Plan Council Minutes 2003 07-31-03 Pagel of 6
APPROVED pY THE
UNITED CITY OF YORKVILLE CQfAMITTEE/80ARD
Plan Council Meeting Minutes Ofd.: a� n —
Thursday, July 31, 2003
9:30 A.M.
Attendees:
City Administrator Tony Graff City Engineer Joe Wywrot
Public Works Director Eric Dhuse Planning Coordinator Anna Kurtzman
City Planner Mike Schoppe Lynn Dubajic— YEDC (arrived 10:15)
Tim Fairfield—Paramedic—BKFD (until 10:45) Jeff Freeman - EEI (until 11:15)
Lt. Don Schwartzkopf—YPD - (until 11:00) John Whitehouse—EEI
Tom Price—Conservation Design Forum(CDF)
Guests:
Ted Seenstra—B3 Consultants Richard Young—Kimball Hill Homes
John Phillipchuck - Attorney
Minutes
The minutes from the May 29, 2003 were accepted with two revisions. The date for the minutes accepted
at that meeting should be corrected to state May 8, 2003 and on page 2, second to last bullet, line three, the
words "292 feet" should be deleted.
The minutes from the June 26, 2003 were tabled because the Council did not receive copies.
PC 2002-27 FISHER PROPERTY (KIMBALL HILL HOMES)—PRELIMINARY PLAN
Administrator Graff noted that there is a fen on the property. Legally, the city will recognize its existence
however it will not be noted on the plat. Best efforts to maintain the current water character are to be
observed to minimize any impact on the fen. He also noted that the City Council has taken a position that
the City does not want an"Old" and "New" Faxon Road. Faxon Road will stay as Faxon Road so the main
collector(New Faxon Road) should be renamed. The name should be clarified before the preliminary plat
is sent to the City Council.
John Whitehouse went over his July 25, 2003 memo to Joe Wywrot and discussed the following items:
Streets and Right-of-ways
• The Kendall County Natural Resource Inventory(NRI) report, the Filed Tile Survey or an
endangered species report have not been submitted yet. The developer indicated that the Field Tile
Study would be completed soon.
• The main entrance should have one inbound and two outbound lanes. The outbound lane should be
widened to a minimum of 28' back-to-back in order to provide two lanes.
• The continued reconstruction of Faxon Road needs clarification. Mr. Wywrot stated that AMG
Homes will be reconstructed the "Old" Faxon Road up to High Ridge Lane. There will be
recaptures against Kimball Hill to help fund some of this work and also that done by the previous
developer. Kimball Hill will be responsible for reconstruction west of High Ridge up to the bridge
over the creek. It was discussed to take a closer look at the bridge to see if improvements are
needed.
• Utility lines should be relocated to the right-of-way along Faxon Road and Cannonball Trail.
Page 2 of 6
• Additional information should provide regarding the proposed extension of Faxon Road to Route
47 including the potential impact to the industrial area east of Route 47 (entrance to Amurol). It
was discussed that the City has not agreed that Faxon Road should go to Route 47. Also discussed
was Amurol's expansion and possible entrance. Mr. Wywrot stated that the extension of Faxon
Road is just in the planning phase and it should be verified that it is in proper alignment so if it is
decided to join it to Route 47 it can be done. Mr. Whitehouse and Mr. Schoppe agreed that if the
road is not going through to Route 47 other roads will need to be reconfigured to handle traffic
before preliminary plan approval. Mr. Graff stated that Smith Engineering's traffic Study should be
done by the end of August and should give direction as to the roads connection with Route 47. He
stated that he could have Smith Engineering review this and present a memo with their opinion.
• Several blocks in neighborhoods #2 and 43 may exceed the maximum block length. The actual
block length should be provided and this should be addressed in the agreement.
• Street lights should be added to the utility plan.
• Proposed road cross sections meet City standards.
Mr. Graff asked if there were any areas where parking should be limited to one side of the street and there
were none. Also, he informed the developer that a detailed traffic and signage plan may be needed at a
later date.
Mr. Wywrot brought up a concern regarding the curve on Cannonball Trail. If Faxon Road does not access
Route 47, Cannonball Trail will have more traffic on it. He wondered if there is an accident history at the
location. Lieutenant Schwartzkopf stated that during the winter there are minor accidents were cars slide
off the road. Mr. Wywrot suggested that the softening of this curve be addressed. It was also suggested
that if there are contribution to a road fund from the developer, they be used toward Cannonball Trail
improvements. Ways to soften the curve were discussed and it was suggested that this be addressed before
the City Council votes on the preliminary plat.
Soils
• The soils report was detailed and the recommendation is that all the recommendations of the soils
consultant be explicitly followed.
Storm Sewers
• Storm sewers have all been indicated. A comprehensive storm sewer design report will be required
with the final engineering plans. If infiltration is being promoted,the requirement for sump pumps
to be connected to a storm sewer system needs to be reviewed. The pumping of the storm water
through the sewer to the creek may be contrary to what is trying to be accomplished. An alternative
may be to allow the water to run across the rear yard grass. Mr. Wywrot stated that the standard is
in place to prevent storm water from getting into the sanitary sewer line. If people have a soggy
yard, they may route the sump pump into the sanitary line themselves.
• The plan indicates flood routing which could cause street flooding. Some overflow routing will
need to be along side yards to prevent this.
• Where storm sewer mains(18" or larger) cross streets they need to run from manhole to manhole as
opposed to curb inlet to curb inlet. A catch basin should be the last structure out of the pavement
before the manhole.
Page 3 of 6
Sanitary Sewers
• The sanitary sewers indicated on the plan are larger than necessary. The reasoning behind this
design was discussed and the developer's engineer stated he would review the plan. Also discussed
was routing the sewers to Cannonball Trail or the Rob Roy Creek Interceptor. They discussed the
temporary lift station being built for Kylyn's Ridge Unit 2 and the possibility of having it service
each area. It was suggested to have Deuchler review this and comment before the lift station is
built. Mr. Whitehouse noted that the site can be served by existing sanitary sewer and water. No
off-site easements are needed to get facilities to the property.
• The final routing for the Rob Roy Creek Interceptor needs to be determined in order to provide
easements on the final plat.
Water Mains
• The preliminary layout, water main sizing and hydrants appear to be adequate.
• The design engineer should take the Standard Specifications for water main pipe, valve spacing and
hydrant locations into consideration during the final design.
Preliminary Plat
• Lot dimensions should be added.
• The zoning and ownership of adjoining properties should be indicated.
Stormwater Management
• The drain tile study is needed to determine where the existing depressional storm water storage,
tributary to Blackberry Creek, discharges. The study could indicate the area is tiled to Rob Roy
Creek. If they are tiled to the Rob Roy Creek the water can still go to the Rob Roy Creek however
the maximum allowable release rate should not be used. The discharge rate needs to be adjusted.
• The large volume of water in the basins during a major storm will probably take an access of 72
hours to drawdown. This longer drawdown period should be considered when planting the basin.
The limits of the bounce in the basin should be addressed in the annexation agreement.
• All the detention areas are proposed to discharge to the Rob Roy Creek. This is technically
jumping watersheds so the Field Tile Study is essential.
• There is no cross culvert identify on Faxon Road for discharge from the eastern section of the
development.
• Grading behind lots 203 to 209 in the naturalized detention area should be revised due to an
excessive slope which could present a safety issue due to the proximity to the yards.
• Information relating to the possible jurisdiction of the Rob Roy Creek Drainage District should be
submitted for review. It is not known if it is still an active district. If it is, it could have an effect on
future tax bills and should be noted on final plats.
• Setbacks from the right-of-way should be observed for the retention/detention basins next to Faxon
Road.
Tom Price with CDF discussed his July 9, 2003 memo to Mr. Wywrot. There is a concern that the
development of this property could potentially change the recharge characteristics of the fen along the
Blackberry Creek. CDF made the following recommendations:
• Alter the site plan to allow for a more natural drainage system to recharge the fen. The current
design picks up most of the storm water which could be infiltrating the soil.
• If alteration of the drainage is not done, backyard storm sewers should be eliminated to allow
Page 4 of 6
stormwater to recharge the ground water. Rear-yard swale could be used.
• Infiltration beds have been identified as part of the retention basin. The concern is that these serve
as infiltration for the entire site. Relative to the site, they are small. While the soils do seem good
in regards to porosity and infiltration capacity there is a lot of drainage going through the site
which could lead to clogging in a relatively short time. It is recommended that the water discharge
to the lake which would be sealed so as not to drain water into the open space area during normal
rainfall. At times of excessive rainfall, the lake could spill out into the open space to the north
(area C) so it could infiltrate the soil.
There was discussion regarding the farm tiles supplying the fen. Mr. Price stated that without the Field
Tile Study it is hard to determine if they are supplying the fen. He also stated that in most cases the field
tile will not intercept all the recharge. The field tiles pick up surface water in larger rain events but under
typical rain conditions the water percolates into the ground and slowly makes its way to the fen and
Blackberry Creek. He stated that much of the water that is going into the soil is not getting to the
depressional area. Mr. Price explained that the fen is a place where the ground intercepts the water table.
If the water table is lowered due to diversion of the groundwater, no water will be going to it. The current
design is too efficient.
There was some discussion regarding the V3 Consultants groundwater recharge report. Mr. Price was
concerned that the report does not accurately depict how the groundwater is functioning on the site. He
sited the average annual runoff into the Blackberry Creek as 10 '/2" and the report indicates an average
annual runoff of less than an inch. Mr. Price stated that he felt that it is not events as infrequent as one or
two five-year events that contribute most of the ground water but it is rather fall, winter and spring
conditions of small rainfalls over a period of time that contribute to it.
It was discussed that the Preliminary Plan could be approved subject to the Field Tile Study being
conducted and reviewed by the engineers. Mr. Whitehouse stated that another question remaining with
regards to the preliminary plat is the City Council's decision on New Faxon Road which could significantly
impact the plan.
Mike Schoppe went over his July 31, 2003 memo:
General
• It was clarified that the development will be zoned R-2 and will not have a PUD.
• The petitioner is requesting Preliminary Plan not Preliminary Plat approval. The Preliminary Plan
includes the Preliminary Engineering Plan, Preliminary Plat and all supporting documentation.
Preliminary Plat
• The petitioner needs to add the name and addresses of the property owner, the proposed subdivision
name, R.O.W. and street widths, trees greater that 6" in diameter and the legal description to the
plan. If here are no qualifying trees,this should be noted on the plan.
• Filed Tile Study is needed.
• A statement from the Kendall County Soil and Water Conservation Service should be submitted.
• A Preliminary Landscape plan needs to prepared and submitted for review. The developer stated he
would have this for Mr. Schoppe's review on August 1, 2003. Mr. Schoppe stated he may not have
a written response by August 6, 2003 for the Plan Commission packets but would have a verbal
response for them at the August 13, 2003 meeting.
Page 5 of 6
• The Preliminary Plan complies with the design standards for R-2 zoning.
• The Preliminary Plan has properly addressed the Plan Commission's concern that the lots backing
up to Cannonball Trail be similar in width to existing lots in the area. The dimensions for these lots
should be noted on the plan.
• Three streets on the plan exceed the maximum block length. Due to the location of the streets there
isn't a problem with this but the annexation agreement should reflect it.
• Several members of the Plan Commission requested the southern most entrance to the development
be aligned with High Ridge Road. They felt a traffic study should be prepared and from this
information the best location for this entrance be determined. A traffic study was prepared and it
was recommended that it be reviewed by the City's traffic engineers so they can present this
information to the Plan Commission.
• Which open space lots being conveyed to the City and those owned by the HOA needs to be
identified. There was discussion regarding donating the flood plain either to the City or the Forest
Preserve District. Mr. Schoppe recommended that if it was donated,the City take it but not give a
credit to land/cash for the property itself but give one for any improvements such as a bike trail.
• The landscape medians should be City owned and HOA maintained.
• The park land cash requirements are proposed as 16.9 acres and a 12.56 acre park is proposed to
fulfill this requirement. The remaining 4.34 acres were discussed and the developer stated that they
would prefer to put this into the trail or bridge over the Rob Roy Creek. It was suggested that this
be reviewed by the Park Board.
• The location and size of the school/park site is acceptable. Ms. Kurtzman asked if the site needed
to have separate lots platted for the school and park sites. It was discussed that this will be needed
in the future however it hasn't been determined how to divide the lot yet.
• The Rob Roy Creek trail needs to be indicated on the plan. There is still a question where the path
will cross the railroad tracks. It was suggested that a note be placed on the preliminary plat
recognizing a future Rob Roy Creek Bike Path.
• A 40' landscape easement is needed on lots backing up to Cannonball Trail, a 30' landscape
easement is needed on lots backing up to Old Faxon and New Faxon Roads and a landscape
easement in needed on lots backing up to the Hoag property. It was discussed that the Hoags be
contacted to see if they prefer a landscape buffer or a fence along their property.
Preliminary Engineering
• Storm sewer discharge from the two westerly basins should not discharge directly into Rob Roy
Creek.
• It should be verified which streets are typical minor collectors and typical local residential streets.
Street names are also needed on the plan.
• A note needs to be added identifying that the park will be constructed to park development
standards.
Mrs. Kurtzman commented that there are a few lots with roads on three sides of the lot such as lots #72 and
#246. She noted that when setbacks are applied to these lots, only a narrow house will fit. She suggested
that the developer have their land planner review this because 40' will be cut off the lot with the setbacks.
It was decided that a meeting would be scheduled prior to Preliminary Plan approval with V3 Consultants,
Mr. Wywrot, Mr. Whitehouse, Mr. Price and Mr. Seenstra to review the best practices for the storm water
design.
Page 6 of 6
The Plan Council's recommended that the Preliminary Plan move forward to the Plan Commission subject
to the resubmission of documents requested at this meeting and their review and the meeting of the
engineers regarding stormwater management.
Additional Business
None.
Meeting adjourned at 12:20 P.M.,
Respectfully submitted,
Jackie Milschewski, City Clerk