Plan Commission Minutes 2004 05-12-04 Page 1 of 6
UNITED CITY OF YORKVILLE Approved
PLAN COMMISSION MEETING 06/09/04
YORKVILLE CITY HALL COUNCIL CHAMBERS
WEDNESDAY, MAY 12, 2004
Deputy Chairman Anne Lucietto called the meeting to order at 7:02 p.m.
ROLL CALL
Members present: Andrew Kubala, Brian Schillinger, Bill Davis and Clarence Holdiman.
No quorum was established; Deputy Chairman Lucietto stated that there was no action to
be taken this evening and asked the presenters to proceed.
Members Michael Crouch arrived 7:04 and Kerry Green arrived 7:20.
VISITORS
Mayor Art Prochaska; Alderman Richard Sticka; City Attorney Kelly Kramer; City
Planner Mike Schoppe; Lynn Dubajic from the Yorkville Economic Development
Corporation; and John Whitehouse, Engineering Enterprises, Inc. Also, see attached sign-
in sheet.
MINUTES
None
PUBLIC HEARINGS
None
PRESENTATIONS
Land Use Plan for Regional Stormwater Management for Galena Road & Route 47
Planning Area
City Planner Mike Schoppe reported that, due to developer's interest in the area, City
Administrator Graff requesting that he prepare a conceptual regional storm water land use
plan for the area east of Route 47 from Corneils Road to Route 30.
Some things that need to be taken into consideration when developing the land use are:
• There have been meetings between Fox Metro and Yorkville-Bristol Sanitary
District (YBSD)to discuss how this area will be serviced.
• There is water infrastructure being built in the area.
• Engineering Enterprises, Inc. (EEI)has done a floodplain study of Rob Roy Creek
which investigated a tributary going into the creek called the Raymond Drainage
They found this tributary has significant floodplain issues.
He stated that the purpose of the presentation was to bring the Commission up to date
with research being done to update the Comprehensive Plan and begin discussions on
how to approach certain issues in the area.
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He turned the floor over to Mr. Whitehouse who explained the floodplain issues in the
area:
• Raymond Drainage is a tributary area of approximately 1300-1400 acres of land
south of Route 30 and east of Route 47 that contributes stormwater to the Rob
Roy Creek.
• Originally, the Raymond Drainage was not included in the Rob Roy Creek
Floodplain Study because it was thought to flow into the Blackberry Creek. Upon
further investigation, it was found to flow into the Rob Roy Creek.
• Anytime a tributary area is greater than a square mile and contributes to a
floodplain, the floodway needs to be identified.
• Over 180 acres has been identified which holds water up to 3' at its deepest
before it spills over and carries over to the Caledonia area and then to the Rob
Roy Creek.
• This area presents development problems such poor soil, depressional water
storage and stormwater detention.
Mr. Whitehouse went over maps which exhibited the conceptual development plans for
the area. He explained that the depressional area to the south could be excavated to a
depth of five to seven feet along with a new piped outlet to the Rob Roy Creek would
provide approximately 1,350 acre-feet of stormwater storage. This would provide
stormwater detention plus depressional storage for the whole area. All the developments
in the area could send their stormwater to this area; there would be no need for individual
detention basins. Conveyance channels would route the water to the detention area. He
reiterated that this is a conceptual plan and is not based on any development or concept
plans for the area.
Mr. Schoppe stated that the study area(Route 30 on the north, Corneils Road on the
south, Dickson Road to the east and Route 47 on the west) is approximately 1620 acres
with 225 acres of commercial use. Based on the current Comprehensive Plan, the
remaining acreage is projected to hold 3,400 homes at a density of 2.6 units/acre. Mr.
Schoppe explained that there are two issues the City needs to consider when amending to
Comprehensive Plan:
1. Maintain the same amount of commercial area as currently planned.
2. Maintain the same unit count(3,400 units)to support the commercial with less
land to work with due to the storm water management.
He proposed two options:
1. Additional density to maintain the same unit count
2. Providing density bonuses within developments in trade for receiving additional
high and dry open space beyond that which is required.
Mr. Whitehouse noted that typically in residential development 10%of land is set aside
to storm water management purposes. He stated that the overall acreage of the site is
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1,620 so it would be expected to set aside 162 acres. The large green area south of
Galena Road is 185 acres. This green area along with those set aside for conveyance
channels and swales brings the total area to approximately 275 acres. This is in access of
the typical area for storm water management and there is 120 acres less land for
development.
Mr. Schoppe and Mr. Whitehouse asked the Commission for their input.
Brian Schillinger noted that even though there is 120 acres less to develop, a developer
has more developable acreage to work with because they do not have to put detention
areas in.
Andrew Kubala questioned why the same numbers of units should be maintained. He
objected to this because the depressional area is a natural phenomenon and this area
should be deducted out and the original Comprehensive Plan maintained. Mr. Schoppe,
Mr. Whitehouse and Mr. Kubala further discussed the balance between residential and
commercial areas and the existing Comprehensive Plan.
Bill Davis asked what the reduction of commercial property would be. Mr. Schoppe
stated that he had not calculated this but estimated that it could be 10% less.
There was further discussion on the conveyance channels and the storage area. Mr.
Whitehouse further explained the concept:
o The channel would be similar to a bio-swale.
o It will convey water and have detention capabilities however it would be more of
a wetland area.
o There will be overflow weirs which will gradually control water flow in the case
of an extreme storm.
o The storage area will hold the runoff from a 100-year storm.
o The design will hold all the water from the north and east of the area or
everything in the Raymond Watershed.
Mike Crouch noted that the plan stops north of Corneils Road and he asked if there was
any other areas affected by the floodplain or wetlands extending to the railroad tracks.
Mr. Whitehouse stated that the area south of Corneils Road is in the Blackberry Creek
Watershed and he explained how the proposed plan helps out the Blackberry Creek
floodplain.
Mr. Crouch clarified that the commercial would be diminished because there will not be
enough residents to support it. Mr. Schoppe stated that this is the assumption however at
this time here are no statistics to support it; further research is needed. Mr. Crouch stated
that he felt it was hard to accept this assumption.
Mr. Davis asked Mayor Prochaska asked what the reasoning was behind maintaining
density as it related to commercial property. Mayor Prochaska stated that the United City
of Yorkville is in competition with other communities for attracting commercial
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properties because commercial developers look at unit count to support the commercial
area. Lynn Dubajic, Executive Director of the Yorkville Economic Development
Corporation, stated that commercial developers also look at the demographics of the
surrounding area of a property before they develop.
Mr. Schillinger commented that while he understood the concept of keeping the same
amount of addresses and population in the area to attract commercial he felt that larger lot
sizes larger gave a certain character to the town. He stated that he felt commercial will
still come to the area even with fewer homes. Mayor Prochaska stated that according to
the Comprehensive Plan, the transition areas cannot ask for more density without giving
the City something in return such as more usable open space.
Anne Lucietto stated that addressing the density was hard without available statistics.
She suggested that Mr. Schoppe do some further research and bring back some concrete
numbers to the Planning Commission so they could give direction.
Mr. Crouch commented that he liked the idea of a regional storm water management but
agreed more information was needed before density was addressed.
The Planning Commission discussed the second question posed to them; should the City
pursue providing density bonuses within developments in trade for receiving additional
high and dry open space beyond that which is required.
Mr. Schoppe explained that there will be open space around the water storage area. It has
been suggested that the City could acquire an additional 50— 150 acres of open space
around the site that could be used for a community recreation feature. In exchange for
the additional land, the City could consider trading a density "bonus"with the
landowners.
There was further discussion on this question including the change in density, cost of
land, potential uses for a larger parcel of land, etc.
Mr. Kubala and Mr. Green stated that they liked the idea of a trade for increased density
for increased open space. Mr. Crouch agreed however noted that each case has its own
merit. Mr. Davis commented that he would like to see the overall density remain as it is,
with no change to the Comprehensive Plan, but agreed to allow developer's to trade for
open space.
Mr. Schoppe clarified that the majority of the Commission felt that trading additional
units for open space was acceptable however the units/acre, location, etc. should be
considered before making the trade. The Commission agreed.
There was further discussion on the number of units as it relates to the commercial area.
Mr. Schoppe indicated that he would work with Mrs. Dubajic to investigate the statistics
related to this and bring this information back to the Commission.
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Mr. Whitehouse commented that there are a lot of"smart growth" seminars going on
which discuss if a population should be concentrated in one area with high design
standards versus spreading the population over as much land as possible. He noted that
units on smaller lots with more open space means less roads, sewers, watermains,
streetlights, etc. for the City to maintain. The City is better off in this situation with
regards to long term maintenance.
There was no further discussion.
Blackberry Creek Alternative Futures Project
Ksenia Rudensiuk of the Conservation Foundation addressed the Commission. She
shared the following data with the Commission:
• The Blackberry Creek begins in Elburn, Illinois and joins the Fox River in
Yorkville.
• The area has progressed from prairie to agricultural to urban development and as
the population increases in the area, a degradation of streams is seen.
• In this area of the country, rain water infiltrates the water table through wetlands
which filters the water that feeds local creeks.
• In a predevelopment system, some water evaporates and some slowly feeds
creeks. After an area develops, creeks are fed by surface runoff causing pollution,
erosion, etc.
• It is importance to maintaining creek quality for wildlife, and flooding.
• The use of native prairie grass with long root structure retards runoff, channels
and filters water to the water table, etc.
Ms. Rudensiuk explained that the Blackberry Creek Alternative Future Analysis Study
took municipal comprehensive plans for the watershed area and through the use of
computer modeling investigated the impact of the build out of the area on water quality.
The study looked at conventional(storm sewers, dense pavement, etc)and conservation
methods (wetlands, prairie grass, porous pavement, etc.)to water management along with
flooding and water quality information. She explained that the conservation method
maps creeks and rivers, flood plains, wetlands and hydrous soils and then the land use is
developed around this information. She stated that the study looked at once-a-year rain
event discharge rate,the required detention volume and the TQ mean(the portion of time
the flow is greater than average).
Ms. Rudensiuk stated that the study took 40 acre parcels and compared conventional
methods to conservation methods. She showed slides demonstrating the application of
both methods with regards to:
o Stream Corridors
o Wetlands
• Commercial—parking lots, retention areas, etc.
• Moderate Denisity—Residential
o Rural/Estate—Residential
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It was determined that the increase of conventional methods of storm water management
would increase runoff and flooding whereas the conservation method decreases this.
She also noted that the study did not address the clustering of buildings as Mr.
Whitehouse suggested earlier however clustering provides even better results than those
indicated in the study. There are benefits to clustering such as improving the
environment, lowering flooding and lowering infrastructure costs.
She stated that Aurora is a community who is implementing conservation principals with
developers in the Blackberry Creek Watershed. She stated that their comprehensive plan
has more details such as creeks, wetlands, hydrous soils, flood plains, etc. and developers
submit plans using this plan.
Ms. Rudensiuk also distributed various handouts regarding conservation design and
guidelines for local ordinances.
Ms. Rudensiuk asked if the Commissions had any questions. There were none. Deputy
Chairman Lucietto thanked her for the presentation.
OLD BUSINESS
None
NEW BUSINESS
None
ADDITIONAL BUSINESS
None
ADJOURNMENT
A motion was made by Mr. Kubala to adjourn the meeting; seconded by Mr. Schillinger.
The motion was approved by a viva voce vote.
The meeting adjourned at 8:45 p.m.
Minutes respectfully submitted by Jackie Milschewski, City Clerk
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
May 12, 2004
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