak, too, so if you do that, that would be
07:53PM 5 fine .
6 MR . LAPORTA: I am against this facility
7 being sited in the City.
8 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Okay . Thank you
9 very much . Lynn, did you have anything else?
07:53PM 10 MS . DUBAJCIC : I just wanted to speak to
11 Rush-Copley because you spoke to that . So at this
12 time we are gearing up for the free-standing
13 emergency room and actually then doing the
14 stormwater to get prepared for that, and they will
07:54PM 15 be breaking ground on that free-standing ER come
16 spring, and it ' s always fully been the intention
' 17 as our -- as their market area grows , because that
18 again is under the jurisdiction of the State of
19 Illinois , the Illinois Facility Planning Board
07:54PM 20 that decides that, and as our community grows , as
21 Kendall County grows , for Yorkville to have a
22 hospital .
23 So the next step is the
24 free-standing ER, which we have been approved for
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42
1 and which they are going to break g round on, and
2 then hopefully someday as the community ' s
3 population grows , to actually have a bed tower, so
4 we would actually have a hospital bed site .
07:54PM 5 They are very aware of what ' s
6 happening and what we ' re discussing today and it
7 has absolutely nothing -- no implications
8 whatsoever on their plans or limiting it or
9 changing it or timing, whatsoever .
07:55PM 10 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Okay . Fred, it is
11 now your turn . Thank you very much .
12 MR . DuSELL : Fred DuSell . I am a
13 resident of Yorkville .
14 Just over a week ago I was asked by
07:55PM 15 an alderman and then subsequently another alderman
16 my opinion on this process . I served prior, Anne
17 you know that I was on the Citizen ' s Advisory
18 Committee for the Planning Commission for the
19 future plans .
07:55PM 20 I had no opinion at the time, but I
21 told the one alderman that asked me what my
22 opinion was I would check with -- I lived in North
23 Aurora for 30 years prior to moving to Yorkville
24 and I am fortunate to have friendship with the
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' 1 mayor of Yorkville -- or Plano -- or North Aurora
' 2 Dale Berman .
3 I called Dale and he gave me some
' 4 very succinct information on the Turf Room up
' 07:55PM 5 there, and he was also mayor back when the OTB
6 opened up by the old Hilton at the Tollway, and he
' 7 gave it a ringing endorsement .
' 8 There was questions from our
9 alderman here about the clientele ; Dale mentioned
' 07:56PM 10 to me that they have nothing but the most upscale
' 11 clientele at their facilities up there .
12 There is little to no crime , so
13 there would be very little police service at an
' 14 OTB facility, if it goes according to what North
07:56PM 15 Aurora does up there, if we do the proper
' 16 background checks like they P do u there .
' 17 It ' s unique income to Yorkville,
18 which is not what we ' ve been seeing around here .
' 19 We always see competing income . We bring in
07:56PM 20 stores that compete with other stores . OTB would
21 be a unique income source for us , and he said it
' 22 works well for them u there as far as bringing in
P g g
' 23 revenue for them.
24 Now, I think the Foundry also offers
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' 1 comedy and different entertainment venues up
2 there . Dale mentioned to me that the gambling
3 part of that , the racetrack part , is almost an
4 aside to the restaurant and entertainment venues
' 07:57PM 5 up there, and I would hope that Mr . Koulis would
6 gradually work into that with his business plan .
1 7 So anyway, I totally endorse that
' 8 from Dale ' s recommendation up there in North
9 Aurora . He totally gives it a ringing endorsement
07:57PM 10 up there and I support it , too . Enough said .
11 MR . KRAS : If I can perhaps just make a
12 couple more comments , and I ' ll keep it very brief
' 13 just from what I ' m listenin g to here .
' 14 The one in North Aurora, which was
07:57PM 15 under our management just shy of a year ago, is a
16 first class facility . It ' s a beautiful venue ,
' 17 very upscale, the restaurant itself, but that ' s
18 what we are looking to do here .
' 19 We want to make a first class
' 07:58PM 20 investment to complement what Steve ' s already
' 21 accomplished here . This is not going to be a
22 shady environment whatsoever; this is going to be
' 23 a first class environment .
' 24 The other thing I want to say for
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' 1 purposes of existing businesses , our Joliet
2 facility, which is located at 2450 Jefferson
3 Street , about 25 miles , 20 miles southeast of
4 here, that original venue, which opened I think
' 07:58PM 5 back in 1990 , is in Jefferson Square Mall . We
6 were the single largest tenant at the mall .
7 Menards , who had a presence on that
' 8 property, wanted to develop a Super Center and we
9 were kind of in the way because we were the only
07:58PM 10 remaining tenant . They asked us to move because
11 they wanted to develop a Super Center in
12 conjunction with a Super Wal-Mart as well .
13 They wanted us to move because they
' 14 wanted to move in a new venue that they were
07:59PM 15 creating on their property because of the traffic
16 that we drew, so they built us a 15 , 000 square
' 17 foot venue , which we are currently leasing from
18 Menards , and if you go into that center, you ' ve
19 got a super Wal-Mart, you ' ve got a Super Menards ,
07:59PM 20 and you ' ve got Joliet OTB right in the center .
21 It ' s a first class venue . So I
' 22 encourage you to take a look at those venues to
' 23 see what we have accomplished .
24 MS . LAMBKE : I have been to the one --
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1 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Your name again .
2 MS . LAMBKE : Susan Lambke . I have been
3 there many, many times and I ' ve gone with my
4 girlfriends for cocktails . You do not -- I do not
07:592M 5 hear the betting next door, and it ' s open . I
6 mean, there is a wall , you can walk in, there is
7 nothing . It ' s not a solid wall . And you don ' t
8 know anybody is in the room.
9 MR . KRAS : Which venue is this ?
07:59PM 10 MS . LAMBKE : The Turf Room. You can be
' 11 in the dining room and you don ' t hear the
12 off-track betting at all . It is very, very nice .
13 It would bring money to the city .
14 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Thank you .
08:OOPM 15 MS . DUBAJIC : I have two other things I
' 16 wanted to mention . When this site was operating
' 17 as the Big Easy and then Bourbon Street , the
18 amount of jobs that were coming out of that were
19 probably about four or five jobs , and with this
' 08:OOPM 20 type of operation, we ' re going to see close to 30
21 jobs being created, so I just wanted to speak to
1 22 that because we are also mindful about our
' 23 neighbors and our friends and our family members
24 that are out there looking for employment, and
' Depo•Court Reporting Service (630) 983-0030
47
' 1 this would really create an opportunity for new
' 2 jobs in our town, number one .
3 And, number two, I also wanted to
4 mention that our neighboring communities have
08:OOPM 5 called me and mentioned how much they are coveting
6 the fact that we ' re doing what we ' re doing tonight
7 because they would love for their town to be
8 selected .
9 So I feel very fortunate that we ' re
08:01PM 10 able to have this conversation because along with
' 11 the job creation, the synergy of this business and
12 actually the income strength that it will bring to
' 13 the City of the Yorkville, they are all very, very
' 14 positive .
08:01PM 15 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : George?
' 16 ALDERMAN GILSON : First of all , I ' d like
17 to speak as a resident , number one .
18 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : State who you are .
19 ALDERMAN GILSON : George Gilson, 498
08:01PM 20 Sunflower Court in Yorkville .
21 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Thank you .
' 22 ALDERMAN GILSON : I ' d like to speak as a
' 23 resident , number one . I have a few questions . If
24 either the city or the board up there feels I
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1 should be excluded from asking these questions ,
2 please let me know now .
3 The questions I have are several,
4 and there are a couple of things I ' d like to
' 08:01PM 5 address that were mentioned and ask for some
6 specifics , but the first one is would you agree
7 that off-track betting facilities are gambling
8 facilities and gambling facilities breed
9 detrimental habits , addictions and other community
08:01PM 10 and societal issues?
11 MR . KRAMER: First , I think it ' s
12 certainly gambling just like the lottery or bingo
13 at church or anything, George . No question there .
' 14 The second one is I think a totally
08:02PM 15 inappropriate question and I would tell him not to
16 answer that .
' 17 ALDERMAN GILSON : You ' re saying you
18 don ' t want to answer that question?
19 MR . KRAMER: No, because then you ' re
08:02PM 20 just saying if you have a beer, that means you are
21 an alcoholic . There is no -- that ' s not A and B .
' 22 It ' s not a logical statement .
23 ALDERMAN GILSON : No, I ' m asking if you
24 would agree that gambling facilities do have the
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1 tendency to breed those sort of addictions and 49
' 2 detrimental habits .
3 MR . KRAMER: No more than being born
4 dooms you to a life of crime or theft . No, those
08:02PM 5 just aren ' t -- one doesn ' t flow logically from the
6 other .
7 ALDERMAN GILSON : Okay .
Y
8 MR . KRAMER: I ' m not trying to be a
9 smart aleck .
08:02PM 10 ALDERMAN GILSON : That ' s okay . I have a
11 couple other questions . I was under the
12 impression that facilities that apply or petition
13 to Yorkville have to be able to accommodate their
14 customer base with parking .
08:02PM 15 MR. KRAMER: Sure .
' 16 ALDERMAN GILSON : And it ' s my
' 17 understanding that this parking facility
18 potentially will not accommodate the customer base
' 19 and that the lan above and beyond P y d the parking
08:03PM 20 that ' s there is to rent a parking facility from a
21 Menards or a place similar to Menards and trolley
22 back people back and forth from Menards to hi
t s
' 23 facility .
24 What type of precedent does that set
r
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1 for future petitioners when they don ' t have enough
2 parking to accommodate their customer base and
3 they can say to a city such as Yorkville, hey,
4 well , we don ' t have enough to accommodate but
g ,
08:03PM 5 we ' ll rent space in another area and trolley
6 people back and forth?
7 How many times can we hear that in
8 the future and get around the fact that we don ' t
9 have enough parking to accommodate this facility
08:03PM 10 or any facility may petition to Yorkville?
Y p
' 11 MR . KRAMER: Well , that --
12 MR. KRAS : What you are referring to,
13 however, is limited to no more than four days per
t14 year, and possibly no more than two days per year .
' 08:03PM 15 If you had a Triple Crown
16 participant where they are going to go the whole
17 length, you may have three events , but otherwise
18 it would be the Kentucky Derby, which is the first
19 Saturday in Ma Y. and then the Breeders ' Cup, which
08:04PM 20 just happened last week, so two or three days .
21 MR. JONES : Not only that , as a PUD or
22 whatever, it would have to come -- it ' s a special
' 23 use or PUD, it would have to come -- each one,
24 each incident , would have to come before us as a
r
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1 separate incident or as a separate case .
2 We don ' t sit there and -- Yeah, we
3 can say yeah, there was a precedent set here, but
4 you ' re -- Y ou ' re -- if Y ou ' re coming before us ,
08:04PM 5 that ' s a whole separate case and we would take it
6 on a case-by-case basis .
7 ALDERMAN GILSON : I g uess I don ' t
8 understand, maybe you can clarify . If the
9 petitioner admits that there may not be enough
08:04PM 10 parkin g here , whether it be one or four or all
11 year long --
12 MR . KRAMER: No, we do . We ' re not
13 quarrelin g with that .
14 MS . NOBLE : But I am. For the use, its
08:04PM 15 daily operations , the site has 97 spaces plus four
16 handicapped accessible spaces . Per our ordinances
PP P
17 and our regulations , we -- and there is six
18 existing tenants in this L-shaped unit, there is
19 enough on-site parking to accommodate their daily
08:05PM 20 operations of the sports bar .
21 However, when the special events
22 come, that ' s when they are going to have to
23 provide a plan per my recommendations , they ' re
24 going have to provide a plan to the City no more
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52
1 than 15 business days before the event laying out
2 not only the traffic pattern, the parking
3 locations , they ' re going to have to execute an
4 agreement with whatever user that has the adequate
08:05PM 5 overflow parking available prior to us issuing a
6 permit to them, and they have to assure us that
7 any traffic congestion will be mitigated or we
8 could pull their special use permit . So those
9 were considerations that Staff put on top of their
08:05PM 10 special use requirement .
11 So for their daily operations , they
12 are more than adequate for their use . If they
13 weren ' t , they would have to seek a variation, and
' 14 we don ' t have an authorized variation to allow a
08:06PM 15 use to happen or to open without enough parking .
16 MR . JONES : Well , what he ' s saying is
17 what if another business comes and says they have
18 two or three events per year --
19 MS . NOBLE : Right .
08:06PM 20 MR . JONES : -- that will cause overflow,
21 he ' s saying why won ' t they come to us and ask for
22 the same thing .
23 MS . NOBLE : And they can .
24 MR . BAKER: And they can .
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' 1 MR . JONES : And they can .
' 2 MS . NOBLE : They can, they can .
3 MR. BAKER : What ' s the big deal?
4 MR . JONES : They can . But --
' 08:06PM 5 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : You guys , one at a
6 time , she is trying to type this .
' 7 MR . JONES : But they have to come on a
' 8 case-by-case basis and you have to consider each
9 on their own merits .
' 08:06PM 10 ALDERMAN GILSON : That ' s a concern of
' 11 mine .
12 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : George , do you have
13 any more questions ?
' 14 ALDERMAN GILSON : I do .
15 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Okay .
' 16 ALDERMAN GILSON : If you don ' t mind,
' 17 give me a few more minutes .
18 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : No, I ' m just -- I ' m
' 19 trying to help the stenographer out as well --
' 20 ALDERMAN GILSON : Oh, I understand.
21 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : -- because when
' 22 everybody talks at once, it ' s hard for her to get
23 this down .
24 ALDERMAN GILSON : The 97 spaces in that
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' 1 that facility, you are assuming that they use up
2 all the parking for whole retail lot , correct?
3 MS . NOBLE : No . The 97 , the total of
4 that area, does not include the banking area,
' 08:06PM 5 which they do have a cross-parking agreement with,
6 it does not include the parking that ' s to the
7 adjacent retail , I think it ' s Cannonball
' 8 Business --
9 MR . KOULIS : Yes .
08:07PM 10 MS . NOBLE : -- Partners , that does not
' 11 account for that . The 97 spaces are just the
12 spaces that are along the frontage and the rear of
13 the L-shaped business .
' 14 ALDERMAN GILSON : I guess a follow-up
08:07PM 15 question to that is there are other businesses
1 16 that use that parking as well?
' 17 MS . NOBLE : Yes .
18 ALDERMAN GILSON : How many are there?
19 MS . NOBLE : And we considered all six
' 08:07PM 20 tenants that are in that and we considered the
21 time of operation for this use in regards to the
22 other uses in that area .
' 23 ALDERMAN GILSON : So there ' s been some
24 discussion with the other tenants with the
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55
1 possibility or understanding that this business
2 could possibly monopolize all of that parking and
3 they are okay with that?
1 4 MS . NOBLE : Staff did not talk
to the
' 08:07PM 5 businesses . What we did was we looked at our
6 ordinance and saw what the required parking would
7 be for an use in that area and we looked ooked at
' 8 what ' s required for the users that are -- the
9 tenants that are in there now and with this use
' 08:08PM 10 generating the parking that they have from
their
' 11 previous experiences , and we came to the
12 determination based off of our off-street parking
' 13 and loading requirements that this does me
g r q et the
' 14 ordinance standards for parking for their daily
08:08PM 15 operation .
16 ALDERMAN GILSON : Krysti , I respect what
'. 17 you ' re saying to me and I guess I ' ll ask the
' 18 question in more of an answerable-type question .
19 If this facility dominates all the
' 08:08PM 20 parking that the other businesses now -- and there
' 21 will be more to come in that retail center --
22 have , as a City and as someone who is looking at a
' 23 long-term plan for that as an upscale retail
' 24 center, as well as across the street , but that
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1 facility in particular, we ' re okay with that --
' 2 with that -- that business dominating all of those
3 spaces , potentially even more?
4 MS . NOBLE : Well, that was a concern of
08:08PM 5 mine . That ' s why I listed it as a standard for my
6 conditions . I contacted Buffalo Grove . In their
1 7 area where their facility is located, there is
8 shared parking . Not only is there an apartment
9 complex to the rear, there is the existing Adam' s
08:09PM 10 Bar & Grill , there are other tenant uses a little
' 11 bit further over, and they have never had an
12 experience where they would overflow on their
13 daily operations , and they also required a parking
14 plan and a transportation or traffic flow study or
08:09PM 15 requirement to be submitted prior to these events .
16 They have never had a situation where this use
' 17 overtook all of the spaces .
18 That was a big consideration of
19 mine . I ' m going to monitor the situation, but
' 08:09PM 20 right now there are seven tenant spaces , there are
21 six that are already in capacity.
22 So we looked at the parking that ' s
' 23 been generated in that area, spaces being open, I
24 visited the site several times to see if there was
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' 1 ever a strain on the parking .
' 2 I was very concerned about the Tacos
3 Tacos facility because they seem to be very
4 popular, especially around lunch time . That ' s
' 08:102M 5 always a concern when you have those fast
6 casual-type restaurant uses .
' 7 I have never seen or observed in the
8 times that I visited over the last week or so any
9 of the parking from that use overflow or consume
08:10PM 10 even 50 percent of the spaces that are available .
' 11 ALDERMAN GILSON : Okay .
12 MR . KRAMER: George, may -- And we may
' 13 answer, too . We, of course, talked to the
' 14 landlord because he ' s the owner of it , and he is
08:lOPM 15 quite content with it . And, Steve has , again,
' 16 operated Ultimate, so you have some comments on
17 that , too, as far as the other tenants .
18 MR. KOULIS : Yes . As far as the other
19 tenants , I believe they welcome it because I
' 08:lOPM 20 don ' t know if you ' ve seen the area or not ,
21 apparently the tenants don ' t have a big customer
22 base to draw from.
23 To bring in 45 people a day, how
24 many stop and have Tacos Tacos or have their nails
' Depo•Court Reporting Service ( 630) 983-0030
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1 done or stop at Dollar General? I talked to Moe
2 the owner . He can ' t wait to bring more people in .
3 Most of the businesses close at
4 eight o ' clock at night , so eight o ' clock on there
g ,
08:11PM 5 is no other traffic in the mall other than the
6 Ultimate Sports Bar .
7 On a Sunday the bank is closed . The
8 bank also closes at five o ' clock . So there is
9 plenty of opportunity for parking . Estimating 45
' 08:11PM 10 people , maybe a hundred people throughout the
11 entire day on Saturday and Sunday .
12 MR . KRAS : The concentration of people
' 13 would be between the hours of 1 : 30 and 4 : 30 and
14 then after 7 : 30 at night .
08:112M 15 ALDERMAN GILSON : And, Steve , I
16 understand -- and Dan, ou mentioned it as well ,
,
17 to, you spoke to the landlord?
18 MR. KRAMER: Sure .
' 19 ALDERMAN GILSON : I g uess he wouldn ' t
08:11PM 20 be the one that would be as concerned as the
21 business owners ?
22 MR. KRAMER: Well no he is very
23 concerned about his business owners because he ' s
24 got one tenant occupying the north space and now
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59
1 he ends up with four spaces on the south . Believe
' 2 me, he ' s very concerned . That ' s why he asked .
3 ALDERMAN GILSON : I just -- I ' d like to
' 4 see the businesses there come out with an
08:11PM 5 endorsement saying they are okay with the
6 potential for events like that dominating that
7 area .
8 MR . KRAMER: Sure . Sure . We ' re happy
9 to do that . Because the landlord did talk to the
' 08:12PM 10 tenants .
11 ALDERMAN GILSON : Yeah, I -- just a
12 concern .
' 13 MR . KRAMER: No that ' s a
' good question .
' 14 ALDERMAN GILSON : I also had the same
08:12PM 15 concerns Mr . LaPorta had about siting a facility
16 like this or permitting a facility like this and
' 17 what kind of other facilities it will bring, you
18 know, by putting it next to a hospital , you know .
' 19 Some of the same concerns Jim had mentioned, I
08:12PM 20 express those same concerns .
21 Dan, you mentioned the Ultimate
22 Sports Bar is a family-oriented facility . Do you
23 consider a bar to be a family-oriented facility?
24 MR . KRAMER: Yeah, I do, some bars . If
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' 1 you look at Bristol Tap, people have gone up there
' 2 with their families for years . If you look at
3 Steve ' s , they go there for years , you know, the
' 4 people , the prior owners , at earlier times at
08:12PM 5 night .
6 They ' re different than a tavern . I
7 would consider that purely or a majority alcohol
8 use as opposed to a bar like Ultimate Sports Bar .
9 Frankly, going back two owners ago
08:13PM 10 where it was the Big Easy, I wouldn ' t have stood
11 here and told you I think that ' s a family
12 atmosphere . This is way different than that .
13 Totally different .
14 MR . KOULIS : Just to mention that , we ' ve
08:13PM 15 gone through over 325 children ' s menus in the last
16 month . We hosted the 7th and 8th grade Yorkville
17 football banquet , we hosted the Yorkville 6th
18 graders ' football banquet . Today there is
19 probably 25 for a 15-year old ' s birthday .
20 So we do have a section of the
21 restaurant -- if you have been in, there is one
' 22 section that ' s strictly for dining for families .
23 They know that when they walk in, they separate
24 themselves . A lot of them are in the audience
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1 today. There is the bar for the regulars and then
2 the groups . We have teachers today from the
3 Yorkville Elementary School there after school
4 because there is no school tomorrow .
08:13PM 5 ALDERMAN GILSON : Steve , I ' m not
6 questioning your facility brings in families
7 during the day and supports children and, heck,
8 I ' ve been in there . It ' s a very nice facility .
9 What I ' m saying is towards the
08:14PM 10 evening when this facility will be operating, it ' s
11 not really family-oriented at that time , it ' s --
12 you ' re not going to see any children and families
' 13 in there .
' 14 MR . KOULIS : Well , most families are in
08:14PM 15 earlier .
16 ALDERMAN GILSON : Well , and you ' re
17 right . I guess --
18 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : George, how many
19 more questions do you have?
08:14PM 20 ALDERMAN GILSON : I have one more
21 question .
r 22 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Okay .
Y
23 ALDERMAN GILSON : Lynn, you gave the
24 analogy or you gave specifics , you said that
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62
1 businesses or restaurants have contacted you and
2 expressed interest in this facility in Yorkville
3 as a precursor to petitioning to locate in
4 Yorkville .
08:14PM 5 Can you tell me who called you and
6 who --
7 MS . DUBAJIC : I am not able to share
8 with you who those businesses may be , but I can
9 tell you that since there has been discussion
08:14PM 10 about this and it ' s been publicly made that I have
11 gotten phone calls from representatives of
12 national users who are interested in learning more
13 about opportunities because they understand that
14 this is a use that will bring in more people to
08:15PM 15 our town .
16 ALDERMAN GILSON : I was just curious to
17 know and --
18 MS . DUBAJIC : And I ' m just not
19 privileged to give out that information .
08:15PM 20 ALDERMAN GILSON : -- to see what other
21 businesses this would attract, and if you have
22 talked to specific businesses , I ' d love to know
23 who they were .
24 MS . DUBAJCIC : Well , I can ' t provide you
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1 with that information . I would just say to you
' 2 that they are national tenants that would be
3 located in shopping centers such as what we have
' 4 at Kendall Marketplace .
08:15PM 5 ALDERMAN GILSON : Okay . Thank you .
6 MR . JONES : George, I ' ve got a question .
' 7 As an alderman, are you going to be able to
' 8 separate what your constituents want versus if
9 they want that facility versus your personal
' 08:15PM 10 opinion?
' 11 ALDERMAN GILSON : You betcha .
12 MR . JONES : Thank you .
' 13 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : You have a question
' 14 back there?
08:15PM 15 MR . COLOSIMO : I wasn ' t sworn in, so I
' 16 swear and affirm that the testimony I am about to
' 17 give will be the truth, the whole truth, and
18 nothing but the truth, so help me God.
19 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Thank you .
' 08:15PM 20 MR . CROUCH : Well done .
21 MR. COLOSIMO : My name is Carlo
22 Colosimo, I live at 216 Elizabeth Street . One of
' 23 the things we really haven ' t touched upon, the
24 City right now, the City budget , is in deficit, we
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1 are bleeding red. People say this is going to
' 2 bring revenue to the City .
3 Do we have any estimates as to what
4 we can expect as a municipality to receive from
' 08:16PM 5 the off-track betting if it is received into the
6 City coffers?
' 7 MR . KRAMER: Jeff can answer that
' 8 probably.
9 MR. KRAS : We believe when it matures --
' 08:16PM 10 and I would say there is going to be a maturity
' 11 period of perhaps a year to a year and a half --
12 we are looking for at a minimum this venue to
' 13 contribute $200 , 000 a year between the
' 14 municipality and county, plus the jobs .
08:16PM 15 MR . COLOSIMO : And as a follow-up to
' 16 that , how does that calculate? Is it a
17 percentage? Is it a per bet? Is it --
18 MR . KRAS : Under the state statute, an
' 19 off-track betting venue imposes a two-percent
08:16PM 20 surcharge against winning wagers . There is a
21 two-percent surcharge against the total wagering,
' 22 and that is subsidized by a two-and-a-half percent
23 surcharge by the winning wagers paid to the
24 municipality and to the county . It ' s inherent in
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65
1 all those licenses throughout the state .
2 MS . NOBLE : And I can expand on that .
3 It ' s a monthly tax in a sense . One percent goes
4 to the city, one percent goes to the county, and
' 08:17PM 5 one-and-a-half percent goes to the state , and the
6 annual wagers of these type of OTB facilities last
7 year actually were over 7 . 9 million was generated
8 for city and county governments state-wide .
9 UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER : Million?
08:17PM 10 MS . NOBLE : Million . These are for
11 OTBs . These are for OTBs , right . And remember,
12 there is only less than 30 .
' 13 MR. KRAS : That doesn ' t include the
' 14 racetracks , though .
08:182M 15 MS . NOBLE : Right .
' 16 MR . KRAS : That doesn ' t include the
17 racetracks .
18 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : George?
19 ALDERMAN GILSON : Can you just elaborate
08:18PM 20 when you said it matures , how long a time frame
21 you are talking?
22 MR . KRAS : I believe it ' s going to take
' 23 a year to a year and a half to recognize your
24 potential as to what it is . Year-to-year and a
' Depo•Court Reporting Service (630) 983-0030
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' 1 half .
2 ALDERMAN GILSON : Thank you .
3 MR . KRAMER : And I don ' t know if it was
' 4 identified, we ' ve kind of touched on this a bunch
08:18PM 5 of times , which track it would be affiliated with,
6 and it is Hawthorne --
7 MS . NOBLE : Hawthorne .
8 MR . KRAMER : -- just for purposes of the
9 record, so we do meet that mileage requirement .
08:18PM 10 They are the state applicant .
11 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : I think we ' ve heard
12 that a couple times .
' 13 MR . KRAMER : Just wanted to make sure .
14 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Steve .
08:18PM 15 MR . KOULIS : I just wanted to mention, I
' 16 think it was Joe --
1 17 MR . KRAMER: The gentleman in the black
18 shirt?
1 19 MR . KRAS : Yes .
' 08:18PM 20 MR . KOULIS : Yes .
21 MR . KRAMER: Jim LaPorta .
22 MR . KOULIS : I ' ve been involved with
23 bars for 30 years and I ' ve had the opportunity to
24 not only develop the Foundry, but be there for
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r
67
1 five years , and then I was also involved with
2 Stoney Point Grill , which also has the Mokena OTB,
3 so it ' s not like we ' re going to go to Yorkville
4 with an unexperienced background .
08:19PM 5 I ' ve dealt with this before , I
6 understand the clientele , my staff has been with
I7 me for over ten years . George has also dealt with
1 8 the OTB clientele, so it ' s not like we are being
9 put into a blind spot here . We know the
08:19PM 10 clientele, we know what their niche is , we know
' 11 what they like . We know how to treat them.
12 MS . NOBLE : I just wanted to say I
' 13 shared your sentiment about the family atmosphere
14 of the location, and what we were able to do was
08:19PM 15 to establish that the OTB would have doors in
16 between their use and the actual restaurant use,
17 and again, with their added security that they
18 already provide , and that they would provide us
' 19 with specific details and information on
08:19PM 20 preventative measures to mitigate any underage
21 drinking . That ' s just a requirement that the City
' 22 put above and beyond their special use .
' 23 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Okay . Are there any
24 other questions or comments?
Depo•Court Reporting Service (630) 983-0030
68
' 1 MR . GLEASON : I ' d like to make a
2 comment , I wasn ' t sworn in here . I am Tim
3 Gleason . I swear to tell the truth, the whole
4 truth, and nothing but the truth .
08:20PM 5 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : So help me God?
6 Okay, thank you . Who are you?
7 MR . GLEASON : I just wanted to make a
8 comment . Tim Gleason, 647 White Oak Way .
9 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Thank you .
08:20PM 10 MR . GLEASON : I am a horse better . I
11 don ' t frequent it daily. I think it ' s an
12 incredibly wonderful sport to watch, such as , you
1 13 know, the Zenyatta race we just had this past
' 14 Saturday, and it ' s a great sport to wager on as
08:20PM 15 well .
' 16 It ' s certainly not anything where
' 17 people -- like blackjack or something like that
18 where you can just sit down and kind of just
19 blind luck . This is something that ' s far more
08:20PM 20 tended towards people who have a skill , and so for
21 that , I think it ' s just a wonderful opportunity
22 that Yorkville has here to have an OTB .
23 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Anyone else?
24 (No response . )
Depo•Court Reporting Service (630) 983-0030
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69
' 1 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Okay . Krysti has
2 asked me to read the Staff recommendations into
3 the record, and I will read them to you .
4 Staff offers the following
08:21PM 5 recommendations for the Plan Commission to
6 consider when we viewing Petitioner ' s request :
7 Wagering at the off-track betting facility shall
8 be limited to only live horse races and not
9 include wagering on any other sporting activity,
08:21PM 10 professional or otherwise .
11 The Petitioner must obtain all
12 required City permits and licenses associated with
' 13 a tenant build-out and operation of the OTB
14 facility, including, but not limited, to
08:21PM 15 applicable building permits and liquor control
' 16 licenses .
r17 The Petitioner shall provide
18 specific details and information on preventive
' 19 measures to be taken to mitigate underage drinking
g g
08:22PM 20 within the betting parlor and bar area .
21 The Petitioner shall obtain a
22 license from the Illinois Racin g Board prior to
23 commencing any wagering activities at the
24 property, and must maintain good standing with the
1
Depo•Court Reporting Service (630) 983-0030
70
' 1 Illinois Racing Board .
2 The wagering component of the sports
3 bar shall be limited to no more than 45 percent of
4 the gross leasable floor space .
' 08:22PM 5 The Petitioner shall allow the
6 United City of Yorkville access to the camera
7 surveillance system for the off-track betting
' 8 facility upon request when related to crime
9 prevention, investigations or other public safety
08:22PM 10 matters pertaining to the property .
11 The Petitioner must execute a shared
12 parking agreement with a nearby property owner
' 13 with an existing parking lot area sufficient to
14 accommodate the overflow parking during special
08:22PM 15 events at the facility .
' 16 A copy of said executed agreement
17 shall be provided to and approved by the City
18 prior to issuance of an occupancy permit .
19 The Petitioner shall submit a
08:23PM 20 parking plan for every event required off-site
21 parking . The plan shall include details regarding
' 22 the use of trolley services or any other patron
' 23 valet services and proposed traffic flow on
24 U . S . 34 and Cannonball Trail . Said plan shall be
Depo•Court Reporting Service (630) 983-0030
71
1 submitted to the City for approval no less than 15
' 2 business days prior to the event day .
3 Any violation of the conditions of
4 the special use as determined by the United City
08:23PM 5 of Yorkville shall be remedied by the petitioner
6 to the satisfaction of the City or be subject to
7 revocation of the special use granted herein .
8 Are there any or questions or
9 comments?
' 08:23PM 10 (No response . )
11 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Okay . Entertain a
12 motion to close the public hearing --
13 MR . CROUCH : So moved .
' 14 MR . JONES : Second .
08:23PM 15 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : -- 10-14 . We have a
' 16 motion and second. All in favor say aye .
17 (A chorus of ayes . )
18 CHAIRMAN LUCIETTO : Not in favor, nay .
19 (No response . )
20 (Which were all the
21 proceedings had in the
22 public hearing portion
23 of the meeting . )
24 ---000---
' Depo•Court Reporting Service (630) 983-0030
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1 STATE OF ILLINOIS )
SS .
2 COUNTY OF LA SALLE )
3 I , Christine M. Vitosh, a Certified
' 4 Shorthand Reporter, do hereby certify that I
' 5 reported in shorthand the proceedings had at the
6 hearing of the above-entitled cause and that the
7 foregoing Report of Proceedings , Pages 1 through
8 73, inclusive , is a true, correct , and complete
9 transcript of my shorthand notes so taken at the
' 10 time and place aforesaid .
11 I further certify that I am neither
12 counsel for nor related to counsel for any of the
13 parties to this suit, nor am I in any way related
14 to any of the parties to this suit , nor am I in
15 any way interested in the outcome thereof .
16 I further certify that my
17 certificate annexed hereto applies to the original
18 transcript and copies thereof, signed and
' 19 certified under my hand only . I assume no
20 responsibility for the accuracy of any reproduced
21 copies not made under my control or direction .
22
' 23
24
' Depo•Court Reporting Service ( 630) 983-0030
73
' 1 In testimony whereof, I have
2 hereunto set my hand this 9th day of December,
3 A . D . 2010 .
4 O&O-tex- 'A 6&G—e'
' 5
6 Christine M . Vitosh, CSR
7 CSR No . 084-002883
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
' 17
18
19
20
21
22
' 23
24
Depo•Court Reporting Service (630) 983-0030
74
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' Depo•Court Reporting Service (630) 983-0030
75
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' Depo•Court Reporting Service (630) 983-0030
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clientele[5]- 37:14, 38:3,38:9, [1]-56:18 33:24,41:21 current[1]- 5:1,5:11
43:9,43:11,67:6, 39:16,41:20, considerations couple[61- 4:18 details[31-
' 67:8,67:10 48:9 [1]-52:9 28:21,30:9, customer 141- 67:19,69:18,
close[71-7:2, Community[1]- considered[21- 44:12,48:4, 49:14,49:18, 70:21
11:3, 18:3, 18:4, 2:13 54:19, 54:20 49:11,66:12 50:2, 57:21 deter[41-32:17,
46:20,58:3, community's[1] consists 11]- Course[4]- 36:18, 37:13,
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closed[31- Company[11- constituents[1] 25:19,25:24 determination
22:19,40:2,58:7 4:7 -63:8 course[2] 1
D-925710[11- [ [-terms
closes[1]-58:8 compatible[1]- consume[1]- 28:20,57:13 determined[1]-
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20:22 compete 3 - daily[7]-27:8, detriment 11]-
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68:11
46:4 competing[z]- 16:7,56:6,62:1 covered[11-9:2 56:13, 48:9,49:2
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code[1]-13:15 competition[2] 57:15 47:5 43:3,43:9,44:2 26:13,45:8,
' coffers[1]-64:6 -24:21,26:10 contract[11- create 11]-47:1 Dale's[1]-44:8 45:11,66:24
' Depo•Court Reporting Service ( 630) 983-0030
77
' developed[3]- 34:8, 36:23,37:4, elaborate[i] entrance[i] experienced[2] fails[1]-20:10
4:16,30:21, 53:23,68:18 65:19 22:18 14:18,35:22 fair[i)-31:21
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developing[2)- 25:3,25:10 21:19 -28:4,29:2,29:3, -29:9,55:11 Fairmount[2]-
32:11,39:23 downtown[i)- elementary[i)- 29:14,44:22, explain[2)- 25:3,25:10
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[3]-2:13,23:20, draw[2]-20:12, Elementary[i]- equipment p]- explanation[1)- 32:8
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development[2) drew[2)-20:11, eligible[i]- ER[2]-41:15, exposure[1]- 60:2,60:22,61:6,
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Dick's[2]- drinking[z]- Elizabeth[1]- especially[i]- express[i]- family i7)-
35:11,35:15 67:21,69:19 63:22 57:4 59:20 22:24,46:23,
different[5]- driver[1]-14:12 emergency[i]- establish[2]- expressed[1]- 59:22,59:23,
24:9,44:1,60:6, drivers[i]-14:6 41:13 30:20,67:15 62:2 60:11,61:11,
60:12,60:13 driving[1]- Emmon[11]- established[4]- exterior[1]- 67:13
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39:1 drunkenness[i] 6:2,7:10, 7:17, 36:10,37:10 extra[i]-10:20 [4]-22:24,59:22,
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direction[1]- 34:21, 35:20, employees[3]- estimates[1]- 37:3,39:5,43:22,
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director[i]- DUBAJIC[a]- employment[l) Estimating[1]- 68:19
33:2 33:1,46:15,62:7, -46:24 58:9 farm[21-4:8,
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district[4)- 4:17,6:5 example[3]- 41:19 24:10
15:10, 16:16, E endorse[1]- 27:14, 34:4,35:2 facility[51] feelings[1]-
15:21, 16:5,
16:18 44:7 excited[i]- 40:24
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16:13 ensure[3]- 52:3,70:11 19:11
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dollars[i]-34:2 39: 28:3 33:2 32:14, first[is]-4:5,
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dooms[1]-49:4 entertainment expanding[i]- 59:16, 59:22, First[1]-39:9
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4:18 59:23,61:6,61:8,
46:5 entire[z]-39:6, expansive[i]- 61:10,62:2,63:9, fits ti-5:18
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eight[2]-58:4
22:19,26:24, entirely[i]- expect[i]-64:4 69:7,69:14,70:8, 58:8,67:1
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67:15 24:8 experience[3)- flip[i]-38:18
17:23,25:8,
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' 4:13,9:10, 15:22, 47:24 1:13,72:6 56:12 17:13,70:4
50:8
' Depo•Court Reporting Service ( 630) 983-0030
78
flow[3]-49:5, frontage[1]- girlfriends[i]- 20:12,39:21 Hilton[2]- 69:22,70:1
56:14,70:23 54:12 46:4 hand[4]-3:4, 21:14,43:6 immediately[2]
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focusing[1]- fully[4]-30:21, 21:9,27:12, handed[i]- history[i]-14:3 impact[4]-
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follow[3]- future[3]- GLEASON[3]- -51:16 home[i]-25:8 impact-type[1]-
32:10,54:14, 42:19,50:1,50:8 68:1,68:7,68:10 hands[i]- Homer[2]-4:7, 4:24
64:15 Gleason[z]- 14:20 4:12 Implement[1]-
follow-up[3]- G 68:3,68:8 hands-on[1]- hope[3]- 14:22, 4:7
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64:15 68:5 hang[i]-9:15 hopefully[3]- -42:7
followin g[ ]- gambling[7]- Goods[z]- happy[3]-6:24, 28:17,29:19, imposes[i]-
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48:7, ,
food[a]-17:101 44:2, governments hard[i]-53:22 horse[s]-17:4, impression[i]-
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gas[1]-40:19
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General[3]-
foregoing[i]- 71:7 headed[i]- 41:22,42:4, 31:14
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fortunate[2]- generating[1]- Grill[2]-56:10, 46:11,50:7 hour[i]-1:15 27:23, 50:24,
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forward[1]- gentleman[3]- gross[z]- 15:11,66:11 58:13 include[s]-
'
16:20 38:21,41:3,
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geographics[1J 2223,25:13 37:23 69:14
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47:15,47:19,
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GILSON[34]-
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47:19,
22:13,22:18, 47:16, grows[a]- help[a]-34:3, indicated[z]-
60:9 47:22,48:17, 53:19,63:18, idea(21-26:9, 6:17,20:2
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54:14, 54:18, 13:3, 15:7, 16:13,
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41:24 54:23, 55:16, 72:17 16:17 32:21
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58:19,59:3, 1:5,72:1
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35:3,68:11 habits[2]-48:9, 8:7 8:8 8:10 1:16, 13:1, 15:23, information[9]-
61:20,61:23, 49:2 17:1, 17:4, 17:6,
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42:24 64:22,65:5, 34:12 25:2,25:20,27:1, 67:19,69:18
Gilson[i]- 65:23,66:1 27:2,27:8,29:18,
front[z]-5:9, highlighted[2]- inherent[i]
47:19 -
13:20 halo[3]-20:11, 4:2,6:19 2919,41:19, 64:24
' Depo•Court Reporting Service (630) 983-0030
79
initiated[1]- 24:15,39:16, 20:24,44:5 LAPORTA[1 1]- 42:8 56:22
24:16 40:5,64:7 KRAMER[37]- 30:6,31:21,32:7, limits[1]-38:5 looking[a]-
' Inn[1]-21:14 JEFF[1]-2:9 3:23,4:1,6:15, 34:14,35:17, LINDBLOM[141 12:20, 18:3,
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40:2 job[ii-47:11 48:19,49:3,49:8, largest[1]-45:6 liquor[1]-69:15 21:23,48:12
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41:16 46:19,46:21, 51:12,57:12, 27:1,31:2,50:20, listed[1]-56:5 23:22,35:17,
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25:24 2:7, 10:19, 11:5, 3:24, 10:5, 13:17, laying[1]-52:1 42:22 LUCIETTO 1731-
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intersection[21 71:14 24:14,44:11, leasable[1]- locate[11-62:3 10:3, 10:7, 10:9,
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6:1,8:5,8:16, LA[1]-72:2 license[z]- 49:5 63:19,65:18,
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' Depo-Court Reporting Service (630) 983-0030
80
Magee[11- 1:4 Mokena[5]- 18:13, 18:20, 64:14,64:24 58:14,60:5
14:12 meeting 141- 16:13,21:3, 19:5, 19:24,20:1, must[41-9:18, NOBLE[21]-
main[1]-26:16 1:12,5:23,31:4, 28:10,30:18, 20:4,24:14,30:6, 69:11,69:24, 6:18, 15:6,30:24,
maintain[2]- 71:23 67:2 31:21,32:7, 70:11 32:2,36:5,37:19,
17:13,69:24 MEMBER[i]- money[sl- 34:14,35:17, - 51:14,52:19,
major[1]-33:15 65:9 27:24,28:1, 35:24,36:4, N 52:23,53:2,54:3,
majority[1]- members[31- 35:14,38:3, 36:14,38:10, - -- 54:10,54:17,
60:7 7:5,31:5,46:23 38:23,46:13 38:13,40:22, 54:19,55:4,56:4,
Mall[1]-45:5 memo[1]- monitor[11- 41:6,44:11,46:9, nails[�]-57:24 65:2,65:10,
mall[21-45:6, 31:11 56:19 48:11,48:19, name[71-9:16, 65:15,66:7,
58:5 Menards[81- monopolize[11- 49:3,49:8,49:15, 10:7,24:14,30:4, 67:12
management[l] 30:6,46:1,63:21
40:12,40:14, 55:2 50:11,50:12, Noble[1]-2:13
-44:15 45:7,45:18, month[1]- 50:21,51:12, Naperville 121- normal[1]-
managers 11]- 45:19,49:21, 60:16 52:16,52:20, 26:6,28:10 40:19
28:12 49:22 month) 1 53:3,53:4,53:7, National[1]-
y[ ]- normally[21-
manages[1]- mention[41- 65:3 54:9,57:12, 39:10 27:1,27:3
27:24 46:16,47:4, months[i]- 58:12,58:18, national[41- North[11]-
manipulates 11] 58:22,59:8, 27:9,34:8,62:12,
60:14,66:15 5:24 21:11,21:14,
-27:19 mentioned[13]- most[s]-9:8, 59:13,59:24, 63:2 21:17,22:5,26:4,
manufacturing 14:1,21:2,28:10, 36:12,37:9, 60:14,61:14, nature[3]-5:13, 30:18,42:22,
[i1-16:13 30:13,37:10, 43:10,58:3, 63:6,63:12, 31:7,38:2 43:1,43:14,44:8,
map[31-4:3, 40:6,43:9,44:2, 61:14 63:20,63:21, nay pl-3:16, 44:14
8:12,20:11 47:5,48:5,58:16, motion[121- 64:7,64:9,64:15, 11:17, 11:18, north 11]-58:24
Market[1]- 59:19,59:21 3:8,7:2, 11:3, 64:18,65:13, 12:8, 18:12, north/south[1]-
40:15 menus[1]- 11:12, 11:22, 65:16,65:22, 18:13,71:18 22:13
60:15 12:1, 12:5, 18:3, 66:3,66:8,66:13, near[31-16:1, notes 1 72:9
market[s]- [ ]-
6:10,24:7,24:8, merits[11-53:9 18:18, 18:19, 66:15,66:17, 16:2 nothing[5]-
24:9,35:14, MICHAEL[1j- 71:12,71:16 66:19,66:20, nearby[1]- 42:7,43:10,46:7,
41:17 2:5 move[4]-18:4, 66:21,68:1,68:7, 70:12 63:18,68:4
Marketplace 131 midnight[1]- 45:10,45:13, 68:10,71:13, necessarily[1]- notice[11-
-33:17,34:5, 27:3 45:14 71:14 32:20 20:15
63:4 might[5]-4:20, moved[s]- MS[471-2:2, necessary[11- November[11-
Marlys[1]-2:15 12:10,33:10, 3:10,9:10, 11:5, 2:6,2:10,6:18, 29:4 1:14
Mart[21-45:12, 33:12,40:9 12:2, 18:20, 7:9,7:16,8:9, need[3]-9:16, number[9]-
45:19 Mike[11-7:12 71:13 8:18,8:22,9:1, 9:17,30:4 8:20, 14:8, 14:10,
matter[1]-1:13 mileage[1]- moving[21- 9:6,9:19, 10:4, negative[21- 20:14,24:4,47:2,
' 10:8, 10:13, 12:4, 14:21,37:2
matters[1]- 66:9 11:21,42:23 47:3,47:17,
70:10 miles[31-25:8, MR[1301-2:3, 15:6, 18:8, 18:22, neighborhood 47:23
matures[21- 45:3 2:4,2:5,2:7,2:8, 30:24,32:2,33:1, [31-4:21,4:24, numbers[21-
64:9,65:20 Mill[31-7:21, 2:9,3:10,3:12, 34:21,35:20, 6:6 35:6,36:1
' maturity[11- 7:22, 10:14 3:23,4:1,6:14, 36:5,37:19, neighboring[1j
64:10 million[3]- 6:15,616,6:20, 41:10,45:24, -47:4 O
mayor[z1-43:1, 65:7,65:9,65:10 6:21,6:22,7:4, 46:10,46:15, neighbors[11-
--
mind[z1-26:3, 7:12,7:14,7:18, 51:14,52:19, 46:23
43:5 52:23,53:2,54:3, network[21- o'clock[51-
Maywood 111- 53:16 7:20,7:21,7:22,
1 25:12 mindful[21- 7:24,8:1,8:2, 54:10,54:17, 24:16,38:17 23:12,27:1,58:4,
McDonald's[2]- 20:16,46:22 8:4,8:7,8:10, 54:19,55:4,56:4, never[41-38:8, 58:8
5:2,24:3 mine[3]-53:11, 8:11,8:12,8:13, 62:7,62:18, 56:11,56:16, Oak[1]-68:8
mean[21- 56:5,56:19 8:15,8:16,8:19 62:24,65:2, 57:7 objection[1]-
29:16,46:6 minimum[1]- 8:24,9:2,9:4, 65:10,65:15, new[31-37:16, 39:13
means[11- 64:12 9:5,9:8,9:12, 67:12 45:14,47:1 observed[2]-
48:20 minutes[z]-
9:14, 10:11, muffler[11-8:17 news[11-4:23 27:7,57:7
meant 11 -36:6 28:17,53:17
10:14, 10:16, multiple[11- next[4]-35:4, obtain[2]-
9
measures[21-
mitigate[21- 10:18, 10:19, 24:1 41:23,46:5, 69:11,69:21 67:20,69:19 67:20,69:19 10:20, 11:5, 11:6, Municipal[1
]- 59:18 obviously[21-
11:9, 11:13, 13:2 nice[41-14:16, 13:18,27:24
medical 111- mitigated[11-
36:23 52:7 11:18, 12:2, 12:3, municipal
[1]- 39:1,46:12,61:8 occupancy[11-
meet[21-55:13, Moe[41-22:14, 12:10, 12:14, 13:15 niche[11-67:10 7018
66:9 38:22,39:11, 12:17, 13:9, municipality[4] night[51-14:5, occupied[1]-
MEETING[11- 58:1
13:16, 18:4, -29:22,64:4, 23:12,58:4, 2214
Depo•Court Reporting Service (630) 983-0030
81
occupying[1]- 65:3,65:4,65:5 45:4,72:17 23:5 68:20 49:21,72:10
58:24 one-and-a-half Orland[41- Park[3]-25:12, per p]-18:18, plan[1o]-26:18,
occurs[1l- [i]-65:5 32:5,32:6,32:7, 32:6,32:8 50:13,50:14, 44:6,49:19,
35:19 ones[1]-32:2 36:6 parking[351- 51:16,51:23, 51:23,51:24,
OF[4]-1:5, open(131-3:8, OTB[241-15:7, 5:14,40:8,40:13, 52:18,64:17 55:23,56:14,
1:11,72:1,72:2 3:18, 11:22, 12:1, 15:16, 15:21, 49:14,49:17, percent[9]- 70:20,70:21,
off-site[1]- 18:18,26:24, 16:8, 17:11, 49:19,49:20, 17:12,57:10, 70:24
70:20 28:14,29:8,36:8, 17:19,22:7, 50:2,50:9,51:10, 64:19,64:21, Plan[31-5:5,
off-street[i]- 36:13,46:5, 22:16,22:20, 51:19,52:2,52:5, 64:22,65:3,65:4, 14:2,69:5
55:12 52:15,56:23 24:12,34:24, 52:15,54:2,54:5, 65:5,70:3 PLAN[i]-1:4
off-track[201- opened[31- 35:3,35:6,36:8, 54:6,54:16,55:2, percentage[1]- Planning[2]-
13:4, 15:7, 16:14, 36:9,43:6,45:4 43:5,43:14, 55:6,55:10, 64:17 41:19,42:18
16:23, 17:9, opening[21- 43:20,45:20, 55:12,55:14, perhaps[3]- Plano[21-
19:14,21:4, 25:5,25:11 65:6,67:2,67:8, 55:20,56:8, 33:24,44:11, 14:14,43:1
24:16,28:19, operate[21- 67:15,68:22, 56:13,56:22, 64:11 plans[41-37:1,
29:10,30:14, 23:14,24:24 69:13 57:1,57:9,58:9, perimeters[i]- 37:3,42:8,42:19
32:20,37:4, operated[1]- OTBs[2]-65:11 70:12,70:13, 25:4 plant[1]-4:12
37:11,46:12, 57:16 otherwise[21- 70:14,70:20, period[i]- plenty pi-58:9
48:7,64:5,64:19, operates[11- 50:17,69:10 70:21 64:11 plus[21-51:15,
69:7,70:7 22:10 Ottawa[il parlor[1]-69:20 permit[31-52:6, 64:14
offers[21- operating[31- 39:10 parlors[1]- 52:8,70:18 point[4]-7:12,
43:24,69:4 19:14,46:16, outcome[21- 28:20 permits[2]- 27:12,36:14,
office[3]-5:12 61:10 17:3,72:15 part[51-10:23, 69:12,69:15 41:1
old[4]-8:13, operation[7]- outlots[1]-34:5 12:14, 12:18, permitted[i]- Point[i]-67:2
21:14,38:24, 14:18,26:19, outside[3]- 44:3 15:17 pointed[1]-
' 43:6 31:6,46:20, 17:5,27:21,38:3 participant - permitting[1l- 40:1
old's[1]-60:19 54:21,55:15, overflow[71- 50:16 59:16 police[4]-28:8,
older[1]-5:6 69:13 4:6,40:13,52:5, particular[41- personal[21- 28:18,31:13,
older-type[1]- operations[7]- 52:20,56:12, 7:7,33:8,38:22, 40:24,63:9 43:13
5:6 26:23,26:24, 57:9,70:14 56:1 pertaining[1]- Poplar[1 30:7
on-site[2]- 29:10,51:15, overs[i]-40:19 particularly p]- 70:10 popular p -
34:17,51:19 51:20,52:11, overtook[11- 33:19 Peru[1]-36:9 57:4
on-track[1]- 56:13 56:17 parties[21- petition[31- population[1]-
29:10 operator[11- own[31-27:8, 72:13,72:14 15:14,49:12, 42:3
once[1]-53:22 20:24 39:5,53:9 Partners[11- 50:10 portion[21-
one[56]-5:3, operators[1]- owner[6]-5:21, 54:10 Petitioner[71- 1:12,71:22
5:22,8:7,9:21, 26:14 34:18,34:22, parts[1]-12:12 19:10,69:11, positive[41-
9:23, 15:1, 15:5, opinion[41- 57:14,58:2, pass[1]-24:3 69:17,69:21, 6:11,21:18,
15:18, 16:10, 42:16,42:20, 70:12 past[4]-20:21, 70:5,70:11, 23:18,47:14
16:18, 19:7, 42:22,63:10 owners[7]- 21:2,26:12, 70:19 positively[11-
20:13,21:8, opportunities 4:17,6:9,25:21, 68:13 petitioner[3)- 14:23
21:10,21:17, [1]-62:13 58:21,58:23, patron[11 12:23,51:9,71:5 positives[11-
21:24,22:5, opportunity[41- 60:4,60:9 70:22 Petitioner's[i]- 13:24
22:11,24:4,24:6, 47:1,58:9,66:23, patrons[3]- 69:6
possibility[3]-
24:20,24:22, 68:21 -- P 28:3,29:1,29:5 petitioners[6]- 34:2,34:7,55:1
25:14,27:14, opposed[l]- pattern[1]-52:2 13:17, 13:21, possibly[31-
27:19,28:23, 60:8 PC[6]-3:19, 14:17,20:5,21:2, 36:18,50:14,
30:1,30:15, opposite[21- p.m[r1-1:15 7:3, 11:3, 11:23, 50:1 55:2
pacer[il-14:5 petitioning[ ] Post[31-11:24,
30:22,32:24, 34:13,35:16 18:18, 19:3 titionin -
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33:5,35:3,36:8, ordinance[31- packet[11-8:5 people[241- 62:3 12:23, 19:10
38:13,39:17, 14:24,55:6, Pages[1]-72:7 14:17,21:21, phone[i]- potential[2]-
39:24,42:21, 55:14 paid[11-64:23 21:22,23:10, 62:11 59:6,65:24
44:14,45:24, ordinances[11- panic[i]-28:16 33:23,34:10, phonetic[1]- potentially[3]-
47:2,47:17, 51:16 Pantry[i]- 35:7,35:13, 4:13 29:1,49:18,56:3
47:23,48:6, organizations 38:24 35:14,37:24, physical[21- precautions[1]
48:14,49:5, 11]-24:24 parallel[1]-8:6 38:16,49:22, 17:1,33:12 -29:4
50:23,51:10, oriented[41- parcels[41- 50:6,57:23,58:2, picture[1]-20:8 precedent[2]-
53:5,58:20, 22:24,59:22, 7:14, 15:23, 58:10,58:12, place[9]-4:18, 49:24,51:3
58:24,60:21, 59:23,61:11 17:17,33:14 60:1,60:4,62:14, 5:11,8:17,9:10, preclude[i]-
61:20,63:22, original[2]- parents[1]- 64:1,68:17, 17:4, 17:16,28:5, 25:10
Depo•Court Reporting Service (630) 983-0030
82
' precursor[11- 20:19,70:23 29:16, 30:1, receiving[1]- 8:17 44:4,44:17,57:6,
62:3 protection[11- 30:10,43:8, 35:23 repeat[11-3:4 60:21,67:16
premises[21- 28:8 47:23,48:1,48:3, recently[21- Report[11-72:7 restaurants[6]-
17:2,28:1 protocol[1]- 49:11,53:13, 21:5, 32:12 report[21-1:11, 34:4,34:8,34:23,
prepared[1]- 28:5 61:19,67:24, recognize[1]- 5:5 35:10,62:1
41:14 provide[6]- 71:8 65:23 reported[11- restricted[1]-
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17:6 62:24,67:18, 34:13,57:15 -6:11 reporter 111- retail[4]-54:2,
presence[1] 69:17 recommendati 30:3 54:7, 55:21,
45:7 provided[11- R on[51-15:9, Reporter[11- 55:23
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presentation[3] 11:3, 11:7, 11:22, 25:24
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prevention[11- 50:21,50:23
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raise[z1-3:4, regards[31- requirements 28:21
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PROCEEDING 27:20,28:8, Randall[21-
21:11, 39:18 registered[al- 31:1,37:19 Rockford[11-
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5:19,5:22 15:24, 17:18 realtor's[11
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69:24, 70:10, 6:24, 10:23, 64:4 safety[z1-29:4,
17:23, 19:7, received[11- 50:5 5:2, 17:10,22:6,
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p p
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' Depo•Court Reporting Service ( 630) 983-0030
83
' SALLE[1]-72:2 51:5,60:23,63:8 signed[1]- 56:3,56:17, 9:22,30:2 stores[3]-37:8,
SANDRA[i]- separated[i]- 72:18 56:20,56:23, standard[1]- 43:20
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satellite[1]- seriously[3]- 31:9,49:21 Special[1]- standardbred 41:14
28:9 26:20,29:6, simply[1]-24:5 13:5 [i]-14:3 strain[1]-57:1
satisfaction[1]- 29:17 simultaneously special[22]- standards[1]- strategic[1]-
' 71:6 serve[1]-34:15 p]-17:3 13:13, 13:20, 55:14 26:13
Saturday[4]- served[i]- single[i]-45:6 15:13, 16:11, standing[5]- Street[3]-45:3,
40:10,50:19, 42:16 sit[3]-34:8, 16:15, 16:16, 40:8,41:12, 46:17,63:22
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55:6 43:13 34:8 37:22,38:1,40:6, start[i]-23:12 34:19,37:4,
school[6]- services[2]- site[8]-30:14, 50:22,51:21, started[2]-4:6, 40:16,55:12,
' 16:1, 16:3, 16:4, 70:22,70:23 34:17,42:4, 52:8,52:10, 39:3 55:24
61:3,61:4 serving[1]- 46:16,51:15, 67:22,70:14, STATE[1]-72:1 strength[1]-
School[1]-61:3 22:3 51:19,56:24, 71:4,71:7 State[5]-21:23, 47:12
schools[1]- set[6]-17:16, 70:20 special-type[i] 27:7,2818, strengthening
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second[17]- setting[1]- 56:16,56:19 specifically[1]- 25:20,26:20, 35:1
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' 14:19, 15:1, 18:7, 56:20 size[1]-24:5 spend[1]- 66:10 17:2
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' secondary[2]- shady[i]- societal[i]- spent[i]-38:23 48:22 submit[i]-
16:4,38:6 44:22 48:10 sport[3]-26:20, states[1]-25:7 70:19
section[2]- shall[lo]-69:7, sold[1]-39:4 68:12,68:14 stations[i]- submitted[2]-
' 60:20,60:22 69:17,69:21, solid p]-46:7 Sporting[21- 40:19 56:15,71:1
security p]- 70:3,70:5,70:17, someday[1]- 35:12,35:15 statistics[2]- subsequently
14:21,22:20, 70:19,70:21, 42:2 sporting[2]- 35:18,35:21 [1]-42:15
23:15,27:5, 70:24,71:5 someone[2]- 23:4,69:9 statute[2]- subsidized[1]-
' 27:20,28:6, shaped[3]- 3:21,55:22 Sports[io]- 25:7,64:18 64:22
67:17 20:17,51:18, somewhere[1]- 11:23, 12:22, stenographer success[i]-
see[12]-32:4, 54:13 27:3 19:3, 19:9,21:1, [1]-53:19 34:12
34:19,35:17, share[3]- sorry[3]-6:20, 22:10,26:15, step[1]-41:23 successful[2]-
' 35:24,37:7, 23:16,24:7,62:7 9:19,36:6 58:6,59:22,60:8 steps[1]-20:13 23:6,28:23
43:19,45:23, shared[3]- sort[1]-49:1 sports[3]-23:2, Steve[7]- succinct[i]-
46:20,56:24, 56:8,67:13, source[1i- 51:20,70:2 20:24,21:3, 43:4
59:4,61:12, 70:11 43:21 spot[1]-67:9 22:10,57:15, sufficient[1]-
62:20 shirt[1]-66:18 south p]-4:4, spring[1]- 58:15,61:5, 70:13
seeing[1]- shopping[2]- 7:22,7:24,8:7, 41:16 66:14 suit[2]-72:13,
43:18 33:16,63:3 19:19,22:9,59:1 Square[1]-45:5 Steve's[3]- 72:14
seek[i]-52:13 Shorthand[i]- square[i]- 22:22,44:20,
southeast[�]- sulkey[i]-14:4
seem[1]-57:3 72:4 45:3 45:16 60:3 Sunday[2]-
selected[i]- shorthand[2]- southern[1]- SS[1] 72:1 still[6]-5:24, 58:7,58:11
47:8 72:5,72:9 25:4 Staff[1o]-5:4, 8:15,32:6,36:13, Sunflower[1]-
' sense[2]- show[2]-8:10, southwest[3]- 5:5,6:13, 14:23, 37:15,39:5 47:20
38:13,65:3 35:18 20:8 20:18 15:8, 15:20, 16:6, Stoney[1]-67:2 Super[4]-45:8,
sensitivity[i]- showing[1]- 39:11 17:9,52:9,69:2 stood[1]-60:10 45:11,45:12,
28:3 35:20 space[3]-50:5, staff[3]-55:4, stop[3]-40:21, 45:19
' sentiment[1]- shows[1]-5:19 58:24,70:4 67:6,69:4 57:24,58:1 super[1]-45:19
67:13 shy[2]-24:18, spaces[12]- Staffs[21- store[1]-14:14 support[2]-
separate[9]- 44:15 39:8,51:15, 16:19, 17:19 stored[i]-4:8 38:8,44:10
22:18,22:20, side[4]-4:4, 51:16,53:24, stage[1]-6:23 storefronts[i]- supporting[6]-
' 26:8,31:4,51:1, 4:10,7:23,39:17 54:11,54:12, stand[3]-3:4, 32:15 25:15,25:18,
' Depo•Court Reporting Service (630) 983-0030
84
' 25:19,25:20, 68:20 took[1]-38:24 63:18,68:3,68:4 UNIDENTIFIED 28:9
25:23 tendency[1]- top[4]-20:18, trying[5]- [1]-65:9 venue[18]-
supports[i]- 49:1 20:22,24:6,52:9 34:22,36:14, unique[2]- 24:23,25:5,25:7,
61:7 tenure[1]- total[3]-22:2, 49:8,53:6,53:19 43:17,43:21 25:8,25:11,26:2,
surcharge[3]- 28:19 54:3,64:21 tucked[1]- unit[1]-51:18 26:4,26:11,
64:20,64:21, term[1]-55:23 totally(71-22:7, 22:12 UNITED[1]-1:5 27:22,29:19,
' 64:23 terms[6]-20:6, 22:24,39:22, Turf[2]-43:4, United[4]- 44:16,45:4,
surrounding[3] 23:10,36:22, 44:7,44:9,48:14, 46:10 12:24, 19:11, 45:14,45:17,
-32:16,33:7, 38:20,40:3 60:13 turn[1]-42:11 70:6,71:4 45:21,46:9,
33:14 testimony[2]- touched[2]- turned[z]-5:10, units[1]-22:12 64:12,64:19
surveillance[3] 63:16,73:1 63:23,66:4 22:23 unlikely[1]- venues[9]-
-27:21,28:7, text[1o]-12:15, towards[4]- TV[1]-38:17 24:21 24:18,25:1,
70:7 12:20, 13:7, 28:3,41:1,61:9, two[18]-3:1, up[26]-8:1, 25:18,27:23,
survey[i]- 13:14, 13:18, 68:20 5:23, 12:12, 14:9, 14:7,22:2,25:5, 28:9,29:10,44:1,
' 31:12 14:24, 15:6, tower[1]-42:3 23:9,24:2,24:6, 26:24,28:14, 44:4,45:22
Susan[2]-10:8, 16:20, 17:22, town[6]-21:19, 26:6,37:22, 30:2,32:10,40:8, verify[1]-5:24
46:2 38:5 24:5,38:24,47:2, 46:15,47:3, 41:12,43:4,43:6, versus[2]-
' swear[3]-9:17, theft[1]-49:4 47:7,62:15 50:14,50:20, 43:11,43:15, 63:8,63:9
63:16,68:3 theirs[i]-31:1 Towns[1]- 52:18,60:9, 43:16,43:22, vetted[1]-
sworn[6]-3:6, themselves[3]- 19:18 64:19,64:21, 44:1,44:5,44:8, 31:12
9:18, 10:2, 19:21, 30:20,31:23, track[26]-13:4, 64:22 44:10,47:24, viewing[i]-
63:15,68:2 60:24 15:7, 16:14, two-and-a-half 54:1,54:14,59:1, 69:6
synergy[i]- thereof[2]- 16:23, 17:5, 17:9, [1]-64:22 60:1,64:15 village[2]-28:8,
47:11 72:15,72:18 19:14,21:4, two-county[1]- upper[i]-22:6 28:18
system[5)- they've[2]- 23:13,24:16, 14:9 upper-end[1]- Villages[1]-
27:9,27:10, 40:10,40:12 28:19,29:10, two-percent[2] 22:6 21:6
27:19,28:11, thinking[3]- 30:14,32:20, -64:19,64:21 upscale[3]- violation[i]-
70:7 8:3, 10:16,36:22 37:4,37:11, type[22]-4:21, 43:10,44:17, 71:3
Systems[2]- thorough[1]- 46:12,48:7,64:5, 4:23,4:24,5:6, 55:23 violence[1]-
28:6,28:7 31:11 64:19,66:5,69:7, 5:10,5:20,6:5, upset[1]-29:2 14:21
thoroughbreds 70:7 14:20,20:15, user[5]-4:17, visited[2]-
T [i]-23:11 tracks[3]-25:1, 21:20,21:24, 6:5,38:4,39:5, 56:24,57:8
thousands[i]- 25:22,26:12 27:17,32:22, 52:4 VITOSH[1]-
table[1]-7:13 37:23 traff ic[7]-4:19, 38:8,39:18, users[2]-55:8, 1:14
Tacos[4]-57:2, three[1o]-5:24, 45:15,52:2,52:7, 1 40:17,46:20, 62:12 Vitosh[2]-72:3,
6:18,7:14,9:12, 56:14,58:5, 49:24,53:6, uses[8]-6:6, 73:6
57:3,57:24 14:6, 19:17, 70:23 55:18,57:6,65:6 15:15, 16:8,40:2, volume[2]-
Tap[1]-600:1
' talks[i]- :1 37:22,50:17, Trail[3]-19:20,
types[2]- 54:22,56:10, 31:15,31:16
50:20,52:18 20:9,70:24 24:24,32:14 57:6 voters[3]-16:2,
tavern[i] :60:6 throughout[2)- trainers[2]- - --- -- - utilized[1]- 20:13,20:15
teachers s[1
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Tim[2]-68:2, transaction[1]- - - - - W
televised[i]- 68:8 ming[�]-42:9 27:6
t anscript[z]- U.S[i]-70:24 _ _-
17:4 Title[i]-13:2 72:9,72:18 Ultimate[i�]- wager[3]-17:3,
televisions[i]- today[5]-3:2, transportation 11:23, 12:22, vacant[4]- 27:17,68:14
23:3 42:6,60:18,61:1, [1]-56:14 19:3, 19:9,21:1, 8:23,8:24,32:15, wagering poi-
ten[1]-67:7 61:2 treat[�]-67:11 22:10,26:15, 37:8 13:4, 16:11,
'
tenant[6]-45:6, together[i]- trees[2]-9:2, 57:16,58:6, valet[1]-70:23 16:24, 17:13,
45:10,56:10, 24:3 9:7 59:21,60:8 Valley[1]-21:6 27:14,64:21,
56:20,58:24, Tollway[2]- Triple[2]-38:1, under[7]-5:21, Van[1 i]-4:4, 69:7,69:9,69:23,
69:13 21:15,43:6 50:15 41:18,44:15, 4:19,5:16,6:2, 70:2
'
tenants[9]- TOM[1]-2:3 trolley[3]- 49:11,64:18, 7:10,7:17,7:18, wagers[3]-
51:18,54:20, tomorrow[1]- 49:21,50:5, 72:19,72:21 8:6, 10:4, 10:6, 64:20,64:23,
54:24,55:9, 61:4 70:22 underage[2]- 15:17 65:6
' 57:17,57:19, ],67:20 69:19 Vanna - wait
tonight[7]-6:5, trolleys[1]- [ [1]-58:2
57:21,59:10, i
undeveloped[ ] 10:19 Wal 2 1-45:12,
63:2
13:18, 14:19, 40:13 [-39:22 variation[2]- 45:19
14:23,21:1, trotter[i]-14:4
tend[i]-40:20 23:20,47:6 true[il-72:8 unexperienced 52:13,52:14 Wal-Mart[2]-
' tended[i]- tons[1]-23:2 truth[6]-63:17, p]-67:4 ventures[1]- 45:12,45:19
' Depo•Court Reporting Service (630) 983-0030
r
85
rwalk[21-46:6, 50:14,51:11,
60:23 52:18,64:11,
' wall[21-46:6, 64:13,65:7,
46:7 65:23,65:24
watch[21- year-to-year[l]
38:18,68:12 -65:24
' Waukegan[1]- years[13]-4:5,
36:7 4:14, 11:10,
week[31-42:14, 21:14,26:12,
50:20,57:8 28:22,38:23,
welcome[31- 42:23,60:2,60:3,
10:20,41:2, 66:23,67:1,67:7
57:19 YORKVILLE 11]
welcoming[11- -1:5
33:22 Yorkville 1371-
west 141-4:10, 1:16, 12:24,
7:16, 19:19, 19:12, 19:20,
39:17 23:23,24:23,
western[11- 25:6,26:1,26:10,
25:4 30:7,30:22,
whatsoever[41- 32:10,33:3,
' 28:16,42:8,42:9, 33:23,34:1,34:3,
44:22 37:15,40:15,
whereby[1]- 41:21,42:13,
27:10 42:23,43:1,
whereof[11- 43:17,47:13,
73:1 47:20,49:13,
White[1]-68:8 50:3,50:10,
whole[51- 60:16,60:17,
50:16,51:5,54:2, 61:3,62:2,62:4,
63:17,68:3 67:3,68:22,70:6,
wide[1]-65:8 71:5
wife[11-38:22 Young[1]-2:15
window[11- younger[11-
27:15 22:23
wing[1]-39:3 youth[1]-23:4
winning[21-
64:20,64:23 Z
WINNINGER[1]
-2:10 Zenyatta[1]-
wishes[2]-7:7, 68:13
41:3 zoned[41-
witnesses[21- 17:18,39:19,
3:6, 10:2 39:20,39:22
wonderful[21- zoning[51-
68:12,68:21 5:20,611, 12:18,
wooded[21- 35:9,40:3
' 9:4,9:5 Zoning[1]-13:3
word[11-20:7
works[11-
43:22
worship[1]
16:3
Y
' yard[11-4:7
year[151-31:2,
37:23,44:15,
Depo•Court Reporting Service (630) 983-0030