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Plan Commission Minutes 2005 02-09-05 Page 1 of 5 APPROVED 5-11-05 UNITED CITY OF YORKVILLE PLAN COMMISSION YORKVILLE CITY HALL COUNCIL CHAMBERS WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 9,2005 Chairman Tom Lindblom called the meeting to order at 7 p.m. ROLL CALL Members present: Charles Kraupner, Clarence Holdiman, Anne Lucietto, Brian Schillinger and Tom Lindblom. A quorum was established. VISITORS Mayor Art Prochaska; Alderman Richard Sticka; John Wyath, city attorney; City Planner Mike Schoppe; Lynn Dubajic,Yorkville Economic Development Corporation; John Whitehouse, Engineering Enterprises, Inc. Also, see attached sign-in sheet. MINUTES Minutes from the Oct. 13 and Dec. 8 Plan Commission meetings were approved. PUBLIC HEARINGS 1. PC 2004-33 Midwest Development, LLC,petitioners, application to annex and rezone. See attached. 2. PC 2005-03 Aspen Ridge Estates, LLC, petitioners, application to annex and rezone. See attached. 3. PC 2005-02 Montalbano Homes and Conifer Group, LLC,petitioners, application to annex and rezone. See attached. 4. PC 2005-04 Don and Carol Hamman and Five H, LLC, petitioners, application to annex and rezone. See attached. 5. PC 2005-5 Arthur Meinzer/CCM Marketing, Inc. and Ronald Moyers and Sang Chu, petitioners, application to annex and rezone. See attached. Page 2 of 5 NEW BUSINESS 1. PC 2004-33 Midwest Development, LLC, petitioner, application to annex and rezone. Chairman Tom Lindblom reminded the Plan Commissioners and those in attendance that the matter before the Plan Commission is annexation and zoning. He said what is shown on the plan is not necessarily what will go on the property. This, he said, is the very beginning of the process. The petitioners have filed an application to annex and rezone from Kendall County A-1 to Yorkville R-2 One-Family Residence District. The property consists of about 102.75 acres on Fox Road east of High Point Road. Commissioner Anne Lucietto said she doesn't have a problem with annexation. Commissioner Brian Schillinger made a motion to recommend approval for annexation as request for PC 2004-33. Lucietto seconded the motion. The motion was unanimously approved in a roll call vote. Commissioners Charles Kraupner, Clarence Holdiman, Lucietto, Schillinger and Lindblom voted yes. Schillinger said he has concerns about recommending straight R-2 zoning. He said he'd feel more comfortable if the developers sought a R-2 PUD agreement. That way, he said, plans won't be able to change. Schillinger made a motion to recommend R-2 zoning for PC 2004-33 as requested. Lucietto seconded the motion. After discussion on the issue, the motion was unanimously defeated 5-0 in a roll call vote. Holdiman, Lucietto, Schillinger, Kraupner and Lindblom voted no. Responding to some of the concerns voiced at the public hearing, Lindblom said he agrees traffic is a major problem. Density, he said is another issue. If the city could work with the developer to draft a PUD agreement, some of these issues could be addressed, he said. Addressing the density issue. Schillinger said that while the city can't stop development, it could mold it. People who live on one-acre plus lots don't want to see five or six lots in their back yards. He'd like to see the developer adjust the proposed plans to better fit the development that's already there. Regarding the water issue, Kraupner said it might behoove residents of the area to encourage the developer to do extensive water mitigation plans in the PUD to address the water issues. Lindblom said that a few years ago when it rained 16-17 issues, the railroad tracks caused a big problem. John Whitehouse, with Engineering Enterprises, Inc., said there were Page 3 of 5 many problems in that rain and said every road ended up being a dam including Route 30. But that event was more of a 2000-year event, he said. As a possible solution to some potential water problems, Whitehouse suggested that the plan could be reorganized so that the number of lots stays the same,but the houses could be put on smaller lots to create larger retention areas. The water can be handled fine within the subdivision, however, he said that doesn't address the problems on land north of the property. He said planners should do, as much as they can on the property with the assumption that land north of it will be agricultural for a while yet. A PUD plan would allow the city flexibility to better accommodate that, he said. Lindblom asked that if the city went back and suggested a PUD agreement, would there be another public hearing. City Planner Mike Schoppe said yes. 2. PC 2005-03 Aspen Ridge Estates Lucietto made a motion to recommend approval of annexation for PC 2005-03 as requested. Schillinger seconded the motion. The motion was unanimously approved in a roll call vote. Lucietto, Schillinger, Kraupner, Holdiman and Lindblom voted yes. As for zoning, Lucietto said the Plan Commission has many of the same concerns it had in the previous discussion regarding PC 2004-33. While he said he appreciates all of the things the developer is doing, Schillinger said he'd feel more comfortable with a PUD. Attorney David Meek, representing the petitioner, said the petitioner would address many of the concerns and engineering issues. He added that an annexation agreement could provide the protection the city wants rather than a PUD agreement. He said a PUD is not necessary and he asked that the city not lump these two developments together. Lindblom said he didn't agree with Meek. He said that by recommending straight R-2 zoning, the developer could do whatever he liked. This property is special and unique and he would like to seem dome controls put into the development. Over the past two months, the magnitude of requests for development in this area is such that the city needs to carefully control the developments, he said. A motion by Lucietto to recommend approval of rezoning for PC 2005-03 was unanimously defeated in a roll call vote. Schillinger seconded the motion. Schillinger, Kraupner, Holdiman, Lucietto and Lindblom all cast dissenting votes. 3. PC 2005-02 Montalbano Homes and Conifer Group, LLC, petitioners. Page 4of5 Lindblom asked why one lot on the property doesn't want to annex into the city. He said it seems strange they'd be surrounded by the city on three sides, but not want to annex into the city. Andy Fitz, attorney for the petitioner, said it's not unlikely for someone to retain an outlot in a development like this and not want to annex to the city. Whitehouse commented that if the well and septic on the property went bad, Kendall County would require the property to connect to the city's water and sewer services. The city would then allow it, but only if the property was annexed into the city. On the zoning issue, Holdiman said he has a problem giving straight zoning until he's sure what's going on the property. Fitz said the application for straight R-2 zoning was based on discussions with city staff. Lindblom said he doesn't have a problem with the lot sizes in the proposed development. However,he's looking for a guarantee that what is shown is what the city will get. Fitz said everything from fees to lot sizes would be negotiated in the annexation agreement. Annexation of the property was unanimously approved while the zoning request was unanimously rejected. Schillinger made a motion to recommend approval for annexation of PC 2005-02 when contiguous as requested. Kraupner, Holdiman, Lucietto, Schillinger and Lindblom voted yes. Kraupner made a motion to recommend rezoning to R-2 as requested in PC 2005-02. Holdiman seconded the motion. Holdiman, Lucietto, Schillinger, Kraupner and Lindblom voted no. 4. PC 2005-04 Don and Carol Hamman and Five H, LLC, petitioners. Lindblom said the requests for PC 2005-04 should be broken down to three votes—one on annexation, one on the M-2 zoning request and one for the special uses. When asked what uses were approved in M-2 zoning, Schoppe said all of the permitted uses in M-1 would fall into that category. He said there are 12 pages of allowable uses in M-1 and they include bakeries and bottling businesses. The M-2 zoning allows more intense uses such as cement block manufacturers, contract builders, airport landing fields and ready-mix plants. Looking at the overall plan, Lucietto said her only concern is for the resident who lives in the lower left corner. Schillinger made a motion to recommend approval for annexation of PC 2005-04 as requested. Lucietto seconded the motion. The motion was unanimously approved in a roll call vote. Lucietto, Schillinger, Kraupner, Holdiman and Lindblom voted yes. Page 5 of 5 Lucietto then made a motion to recommend approval for M-2 zoning as requested for PC 2005-04. Holdiman seconded the motion. The motion was unanimously approved in a roll call vote. Schillinger, Kraupner, Holdiman, Lucietto and Lindblom voted yes. Lucietto made another motion then to recommend approval for M-2 special use for PC 2005-04 as requested. Schillinger seconded the motion. The motion failed in a 0-5 vote. Kraupner, Holdiman, Lucietto, Schillinger and Lindblom voted no. Schillinger said granting a blanket special use permit to the entire area scares him. 5. PC 2005-05 Arthur Meinzer/CCM Marketing, Inc. and Ronald Moyers and Sang Chu petitioners. Schillinger made a motion to recommend approval for annexation of PC 2005-05 as requested. Kraupner seconded the motion. The motion was unanimously approved in a roll call vote. Holdiman, Lucietto, Schillinger, Kraupner and Lindblom voted yes. Schillinger asked that with the proposed changes to Route 126, does the petitioner still want to move forward. Neil Goldman, attorney for the petitioner, said that petitioner is willing to go forward with the application as it stands. Kraupner made a motion to recommend approval for B-3 for PC 2005-05 as requested subject to an annexation agreement. Lucietto, Schillinger, Kraupner, Holdiman and Lindblom voted yes. The meeting adjourned at 9:17 p.m. Minutes respectfully submitted by Dina Gipe PLAN COMMISSION MEETING UNITED CITY OF YORKVILLE , ILLINOIS REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS had at the meeting of the above-entitled matter taken before CHRISTINE M . VITOSH, C . S . R. , R . P . R . , on February 9 , 2005 , at the hour of 7 : 00 p .m. , at 800 Game Farm Road, in the City of Yorkville, Illinois . D-747605 REPO • COURT reporting service 800 West Fifth Avenue • Suite 203C • Naperville, IL 60563 • 630-983-0030 • Fax 630-983-6013 www.depocourt.com 2 1 P R E S E N T : 2 MR . TOM LINDBLOM, Chairman; 3 MR . CHARLES KRAUPNER; 4 MR . CLARENCE HOLDIMAN; 5 MS . ANNE LUCIETTO; 6 MR . BRIAN SCHILLINGER; 7 MR . MIKE SCHOPPE ; 8 MS . DINA GIPS . 9 A P P E A R A N C E S : 10 WYETH, HEITZ & BROMBEREK 300 East Fifth Avenue , Suite 380 11 Naperville , Illinois 60563 ( 630 ) 355-1458 12 BY : MR . JOHN JUSTIN WYETH, appeared on behalf of the United 13 City of Yorkville, Illinois . 14 15 - - - - - 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 3 1 ( Pledge of Allegiance) 2 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Motion passes . 3 At this time I would ask anybody in the audience 4 to please stand and raise your right hand and 5 repeat after me . 6 (Witnesses sworn) 7 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Okay . 8 PC 2004-33 is the first item on the agenda , 9 Midwest Development , LLC, petitioner, has filed 10 an application with the United City of Yorkville , 11 Kendall County, Illinois , requesting annexation 12 to the United City of Yorkville and rezoning from 13 Kendall County A-1 Agricultural to United City of 14 Yorkville R-2 One-Family Residence District . 15 The real property consists of 16 approximately 102 . 75 acres on Fox Road east of 17 Highpoint Road, Kendall Township, Kendall County, 18 Illinois . 19 At the beginning of this public 20 hearing I would just state for the public record 21 that we have received a petition from neighbors 22 regarding this petition . 23 And who might be speaking for 24 the petitioner? Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 4 1 WHEREUPON : 2 GREGG INGEMUNSON, 3 having been first duly sworn, testified before 4 the Plan Commission as follows : 5 MR . INGEMUNSON : I will . 6 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Gregg, have you 7 got an exhibit you wish to put up there . 8 MR . INGEMUNSON : Yeah, a couple of 9 them here . We ' ve got a couple of easels over 10 there . I ' ll get them, Tom. 11 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Gregg, I believe 12 you ' ve been advised that the transcript of the 13 meeting, for those of you that were here and 14 spoke at that time , will be part of this record . 15 MR . INGEMUNSON : That ' s right . 16 That ' s right . 17 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Okay . Gregg . 18 MR . INGEMUNSON : There is two 19 concept plans up here . This is the first one 20 that I think you guys have in your packet , and 21 it ' s been revised, this one here , so I just want 22 to show some of the differences between the two . 23 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Excuse me . Can 24 the people in the audience see those , too? Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 5 1 AUDIENCE : No . 2 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Gregg, can you 3 just put them flat against the -- I think 4 everybody here can see them, if they ' re -- There 5 you go . 6 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Is that better 7 for everybody? 8 AUDIENCE : Yes . 9 MR. INGEMUNSON : Okay . I ' ll just 10 stand here . We start out with this plan here . 11 We ' ve already revised it to reflect this plan . 12 We will eliminate a cul-de-sac 13 up here in the northeastern corner, and actually 14 eliminated a lot and moved it down . 15 We as petitioners actually met 16 with some of the land owners in Fox Glen and 17 addressed hopefully some of their concerns , and 18 they have seen this one . 19 They haven ' t -- I think they 20 saw this one originally, but some of them now 21 have seen this one . It ' s a revised plan which 22 shows that we have eliminated that cul-de-sac . 23 Yes , this is the revised one . Eliminated the 24 cul-de-sac . Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 6 1 What we ' d like to do is annex 2 and rezone into the City of Yorkville R-2 and we 3 are asking for about 1 . 75 units per acre . 4 We ' ve got a proposed park in 5 the southeastern corner, 3 . 7 acres ; also, a 6 proposed park in the western edge of the 7 property . 8 The Park Board actually 9 recommended that they would not want to take 10 this , so we would like that reflected as open 11 space . 12 MR . SCHILLINGER : I ' m sorry, can you 13 point to that again? 14 MR . INGEMUNSON : This is the western 15 edge . 16 MR . SCHILLINGER : All right . 17 MR . INGEMUNSON : We have a 50-foot 18 buffer along Fox Road and three detention lakes , 19 as you can see, and that ' s been -- the detention 20 areas have been engineered to maximize the 21 detention out there , which we know -- we ' ve also 22 heard from people there ' s been some bad drainage 23 in that area . 24 And the open space here along Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 7 1 the western side , there is a creek, and by 2 maintaining this , we think this will maintain 3 that natural area the way it looks now and keep 4 that the way it is . 5 All the lots are 12 , 000 square 6 foot minimum. There is no -- We are not asking 7 for any change in any of the lot sizes out 8 there . 9 And we have one entrance into 10 the property and we have one emergency access , 11 and it is -- I believe -- I think between Lots 9 12 and 10 is the emergency access . 13 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Between 10 and 14 11 here . 15 MR . INGEMUNSON : This is the old 16 one . 17 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Okay . 18 MR . INGEMUNSON : I ' ll put this one 19 down now . We don ' t need that . Between 9 and 10 20 here there is an emergency access point which, of 21 course , we will close down once any other 22 developments hook in where there is other access , 23 and I think that ' s always a concern for the Plan 24 Commission . Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 8 1 Any questions ? 2 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : As a Commission, 3 we ' ll come back and discuss this again . At this 4 point then, I would ask questions or comments , 5 whatever, from the audience . 6 Sir, would you please come up 7 to the microphone and state your name and ask 8 whatever it is you care to ask? 9 WHEREUPON : 10 TED SCHNELLER, 11 having been first duly sworn, testified before 12 the Plan Commission as follows : 13 MR . SCHNELLER : My name is Ted 14 Schneller . I live at 33 Ford Drive, which is 15 just down the road from where the development is . 16 First of all , Gregg, has there 17 been any traffic studies done on how Fox Road may 18 or may not be able to handle the traffic? 19 MR . INGEMUNSON : I don ' t think we 20 did a traffic study . Pete, did we do a traffic 21 study up there? 22 MR . HUINKER : Actually we submitted 23 the plan to the locality -- 24 WHEREUPON : Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 9 1 PETE HUINKER, 2 having been first duly sworn, testified before 3 the Plan Commission as follows : 4 MR . HUINKER : I ' m sorry, Pete 5 Huinker, Smith Engineering . We submitted the 6 proposed plan to the County and basically based 7 off of past history is requesting that we have 8 both the left and right turn lane provided for 9 the access . 10 MR . SCHNELLER : As I said the last 11 time I was here , I think a lot of people have the 12 same concerns . 13 I don ' t know how Fox Road is 14 going to handle the traffic from this and the 15 four or five other developments that are planned 16 for the area . 17 I sat at the intersection of 18 Fox and 47 ; the light is 15 seconds for Fox 19 Street . That will let five cars through . 20 Now, this is going to generate, 21 I don ' t know how many cars , but I know if you 22 take this , Chelly, Fox Bluff, Evergreen, you are 23 talking about a total of about 297 cars . 24 Now, the intersection at the Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 10 1 present time can conceivably filter 185 cars an 2 hour, 2 , 797 cars in 15 hours . 3 Now, I know it ' s not your 4 responsibility to figure out how the road can 5 handle it , it ' s Yorkville ' s responsibility, how 6 is Yorkville going to handle all of those cars , 7 with not just this development , the other 8 developments . 9 Now, we all know this area is 10 going to be developed, you know, nobody is naive , 11 but aren ' t we putting the cart before the horse 12 with annexing, allowing the development of 13 thousands of homes with no way to handle it? 14 That ' s , you know, my biggest 15 question, and I am assuming that there ' s been 16 engineering studies with regard to the drainage . 17 That ' s certainly another issue . 18 The other concern that I have 19 and I think other residents have is although this 20 is a fairly low density in the scheme of things , 21 it ' s out of character for the area . 22 If you go west of Rivers Edge 23 and Fox Lawn, there is not a home that ' s on less 24 than an acre, and now we ' re talking about 1 . 75 Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 11 1 units per acre . 2 That ' s fairly dense for a city 3 that has traffic problems , school problems . How 4 are we going to handle it? I -- you know, that ' s 5 my biggest question . How are we going to handle 6 all these cars and the drainage and every other 7 problem that goes along with it? 8 I mean, I understand you have a 9 right to develop your property . It ' s America . 10 It ' s great . But shouldn ' t we figure out how we 11 are going to handle the development first? 12 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Okay . Thank 13 you . Gregg, do you have -- 14 MR . INGEMUNSON : Just respond to one 15 thing, I think they were paying $2 , 000 per lot 16 that goes into a traffic -- essentially a traffic 17 fund for the City of Yorkville, so there ' s going 18 to be 2 , 000 per lot and how many lots here? 178 . 19 So $360 , 000 that are going into the traffic fund 20 for Yorkville to help I assume whatever Yorkville 21 does , but I assume they will regionalize it 22 and -- 23 MR . SCHNELLER : Well , the other 24 problem with Fox Road is -- I don ' t care what you Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 12 1 do with Fox Road . You can make it ten lanes . 2 Until something is done with 47 , the end of the 3 funnel is only this big . You can make the top of 4 the funnel as big as you want, but water only 5 comes out at the bottom of the hole . 6 So, you know, it ' s not your 7 responsibility per se , but yet somebody has got 8 to do something about it . 9 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Okay . We have 10 some more displays coming up before us . 11 WHEREUPON : 12 DERVIN ALLEN, 13 having been first duly sworn, testified before 14 the Plan Commission as follows : 15 MR . ALLEN : Name is Dervin Allen, 12 16 Fox Glen Circle . I was here two weeks ago, just 17 made the pictures a little bit bigger . 18 What I wanted to show here 19 mainly, this is a one-inch rain . You can go back 20 to this date , it ' s there , you can check the 21 rainfall . It rained for two days . It ' s Sunday 22 afternoon . By the time Sunday evening comes , you 23 can see what we have . 24 They are showing their Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 13 1 development like this . Fine . If I look here, 2 you can see a swipe through this field right 3 where they are talking about development . The 4 farmer won ' t even plant the field . 5 It ' s a big swale through there , 6 water comes down through there , okay? 7 I know the engineering with the 8 lakes , they ' re going to slow down the water flow, 9 but you ' re going to increase it . You can only 10 hold back Mother Nature so long, okay? And 11 that ' s the way it ' s designed and engineered . 12 I understand that you will slow 13 down the water flow, you won ' t have this so fast, 14 but it ' s going to still be there, so we have 15 to -- I have a map of the whole thing, from Route 16 71 down to River Road, there is almost 200 feet 17 difference in elevation . 18 This is only one subdivision 19 you are talking about . You ' ve got five , six, 20 seven more out there, and it ' s all going to 21 increase and we know it, so we have to do 22 something with it . 23 Again, I ' ll even use the City ' s 24 one , and that even on their layout , you can see Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 i 14 1 it u there better . Let me et it so I ' m not p g 2 turned around here . 13 All the green areas that you 14 have all come down -- they stop at Fox Road . 5 They stop at Fox Road or they stop at the I6 railroad tracks . i 7 Those railroad tracks were B built at the turn of the century . It does not 9 have adequate drainage underneath it , even to 10 handle what we have here . It ' s all backed up . I 111 What I was trying to do with 12 this picture here is to show you the white fence 1,3 and the deck that you see on this gentleman ' s 1,4 house is this house right here . 15 Now you see how close the water 116 was to his picket fence in his back yard, and 1117 that ' s a walk-out basement . I guess it ' s 18 relevant now . Has anybody talked to the railroad 9 company? _�0 (No Response ) �1 MR . ALLEN : Anybody talked to them? �2 MR . INGEMUNSON : It ' s not our 3 responsibility to talk to the railroad . They are �4 not on our property . I i I Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 I 15 I l MR . ALLEN : That ' s what I ' m saying, 12 I don ' t know whose responsibility it is . 3 After -- I4 MR . INGEMUNSON : They ' re not on our 5 property . i 6 MR . WHITEHOUSE : I understand your I7 concern, but what is your suggestion? i8 MR . ALLEN : They have to upgrade the 9 railroad before we can do this . 10 MR . WHITEHOUSE : Can ' t . . 1 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Just a comment 1'2 for the public . Some of these questions that you 3 have -- help me with this , John, for sure -- but 4 what we are talking about tonight is annexation 15 and zoning . A lot of the engineering work and a 16 lot of that will come at a later date . � 7 MR . ALLEN : What date? I 18 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Traffic, water 9 flow, et cetera . 40 MR . WHITEHOUSE : John Whitehouse , �1 Engineering Enterprises . The railroad culvert �2 cannot be upsized . In the first place, the �3 railroad will not do it . And by opening up that 2�4 culvert from an existing condition, it ' s going to I Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 III 16 1 potentially endanger more people downstream. 12 Now, I understand that it is a problem, okay? 1 I3 Now, when the stormwater i I4 management facility for this subdivision and I5 everything else that ' s designed upstream, if and 16 when that develops , they are only allowed to I I7 discharge as much water, not just this . 15 or I8 point 1-CFS per acre that ' s allowed in the I 9 ordinance , but you also have to take into 1110 consideration the limiting factor of downstream, 111 okay? I 112 The limiting factor in this 113 entire watershed area is that culvert underneath I 1114 the railroad, okay? 1'15 So they may be only allowed to 116 discharge out of these basins . 03 , . 04 , . 05 , we 117 don ' t know . It will have to be based on 118 calculations of cubic feet per second per acre 119 because of that downstream limitation, because if 20 we let too much water go, just like that storm 21 you are talking about , it was a parking lot �2 essentially, everything ran off of that one-inch 23 rain . It accumulates down there and it doesn ' t li �4 get underneath the railroad . li Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 I I 17 i 1 We can ' t change the railroad, 2 but we can change the design parameters upstream 3 so that -- This is going to be the toughest part 4 to believe , and I ' m not saying that all of that 5 land is going to develop, okay, but if that land I6 is developed with everything downstream in 7 consideration, your drainage problem there will 18 be better off post-development than it is with an I9 open agricultural field right now, okay? 11,0 Now, that ' s the tough part to 1l'1 understand, okay? But if it ' s designed properly 12 and the release rates from all of the upstream 13 detention facilities are based on that most 1i4 restrictive -- It ' s no different than the 15 gentleman who spoke about Route 47 , being the Fox 1i'6 Road problem. It ' s the smallest thing in there, 7 and that culvert is the same thing and -- 8 MR . ALLEN : Just by opening li9 statement , I understand the way it ' s designed . I 20 It ' s designed to slow the water flow down, but it ,�1 will increase the water flow . J2 MR . WHITEHOUSE : It will increase �?3 the total amount of flow in most cases that -- �4 during certain storms -- I I Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 I 18 i 1 MR . ALLEN : If it ' s designed and I2 engineered right , you are exactly right . 3 MR. WHITEHOUSE : -- but it will 4 release it at a rate such that the culvert and 5 the railroad will handle it and it will never 6 back up like it does now . 7 MR . ALLEN : Okay . So it ' s not just 8 the culvert , it ' s running over the top of Fox 9 Road . One picture shows here . This is Fox Road 10 here . 1'1 MR . WHITEHOUSE : Right . 12 MR . ALLEN : The water is coming over 1��3 Fox Road right there , and that ' s just one part of 1%4 it . It ' s the whole thing . 15 MR . WHITEHOUSE : It ' s the exact same l6 theory, though . If the culvert underneath Fox � 7 Road is the most restrictive in there , then the 18 release rate upstream is going to be decided on �9 that culvert capacity, not the railroad culvert 20 capacity, okay? 1 So whichever one it is -- and, 22 granted, the water will run for a longer period �3 of time , so there may have to be some 24 improvements required by the City of the I I I Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 I i 19 I 1 developer downstream between Fox Road and the 12 railroad so that that water isn ' t spreading out 13 through somebody ' s yard . If there is easements 14 there, then -- 5 MR . ALLEN : I made my point . Fair 6 enough . i i7 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Okay . 8 MR . ALLEN : We talked about water, 19 but I would like to know where that would be l0 discussed at . It has to be addressed, and the 1 railroad is not -- one of them, for sure , it ' s 2 not signed here . 13 When I ' ve got seven-foot pipe 24 that is underneath the railroad that is not i 25 carrying, I mean, a trickle of water barely on �6 this day, right here, a trickle of water . 17 MR . WHITEHOUSE : Are you saying it ' s 18 because it ' s clogged? 9 MR . ALLEN : No . It ' s too high . �0 MR . WHITEHOUSE : It ' s too high . �1 MR . ALLEN : The one a hundred yards 22 west of it is two foot and it ' s trying to handle �3 all of it . 24 And then we ' re going to have Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 I I i i 20 I I the same problem with the other subdivision i 12 tonight , it ' s the same thing, and so that I3 railroad is a dike for that whole area . i4 MR . WHITEHOUSE : Right . 5 MR . ALLEN : I have a question for 16 the committee as a whole , planning commission . I7 Has anybody seen this book, 2005 from Kendall 8 County? It ' s brand new . 9 MR . SCHOPPE : Could you give us the 40 title of that book? 1 MR . ALLEN : Thoughts of Kendall �2 Township, Resources , Management Plan . I picked 13 it up at Saturday ' s meeting . I �4 One of the first problems 15 here -- and I ' ll lay off of it -- planning 16 processes . 17 The reason for this is to 48 promote intergovernmental working with each 49 other . It states right in here , first chapter of 0 it , okay? 21 I asked the county, I said, are 22 you talking to the city? No . City, are you '23 talking to the county? You guys haven ' t even i 4 seen the book, so that answered my question . Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 I I 21 1 MR . SCHILLINGER : You just got it i 2 when? I3 MR . ALLEN : Saturday . I was just at 4 Saturday ' s meeting . It was 2005 . It was a I5 revised 2002 book, but -- i 6 MR . SCHILLINGER : It just came out i I7 Saturday, though . i 8 MR . ALLEN : I don ' t know . Do you Ig know if it was their newest . 1'0 MAYOR PROCHASKA : It just came out . 11 It ' s their newest . i �2 MR. ALLEN : So one of the things I 13 am looking at here, we are looking at a 4 subdivision across the street from the 45 subdivision, okay? 46 There is our entrance , there is 47 their entrance . We are showing our subdivision 18 here , okay? 1g To the water issue , here is a �?0 big area right here because these two lots widens ,?1 out to these two lots , okay? �2 Where this retaining pond and �3 everything, this is already low lying . I didn ' t .?4 think we were allowed to construct things in low Service 630 983-0030 , Depo Court Reporting Ser e ( ) I 22 i I lying areas that already are . I don ' t know, I ' m I2 just asking, okay? This is where the water is I3 coming from. 4 There are very little areas 15 here that they haven ' t done something for the 6 water, okay? I ' ll let the other issue go . I7 My other issue is density, I8 okay? The County has that planned for one-acre 9 lots . That ' s what it was slated out there for . 110 When I moved out there and 1 invested my money, I looked at the area around �2 where it was going to be developed and how it was 13 going to be developed, and that was what this was 14 slated for . i 15 I really would like -- I am 16 recommending it come in at R-1 at least . That ' s � 7 my recommendation . The reason why, here is your i8 footprint . I 'm showing you a subdivision here . 19 Does this look natural to this between the two �0 subdivisions ? I 21 I mean, that ' s what I ' m going 22 to look at every day, okay? And when I bought I �3 and invested in property out there , that ' s what I �4 was underneath that plan . I know things change , I i I Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 I I 23 I 11 but it doesn ' t have to change that drastically . 2 I know when it comes down to 3 it , it ' s dollars . How much does it cost me to 4 put the sewer in, how much does it cost me to put 5 the water in, and how much I can make money . I6 Well , not at my expense , please . i7 And for the record, too, the 8 City map up there , White Oaks , the way I i I9 understand the new plan map that you ' ve got , 11,0 there would be no more over an acre and a quarter 1'1 lots in the city . Is that the way I understand 1,I�i2 that map? 13 On the bottom of it can you 14 give me the definition of what the size is on �5 that lot? 6 MR . SCHOPPE : I can answer that . 27 Mike Schoppe , the City ' s planning consultant . 48 The Comprehensive Plan calls for land use , and 19 you are right -- �0 MR . ALLEN : Excuse me , I didn ' t hear 1 you . I ' m sorry . 2 MR . SCHOPPE : The City ' s 23 Comprehensive Plan, both the current plan and the .�4 one that is being proposed that the City is I I Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 I i 24 l currently reviewing, call for this land to be in 2 an estate land use . You are correct with that . i3 The Comprehensive Plan, the 4 City ' s Comprehensive Plan, doesn ' t identify the �5 lot sizes for estate land use . I6 What it does say is that the 7 recommended zoning in that area is R-1 and R-2 , 8 okay, that ' s the only reference the plan has to 9 lot sizes . Now, just for reference -- 1i0 MR . ALLEN : This is the new draft 1'1 plan . Does the R-1 have a draft plan? . 2 MR . SCHOPPE : I was going to say, 13 the existing plan, existing Comprehensive Plan, 4 suggests that R-1 and R-2 zoning are appropriate 15 for estate . 6 R-1 zoning district has a i 17 minimum lot size -- this is a zoning ordinance 18 now -- the R-1 district has a minimum lot size of 29 18 , 000 square feet , the R-2 zoning ordinance says 0 a minimum of 12 , 000 square feet . �1 MR . ALLEN : So that ' s why I ' m 22 asking . I mean, that ' s more consistent with the �3 area , and -- 24 MR . SCHOPPE : And I see that . And I Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 I 25 1 this is what you ' ve got . I2 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Okay . 13 MR . ALLEN : They are both to scale . i4 Thank you . 15 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Thank you . Who 16 would like to be next? Gentleman over here . 17 WHEREUPON : 8 TOM GILMOUR, I 9 having been first duly sworn, testified before �0 the Plan Commission as follows : 1 MR . GILMOUR : My name is Tom 2 Gilmour, 23 Fox Glen Drive . We live across the i �3 street from the proposed development . 14 And without loading it down ad 15 nauseam with stereo of what you just heard, one 46 issue that crossed my mind is this disconnect 7 between the County ' s Comprehensive Plan and what 18 the City ' s plan is , and after looking at the 9 City ' s plan that , as we understood it , and you �0 clarified briefly what the definition of R-1 was , �1 what we are kind of curious about is why would ;2 many of these developments that are proposed down .�3 the road that everybody is going right out of the �4 box for R-2 zoning on, and if I may paraphrase i i Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 I II 26 I I what I read in the City ' s plan today, one of the 12 descriptions or objectives to be achieved with i3 the estate planning is to merge or blend into the 14 surrounding community where it ' s at, should have 15 a bearing on your decision as far as the zoning I6 goes . 7 If I ' m wrong, correct me, 18 but -- I could find it , I just can ' t find the 9 booklet right now, but we just wonder why we have 10 to go to R-2 . llll And one other question and I ' ll I 2 leave it , it seems to us like there is a 13 checkerboard effect moving down Fox Road as far 1,4 as actual proposed sites to the stage that we are 1i5 with Midwest tonight . We are kind of curious how 6 all the infrastructure is going to connect there . l7 For example, Evergreen Farm, �8 which, if I understand the line-up on the 19 proposed developments , has not even come before 0 the Board yet , yet Aspen Ridge is petitioning 1 right behind Midwest here . 22 How are you going to connect �3 the services up to Aspen Ridge? I know it ' s a �4 different issue , but it amplifies what we are i Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 i 27 I 1 trying to say as far as connecting the i2 development with a semblance of land . 3 MR . SCHILLINGER : Order? I I4 MR . GILMOUR : Order . Thank you . 15 Appreciate your time . I6 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Thank you . 7 MR . SCHOPPE : Tom, I think there was 8 a question as part of that that maybe I can 9 answer for the gentleman . 10 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Go ahead . �1 MR . SCHOPPE : He made reference to i 12 Aspen Ridge and how can that piece of property, 13 being that it ' s further west, be considered later 4 tonight . �5 That plan is -- that property, � 6 Aspen Ridge ' s property, is not contiguous to the 17 City currently, and it ' s not uncommon to have 18 negotiations and discussions with land owners �9 that are not contiguous with the corporate limits 2r0 of Yorkville . 1 Those discussions would be such �2 that if the project or if and when it does become 23 contiguous , then it would be annexed . 24 That ' s the typical type of Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 28 �I I 1 agreement that ' s worked out when properties are 2 not currently contiguous to the building -- or to I3 the City . 14 MR . GILMOUR : May I ask, once again, 5 does that mean that that project, for example , is 16 on hold until it is connected? 7 For example , if I understand 8 the sewer and water hook-up to Aspen Ridge from 19 Midwest Development progressing west on Fox Road, 10 do they just wait until Evergreen Farm decides 11 that puts everything on the back shelf? 12 MR . SCHOPPE : They wouldn ' t -- Aspen I 1,3 Ridge could not be developed in the City until 1'14 it ' s contiguous and annexed into the City . 15 Now, does that mean that it has 16 to wait for Evergreen Farms to annex and develop? 1' 7 Not necessarily . It could become contiguous �8 through some other route, but -- 19 MR . GILMOUR : I mean, could you -- I �0 guess it could be conceivable that you could run 21 the sewer and water across a piece of property �2 that isn ' t annexed, is that what you are saying? �3 MR . SCHOPPE : Well , it ' s physically 2�4 possible . Would the City run city water lines Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 29 1 across a piece of property out to Aspen Ridge 2 through property that is not annexed? 3 MAYOR PROCHASKA : I could answer 4 that -- 5 MR . SCHOPPE : Okay . 6 MAYOR PROCHASKA : -- and the answer 7 to that is yes . However, the City does not get 8 the easements , the City does not run the lines , 9 the City does not pay for the lines . That is all 10 at the expense of the developer . 11 If they can find a route that 12 meets the requirements and the specifications of 13 the City and they are willing to pay for it , the 14 City does not -- we don ' t run the services for 15 the developers , they have to run them themselves , 16 and, as Mike has said, they may get contiguous 17 from a different route , but that doesn ' t mean 18 that that ' s the route the water and sewer would 19 go, and if they were not able to get easement to 20 get utilities to their property, you ' re right, 21 they would have to sit and wait until that 22 happened . 23 MR. GILMOUR : Well , that actually I 24 guess was more informative to me at this point Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 30 1 than anything else , but the point I was trying to 2 illustrate is how some of the developments are 3 being actually developed in the pattern that they 4 have . 5 Another thing that concerns us 6 is it seems like we are -- for example, River ' s 7 Edge , the closest adjacent City subdivision, they 8 are R-2 , and it seems like whenever one of them 9 is designated as an R-2 , that becomes a benchmark 10 that is being used for petitioning for annexation 11 further down the line . 12 Well , if I am understanding the 13 general flow of the both County and City plan for 14 the aesthetic value of our city here , where is 15 the demarcation zone on some of these 16 developments ? 17 I think there is no shortage of 18 R-2 property available, it seems to be running 19 out of our ears , and I think it ' s actually 20 mutually beneficial to the builders . 21 I hate to make a joke out of 22 it, but if you build it , they will buy 23 apparently . There is just -- they can ' t get them 24 up fast enough, and I think there is a market for Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 31 1 it, a bigger -- 2 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Okay . I ' d like 3 to move this along, please . 4 MR . GILMOUR : Sorry . 5 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Do you have one 6 other comment? 7 MR . ALLEN : One other . 8 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Something we 9 haven ' t talked about yet? 10 MR . ALLEN : Yes . The developer . I 11 didn ' t get a chance . I forgot . The setback off 12 the road, okay, he said they were 50 feet , okay? 13 I know that we ' re I think right around 150 , your 14 house? Do you know how far it is off of Fox? 15 MR . INGEMUNSON : 50 foot is only the 16 buffer . The closest house we would have is 140 17 feet from the back of that house to the road . 18 MR . SCHILLINGER : Plus their -- plus 19 setback . 20 MR . INGEMUNSON : 140 feet is the 21 closest house to the road . That ' s not 50 feet . 22 MR . ALLEN : Here is looking down the 23 future . You already got houses set in Yorkville 24 that ' s 50 feet off the road at a corner turn, Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 32 1 okay? 2 If you look at the existing 3 restrictions they put out there, Silver Springs , 4 you cannot even see a house . They are 250 feet 5 off Fox Road . 6 That road will be four lanes . 7 You will see it in your lifetime ; at least I will 8 I think, and so we should plan . We should plan 9 for it now . 10 And I ' m just trying to show 11 you, you know, the existing -- you are looking 12 here, you look at Fox Glen . I mean, we need to 13 be backing off that road as much as we possibly 14 can . 15 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Okay . Any 16 further questioning then on Silver Fox? 17 MS . ALLEN : I just have one 18 question . 19 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Well , please 20 come up to the microphone and state your name . 21 WHEREUPON : 22 LINDA ALLEN, 23 having been first duly sworn, testified before 24 the Plan Commission as follows : Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 33 1 MS . ALLEN : My name is Linda Allen, 2 I live at 12 Fox Glen Circle , and earlier the 3 gentleman that was talking about the subdivision 4 said that he was not looking for any change in 5 the zoning for the house size or the lot size , 6 but aren ' t we asking for that? 7 Because right now the plans are 8 an acre, even though your City Plan isn ' t that 9 way, but the existing County plan is , so isn ' t 10 that a deviation? 11 MR . INGEMUNSON : We are asking for 12 zoning in the City . What I meant to say is we 13 are asking for a variation on the 12 , 000 square 14 foot minimum. That ' s clear . 15 MS . ALLEN : But if the lot size in 16 the County, and it ' s the County ' s right now, how 17 can we just switch it overnight and say let ' s go 18 down to -- 19 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : But they are 20 asking to be annexed to the City, that ' s -- 21 MS . ALLEN : So they fall under a 22 different plan? 23 MR . SCHILLINGER : No . It ' s County 24 ag right now . If they were going to the Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 34 1 County -- I may be speaking out of line , but if 2 they were going to the County and asking for 3 subdivision approval , it would be what, an acre 4 and an eighth minimum? 5 MAYOR PROCHASKA : They ' ve got a 6 different setup now, too, clustering or whatever, 7 but the answer to your question is they are 8 looking for City zoning, and what they are asking 9 for falls within the regulations of the City 10 zoning they are asking for . 11 MS . ALLEN : Okay . 12 MAYOR PROCHASKA : So it ' s not a 13 variation from the City zoning . 14 MS . ALLEN : Okay . Thank you . 15 MR . INGEMUNSON : Tom, I might also 16 add -- 17 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Gregg . 18 MR . INGEMUNSON : -- the average lot 19 size is 14 , 000 square feet, a third of an acre . 20 MR . ALLEN : What ' s the smallest one? 21 MR . INGEMUNSON : 12 , 000 . 22 MR . ALLEN : That ' s the smallest . 23 What ' s the largest? 24 MR . INGEMUNSON : 28 , 000 -- 23 , 000 Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 35 1 thousand? 23 , 000 is the biggest . 12 , 000 2 minimum. 3 MR . SCHILLINGER : Outside is 29 . 4 MS . LUCIETTO : We have a different 5 version . 6 MR . SCHILLINGER : Oh, I ' m sorry . 7 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Let ' s clarify . 8 The smallest is 12 , 000 , the largest is what , 9 Gregg? 10 MR . INGEMUNSON : 23 , 000 . 11 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : 23 , 000 . And the 12 average is? 13 MR . INGEMUNSON : 14 and change . 14 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : 14 , just to 15 clarify . Okay . Any other comments on this one? 16 (No Response ) 17 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Okay . If not , 18 then I ' m going to move along to item number two 19 on the agenda . PC 2005-03 , Aspen Ridge Estates , 20 LLC, petitioner, has filed an application with 21 the United City of Yorkville , Kendall County, 22 requesting annexation to the United City of 23 Yorkville and rezoning from Kendall County A-1 24 Agricultural to United City of Yorkville R-2 Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 36 1 One-Family Residence District . 2 The real property consists of 3 approximately 125 . 874 acres at 12024 Fox Road, 4 Kendall Township, Kendall County, Illinois . 5 WHEREUPON : 6 DAVID MEEK, 7 having been first duly sworn, testified before 8 the Plan Commission as follows : 9 MR . MEEK : Good evening, Chairman . 10 Good evening, Commissioners . My name is David 11 Meek . I am the attorney for Petitioner, Aspen 12 Ridge Estates . 13 To start off, first , this is a 14 public hearing, so I want to tell you we have 15 filed our affidavit and service of notice under 16 the zoning ordinance, and I do want to tender 17 receipts that were received as of today in my 18 office . 19 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Just for the 20 record, there has also been a petition received 21 from the neighbors on this . 22 MR . MEEK : And if I could ask for a 23 copy of that -- 24 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Sure . Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 37 1 MR . MEEK : Today or tomorrow . 2 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Sure . 3 MR . MEEK : You have summarized the 4 gist of our request , maybe I ' ll take purview and 5 stand over here . If the court reporter can hear 6 me, I do have a cold, so I can ' t tell how loud I 7 am. 8 We , too, have a project that is 9 on Fox Road . This time this one is at the 10 southwest corner of Fox and Pavilion . This was a 11 farm field; my client now owns the property . 12 They ' ve had it for about five months I suppose . 13 And we are looking also for R-2 14 zoning in the city, and understand that we are 15 going to be inline to come out here with respect 16 to annexation, and hopefully we will have a 17 couple different annexation corridors to get out 18 here . 19 But let me just talk a little 20 bit about what we are going to do tonight . We 21 are going to present the plan . We do have with 22 us Phil Stuepfert from SEC Planning . 23 The project we are presenting 24 to you -- and we have Pete Huinker, he is the Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 38 1 chief engineer on this project , and he will be 2 available to address concerns because I 3 anticipate there are a few that are similar to 4 what have been expressed prior to this . 5 We ' ve got here a design that 6 has a lot of character . It ' s got nice features ; 7 you can see, however, that from our discussions 8 with park board, there is a difference in this 9 project from what we had proposed when we gave 10 you the concept plan . 11 We now have a smaller park in 12 the center and, at the direction of the park 13 board, in terms of the land cash contributions , 14 we are proposing to actually put in a trail 15 system, install that trail along the tree-lined 16 pavilion and to cut across the south line to 17 connect to the Channel farm project, once it 18 comes in . 19 We have a lot of good traffic 20 movement , the traffic elements to this design 21 layout , and it is a project that really comes in 22 without any request for variances from the city ' s 23 ordinances for zoning, and we don ' t anticipate we 24 are even asking for any variances from the Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 39 1 subdivision control regulations . 2 The site is -- does have 3 some -- we are keeping some open spaces , about 12 4 acres of this creekbed and trees along here , we 5 are proposing to put in stormwater retention 6 facilities , which can handle all of the water on 7 this site . 8 We do anticipate that Fox Road 9 will be improved, it ' s -- the County as I 10 understand -- it ' s a County swale system I would 11 expect , but I can ' t -- I ' ve got to defer to Pete 12 on this , that were -- when it ' s going to be 13 constructed there may be the opportunity to do 14 curb and gutter as a county road out there , but 15 Pete can correct me if I am mistaken on that . 16 Pavilion, of course , would go 17 from being a township road, assuming this would 18 be the annexation direction, to being a city 19 road . 20 Again, we are coming in with 21 12 , 000 minimum square foot, we have an average 22 lot size I think it ' s of 15 , 000 square feet with 23 a maximum of 23 , 000 , 218 units , and we do feel 24 that this project is appropriate for this site , Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 40 1 and I think that I will ask -- actually before we 2 take questions I will have Phil Stuepfert come up 3 and talk about the plan and Pete Huinker can give 4 some comments on engineering . 5 WHEREUPON : 6 PHIL STUEPFERT, 7 having been first duly sworn, testified before 8 the Plan Commission as follows : 9 MR . STUEPFERT : Phil Stuepfert of 10 SEC Planning . I think what I want to focus on is 11 several things we heard tonight . We do have some 12 county subdivisions out here in these locations . 13 Per the new Comprehensive Plan 14 that ' s coming through that allows 1 . 75 units per 15 acre , it refers to the design guidelines in the 16 Comprehensive Plan, and we went through those and 17 addressed those . 18 To start off, there is actually 19 13 principles in your Comprehensive Plan that is 20 coming through, and so I ' m just going to point 21 out some of those things that we ' re going to do 22 to get the density that we are asking for, as 23 well as David just mentioned the R-2 district 24 allows 12 , 000 square feet lots , setback, all Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 41 1 those things that are mentioned that was R-2 2 zoning, but going back to the design guidelines , 3 I just want to point out some of those things 4 that we feel that we are accomplishing . 5 Preserving the character of the 6 area , well , this area down in here , all those 7 existing trees , there is a floodplain down 8 through there , there is existing drain tiles 9 through there . All this area, the corridor 10 through that area, we are obviously not touching 11 that for development in those areas . 12 Along Fox Road, I know one of 13 the concerns really in the City of Yorkville as a 14 whole is down that road, what does that look 15 like . 16 What some of these corridors 17 look like as you drive down through Yorkville -- 18 and we have thought about that . We ' ve addressed 19 that . That ' s why you see all of this detention 20 down along Fox Road . 21 We have a minimum of 50-foot 22 buffer and a 300 and 400-foot buffer off of Fox 23 Road, so as you drive down there you ' re going to 24 see the water along the road, so we have placed Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 42 1 that in that location for that reason . 2 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : We ' ve got 3 individual maps . 4 MR . STUEPFERT : So some of this 5 buffering we ' ve done along here . Even down here 6 in the area where we do have three or four lots 7 that abut Fox Road, we ' ve actually already looked 8 at it and made a revision to that area where we 9 have taken those two lots , Lots 5 and 6 , we 10 actually have removed those in those areas , so we 11 really only have three lots that are directly 12 backing on Fox Road, so we feel like we have 13 achieved that as a principle . 14 Now, the east side of the 15 plain, we are going to develop in the floodplain 16 anyway; however, that is a wide corridor down 17 there , which we are preserving, and that borders 18 the existing county subdivision on the side of 19 the road . 20 You will see also down in the 21 southeast corner that we have provided extra deep 22 lots . They are actually twice as deep as you 23 what you would typically do in R-2 zoning, which 24 is directly across from the county subdivision as Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 43 1 well , so the separation between buildings is 2 quite a bit . 3 Another principle is we are 4 both connected between land uses , vehicular and 5 trails ; that ' s one of the reasons we are tying 6 this trail -- originally had it going through the 7 park and it ' s been discussed, there is a trail 8 corridor down through there . 9 Provide transition between land 10 uses , I mentioned a little bit about that . We 11 also had this county subdivision down in here 12 where we only had two lots abutting there and we 13 had open space in this area . 14 These are two of our largest 15 lots in the subdivision abutting there , so we 16 have thought about how to address that . 17 Some of the things about 18 incorporating some of the other features , I 19 talked about this down here and we are preserving 20 all those areas down there as well . 21 Principle five is provide a 22 sense of architectural interest . Our client is 23 in agreement with the standards that you are 24 drafting and coming through with . We have no Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 44 1 problem abiding by the new covenants that are of 2 such interest . 3 Enhanced pedestrian experience , 4 we have talked about that . View corridors , 5 that ' s why we ' ve structured all this when you 6 come into our site , we have put retention in our 7 entry, and as you come up to the center of our 8 development, we have placed a park and so 9 everywhere you go you are seeing lakes and things 10 like that . 11 Another principle of our plan 12 is to design your detention areas so they are 13 aesthetically pleasing . We were looking at doing 14 wet ponds . Pete can talk to this better . 15 Wet ponds all in this area, 16 which are going to look a lot better than a dry 17 pond in that area, so that ' s how we are going to 18 handle that one . 19 New landscape treatments along 20 here , all through the area, we are actually 21 probably going to enhance the entire area through 22 here and be at least minimum standards , if not 23 above, in terms of landscaping and things like 24 that . Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 45 1 The last one, we barely touched 2 on enhancing site experience , development, site 3 entrances , clean, we will do that at later 4 stages , that ' s not appropriate at this time, and 5 a cohesive signage program. 6 So those are all items you have 7 in your new Comprehensive Plan in order to have 8 R-2 zoning in this area, and so we have thought 9 about and addressed -- and the plan addresses 10 those items in your new Comprehensive Plan, and I 11 feel that our client and our team has even went 12 above and beyond that in areas where we ' ve shown 13 lot sizes up to 20 , 000 and 30 , 000 square feet 14 adjacent to other subdivisions that are abutting . 15 Those could be 12 , 000 square 16 foot lots , but we have thought about that, said 17 let ' s put our large lots down in those areas . 18 So I think that sums up most of 19 the items that -- those are some of the things 20 where it ' s not like we haven ' t thought about 21 those items . 22 We went through the Comp Plan 23 and addressed -- came up with a plan that we feel 24 is in harmony with this Comprehensive Plan . Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 46 1 MR . MEEK : I ' d like to ask Pete 2 Huinker to come up . 3 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : I want it make 4 it very brief, though . 5 MR . MEEK : Pete , I ' d like you to 6 talk just very briefly about dissipating traffic 7 concerns out there because that ' s an issue of the 8 residents , and possibly stormwater detention and 9 dealing with that and the railroad issue that 10 came up earlier on the other project . That ' s 11 another concern with this project . 12 MR . HUINKER : Obviously this is just 13 a concept plan at this time and we will 14 incorporate all of these design considerations 15 once we go into the preliminary engineering phase 16 of the project . The County isn ' t going to want 17 curb and gutter . 18 MR . MEEK : Okay . 19 MR . HUINKER : It ' s designated 20 already an open ditch drainage system. 21 MR . MEEK : Okay . 22 MR . HUINKER : The Fox Road entrance 23 is right in, left turn out . Secondary access off 24 Pavilion have a right and left-turn lane . Once Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 47 1 we get into those specifics in engineering, we 2 look at those detailed plans once we get to that 3 stage . 4 With the City we also created a 5 roadway network that provides a future 6 connection -- actually two future connections to 7 the south also, so that we will provide a network 8 of roadways that will interconnect to any future 9 subdivisions . 10 Essentially what we have for 11 our -- for the detention is for -- you can 12 address that more once we go forward with 13 preliminary engineering, but essentially we are 14 honoring the existing variance patterns and we 15 will be looking at these specific design 16 considerations and limitations in the downstream 17 facility . 18 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Okay . 19 Gentlemen, thank you . I am assuming many of the 20 same concerns regarding traffic . 21 Is there a little different 22 situation with water here or not? Maybe call on 23 one or both of you . 24 MR . ALLEN : Yes . The water is still Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 48 1 the issue here and it ' s just going to keep adding 2 to it, and I have one thing I would like for you 3 to read for the record out of the Illinois State 4 law . This chapter right here . It ' s highlighted 5 from here , to the next page about real estate and 6 railways . 7 MR . WHITEHOUSE : You want me to read 8 that into the record? 9 MR . ALLEN : Sure , please . Because 10 you are the one that said that that railway -- I 11 just want to clarify that chapter . 12 MR . MEEK : Would you mind telling us 13 what the source is? 14 MR . WHITEHOUSE : This is a 15 publication -- 16 MAYOR PROCHASKA : He is telling you 17 what it is . 18 MR . WHITEHOUSE : This is a 19 publication entitled Illinois Drainage Law that 20 is published by the College of Agricultural 21 Consumer and Environmental Sciences, University 22 of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, circular 1355 , 23 a recap of all , you know, case law . I believe 24 this was published in December of 1977 . I Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 49 1 believe -- David, you are probably familiar with 2 this . 3 The chapter here , part one, 4 Illinois Rules of Drainage, titled Law of Natural 5 Drainage, and this subparagraph here titled a 6 land owner must receive surface water flowing 7 naturally from higher ground . 8 One of the most important 9 principles of Illinois drainage law is that 10 owners of lower ground, known as the servient 11 tenant , are bound to receive surface water that 12 naturally flows onto it from higher ground, known 13 as the dominant tenant . 14 This rule means that owners of 15 farms that are lower than adjoining farms must 16 take the water that flows through natural 17 depressions onto their land; likewise , unless the 18 city has adopted a system of artificial drainage , 19 owners of lots that are lower than adjoining lots 20 can receive water coming from higher lots . 21 It also means that a railroad 22 or a highway embankment must be built of 23 sufficient capacity and at an appropriate 24 location to accommodate water that would Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 50 1 naturally flow across the right-of-way in a state 2 of nature . 3 Okay . Now, you are talking -- 4 What this is talking about is that if we build a 5 new highway or somebody builds a new road, they 6 have to size that culvert so that all of the 7 water passes through . 8 This is a culvert, as you 9 stated earlier, that was constructed about a 10 hundred years ago, okay? 11 MR . ALLEN : You are exactly right . 12 I wanted that to come in to take -- We the people 13 here are making a decision on adding things now, 14 okay? That railroad track was built at the turn 15 of the century, I am not disputing that , and it ' s 16 not adequate . 17 At the time it was built , it 18 was adequate , and what little bit of development 19 we have out there has already caused a problem, 20 and the more we build, the more problem we are 21 going to have . Thank you . 22 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Okay . So much 23 for traffic and so much for water . Is there 24 another concern now, something we haven ' t talked Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 51 1 about yet? Because it ' s 8 o ' clock; I want to 2 move this along . Okay . Anything else on PC 3 2005-03 ? 4 Lady over here, please . 5 MR . SCHOPPE : Tom, while she is 6 coming up, I want to add one point to clarify, as 7 we mentioned on the previous item, this item is 8 before us tonight for annexation and rezoning . 9 They are not asking for this plan to be approved 10 tonight . 11 WHEREUPON : 12 BRENDA CUTSINGER, 13 having been first duly sworn, testified before 14 the Plan Commission as follows : 15 MS . CUTSINGER : Brenda Cutsinger, 16 6672 Pavilion Road . That one driveway looks like 17 it ' s right in my front yard . These are just 18 points that the county should consider when they 19 are doing this , looking at this plan : The 20 density, the zoning, the intensiveness of use , 21 the restrictions on the land, the floodplain 22 drainage, berms , retention, detention, 23 enforcement of subdivision regulations , 24 improvements required, be it road, be it water, Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 52 1 impact fees , subdivision bonds , performance 2 bonds , letters of credit , recapture ordinances , 3 road improvement fees , land use restrictions , 4 maintenance of common areas , annexation 5 agreement , engineering approval , feedback from 6 the taxing bodies , fire , police , schools . Thank 7 you . 8 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Thank you . 9 Anybody else on this? 10 (No Response ) 11 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Okay . We are 12 going to move on to Item number PC 2005-02 , 13 Montalbano Homes and Conifer Group, LLC, 14 petitioners , have filed an application with the 15 United City of Yorkville , Kendall County, 16 Illinois , requesting annexation to the United 17 City of Yorkville and rezoning from Kendall 18 County A-1 Agricultural to United City of 19 Yorkville R-2 One-Family Residence District . 20 The real property consists of 21 approximately 155 . 825 acres at the southeast 22 corner of Ament and Penman Roads , Kendall 23 Township, Kendall County, Illinois . 24 And who is speaking on behalf Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 53 1 of petitioner? 2 WHEREUPON : 3 MICHAEL McGURN, 4 having been first duly sworn, testified before 5 the Plan Commission as follows : 6 MR . McGURN : For the record, my name 7 is Michael McGurn, M-c, capital G-U-R-N . I am 8 general counsel for the petitioner, and I do have 9 the affidavit of service that I will tender to 10 the surrounding property owners . 11 With me here tonight is Andy 12 Fitz , F-I-T-Z . He works in our land acquisition 13 department and oversees the preparation of the 14 land plan . 15 We intend to have only one 16 exhibit and that , for purposes of the record, is 17 the concept plan, it ' s by Glyman, and it is dated 18 January 10 , 2005 . 19 Our company has worked with 20 Staff to bring this along and, in fact , filed the 21 petition on January 10 , and I will defer most of 22 the concepts and the planning to Mr . Fitz and 23 he ' ll answer any other concerns that might come 24 up during the process . Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 54 1 We are just here for the 2 annexation and rezoning hearing, and we have been 3 working with Staff and will be submitting our 4 other papers next week . Thank you . 5 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Okay . 6 WHEREUPON : 7 ANDY FITZ , 8 having been first duly sworn, testified before 9 the Plan Commission as follows : 10 MR . FITZ : I ' ll just spend a few 11 minutes . As Mike, both Mikes ' , had stated, 12 although we are just here for the annexation and 13 zoning, I ' m just going to touch real briefly on 14 the concept plan . 15 I ' ve been before this 16 Commission as well as the park board and City 17 Council with our initial concept plan . 18 It ' s been revised since in 19 light of comments that we have received, the most 20 major of which was preserving the swale tributary 21 that bisects the property . 22 The City Council had informed 23 us at the meetings some of the comments , we ' d 24 like to see that preserved, and in exchange for Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 55 1 preserving that , we may be amenable to allowing 2 some slightly smaller lots along that open green 3 area, so what this plan envisions is just that . 4 Just the lots that apply to the 5 open area are 10 , 000 something, 90 percent of the 6 lots are 12 , 000 . Some of the other things that 7 we did, we initially had a park that ran from the 8 northwest to the southeast, a ten-acre park . 9 The park board informed us that 10 they would rather have six acres and they ' d 11 rather have it adjacent to the detention, so -- 12 and also in conversations that Staff had with the 13 school district , they decided they wanted a 14 four-acre parcel adjacent to the property to the 15 east where it will probably get the majority of 16 their donation from, so I accommodated all that 17 in the southeast portion . 18 We preserved the creek and show 19 a trail system along it . We have added 20 additional road stubs to the south and east and 21 limited our number of stubs to Penman Road . 22 But essentially our plan 23 preserves what the previous plan incorporated, 24 which was buffers along Ament . We have increased Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 56 1 those . Before there were twenty; we have 2 increased those to 40 along Ament and Penman . 3 In a nutshell , that ' s the basic 4 plans . I ' d be happy to answer any questions that 5 you may have or field any questions from the 6 audience . 7 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Okay . Is there 8 any -- is there any questions or concerns from 9 the audience from this ? Because we will come 10 back and talk about this as a group . Yes , ma ' am. 11 WHEREUPON : 12 MELISSA BARNHART , 13 having been first duly sworn, testified before 14 the Plan Commission as follows : 15 MS . BARNHART : Hi , Tom. 16 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Hi . 17 MS . BARNHART : Melissa Barnhart on 18 behalf of some of the land owners . First of all , 19 first question, you do have not have contiguity; 20 is that correct? 21 MR . FITZ : That ' s correct . 22 MS . BARNHART : Secondly, and maybe 23 this is a comment, I represent several land 24 owners who are within 500 feet of the proposed Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 57 1 project who have not received any written notice 2 of the hearing, and the reason we are here 3 tonight is because we read the Kendall County 4 Record and it was published in the record, so I 5 do have some concerns about that . I would like 6 that to be remedied as a matter of procedure . 7 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Let ' s address 8 that . Do you have an answer to that? 9 MR . FITZ : We got the list of 10 property owners within 500 feet from the Kendall 11 County Assessor, and we have all our certified 12 mail receipts , as well as the letters that were 13 returned from the addresses that the assessor 14 has , so all of those are a part of the public 15 record . 16 MS . BARNHART : I have several of 17 my -- the land owners here today that do live 18 within 500 feet , they live within 75 feet, and 19 have not received anything . 20 MR. FITZ : The application is in the 21 back, but the list is towards the front . 22 MS . BARNHART : I can tell you right 23 now that the addresses that you have used here 24 are not addresses where any of these people live . Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 58 1 MR . FITZ : Those are from the Tax 2 Assessor ' s records , that ' s what we are required 3 to use . 4 MS . BARNHART : Well , they are 5 incorrect . 6 MR . FITZ : Well , that ' s where the 7 tax bills are supposedly sent . 8 MS . BARNHART : No, they aren ' t . 9 MR . McGURN : Excuse me . May I 10 address that? May I address that point? 11 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Well , go ahead . 12 MR . McGURN : Could you identify for 13 the record who your clients are? 14 MS . BARNHART : Absolutely . Coopers 15 and Richards . 16 MR . McGURN : So you are appearing 17 here tonight -- 18 MS . BARNHART : Yes . 19 MR . McGURN : -- on their behalf? 20 MS . BARNHART : Yes , I am. 21 MR . McGURN : I submit that that ' s -- 22 that Cooper is on there . I think there is three 23 returned and it ' s marked vacant by the U . S . Post 24 Office . Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 59 1 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : I believe 2 Melissa ' s comment was that they learned about it 3 through reading the paper . I ' m not going to 4 debate the point . I think that was covered . 5 I think we are just going to 6 continue with the public hearing here and, 7 Melissa, if you could maybe take a couple minutes 8 even to look and see and submit some things that 9 are incorrect and then we can -- because we will 10 come back to this after all these public 11 hearings -- 12 MS . BARNHART : Sure . 13 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : -- but we will 14 let the public hearing proceed . 15 Is there any other comments on 16 this , on this petition? 17 (No Response ) 18 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Hearing none 19 then, I ' m going to move on the agenda , PC -- Item 20 number four on the agenda, PC 2005-04 , Don and 21 Carol Hamman and Five H, LLC, petitioners , have 22 filed an application with the United City of 23 Yorkville , Kendall County, Illinois, requesting 24 annexation to the United City of Yorkville and Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 60 1 rezoning from Kendall County A-1 Agricultural to 2 the United City of Yorkville M-2 General 3 Manufacturing District and for all special uses 4 permitted in the M-2 District subject to the site 5 plan approval . 6 The real property consists of 7 approximately 326 . 785 acres from Eldamain to 8 Corneils to Beecher to Faxon Road, Kendall 9 Township, Kendall County, Illinois . 10 WHEREUPON : 11 JOHN DUGGAN, 12 having been first duly sworn, testified before 13 the Plan Commission as follows : 14 MR . DUGGAN : My name is John Duggan 15 on behalf of Don and Carol Hamman and Five H, 16 LLC . Don and Carol Hamman are the majority 17 owners of the property . The family partnership 18 are Don and Carol Hamman and their three sons . 19 I ' d like to give you all an 20 additional exhibit which we had prepared today 21 with some additional details on the -- additional 22 details on the potential project . 23 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : And is this a 24 copy that you have on the board? Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 61 1 MR . DUGGAN : It is . It is , and it 2 has some additional details for the potential 3 road system and one of the uses that we 4 contemplate . 5 As you can see, this is a large 6 property on the far north end of the city . It is 7 in the Comprehensive Plan as industrial and 8 office research . 9 This particular property is 10 about -- is part of a property that Commonwealth 11 Edison owns that ' s approximately a square mile , 12 and it is the surplus land surrounding the 13 Commonwealth Edison substation off of Eldamain, 14 Faxon and Corneils Road, west of Beecher Road . 15 The property is the second type 16 of industrial part of this type that the Hammans 17 have developed . Their other Lincoln Prairie 18 project is in the Will County portion of Aurora, 19 Illinois . 20 We are contemplating an M-2 21 use , which we feel is within the contemplation of 22 the Comprehensive Plan . This type of use is we 23 feel ideal for this location . 24 It already has an industrial Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 62 1 character with the Commonwealth Edison substation 2 and Menard ' s distribution center to the west in 3 the City of Plano . 4 The property is I think ideal 5 for that use . It ' s got excellent roads . It is 6 not in the vicinity of any other area that we 7 feel it would be incompatible with . It complies 8 with the Comprehensive Plan . 9 This particular type of use we 10 think is essential to the development of the City 11 for both employment and tax base . We think it 12 would be an asset to the City and we are very 13 appreciative of some of the references for use on 14 the project that the City and the Economic 15 Development Commission has recommended to us . 16 One of the particular uses that 17 we are contemplating is a ready mix plant , and 18 we ' ve shown a potential site plan for that and a 19 location for it . 20 We also have had extensive 21 discussions with other types of uses that would 22 be compatible with the community and we feel that 23 any additional controls or protections that the 24 City would like with respect to this property Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 63 1 could be properly addressed and protected within 2 the contemplation of the annexation plan, so we 3 are asking for annexation and M-2 General 4 Manufacturing District zoning with special uses 5 as permitted by your zoning ordinance . 6 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Okay . 7 MR . DUGGAN : Thank you . 8 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Questions or 9 concerns from the audience? Lady over here , 10 please . 11 WHEREUPON : 12 SUE HANSON, 13 having been first duly sworn, testified before 14 the Plan Commission as follows : 15 MS . HANSON : My name is Sue Hanson 16 and I live at the corner of Faxon and Eldamain 17 Road, right across from the property . 18 I have several questions 19 concerning the property . I was wondering is it 20 now contiguous to the city or would this be like 21 a pre-annexation type of agreement? 22 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Mike , do you 23 know, is it contiguous? 24 MR . SCHOPPE : There is -- we have Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 64 1 the Rosen Lincoln property that lies on the east 2 side of Beecher that is contiguous -- that is in 3 the city, and then immediately west of that is 4 the Commonwealth Edison property, which is 5 adjacent to the property that we are talking 6 about . 7 In discussion, the annexation 8 can take place -- the property currently isn ' t in 9 the City, but it could be annexed by the City 10 because it can jump across the Commonwealth 11 Edison property . 12 So it doesn ' t have to have 13 physical contiguity, it can annex across the 14 property . 15 MS . HANSON : Are there any 16 prospective manufacturers currently that have 17 brought any plans to the City? 18 MR . SCHOPPE : No . There is no 19 specific plans that have been brought for City 20 for review, no . 21 MS . HANSON : Does the City have an 22 ordinance about doing construction work on 23 industrial sites at night? 24 When the Menard ' s plant was Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 65 1 built , they operated twenty hours out of 24 hours 2 of the day, they brought in big lights , and I was 3 just wondering if the City had any type of an 4 ordinance against that or if they would limit the 5 hours of construction work being done . 6 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : I don ' t know . 7 MR . SCHOPPE : I am not familiar with 8 that either . I ' d have to research that , if those 9 standards do exist in the current ordinances . 10 MS . HANSON : Because, you know, 11 operating and bringing in big lights at night is 12 not conducive for the neighborhood . 13 And also, what traffic -- how 14 many traffic cuts or where would traffic cuts be 15 made on Eldamain Road? I believe -- Are those 16 going to be cuts where he ' s got the arrows? 17 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Are the roads on 18 that map over there through the property? 19 MS . HANSON : Not through the 20 property, no . 21 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : They are shown 22 one road -- 23 MR . SCHILLINGER : Right behind you . 24 MR . DUGGAN : We are contemplating -- Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 66 1 We feel the most appropriate place for a cut 2 would be directly opposite the Menard ' s 3 distribution center, so the traffic could be 4 controlled at that location on Eldamain Road, and 5 ultimately we also think that the northern parcel 6 should have a cut onto Eldamain Road . 7 MS . HANSON : Would there be a light 8 proposed possibly? 9 MR. DUGGAN : That would be direct -- 10 MS . HANSON : Across -- 11 MR . DUGGAN : If the City felt that 12 lights were warranted, we would certainly, you 13 know, cooperate in the construction of them. 14 MR . SCHILLINGER : Would that or 15 would that not take at that traffic study? 16 MS . HANSON : Well , currently, right 17 now, trucks do not think that they have to stop 18 on the Menard ' s property, so if you have traffic 19 going across the road, it would add to the 20 congestion of that . 21 MR . SCHILLINGER : That would be a -- 22 Did anybody call the sheriff? 23 MS . HANSON : Huh? 24 MR . SCHILLINGER : Call the sheriff? Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 67 1 MS . HANSON : Well , it was Plano up 2 until Christmas time or something like that . 3 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Okay . Thank 4 you . 5 MS . HANSON : Thank you . 6 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Any other 7 concerns , questions ? 8 (No response ) 9 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Okay . We will 10 move on then to the last public hearing, PC 11 2005-05 , Arthur Meinzer/CCM Marketing, 12 Incorporated, and Ronald Moyers and Sang Chu, 13 petitioners , have filed an application with the 14 United City of Yorkville, Kendall County, 15 Illinois , requesting annexation to the United 16 City of Yorkville, and rezoning from Kendall 17 County A-1 Agricultural to the United City of 18 Yorkville B-3 Service Business District . 19 The real property consists of 20 approximately five acres at 9211 West Route 126 , 21 Kendall Township, Kendall County, Illinois . 22 WHEREUPON : 23 NEIL GOLTERMANN, 24 having been first duly sworn, testified before Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 68 1 the Plan Commission as follows : 2 MR . GOLTERMANN : Good evening, 3 Chairman, Commissioners . My name is Neil 4 Goltermann . We don ' t have a concept plan to hand 5 out or as a real exhibit for you, simply for the 6 fact that during the negotiations on entering 7 into the contract with the owners , we became 8 aware that IDOT has some plans for Route 126 that 9 affect the nature of the use or how the applicant 10 would use this parcel . 11 A little bit of history if you 12 will , and it all comes anecdotal to us from the 13 owner through their attorney . 14 This property has a farm house 15 on it with a barn building and another 16 out-building, which are currently not in use, and 17 have not been in use for some three to five years 18 we ' re told . No real specifics . 19 Mr . Moyers ' father is the last 20 person to have lived on that property, and we ' re 21 told, again, it was maybe five years ago when he 22 moved out of there . 23 The current proposal is for 24 annexation and zoning to B-3 . Mr . Meinzer Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 69 1 intends on operating a landscape business there 2 by the name of Landscape Depot . He will describe 3 in more detail what he intends on doing with the 4 property . 5 He currently does operate a 6 business in Lombard, Illinois , that would be very 7 similar to what he does now . 8 Also, if I may, I ' m going to 9 point out what we were able to do to just 10 highlight the area that we are talking about , and 11 this is a blow-up of what we got yesterday when 12 Tony Graff kind of brokered a meeting with IDOT 13 for adjoining land owners to Route 71 and 14 Route 126 . 15 The current intersection 16 actually runs right here with the subject 17 property outlined in green, and then all this 18 orange you see is simply to highlight what IDOT ' s 19 current proposal is for a relocation of 20 Route 126 , and in this current proposal , what 21 that does is make the current frontage of this 22 property the rear part of the property with new 23 frontage to the north . 24 And that ' s why we can ' t tell Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 70 1 you exactly where we would like an access point , 2 where a building might go, because, again, 3 Mr . Meinzer will describe that his concept is a 4 10 , 000 square foot building, it would be a retail 5 building oriented towards the retail customer 6 that would include a design -- a landscape design 7 center . And this is about five acres in total . 8 He would have some outside storage , he would have 9 an outside display . 10 At the south end of this 11 property is the highest elevation of the 12 property; the lowest elevation being at the 13 northwest corner that ' s highlighted in pink, and 14 in considering this property, that ' s where he 15 would take care of drainage issues , which would 16 also tie in with his idea of creating a drainage 17 pond, you know, landscaping it , and making it a 18 display itself for customers coming in . 19 Part of, again, the problem 20 with that is the area outlined in pink is an area 21 that IDOT has kind of marked off as potential 22 right-of-way for them, although the engineers 23 that were here yesterday indicated that they 24 didn ' t have to have that property or that they Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 71 1 could work with ideas about detention and things 2 like that , because they even in their plan talked 3 about making -- The first plan we saw was simply, 4 you know, Route 126 reconfigured like this , and 5 then they added in this subsequent January, 105 6 concept , an access point off of 126 onto the old 7 Route 126 , because they said they thought it 8 would be convenient for the owners here, which is 9 again something they said that they would 10 negotiate with these owners about whether -- not 11 negotiate , but plan with the city and the owners 12 about whether it ' s feasible or viable to have 13 this , and then keep what would be old Route 126 14 open as a city road or something else , and so 15 those are all in flux, if you will . 16 We ' ve had some discussion with 17 City Staff, nothing for certain anyway, that if 18 the applicant was successful in his annexation 19 and zoning and in development, being able to open 20 for business certainly before IDOT makes this 21 reconfiguration with some sort of temporary 22 access building and whatnot with an eye towards 23 being able to switch that once the alignment is 24 completed, and that assumes that the realignment Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 72 1 goes through as planned . 2 They told us yesterday they 3 were in Phase I , which means that they yet have 4 to have another public hearing on this 5 apparently . 6 I think that ' s it . If 7 Mr . Meinzer will step up, he will give a little 8 bit of an analysis of the type of operation that 9 he currently runs and what he is thinking of for 10 this site . 11 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Okay . Due to 12 the time factor, I don ' t want to get into any 13 more engineering with IDOT . 14 I think we ' ve got the concept 15 of what ' s going to happen, so if you want to say 16 just a very few words about your operation, 17 that ' s fine . 18 WHEREUPON : 19 ARTHUR MEINZER, 20 having been first duly sworn, testified before 21 the Plan Commission as follows : 22 MR . MEINZER : Sure . We ' ve been in 23 business since 1992 as far as Landscape Depot 24 goes . This is a different kind of a concept . Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 73 1 We ' re going to have an 2 additional display added where people can walk 3 through it and they can see not only what a 4 hardscape would look like , but we want to put the 5 plants in the proper perspective, where they have 6 seasonal plants , explain what colors they would 7 have for different seasons , also what plants 8 would grow in sunny areas , shady areas , and we 9 have a concept where we put the design center, 10 where a customer can then go, bring a larger plot 11 of survey, and we would design it for them, and 12 basically that ' s the short . 13 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Full service, 14 right? 15 MR . MEINZER : Right . That answers 16 it all . Including we would supply landscapers 17 which are bonded and insured, so . . . 18 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Okay . I 19 appreciate that . Thank you . Okay . Is there 20 anybody in the audience that has any questions or 21 concerns? 22 (No Response ) 23 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Going once? 24 Going twice? Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 74 1 (No Response ) 2 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Hearing none, I 3 would entertain a motion to close the public 4 hearing . 5 MS . LUCIETTO : So moved . 6 MR . HOLDIMAN : Second . 7 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : It ' s been moved 8 and seconded then to close the public hearing . 9 Those in favor signify by saying aye . 10 (A Chorus of Ayes ) 11 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : Opposed? 12 (No response ) 13 CHAIRMAN LINDBLOM : The public 14 hearing is now closed . 15 (Which were all the 16 proceedings had in 17 the public hearings . ) 18 ---000--- 19 20 21 22 23 24 Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 75 1 STATE OF ILLINOIS ) ss : 2 COUNTY OF LASALLE ) 3 4 CHRISTINE M . VITOSH, being first duly 5 sworn, on oath says that she is a Certified 6 Shorthand Reporter doing business in the State of 7 Illinois ; 8 That she reported in shorthand the 9 proceedings had at the foregoing public hearing; 10 And that the foregoing is a true and 11 correct transcript of her shorthand notes so 12 taken as aforesaid and contains all the 13 proceedings had at the said public hearing . 14 IN WITNESS WHEREOF I ve hereunto set 15 my hand thiz /� of 16 2005 . 17 18 c 19 n 20 CHRISTINE M . TOSH, C . S . R . 21 CSR License No . 084 -002883 22 23 24 Depo Court Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983-0030 Yorkville Plan Commission Multi-Page TM $2,000 -better February 9, 2005 218(11 39:23 9:9 46:23 70:1 71:6,22 24:10,21 25:3 31:7,10,22 69:10 70:20,20 -$- 23,000[51 34:24 35:1,10 accommodate[11 49:24 32:17,22 33:1,1,15,21 areas[13] 6:20 14:3 22:1 $2,000[11 11:15 35:11 39:23 accommodated[11 34:11,14,20,22 47:24 48:9 22:4 41:11 42:10 43:20 $360,000[11 11:19 250[11 32:4 55:16 50:11 44:12 45:12,17 52:4 73:8 allowed[41 16:6,8,15 73:8 28,000[11 34:24 accomplishing[11 41:4 21:24 29[11 35:3 accumulates[11 16:23 arrows[1] 65:16 -&- 297[11 9:23 achieved[21 26:2 42:13 allowing[21 10:12 55:1 Arthur[21 67:11 72:19 &[1] 2:10 acquisition[1] 53:12 artificial[11 49:18 allows[2] 40:14,24 fi-3- acre[1o1 6:3 10:24 11:1 almost[11 13:16 Aspen[9] 26:20,23 27:12 -�- 16:8 18 23:10 33:8 34:3 along[1s1 6:18,24 11:7 27:16 28:8,12 29:1 35:19 3.7[1] 6:5 31:3 35:18 38:15 39:4 36:11 'OS(11 71:5 34:19 40:15 41:12,20,24 42:5 44:19 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61:14 abiding[1] 44:1 appropriate a 43:23 52:5 63:21 ro riate[51 24:14 64:2 200[11 13:16 agricultural[71 3:13 39:24 45:4 49:23 66:1 beginning 1 able[51 8:18 29:19 69:9 g g[ ] 3:19 17:9 35:24 48:20 52:18 2002[11 21:5 71:19,23 60:1 67:17 approval(31 34:3 52:5 behalf[51 2:12 52:24 2004-33[11 3:8 above[21 44:23 45:12 ahead[21 27:10 58:11 60:5 56:18 58:19 60:15 2005[s1 1:9 20:7 21:4 above-entitled[11 1:7 alignment[11 71:23 approved d[11 51:9 behind[21 26:21 65:23 53:18 75:16 architectural[11 43:22 benchmark[11 30:9 Absolutely[11 58:14 Allegiance[11 3:1 beneficial[11 30:20 2005-02[11 52:12 area[291 6:23 7:3 9:16 2005-03[21 35:19 51:3 abut[11 42:7 Allen[4o] 12:12,15,15 10:9,21 16:13 20:3 21:20 abutting[31 43:12,15 14:21 15:1,8,17 17:18 22:11 24:7,23 41:6,6,9,10 berms[11 51:22 2005-04[11 59:20 45:14 18:1,7,12 19:5,8,19,21 42:6,8 43:13 44:15,17920 better[51 5:6 14:1 17:8 2005-05[1] 67:11 access[91 7:10,12,20,22 20:5,11 21:3,8,12 23:20 44:2145:8 55:3,5 62:6 44:14,16 Depo Court Reporting Service Index Page 1 Naperville, Illinois (630) 983-0030 Yorkville Plan Commission Multi-Page TM between - December February 9, 2005 between[101 4:22 7:11 calls[11 23:18 35:22,24 37:14 39:18 concepts[1] 53:22 70:13 7:13,19 19:1 22:19 25:17 cannot[z1 15:22 32:4 41:13 47:4 49:18 52:15 concern[51 7:23 10:18 Corporate[11 27:19 43:1,4,9 capacity[31 18:19,20 52:17,18 54:16,22 59:22 15:7 46:11 50:24 correct[61 24:2 26:7 beyond[11 45:12 49:23 59:24 60:2 61:6 62:3,10 concerning[11 63:19 39:15 56:20,21 75:11 big[6] 12:3,4 13:5 21:20 ca p ital[11 53:7 62:12,14,24 63:20 64:3,9 concerns[131 5:17 9:12 corridor[31 41:9 42:16 65:2,11 64:9,17,19,21 65:3 66:11 Care[31 8:8 11:24 70:15 67:14,16,17 71:11,14,17 30:5 38:2 41:13 46:7 43:8 bigger[2] 12:17 31:1 47:20 53:23 56:8 57:5 corridors[31 37:17 41:16 Carol[41 59:21 60:15,16 city's[8] 13:23 23:17,22 biggest[3] 10:14 11:5 60:18 24:4 25:18,19 26:1 38:22 63:9 67:7 73:21 44:4 35:1 condition[11 15:24 carrying[11 19:15 CLARENCE[11 2:4 cost[z] 23:3,4 bills[1] 58:7 conducive[11 65:12 Council[z1 54:17,22 cars U] 9:19,21,23 10:1,2 Clarified[11 25:20 bisects[11 54:21 10:6 11:6 clarify[41 35:7,15 48:11 congestion[11 66:20 counsel[11 53:8 bit[71 12:17 37:20 43:2 cart[11 10:11 51:6 Conifer[11 52:13 county[391 3:11,13,17 43:10 50:18 68:11 72:8 case[1] 48:23 clean[11 45:3 connect[31 26:16,22 9:6 20:8,21,23 22:8 30:13 blend[11 26:3 38:17 33:9,16,23 34:1,2 35:21 cases[11 17:23 clear[11 33:14 blow-up[11 69:11 connected[21 28:6 43:4 35:23 36:4 39:9,10,14 cash[11 38:13 client[31 37:1143:22 40:12 42:18,24 43:11 Bluff[11 9:22 connecting[11 27:1 caused[11 50:19 45:11 g 46:16 51:18 52:15,18,23 board[41 6:8 26:20 38:8 center[61 38:12 44:7 62:2 clients[1] 58:13 connection[11 47:6 57:3,11 59:23 60:1,9 38:13 54:16 2:6 60:24 66:3 70:7 73:9 clogged[11 19:18 connections[11 47:6 61:18 67:14,17,21 75:2 bodies[11 73: century[2] 14:8 50:15 close[a1 7:21 14:15 74:3 consider[1] 51:18 County's[21 25:17 bonded[11 73:17 certain[2] 17:24 71:17 74:8 consideration[21 16:10 33:16 bonds[21 52:1,2 [3 closed[11 74:14 17:7 couple[41 4:8,9 37:17 certainly 1 10:17 66:12 book[41 20:7,10,24 21:5 71:20 Closest[31 30:7 31:16,21 Considerations[21 59:7 booklet[11 26:9 certified[21 57:11 75:5 clustering[11 34:6 46:14 47:16 course[z] 7:21 39:16 borders[1] 42:17 Cetera[1] 15:19 cohesive[11 45:5 considered[1] 27:13 Court[1] 37:5 bottom[2] 12:5 23:13 Chairman[691 2:2 3:2,7 Cold[11 37:6 considering[11 70:14 covenants[11 44:1 bought[11 22:22 4:6,11,17,23 5:2,6 7:13 College[11 48:20 consistent[1] 24:22 covered[1] 59:4 bound[11 49:11 7:17 8:2 11:12 12:9 15:11 consists[s] 3:15 36:2 created[1] 47:4 15:18 19:7 25:2,5 27:6,10 colors[11 73:6 52:20 60:6 67:19 box[11 25:24 31:2,5,8 32:15,19 33:19 coming[101 12:10 18:12 creating[11 70:16 brand[11 20:8 22:3 39:20 ] 12:10 8:124 construct[11 21:24 credit[11 52:2 34:17 35:7,11,14,17 36:9 constructed[z1 39:13 Brenda[21 51:12,15 36:19,24 37:2 42:2 46:3 49:20 51:6 70:18 creek[z] 7:1 55:18 BRIAN[11 2:6 47:18 50:22 52:8,11 54:5 comment[a1 15:11 31:6 50:9 creekbed[1] 39:4 56:7,16 57:7 58:11 59:1 56:23 59:2 construction[31 64:22 brief[11 46:4 65:5 66:13 crossed[11 25:16 briefl [31 25:20 46:6 59:13,18 60:23 63:6,8,22 comments[61 8:4 35:15 CSR[11 75:21 Y 65:6,17,21 67:3,6,9 68:3 40:4 54:19,23 59:15 consultant[11 23:17 54:13 72:11 73:13,18,23 74:2,7 Commission[221 1:14:4 Consumer[1] 48:21 cubic[1] 16:18 bring[21 53:20 73:10 74:11,13 cul-de-sac[3] 5:12,22 bringing[11 65:11 chance[11 31:11 724 8:2,12 9:3 12:14 20:6 contains[11 75:12 5:24 g g 25:10 32:24 36:8 40:8 Contemplate[1] 61:4 brokered[11 69:12 change U] 7:7 17:1,2 51:14 53:5 54:9,16 56:14 culvert[n] 15:21,24 BROMBEREK[11 2224 23:1 33:4 35:13 60:13 62:15 63:14 68:1 Contemplating[31 16:13 17:17 18:4,8,16,19 2:10 Channel[11 38:17 72:21 61:20 62:17 65:24 18:19 50:6,8 brow ht[31 64:17,19 65:2 chapter[41 20:19 48:4 Commissioners[2] contemplation[21 curb[21 39:14 46:17 g P buffer[41 6:18 31:16 48:11 49:3 36:10 68:3 61:21 63:2 Curious[21 25:21 26:15 contiguity[21 56:19 Current[71 23:23 65:9 Committee[11 20:6 41:22,22 character[4] 10:21 38:6 64:13 buffering 11 42:5 41:5 62:1 common[11 52:4 68:23 69:15,19,20,21 g contiguous[10] 27:16 customer[2] 70:5 73:10 buffers[11 55:24 CHARLES[11 2:3 Commonwealth[s1 27:19,23 28:2,14,17 29:16 build[31 30:22 50:4,20 check[11 12:20 61:10,13 62:1 64:4,10 63:20,23 64:2 customers[1] 70:18 builders[11 30:20 checkerboard[11 26:13 community[21 26:4 continue[1] 59:6 cut[3] 38:16 66:1,6 ll e 1 6222 building[61 28:2 68:15 Ch Y[ ] 9:22 contract[1] 68:7 cuts[31 65:14514,16 70:2,4,5 71:22 chief[11 38:1 Comp[11 45:22 contributions[11 38:13 Cutsinger[31 51:12,15 buildings[11 43:1 Chorus[11 74:10 company[21 14:19 53:19 control[1] 39:1 51:15 22 62 compatible[11 : builds[11 50:5 CHRISTINE[3] 1:8 comp controlled[11 66:4 built[s] 14:8 49:22 50:14 75:4,20 Completed[11 71:24 controls[11 62:23 -D_ 50:17 65:1 Christmas[11 67:2 complies[11 62:7 convenient[11 71:8 D-747605[1] 1:22 business[61 67:18 69:1 Chu[11 67:12 Comprehensive[151 conversations[1] 55:12 date[31 12:20 15:16,17 69:6 71:20 72:23 75:6 Circle[2] 12:16 33:2 23:18,23 24:3,4,13 25:17 dated[11 53:17 buy 11 30:22 40:13,16,19 45:7,10,24 Cooper[11 58:22 Y circular[11 48:22 61:7,22 62:8 cooperate[11 66:13 David[41 36:6510 40:23 city[72] 1:2,10 2:13 3:10 conceivable[11 28:20 Coopers[11 58:14 49:1 -C- 3:12,13 6:2 11:2,17 18:24 days[11 12:21 20:22,22 23:8,11,24 27:17 conceivably[11 10:1 copy[z1 36:23 60:24 C[11 2:9 dealing[11 46:9 28:3,13,14,24,24 29:7,8,9 Concept[121 4:19 38:10 Comeils[z1 60:8 61:14 C.S.R[2] 1:8 75:20 29:13,14 30:7,13,14 33:8 46:13 53:17 54:14,17 68:4 comer[81 5:13 6:5 31:24 debate[11 59:4 calculations[11 16:18 33:12,20 34:8,9,13 35:21 70:3 71:6 72:14,24 73:9 37:10 42:21 52:22 63:16 December[11 48:24 Depo Court Reporting Service Index Page 2 Naperville, Illinois (630) 983-0030 Yorkville Plan Commission Multi-Page TM decided- future February 9, 2005 decided[2] 18:18 55:13 66:2 ears[i] 30:19 28:10,16 57:18,18 decides[11 28:10 discharge[2] 16:7,16 easels[1] 4:9 everybody[3] 5:4,7 felt[1] 66:11 decision[2] 26:5 50:13 disconnect[1] 25:16 easement[i] 29:19 25:23 fence[2] 14:12,16 deck[11 14:13 discuss pi 8:3 easements[2] 19:3 29:8 everywhere[11 44:9 few[3] 38:3 54:10 72:16 deep[2] 42:21,22 discussed[2] 19:10 43:7 east[6] 2:10 3:16 42:14 exact[1] 18:15 field[s] 13:2,4 17:9 37:11 defer[21 39:11 53:21 discussion[21 64:7 55:15,20 64:1 exactly[31 18:2 50:11 56:5 definition[2] 23:14 71:16 Economic[11 62:14 70:1 Fifth[i] 2:10 25:20 discussions[4] 27:18 edge[4] 6:6,15 10:22 30:7 example[4] 26:17 28:5 g figure[z] 10:4 11:10 27:21 38:7 62:21 28:7 30:6 demarcation[i] 30:15 Edison[s] 61:11,13 62:1 filed[7] 3:9 35:20 36:15 dense[1] 11:2 display[3] 70:9,18 73:2 64:4,11 excellent[11 62:5 52:14 53:20 59:22 67:13 density[4] 10:20 22:7 displays[1] 12:10 effect[1] 26:13 exchange[1] 54:24 filter p] 10:1 40:22 51:20 disputing[1] 50:15 eighth[11 34:4 Excuse[3] 4:23 23:20 fine[2] 13:172:17 department[i] 53:13 dissipating[i] 46:6 either[i] 65:8 58:9 fire[i] 52:6 Depot[2] 69:2 72:23 distribution[2] 62:2 Eldamain[6] 60:7 61:13 exhibit[4] 4:7 53:16 first[zs] 3:8 4:3,19 8:11 depressions[11 49:17 60:20 68:5 66:3 63:16 65:15 66:4,6 8:16 9:2 11:11 12:13 Dervin[2] 12:12,15 district[ii] 3:14 24:16 elements[1] 38:20 exist[1] 65:9 15:22 20:14,19 25:9 32:23 describe[21 69:2 70:3 24:18 36:1 40:23 52:19 elevation[3] 13:17 existing[io] 15:24 24:13 36:7,13 40:7 51:13 53:4 55:13 60:3,4 63:4 67:18 70:11,12 24:13 32:2,11 33:9 41:7,8 54:8 56:13,18,19 60:12 descriptions[i] 26:2 42:18 47:14 63:13 67:24 71:3 72:20 ditch[i] 46:20 eliminate[i] 5:12 75:4 design[12] 17:2 38:5,20 doesn't[s] 16:23 23:1 expect[1] 39:11 40:15 41:2 44:12 46:14 eliminated[3] 5:14,22 expense[2] 23:6 29:10 Fitz[9] 53:12,22 54:7,10 47:15 70:6,6 73:9,11 24:4 29:17 64:12 523 p 56:21 57:9,20 58:1,6 dollars[11 23:3 embankment[i] 49:22 experience[2] 44:3 45:2 designated[z] 30:9 five[ii] 9:15,19 13:19 dominant[1] 49:13 explain[1] 73:6 46:19 emergency[3] 7:10,12 37:12 43:21 59:21 60:15 designed[61 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9:3 , developed[7] 10:10 downstream[61 16:1 engineers[ll 70:22 12:14 25:10 32:24 36:8 17:6 22:12,13 28:13 30:3 16:10,19 17:6 19:1 47:16 Fair[i] 19:5 40:8 51:14 53:5 54:9 61:17 enhance[t] 44:21 draft[2] 24:10,11 Enhanced[1] 44:3 fairly[2] 10:20 11:2 56:14 60:13 63:14 68:1 developer[3] 19:1 29:10 drafting 11 43:24 fall[11 33:21 72:21 31:10 g enhancing[11 45:2 drain[i] 41:8 entering i falls[i] 34:9 foot[7] 7:6 19:22 31:15 developers[i] 29:15 g[ ] 68:6 33:14 39:2145:16 70:4 drainage[14] 6:22 10:16 Enterprises[i] 15:21 familiar[2] 49:1 65:7 development[��] 3:9 rP footprint[1] 22:18 8:15 10:7,12 11:11 13:1,3 11:6 14:9 17:7 46:20 entertain[i] 74:3 family[1] 60:17 25:13 27:2 28:9 41:11 48:19 49:4,5,9,18 51:22 far[6] 26:5,13 27:1 31:14 Ford[i1 8:14 entire[z] 16:13 44:21 61:6 72:23 g g 44:8 45:2 50:18 62:10,15 70:15,16 fore oin [z] 75:9,10 drastically[11 23:1 entitled[11 48:19 fo of i 71:19 Y farm[6] 1:1026:1728:10 � [ ] 31:11 developments[7] 7:22 drive[4] 8:14 25:12 41:17 entrance[4] 7:9 21:16 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during[3] 17:24 53:24 Estates[2] 35:19 36:12 feedback[i] 52:5 front[2] 51:17 57:21 DINA[1] 2:8 68:6 et[1] 15:19 fees[2] 52:1,3 frontage[2] 69:21,23 direct[11 66:9 evening[4] 12:22 36:9 feet[is] 13:16 16:18 Full[1] 73:13 direction[2] 38:12 39:18 -E_ 36:10 68:2 24:19,20 31:12,17,20,21 fund[z] 11:17,19 E[4] 2:1,1,9,9 Evergreen[4] 9:22 26:17 direc gme 31:24 32:4 34:19 39:22 funnel[2] 12:3,4 tly[3] 42:11,24 40:24 45:13 56:24 57:10 1 future[4] 31:23 47:5,6,8 Depo Court Reporting Service Index Page 3 Naperville, Illinois (630) 983-0030 Yorkville Plan Commission Multi-Page TM G-U-R-N - manufacturers February 9, 2005 54:2 57:2 59:6,14,18 18:24 51:24 3:17 20:7,11 35:21,23 27:10 31:2,5,8 32:15,19 -G- 67:10 72:4 74:2,4,8,14 include[11 70:6 36:4,4 52:15,17,22,23 33:19 34:17 35:7,11,14 75:9,13 57:3,10 59:23 60:1,8,9 35:17 36:19,24 37:2 42:2 G-U-R-N[11 53:7 Including[11 73:16 67:14,16,21,21 46:3 47:18 50:22 52:8,11 hearings[z] 59:11 74:17 incompatible[1] 62:7 Game[11 1:10 p kind[sl 25:21 26:15 54:5 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11:10 install[11 38:15 hook-up[1] 28:8 largest[31 34:23 35:8 47:2 59:8 73:4 hopefully[2] 5:17 37:16 insured[1l 73:17 43:14 looked[21 22:11 42:7 green[3] 14:3 55:2 69:17 horse[11 10:11 LASALLE[11 75:2 Gregg[91 4:2,6,11,17 5:2 intend[11 53:15 looking[11] 21:13,13 hour[21 1:9 10:2 last[a] 9:10 45:1 67:10 25:18 31:22 32:11 33:4 8:16 11:13 34:17 35:9 intends[21 69:1,3 68:19 hours[4] 10:2 65:1,1,5 34:8 37:13 44:13 47:15 ground[31 49:7,10,12 intensiveness[1] 51:20 law[s] 48:4,19,23 49:4,9 51:19 group[2] 52:13 56:10 house[7, 14:14,14 3 :4 :5 interconnect[1] 47:8 Lawn[1] 10:23 looks[2] 7:3 51:16 31:16,17,21 32:4 33:5 grow[1] 73:8 68:14 interest[2] 43:22 44:2 lay[il 20:15 lots[231 7:5,11 11:18 guess[31 14:17 28:20 houses[il 31:23 intergovernmental[11 layout[21 13:24 38:21 21:20,21 22:9 23:11 40:24 29:24 Huh[11 66:23 20:18 learned[1l 59:2 42:6,9,9,11,22 43:12,15 guidelines[21 40:15 intersection[3] 9:17,24 45:16,17 49:19,19,20 55:2 41:2 Huinker[10] 8:22 9:1,4 69:15 least[31 22:16 32:7 44:22 55:4,6 9:5 37:24 40:3 46:2,12,19 leave[11 26:12 loud[11 37:6 gutter[21 39:14 46:17 46:22 invested[21 22:11,23 guys[21 4:20 20:23 hundred[2] 19:21 50:10 issue 191 10:17 21:19 22:6 left[21 9:8 46:23 low[31 10:20 21:23,24 22:7 25:16 26:24 46:7,9 left-turn[11 46:24 lower[31 49:10,15,19 -H_ -I- 48:1 less[1] 10:23 lowest[11 70:12 issues[1l 70:15 letters[2] 52:2 57:12 LUCIETTO[31 2:5 H[2] 59:21 60:15 idea[1] 70:16 item[6] 3:8 35:18 51:7,7 License[il 75:21 35:4 74:5 Hamman[al 59:21 60:15 ideal[2] 61:23 62:4 52:12 59:19 lies[11 64:1 lying[21 21:23 22:1 60:16,18 ideas[1] 71:1 items[41 45:6510519,21 Hammans[1] 61:16 16 lifetime[11 32:7 hand[31 3:4 68:4 : identify[2] 24:4 58:12 itself[11 70:18 light[3] 9:18 54:19 66:7 _M_ handle[131 8:18 9 5: IDOT[51 68:8 69:12 lights[31 65:2,11 66:12 70:21 71:20 72:13 _ IDOT,s[11 69:18 M[3] 1:8 75:4520 10:5,6,13 11:4,5,11 14:10 -J likewise[11 49:17 M-2[41 60:254 61:20 63:3 18:5 19:22 39:6 44:18 January[31 53:18,21 limit[1] 65:4 M-c[11 53:7 Hanson[131 63:12,15,15 Illinois[221 1:2,11 2:11 71:5 limitation[11 16:19 2:13 3:11,18 36:4 48:3,19 ma'am[i] 56:10 64:15,2165:10,19 66:7 48:22 49:4,9 52:16,23 John[51 2:12 15:13,20 limitations[11 47:16 mail[1] 57:12 66:10,16,23 67:1,5 60:11,14 59:23 60:9 61:19 67:15 limited[11 55:21 maintain[1] 7:2 happy[11 56:4 67:21 69:6 75:1,7 joke[1] 30:21 limiting z1 16:10,12 handscape[1l 73:4 illustrate[11 30:2 lump[11 64:10 g maintaining[11 52 harmony 11 45:24 JUSTIN[11 2:12 limits[1l 27:19 maintenance[11 52:4 Y immediately[11 64:3 Lincoln[2] 61:17 64:1 major[1] 54:20 hate[1] 30:21 impact[11 52:1 Linda[z1 32:22 33:1 hear[2] 23:20 37:5 _K_ majority[z1 55:15 60:16 important[1l 49:8 LINDBLOM[671 2:2 makes[11 71:20 heard[3l 6:22 25:15 improved[11 39:9 keep[31 7:3 48:171:13 3:2,7 4:6,11917,23 5:2,6 ans ement[z1 16:4 40:11 improvement[11 52:3 keeping[11 39:3 7:13,17 8:2 11:12 12:9 management hearing[151 3:20 36:14 improvements[21 Kendall[za] 3:11,13,17 15:11,18 19:7 25:2,5 27:6 manufacturers[1l Depo Court Reporting Service Index Page 4 Naperville, Illinois (630) 983-0030 Yorkville Plan Commission Multi-Page M Manufacturing -police February 9, 2005 64:16 money[z] 22:11 23:5 northeastern[i] 5:13 order[3] 27:3,4 45:7 permitted[21 60:4 63:5 Manufacturing[21 60:3 Montalbano pi 52:13 northern[11 66:5 ordinance[71 16:9 24:17 person[i] 68:20 63:4 months[11 37:12 northwest[zi 55:8 70:13 24:19 36:16 63:5 64:22 perspective[1] 73:5 ma [s1 13:15 23:8,9,12 65:4 P most[a1 17:13,23 18:17 notes[ii 75:11 Pete[1o] 8:20 9:1,4 37:24 65:18 45:18 49:8 53:21 54:19 nothing[11 71:17 ordinances[3i 38:23 39:11,15 40:3 44:14 46:1 maps[i] 42:3 66:1 notice[21 36:15 57:1 52:2 65:9 46:5 marked[2] 58:23 70:21 Mother[ii 13:10 oriented[ii 70:5 petition[01 3:21,22 9:24 10:3,9,24 14:15,18 market[i1 30:24 motion[21 3:2 74:3 now[301 5:20 7:3,1918 originally[zi 5:20 43:6 36:20 53:21 59:16 Marketing[11 67:11 move[61 31:3 35:18 51:2 16:2,3 17:9,10 18:6 24:9 out-building(1i 68:16 petitioner[61 3:9,24 matter[21 1:7 57:6 52:12 59:19 67:10 24:18 26:9 28:15 32:9 outlined[21 69:17 70:20 35:20 36:11 53:1,8 maximize pi 6:20 moved[si 5:14 22:10 33:7,16,24 34:6 37:11 outside[3i 35:3 70:8,9 petitioners[a] 5:15 68:22 74:5,7 38:11 42:14 50:3,13,24 52:14 59:21 67:13 maximum[i1 39:23 57:23 63:20 66:17 69:7 overnight[ii 33:17 movement[ii 38:20 oversees[i] 53:13 petitioning[z1 26:20 may[ia1 8:17,18 16:15 74:14 18:23 25:24 28:4 29:16 moving[1] 26:13 30:10 number[ai 35:18 52:12 owner[z] 49:6 68:13 phase[21 46:15 72:3 34:1 39:13 55:1 56:5 58:9 Moyers[i1 67:12 55:21 59:20 owners[161 5:16 27:18 58:10 69:8 Moyers'[i1 68:19 nutshell[il 56:3 49:10,14,19 53:10 56:18 Phil[ai 37:22 40:2,6,9 MAYOR[6) 21:10 29:3 MS[331 2:5,8 32:17 33:1 56:24 57:10,17 60:17 68:7 Physical[i] 64:13 29:6 34:5,12 48:16 33:15,21 34:11,14 35:4 _ 69:13 71:8,10,11 physically[11 28:23 McGurn[s] 53:3,6,7 51:15 56:15,17,22 57:16 -� owns[21 37:11 61:11 picked[11 20:12 58:9,12,16,19,21 57:22 58:4,8,14,18,20 o'clock[ii 51:1 picket pi 14:16 mean[91 11:8 19:15 59:12 63:15 64:15,21 Oaks[11 23:8 -P- picture[21 14:12 18:9 22:21 24:22 28:5,15,19 65:10,19 66:7,10,16,23 oath[ii 75:5 pictures[i] 12:17 29:17 32:12 67:1,5 74:5 P[3i 2:1,9,9 objectives[1] 26:2 Piece[3] 27:12 28:2129:1 means[31 49:14,2172:3 must(31 49:6,15,22 p.m[i] 1:9 meant[1] 33:12 mutually[ii 30:20 obviously[2i 41:10 46:12 packet[i] 4:20 pink[z1 70:13,20 Meek[iii 36:6,9,11,22 page[11 48:5 pipe[11 19:13 37:1,3 46:1,5,18,21 48:12 _N_ off[i6i 9:7 16:22 17:8 [11 59:3 place[3i 15:22 64:8 66:1 20:15 31:11,14,24 32:5 paper meeting[6] 1:1,6 4:13 N[2] 2:1,9 32:13 36:13 40:18 41:22 papers[i] 54:4 P laced[zi 41:24 44:8 20:13 21:4 69:12 naive[i] 10:10 46:23 61:13 70:21 71:6 parameters[11 17:2 plain[11 42:15 meetings[i] 54:23 name[121 8:7,13 12:15 office[3i 36:18 58:24 paraphrase[ii 25:24 plan[go] 1:1 4:4 5:10,11 meets[11 29:12 61:8 5:21 7:23 8:12,23 9:3,6 25:11 32:20 33:1 36:10 parcel[3i 55:14 66:5 Meinzer[61 68:24 70:3 53:6 60:14 63:15 68:3 old[31 7:15 71:6513 68:10 12:14 20:12 22:24 23:9 23:18,23,23 24: 72:7,19,22 73:15 69:2 once[9] 7:21 28:4 38:17 park[121 6:4,6,8 38:8,11 24:11,13,13 25:1100,,1717,911 8 Meinzer/CCM pi Naperville[11 2:11 46:15,24 47:2,12 71:23 38:12 43:7 44:8 54:16 25:19 26:1 27:15 30:13 67:11 73:23 55:7,8,9 natural[ai 7:3 22:19 49:4 32:8,8,24 33:8,9,22 36:8 Melissa[31 56:12,17 49:16 one[46] 4:19,21 5:18,20 parking[ii 16:21 37:21 38:10 40:3,8,13,16 59:7 5:21,23 7:9,10,16,18 40:19 44:11 45:7,9,10,22 naturally[3i 49:7,12 part[u1 4:14 17:3,10 Melissa's[11 59:2 50:1 11:14 13:18,24 18:9913 18:13 27:8 49:3 57:14 45:23,24 46:13 51:9,14 Menard's[ai 62:2 64:24 nature[3i 13:10 50:2 18:21 19:11,2120:14 61:10,16 69:22 70:19 51:19 53:5,14,17 54:9,14 66:2,18 68:9 21:12 23:24 25:15 26:1 54:17 55:3,22,23 56:14 26:11 30:8 31:5,7 32:17 particular[31 61:9 62:9 60:5,13 61:7,22 62:8,18 mentioned[ai 40:23 nauseam[ii 25:15 34:20 35:15 37:9 41:12 62:16 63:2,14 68:1,4 71:2,3,11 41:1 43:10 51:7 necessarily[11 28:17 43:5 44:18 45:1 47:23 partnership[i] 60:17 72:21 merge[i] 26:3 need[21 7:19 32:12 48:2,10 49:3,8 51:6,16 passes[21 3:2 50:7 planned[31 9:15 22:8 met[i] 5:15 negotiate[zi 71:10,11 53:15 61:3 62:16 65:22 past[1] 9:7 72:1 Michael(zi 53:3,7 negotiations[zi 27:18 one-acre[t1 22:8 pattern[i] 30:3 planning U] 20:6,15 microphone[21 8:7 68:6 One-Family[3i 3:14 patterns[11 47:14 23:17 26:3 37:22 40:10 neighborhood[ii 65:12 32:20 neighbors[zi 3:21 36:21 36:1 52:19 53:22 pavilion[si 37:10 38:16 Midwest[ai 3:9 26:15 one-inch[z] 12:19 16:22 39:16 46:24 51:16 Plano[zi 62:3 67:1 26:21 28:9 Neil[21 67:23 68:3 onto[ai 49:12,17 66:6 Pay[21 29:9,13 plans[7] 4:19 33:7 47:2 might[a1 3:23 34:15 71:6 56:4 64:17,19 68:8 g network[z1 47:5,7 paying(i1 11:15 53:23 70:2 open[io1 6:10,24 17:9 plant[3] 13:4 62:17 64:24 never[ii 18:5 39:3 43:13 46:20 55:2,5 PC[71 3:8 35:19 51:2 Mike[si 2:7 23:17 29:16 52:12 59:19,20 67:10 plants[3i 73:5,6,7 54:11 63:22 newpii 20:8 23:9 24:10 71:14,19 pleasing i 40:13 44:1,19 45:7,10 opening[z1 15:23 17:18 pedestrian[ii 44:3 P g[ 1 44:13 Mikes [ii 54:11 50:5,5 69:22 Penman[3] 52:22 55:21 Pledge[i] 3:1 mile[i1 61:11 operate[ii 69:5 newest[zi 21:9,11 operated[11 65:1 56:2 plot[ii 73:10 mind[21 25:16 48:12 next(31 25:6 48:5 54:4 operating[zi 65:11 69:1 people[71 4:24 6:22 9:11 plus[zi 31:18,18 minimum pol 7:6 24:17 16:1 50:12 57:24 73:2 point[is] 6:13 7:20 8:4 nice(i1 38:6 operation[zi 72:8,16 P 24:18,20 33:14 34:4 35:2 P per[io] 6:3 11:1,15,18 16:8 19:5 29:24 30:1 39:21 41:21 44:22 night[21 64:23 65:11 opportunity pi 39:13 12:7 16:8,18,18 40:13,14 40:20 41:3 51:6 58:10 minutes[z] 54:11 59:7 nobody[i1 10:10 Opposed[ii 74:11 percent[ti 55:5 59:4 69:9 70:1 71:6 mistaken[1] 39:15 none[21 59:18 74:2 opposite[il 66:2 performance[ii 52:1 points[1] 51:18 mix[ii 62:17 north[zi 61:6 69:23 orange[1] 69:18 period[il 18:22 police pi 52:6 Depo Court Reporting Service Index Page 5 Naperville, Illinois (630) 983-0030 Yorkville Plan Commission Multi-Page TM pond- services February 9, 2005 pond[31 21:22 44:17 63:19 64:1,4,5,8,11,14 rates[11 17:12 requirements[1] 29:12 roadways[1] 47:8 70:17 65:18,20 66:18 67:19 rather[21 55:10,11 research[21 61:8 65:8 Ronald[1] 67:12 ponds[21 44:14,15 68:14,20 69:4,17,22,22 read[41 26:1 48:3,7 57:3 Residence[31 3:14 36:1 Rosen[11 64:1 24 14 12, , portion[21 55:17 61:18 70:11, reading[11 59:3 52:19 route[141 13:15 17:15 proposal[31 68:23 69:19 possible[11 28:24 69:20 ready[11 62:17 residents[2] 10:19 46:8 28:18 29:11,17,18 67:20 possibly[31 32:13 46:8 real 9 3:15 36:2 48:5 Resources[11 20:12 68:8 69:13,14,20 71:4,7 66:8 proposed[11] 6:4,6 9:6 [ 1 71:13 23:24 25:13,22 26:14,19 52:20 54:13 60:6 67:19 respect[21 37:15 62:24 Post[11 58:23 38:9 56:24 66:8 68:5,18 respond[11 11:14 rule[11 49:14 post-development[1] proposing[21 38:14 39:5 realignment[11 71:24 response[8] 14:20 35:16 Rules[11 49:4 17:8 run[6] 18:22 28:20,24 prospective[1l 64:16 really[a1 22:15 38:21 52:10 59:17 67:8 73:22 potential[41 60:22 61:2 41:13 42:11 74:1,12 29:8,14,15 protected[11 63:1 rear[11 69:22 responsibility[5] 10:4 g[ 1 18:8 30:18 62:18 70:21 rennin z protections[11 62:23 potentially[11 16:1 reason[41 20:17 22:17 10:5 12:7 14:23 15:2 runs[2] 69:16 72:9 Prairie[11 61:17 provide[31 43:9,21 :21 42:157:2 restrictions[31 32:3 provided[z1 9:8 42:21 51:21 52:3 pre-annexation[11 reasons[11 43:5 -$- 63:21 provides[1] 47:5 restrictive[21 17:14 recap[11 48:23 S[21 2:1,9 preliminary[2] 46:15 public[161 3:19,20 15:12 18:17 47:13 recapture[11 52:2 36:14 57:14 59:6,10,14 P Sang[1] 67:12 sat[11 9:17 67:10 72:4 74:3,8,13,17 receipts[21 36:17 57:12 retail[z1 70:4,5 preparation[11 53:13 retaining[11 21:22 prepared[11 60:20 75:9,13 receive[3] 49:6,11,20 retention[3] 39:5 44:6 Saturday[21 21:3,7 publication[21 48:15 received[61 3:21 36:17 51:22 Saturday's[2] 20:13 present[21 10:1 37:21 48:19 36:20 54:19 57:1,19 presenting[11 37:23 ublished[31 48:20,24 recommendation[11 returned[z1 57:13 58:23 saw P saw[2] 5:20 71:3 preserved[21 54:24 57:4 22:17 review[1] 64:20 55:18 purposes[11 53:16 recommended[31 6:9 reviewing[1] 24:1 says[21 24:19 53 75:5 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27:11 23:11 28:12 24:12,24 1:5 q right[3s1 3:4 4:15,16 6:16 27:11 28:12,23 29:5 51:5 procedure[11 57:6 15:12 40:2 56:4,5,8 63:8 references[11 62:13 9:8 11:9 13:2 14:14 17:9 63:24 64:18 65:7 proceed[11 59:14 63:18 67:7 73:20 refers[1] 40:15 18:2,2,11,13 19:16 20:4 Sciences[11 48:21 proceedings[41 1:6 quite[11 43:2 reflect[11 5:11 20:19 21:20 23:19 25:23 se 111 12:7 74:16 75:9,13 _ reflected[11 6:10 26:9,21 29:20 31:13 33:7 process[11 53:24 33:16,24 46:23,24 48:4 seasonal[11 73:6 P -R regard[11 10:16 50:11 51:17 57:22 63:17 seasons[1] 73:7 processes[11 20:16 R[2] 2:1,9 regarding[21 3:22 47:20 65:23 66:16 69:16 73:14 PROCHASKA[6] R-1 [�] 22:16 24:7,11,14 g g SEC[d 37:22 18 61 regionalize[11 11:21 73:15 g second[3] 16:18 61:15 21:10 29:3,6 34:5,12 24:16,18 25:20 [21 50:1 right-of-way regulations[31 34:9 74:6 48:16 R-2[171 3:14 6:2 24:7,14 22 39:1 51:23 70 Secondary[1] 46:23 program[1] 45:5 24:19 25:24 26:10 30:8,9 River[11 13:16 30:18 35:24 37:13 40:23 release[31 17:12 18:4,18 ' 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43:22 7:10 11:9 14:24 15:5 request[2] 37:4 38:22 51:24 52:3 55:20,21 60:8 22:23 27:12,15,16 28:21 rained[11 12:21 requesting[61 3:11 9:7 61:3,14,14 63:17 65:15 sent[1] 58:7 29:1,2,20 30:18 36:2 rainfall[11 12:21 65:22 66:4,6,19 71:14 separation[1] 43:1 37:11 52:20 53:10 54:21 35:22 52:16 59:23 67:15 raise[11 3:4 roads[3] 52:22 62:5 service[41 36:15 53:9 55:14 57:10 60:6,17 61:6 required[31 18:24 51:24 65:17 67:18 73:13 61:9,10,15 62:4,24 63:17 ran[2] 16:22 55:7 58:2 rate[21 18:4918 roadway[11 47:5 services[2] 26:23 29:14 Depo Court Reporting Service Index Page 6 Naperville, Illinois (630) 983-0030 Yorkville Plan Commission Multi-Page M servient-vicinity February 9, 2005 servient[11 49:10 space[31 6:11,24 43:13 successful[1] 71:18 Thoughts[1] 20:11 twenty[21 56:1 65:1 set[2] 31:23 75:14 spaces[11 39:3 such[31 18:4 27:21 44:2 thousand[11 35:1 twice[21 42:22 73:24 setback[31 31:11,19 speaking[3] 3:23 34:1 Sue[2] 63:12,15 thousands[11 10:13 two[131 4:18,22 12:16,21 40:24 52:24 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southeastern[1] 6:5 Substation[21 61:13 thought[61 41:18 43:16 46:23 50:14 viable[1] 71:12 southwest[1] 37:10 62:1 45:8,16,20 71:7 turned[11 14:2 vicinity[11 62:6 Depo Court Reporting Service Index Page 7 Naperville, Illinois (630) 983-0030 Yorkville Plan Commission Multi-Page`M View- zoning February 9, 2005 View[i1 44:4 Yorkville[271 1:2,10 VITOSH[3] 1:8 75:4,20 2:13 3:10,12,14 6:2 10:6 11:17,20,20 27:20 31:23 35:21,23,24 41:13,17 -w- 52:15,17,19 59:23,24 60:2 wait[3] 28:10,16 29:21 67:14,16,18 walk[1] 73:2 Yorkville's[i] 10:5 walk-out[i1 14:17 warranted[11 66:12 _Z_ water[36] 12:4 13:6,8,13 zone[11 30:15 14:15 15:18 16:7,20 17:20 zoning[251 15:15 24:7 17:21 18:12,22 19:2,8,15 24:14,16,17,19 25:24 26:5 19:16 21:19 22:2,6 23:5 33:5,12 34:8,10,13 36:16 28:8,21,24 29:18 39:6 37:14 38:23 41:2 42:23 41:24 47:22,24 49:6,11 45:8 51:20 54:13 63:4,5 49:16,20,24 50:7,23 51:24 68:24 71:19 watershed[i1 16:13 week[1] 54:4 weeks[i1 12:16 west[s1 10:22 19:22 27:13 28:9 61:14 62:2 64:3 67:20 western[3] 6:6,14 7:1 wet[21 44:14,15 whatnot[i1 71:22 WHEREOF[11 75:14 whichever[i1 18:21 White[21 14:12 23:8 Whitehouse[14] 15:6 15:10,20,20 17:22 18:3 18:11,15 19:17,20 20:4 48:7,14,18 whole[5] 13:15 18:14 20:3,6 41:14 wide[11 42:16 widens[i1 21:20 Willing[11 29:13 wish[11 4:7 within[71 34:9 56:24 57:10,18,18 61:21 63:1 without[21 25:14 38:22 WITNESS[1] 75:14 Witnesses[11 3:6 wonder[11 26:9 wondering[21 63:19 65:3 words[i1 72:16 worked[21 28:1 53:19 works[1] 53:12 written[1] 57:1 wrong[1] 26:7 WYETH[21 2:10,12 _Y_ yard[31 14:16 19:3 51:17 yards[1] 19:21 years[31 50:10 68:17,21 yesterday[3] 69:11 70:23 72:2 yet[61 12:7 26:20,20 31:9 51:172:3 Depo Court Reporting Service Index Page 8 Naperville, Illinois (630) 983-0030 lei si ►� �► � Cr y\ c� L