Plan Commission Minutes 2004 04-14-04 Page 1 of 10 APPROVED BY THE
COMMITTEEWAT
UNITED CITY OF YORKVILLE
PLAN COMMISSION MEETING
YORKVILLE CITY HALL COUNCIL CHAMBERS
WEDNESDAY, APRIL 14, 2004
Chairman Tom Lindblom called the meeting to order at 7 p.m.
ROLL CALL
Members present: Kerry Green, Clarence Holdiman, Anne Lucietto, Bill Davis, Sandra
Adams, Brian Schillinger, Jack Jones, Michael Crouch, Andrew Kubala and Tom
Lindblom.
A quorum was established.
VISITORS
Mayor Art Prochaska; City Administrator Tony Graff, Kelly Kramer, from the city
attorney's office; City Planner Mike Schoppe; Lynn Dubajic from the Yorkville
Economic Development Corporation; John Whitehouse,Engineering Enterprises, Inc.;
Jeff Hyman; Lynn Whitman; Veronica Straatman; Brian Urban; Richard Scheffrahn;
Matt Fiascone; Gary Weber; Drew Daniels; Stephen Yas; Michael Avfderheide;Dean
Fisher; Lynn Burks; Dave Durkith; Dr. Thomas Engler, Yorkville School District
superintendent; John Phillipchuck; Stanford Stein; Brent Lewis; Chris Lannert; and Dan
Waitt.
MINUTES
Minutes from the March 10, 2004 meeting were approved.
PRESENTATION
School Site Study
City Planner Mike Schoppe gave a presentation on the school site study which addresses
where schools should be placed as development continues. Schoppe said the study was
conducted to be consistent with other long-range planning practices in the city. Once
approved,the study will become part of the comprehensive plan.
The 67 square-mile area covered in the study is the same as the area in the comprehensive
plan. However, there is an additional 20 square miles of school district property not
included in the study.
Schoppe said the study also doesn't address timing of when the schools should be built,
nor does it address funding.
Reviewing the executive summary, the study projects the needs to be:
• 47 elementary schools, with a population of 500 students per school and an
overall elementary school population of 23,681.
• 19 middle schools, with a population of 750 students per school and a middle
school total population of 14,384.
Page 2 of 10 '
• 8 to 11 high schools depending on school populations of either 1,500 or 2,000
with an overall high school population of 17, 258.
Schoppe said he's met with School District officials who keep records on development
and how it relates to student population. The calculations for the fixture needs were based
on the assumption of.98 students per dwelling unit. Of those students, an estimated 45
percent are elementary school age, 23 percent are middle school age and 31 percent are in
the high school age category.
Schoppe then said the School District needs 15 acres for each elementary school site, 25
acres for each middle school, 35 acres for a combined elementary/middle school site and
100 acres for each high school site.
With varying levels of intensity, there are varying levels of density, he said. Based on
past history, the density assumption of 1.5 units per acre was made in the estate district,
2.0 units per acre in the yellow area, and 3.0 in the transitional areas and 2.5 units per
acre in the traditional area.
Schoppe said the study is broken up into various planning areas. And the planning areas
are defined by some of the physical barriers in the city such as state highways and
railroad tracks.
Schoppe then went on to point out the summary of schools required in each planning
area, found on Page 2 of the School Site Study.
School sites were plugged into a map in the study based on knowledge of past
developments and assumptions on where developments likely will occur based on the
Comprehensive Plan.
To show the level of detail of the study, Schoppe outlined Planning Area 1. The study
looks at the number of students coming from existing developments as well as
developments planned and anticipated developments. The study then calibrated the
number of students that would come from those developments.
The next step is to look at how the school district will get land for the school sites. That's
when the land-cash ordinance comes into play. For instanced, in Planning Area 1, two
properties alone would require a combined elementary/middle school site.
There area 10 areas such as that in the study, which underwent the same type of process,
he said.
Plan Commission Chairman Tom Lindblom asked what would the population of the city
be when the entire map is completed. Schoppe estimated that population would be
175,000 to 200,000 in that 67-squaare mile area.
Page 3 of 10
Schoppe added that they haven't shown any high school sites in the study because there
aren't any potential developments that can give 100 acres for a site. The developments in
town won't generate that kind of land. He said the land for a high school will have to be
purchased through revenues from land-cash donations.
Schoppe added the document will be inserted into the Comprehensive Plan.
Someone from the audience asked what the timeframe is for building the schools.
Schoppe said that was not included in the study.
Yorkville School District Superintendent Dr. Tomas Engler said the main purpose of the
study was to identify possible school sites so that they don't have to backtrack later. As
developments come into the city, the School District will have the study to look at as a
guide, he said.
Someone from the School Board predicted that the School District will grow by a
minimum of 12 percent in the next 5 to 7 years. By 2010, he said the School District will
be looking at a minimum of three elementary schools and a middle school. He added the
study will give the School District and city an opportunity to talk about these types of
issues as developers come.
Schoppe added that the study is based on the assumption that the type of projected
growth is the same type as what the city is seeing today. He suggested the study be
revisited every few years.
Dr. Engler said a sizeable portion of the city's growth will come from Joliet and not all
growth will take place in the city. There's potential for volatile growth in the 85 square
miles in the School District that wouldn't fall under the guidelines of the city.
Commissioner Brian Schillinger asked if the School District decides it would be more
economical to put buildings up for a larger enrollment, would the lot sizes planned be
large enough for the schools?
Dr. Engler, however, said it wouldn't be feasible to build for larger enrollments, such as a
750-student middle school. It would be more practical to have a 1,200-student middle
school.
Commissioner Michael Crouch, speaking as a School Board member, stated a lot of
people might find it difficult to think of Yorkville to look as it does on the study. The
district can never say that each of the schools in the study will be built, but it is important
to keep in mind that the district is in the midst of growth. He added, the School Board is
more concerned about the next five than the next 20.
Mayor Art Prochaska said he's glad the study was made and that it will be an important
tool for the city. He, too, said the schools might not be built exactly as shown in the
study. However, the study is a guideline to help the city.
Page 4 of 10
Commissioner Andrew Kubala stated that the study shows two new elementary/middle
schools proposed, but none are west of Route 47. He asked why the study was drafted
that way. Schoppe said most of the other areas were already developed, plus part of the
land is in the Plano School District.
Dr. Engler suggested that people not get too worked up about projected populations or
even the number of schools, it's just important that there is a map to follow beyond 7 to
10 years.
At the most conservative estimates, he said the district is looking at doubling the school
system by 2010.
NEW BUSINESS
1. PC 2001-06 Grande Reserve Units 5, 7 & 8 -- preliminary and final plats
John Phillipchuck, representing the developers MPI, said the plats have been labeled
preliminary/final. As they progress to where they will be recorded,they will be labeled
final.
Schoppe said his comments are similar to what they were last month. There is a small list
of comments that need to be addressed prior to final plat approval. His recommendation
was to approve the final plats subject to those comments being met.
John Whitehouse from Engineering Enterprises, Inc. concurred saying there were just a
few minor items that need to be met. Schoppe said a major part of the light green area on
the map is a little bit smaller than the acreage in one of the annexation agreements. The
difference in the slight acreage reduction will be met in a cash donation. The city is okay
with that arrangement, he said.
Kubala made a motion to approve Grande Reserve Units 5, 7, and 8 as presented subject
to staff and consultants' input. Commissioner Anne Lucietto seconded the motion. The
motion was unanimously approved by a roll call vote. Kerry Green, Clarence Holdiman,
Anne Lucietto, Bill Davis, Sandra Adams, Brian Schillinger, Jack Jones, Michael
Crouch, Andrew Kubala and Tom Lindblom voted yes.
Whitehouse added that the project for permanent road improvements on Bristol Ridge
Road was let for bid at the end of March and a bid was accepted. Work will begin
sometime in May. That was one of the projects that was supposed to be done before any
houses were constructed.
2. PC 2002-06 Westbury Village—preliminary plan, annexation and zoning
Schoppe said it has been awhile since the plan has been before the Plan Commission. In
November 2002, R-2 residential and B-3 business zoning were approved. In April 2003,
the concept plan failed before the Plan Commission. Since then, there have been some
presentations to the Committee of the Whole on the project, but not official decisions
have been made. The developer made a decision to submit the preliminary plan in April.
Page 5 of 10
There also has been a reduction of units since that plan. Tonight, the concept plan is back
in front of the Plan Commission as a preliminary plan.
Schoppe said there also are some housekeeping items that need to be completed on the
annexation of 43 acres and on zoning of R2, R3 and B3.
Lindblom said the annexation, zoning and preliminary plan need to be voted on in three
different motions. Green made a motion to approve the annexation. Lucietto seconded the
motion. The motion was unanimously approved by roll call vote. Holdiman, Lucietto,
Davis, Adams, Schillinger, Jones, Crouch, Kubala, Green and Lindblom voted yes.
Kubala made a motion to approve an R-2,R-3 and B-3 PUD (Planned Urban
Development) for PC 2002-06. Lucietto seconded the motion. The motion was
unanimously approved by roll call vote. Lucietto, Davis, Adams, Schillinger, Jones,
Crouch, Kubala, Green, H61diman and Lindblom voted yes.
Standford Stein, attorney representing the developers, said in March 2003 there was a
public hearing on the proposed development. The developers then worked diligently with
city staff, the Planning Council and the COW to work out a viable plan. As a result of
those meetings, he said the developers reduced the number of units and he believes they
now have a very good plan now ready for the Plan Commission's consideration.
Brent Lewis from the Lannert Group said the proposed development covers over 300
acres which is now cropland. Rob Roy Creek goes through the property. Going over the
details of the proposed development, Lewis said there are two minor collector roads—
Westbury Boulevard and Manchester Way--winding through the development and
providing access. There are three single-family pods. Each pod has lots of 12,000 square
feet, except on lots that back up to open space. Those lots are 10,000 square feet.
There are two types of multi-family housing. The townhomes are located in Pods 5 and 8
and the courtyard residences are located in Pods 3 and 7, he said.
There is a school site between Pods 1 and 2. The school site if 15 acres and the
neighboring park site is 5 acres. Lewis said there also is a park site to the south consisting
of 4 acres.
Lewis said the clubhouse is centrally located and would be open to all of the property
owners in the development.
As for water, wet detention areas are planned with a variety of plantings surrounding
them. There also will be trails through the whole system as well as trails that will tie-in to
the regional trail system.
Lewis said they plan to add a lot of buffering on the sides and in between the different
uses.
Page 6 of 10
Green asked if parking would be allowed on the 28-foot streets. Lewis said no parking
will be allowed on those streets found in the multi-family area.
Lindblom said that the majority of buildings on page L5 have only one access. Lewis said
most of the traffic will come off Corneils Road and traffic can come through Westbury
Boulevard. He added there is a cul-de-sac in that area. Lindblom said from a safety
standpoint, he has a concern about getting fire equipment to those buildings. Lewis said
there has been some discussion about getting higher fire ratings on some of the buildings.
Stein said the fire department has seen the plan and the concerns have been covered. He
said maybe an emergency access route can be added through another pod.
Lindblom said he's also concerned about the area on Wyntrhop Lane, he said there's only
one way in. Stein said again an emergency access could be built through another pod. But
Lindblom asked where that could go. He asked why the developers wouldn't just make
the access road a through road. However, Lewis said they don't want to encourage traffic
driving between the pods. Lindblom said he's still nervous about trying to get fire-
fighting equipment to the areas he's mentioned.
Kubala said in April 2003, the plan presented had 937 units. The plan now has 890 units.
He said that is a very small 5 percent reduction. In addition, the developers are now
asking for private roads. He said it doesn't seem as if the situation has materially changed
since the last time the plan was before the Plan Commission.
Lewis said the private roads will be maintained by the homeowners association. More
importantly, the development consists of 25 percent multi-family housing and 30 percent
open space. It complies with the standards in the comprehensive plan according to
Schoppe.
Kubala said including the 22.7 acres of commercial property when claiming 2.9 units per
acres is against what Schoppe said would be allowed in his April 3, 2003 letter.
Schoppe said the majority of the property is in the transitional neighborhood. However,
he said that Kubala is right and that the commercial area should not be included when
calculating the density. With the amount of open space provided the developers are in
compliance with the comprehensive plan.
Lindblom asked why the developers want to have private roads in the multi-family area.
Lewis said by making the bigger roads, they're adding more pavement, which is what
they don't want to do. He said it's not appealing and people drive faster on wider roads.
Crouch said the density of the plan is too high. He said this plan looks a lot like the plan
the Plan Commission rejected last year. Everyplace where they could squeeze in one
more lot, they did, he said.
Page 7 of 10
He also said Corneils Road is a country road and isn't ready to handle two entrances to
the development.
Stein said the decrease in units is substantial and that there is more than 100 acres of open
space.
Kubala said most of what is set aside for open space is natural areas and wetlands. Stein
said the wetlands could either be ignored or the developers can work with the area
creatively. He said they've done just that. He said the plan is well crafted and organized.
To set the record straight, Lindblom said he represents the fire department on the Plan
Commission. In good conscience, he said he cannot vote in favor of the plan because of
the two multi-family areas which to him are not safe.
Commissioner Jack Jones said the developers have met the criteria given to them by the
city.
Schoppe said in previous Plan Council discussions this type of townhome is becoming
more prevalent. Fire department representative Tim Fairfield is looking at changing
building standards regarding building materials to address these types of concerns.
Schillinger said replacing regular building materials with materials that are slower to burn
might not be the best way to go. He said the materials still burn.
Stein said they're not here to supplant anyone's knowledge. However, he said they've
met with the fire department twice and the representatives there seemed okay with the
plan.
Crouch asked if the fire department was in agreement with the plan. Secondly, he said
since the proposed plan is a PUD, the Plan Commission has more latitude.
City Administrator Tony Graff said Tim Fairfield with the fire department and met with a
representative from Washington D.C. on this specific issue. He said they're
recommending a full suppression system or the next best system to give people more time
to leave the scene if there is a fire. Graff said Fairfield met with Bill Dettmer and that the
fire suppression system recommendation will be part of the language regarding fire safety
in the PUD.
As for the 28-foot roads, Graff said that's appropriate. He said a 28-foot lane provides
more space than a 30-road where parking is allowed. Also, he said the police department
will have the authority to enforce traffic laws.
Schillinger said he's never been a fan of narrow roads and said that since there is no
parking he wondered if there would be ample parking available for homeowners and their
guests.
Page 8 of 10
Lewis said the plan allows for 4.5 parking spaces per unit. He said two cars can go in the
garage and at least two cars will fit in each driveway. In addition, there will be separate
parking for visitors.
Other than parking, density and safety, Lindblom asked if there were any more issues of
concern to Plan Commission members.
Lucietto asked if the developers have met with the Illinois Department of Natural
Resources. She said the wetlands study needs to be reviewed before the plan can be
approved.
Likewise, Lindblom said there are four or five issues in a letter from Whitehouse that
need to be addressed before the council could approve the plan.
Schillinger said that other than Westbury Boulevard, he wondered how traffic was
supposed to get to the clubhouse and the school and park sites. Lewis said for the most
part,that is the only way to access those sites.
Following the call for a vote, Lucietto made a motion to recommend approval of the
preliminary plan for PC 2002-06 subject to all comments from John Whitehouse, Mike
Schoppe and city staff. The motion failed 1 to 9 in a roll call vote. Jones voted yes. Davis,
Adams, Schillinger, Crouch, Kubala, Green, Holdiman, Lucietto and Lindblom voted no.
3. PC 2003-13 Bailey Meadows--preliminary plan
Kubala said that at a previous meeting, he suggested a certain road in the development go
straight to Baseline Road. He wondered why the suggested change hadn't been made.
Whitehouse said that the developers have since eliminated the far west entrance and have
planned a collector road to go north and south. The two stubs to the west would connect
to the collector, he said. Also, Schoppe said that the transportation study hadn't been
completed when the original suggestion was made.
To solve the access problem, Kubala suggest that lot 183 be temporarily eliminated and
uses as a temporary access. When an access road to the west becomes available, then the
lot could be developed, he said.
Gary Weber said the developers would prefer to leave the plan as is. He said a direct
connection to Route 47 would only encourage cut-through traffic and the residents will
bear the burden of that traffic.
Schoppe, however, said he'd like residents to have full access to Route 47. Whitehouse
said the road wouldn't have to be a straight line to Route 47. However, there needs to be
a real intersection mainly for the benefits of the residents trying to access 47.
Kelly Kramer, representing the city attorney's office, said there's a motion pending on
the recapture resolution along Baseline Road.
Page 9 of 10
Kubala made a motion to recommend approval of the plan as presented subject to
comments from Schoppe and city staff and subject to the recapture agreement to Baseline
Road. Green seconded the motion. The motion was approved 8-2. Adams, Crouch,
Kubala, Lindblom, Green, Holdiman, Lucietto and Davis voted yes. Schillinger and Jones
voted no.
PC 2004-03 Rob Roy Falls—concept plan
Stephen Yas said the plans for the development are unique and that before there is a
concept,there must be a spirit.
Looking at the community, the developers have devised a plan that builds on a 270-acre
parcel of land that builds on little of the land and embodies the spirit of the community,
Yas said.
Between the farming community and the downtown, Yas said there are a whole series of
quality of life issues. Therefore,the plan takes on a three-dimensional outlook. Using the
Prairie Crossing development in Grayslake as a prototype, Yas said that development is
very much like the one proposed for Yorkville.
Looking at the whole site in context with neighboring sites, Yas said they are proposing a
plan that would gateway with retail space roughly 60,000 square feet. Condos and offices
would be located above those retail spaces. Then there would be a reflecting pond with
farm windmills. The village center would feature rowhouses(townhomes)with alleys and
each would have a two-car garage.
The Daily Farm which is now on the property would be restored and renovated as a
demonstration farm and would maintained by a homeowner's association. The site also
would include condo sites and single-family home sites on 12,000 square foot lots. There
also would be plenty of prairie restoration and parkland, he said.
Yas said the development would have a special identity and that there are 12 prototype
homes that have never been built before. From the outside, the development would look
like Old Yorkville and from the inside, it would look like Yorkville today, he said.
Lucietto said she likes what she has seen so far. Kubala also said he was impressed with
the combination of uses.
Yas said all of the developer's projects are different from one another. He said the plans
come from quality of life issues.
Schillinger said he likes the plan, but he doesn't like alleys. He asked if the project could
be done without the alleys. But, Yas said he'd like to use them where they're necessary.
Schoppe said because of the location of the property, which is on Route 34 near a two-
light intersection, he would suggest including more commercial areas. Yas said they've
done studies and said the image of the project from Route 34 is very important.
Page 10 of 10
Crouch said the Plan Commission will need to approach the plan cautiously because it is
different than anything that has been done before. He also said that he wishes the plan
included more single-family homes and fewer townhomes.
Kubala and Lindblom both said they'd like to see a concept laid out so they could get a
better feel for the project.
5. PC 2004-04 Villas at the Preserve—concept plan
Chris Lannert said the concept plan covers a parcel of land 23.9 acres in size that abuts a
gas station and a forest preserve.
Plans are to build duplexes on the property. The duplexes would feature varying rooflines
and materials and the driveways would come out in different directions.
The property falls into the transitional area of the Comprehensive Plan and the proposed
density would comply with the plan.
Green said he likes the plan except there is only one way in or out of the property.
Lannert said the developers would work with the owner of the commercial property to
see if an emergency access way could be installed. Also, he said a divided boulevard into
the subdivision could be made wider so that would provide greater access.
Lindblom said it seems as if the Plan Commission likes the concept of the development.
The meeting adjourned at 10 p.m.
Minutes respectfully submitted by Dina Gipe