Plan Commission Minutes 2003 01-15-03 ` Page 1 of 10 APPROVED WITH REVISIONS
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UNITED CITY OF YORKVILLE
PLAN COMMISSION MEETING
WEDNESDAY,JANURARY 15, 2003
Chairman Tom Lindblom called the meeting to order at 7 p.m.
ROLL CALL
Members present: Kerry Green, Clarence Holdiman, Jeff Baker, Anne Lucietto, Bill
Davis, Sandra Adams, Brian Schillinger, Ted King, Andrew Kubala and Tom Lindblom.
Members absent: Jack Jones, Tom Mizel and Michael Crouch
A quorum was established.
VISITORS
Those who signed the sign-in sheet or spoke at the meeting were: John Baralow,
Yorkville;Jack Keck, Yorkville; Tom Small, Pasquinelli and Associates; Catherine
Allen, Moser Enterprises; Art Zwemke, Moser Enterprises; Lynn Dubajic, Yorkville
Economic Development Commission; Ken Koch, Yorkville; John Martin, JEN Land
Design;Alan Brauer, Land Vision, Inc.;Jorge Boada, Aurora; Chad Gunderson,New
Lenox;John Whitehouse, Sugar Grove; Mitch LaFave, Ocean Atlantic; Dan Waitt,
Beacon News; Tony Scott, Record Newspapers; Paul Von Holten, Bristol; Hobert Loftus,
Itasca;Randy Metz; City Attorney Dan Kramer; City Planner Mike Schoppe; City
Administrator Tony Graff; Mayor Art Prochaska; and Alderman Richard Sticka.
MINUTES
None
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. PC 2002-06 Westbury Village: Ocean Atlantic, petitioners request to annex and
rezone.
Anne Lucietto made a motion to go to public hearing. Andrew Kubala seconded the
motion. The motion was unanimously approved by voice vote.
Mitch LaFave, representing Ocean Atlantic, asked that the public hearing be continued
until the next meeting on Feb. 12.
Andrew Kubala made a motion to continue the public hearing. Brian Schillinger
seconded the motion. The motion was unanimously approved by voice vote.
OLD BUSINESS
1. PC 2001-06 Grande Reserve: MPI petition to annex and rezone.
Art Zwemke,president and CEO of Moser Enterprises, Inc., said that the developers,
MPI, are working on a quintessential master plan community. "We really feel we've
come up with a very efficient plan,"he said.
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By putting together a master plan community, the developers have the ability to vary the
product types, Zwemke said. In reviewing the plan, Zwemke said that the developers are
now looking at a school site down off Kennedy Road.
In addition, he said there are 423 acres of open space in the 1,127-acre development.
Kendall County has 600 acres if the forest preserve district, Zwemke said. So the open
space in the planned Grande Reserve development is a sizeable amenity, he said.
There are two key components in the open space— a 56-acre regional park and an 88-acre
conservation area.
Zwemke said that traditionally land cash contributions are half land and half cash. He
said the developers would agree to that, plus offer $1,000 per home site for park
improvements. He said their intent is to build the park amenities as quickly as possible.
In addition to the public amenities, Zwemke said the development would feature a $2 to
$2.5 million private clubhouse. He said the clubhouse is the first of its kind in Yorkville.
To get into the nuts and bolts of the proposed project, Zwemke said that the overall
density is 2.35 units per acre.
He said storm water management was a big concern expressed at public hearings. He said
the developers have meet with city staff to come up with some solutions. He said they
could manage storm water and divert it from areas prone to flooding. He said they are
planning some non-traditional detention systems where not all of the detentions are wet
and will use natural plantings near the wet areas.
As for schools, Zwemke said that there is a 15-acre elementary school site already in the
plan and that the developers are working with the Yorkville School District regarding a
campus on Kennedy Road.
Regarding neighborhoods 1, 2 and 3, Zwemke said there were four general concerns
raised at the last meeting. One was the lot sizes. Zwemke said the developers want to
create an envelope around the lots to keep the lots smaller, but make them appear larger.
Zwemke said the envelopes would be 40 x 100 feet minimum. Meanwhile, the average
lot size would be 8,655 square feet.
The plan also was redesigned to put neighborhoods 1, 2 and 3 in one community with a
density of 3.132.
Another concern previously expressed by Plan Commission members centered on how
the developers would target an empty-nest client without restricting the ages of the
buyers.
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Zwemke said they have put restriction on the homes to discourage family buyers. He said
all homes have to have the master bedroom on the first floor,which immediately wipes
out the family market.
Also,the developers would limit the amount of bedrooms in the homes. Zwemke said
that no more than 50 percent of the homes in the development could have three
bedrooms.
Likewise, he said that 80 percent of the homes would be ranch-style homes, geared
toward the empty nester. Plus, Zwemke said that the price per square inch for a ranch-
style home is 30 percent more than a two-story home.
With those restrictions in place, Zwemke said that they are pricing a family buyer out of
the homes.
In addition, he said these types of communities are lifestyle communities. For instance
they would pay for maintenance. Zwemke said that hypothetically, there could be a
monthly maintenance fee of about$300. For a family buyer,that additional$300 per
month could buy an extra$50,000 on a mortgage.
Typically,Zwemke said, the empty-nest buyer is a cash buyer looking to downsize, but
doesn't want to take care of a lot of maintenance.
Lastly, Zwemke sketched out a clubhouse, which exists in one empty-nester community.
Also, he showed an exhibit of a trail system for the community, which would feature
equipment targeted toward that buyer.
On the issue of sidewalks, Zwemke said the developers had a discussion with city staff
and agreed to have sidewalks on both sides of the streets throughout the area of
neighborhoods 1, 2 and 3. Without the compromise, Zwemke said they had 3 miles of
trails. Now there are over 5 miles of trails and sidewalks, he said.
As for side yard setbacks, Zwemke said there are no fire safety issues with 6-foot side
yards. He said the developers would never compromise public safety issues. He said there
is enough room between the homes to service them in case of a fire emergency. He then
showed a sketch of a fire ladder reaching a house.
Commission Chairman Tom Lindblom said that firefighters put the ladder to the roof and
not to a window. He also said that he doesn't feel comfortable with 14 feet between
buildings.
He also asked if the developers talked to the school district about the relocation of the
proposed high school campus.
Zwemke said the school district is looking for 65 buildable acres. He said they intend to
work with surrounding property owners to create a viable campus area. He added that the
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developers did not want to bring anything to the school board until they met with the Plan
Commission, but they did speak with Superintendent Dr. Engler who seemed comfortable
with the idea.
Commissioner Kerry Green remarked that the proposed new site in considerably smaller.
Zwemke said they would have to make up for the difference in cash contributions. He
said they're trying to work out an arrangement with Hinsdale Nursery regarding land.
Green also said he is still concerned about lot size. He said they seem very small.
Zwemke said the plan started with 340 homes on lots of 7,200 to 8,400 square feet. They
redesigned the land plan to fit 290 homes. He said they have no doubt there is a viable
market for these types of homes on lots of this size. He asked that the Plan Commission
take into consideration that this is a terrific land plan instead of what they had been
working on.
Commissioner Andrew Kubala said he likes the idea and said that the density works well
with the city's new comprehensive plan. He added that he's approaching the stage in life
where this type of home product sounds appealing.
Lindblom commented that the way the plans are drawn, until Neighborhood 4 is
developed,there's only one way out. He asked if any provision could be made for
another access point.
Zwemke said the development next to the MPI project, which is in Oswego, would have
a connecting roadway. However as the plan evolves, if the other development isn't
finished,then MPI will install another roadway.
Kubala then asked if the traffic study was completed. Zwemke said they are in the second
phase of the traffic study. He said the study should be finalized by the end of the month.
Zwemke added he would like to address the comprehensive plan. He pointed to the pink
area of the comprehensive plan and said he thought there was flexibility to move the pink
area to Bristol Ridge Road, but he was mistaken. Therefore,the developers are about 25
acres short in the pink area to meet all of the city's criteria for the transitional zoning. He
distributed a memorandum dated January 14,that states they pledge to cut the density of
the portions of the project and to make a few other concessions.
To close the gap to achieve the additional open space requirements of 25 percent or 198
acres, Zwemke said the developers ask for consideration of the following options posed
in the letter. (See attached.)
He said the comprehensive plan talks about using minor areas of detention areas for open
space. The question is, what's minor, he said. He asked if it could be additional open
space created such as if a path runs around a detention area, would that be a form of open
space?
V
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Wetlands banking may be another topic to discuss,Zwemke said. He added there are
three or four different avenues that could cover the 25 acres needed. He said the
developers will comply with the comprehensive plan one way or another, but they want
to look at other options.
The fourth option in the letter would give the developers credit for the provision of
natural detention areas to improve the quality of storm water runoff, he said. For instance
if there are 20 acres set aside for storm water retention, maybe 5 or 10 of those acres
could be counted as open space.
Zwemke said they're hearts are in the right place. On the whole, he believes they have
created a community that will be a nice landmark community with plenty of open space
and recreation. He added he'd like the proposal to move forward to the city council.
Lindblom said he would like to see the traffic study completed before the proposal moves
ahead.
Zwemke said there has been an enormous amount of work done between the developers,
the city staff and the city police department. City Administrator Tony Graff said that
although the final version of the traffic report isn't complete,the numbers in the report
would not change.
Graff said that at this point, definite roadway improvements would be needed. He added
that by the time the proposal gets to the City Council, a PUD agreement would be drafted
to cover all of the necessary issues.
Lindblom said that over the holidays and at parties were he has spoken with residents;
their biggest concern seems to be traffic. He said he would feel more comfortable if he
could look at his neighbor and say he gave the traffic study and the proposed
development due consideration.
Graff said that in this master plan community, there would be a PUD review. The review
requires that the PUD go before the Plan Commission and the City Council. He said it's a
new step that has been added to the PUD process.
Graff added that the city would demand the developers build the roads as required by the
traffic engineers. He said the city's staff is confident they will find some common ground
with the developers. He said the city would ask for some extras in regard to future
expansion.
Lindblom then asked the other commissioners how they felt about the traffic study.
Commissioner said he was okay with voting on the zoning request. He said the
developers would have to come back to the Plan Commission for further
recommendation. By the time the preliminary plat comes up to the commission for
recommendation, Baker said he wants to see all of the ducks in a row.
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Lindblom asked how other commissioners felt about the side yard setbacks.
Commissioner Sandra Adams agreed with Lindblom saying that is it something that
needs to be addressed.
Kubala,however, said he feels comfortable with the 14 feet between houses. He said that
the International Building Codes accept even narrower side yard setbacks. He also added
that the majority of homes in Neighborhoods 1,2 and 3 are supposed to be ranch homes.
Lindblom said he has a different interpretation of what's in the International Building
Code. He said the code's regulations call for 10 to 20 feet between homes. Ideally, he
said he's comfortable with 20 feet between homes.
Zwemke said if the range is 10 to 20 feet,then the developers are in that range. They're at
14 feet between homes. Also, he said 80 percent of the homes will be ranch homes and it
would be unlikely that two two-story homes would be located next to each other.
Commissioner Brian Schillinger said the lots are postage stamp-sized lots. He also said
there is nothing stopping families with children to move into the homes.
Zwemke countered that the school district officials would take their odds on a
development like this. With the controls in place, he does not think that portion of the
development will generate very many children.
Schillinger said he has examples of housing communities built with the same intent that
now have families living in the homes.
Zwemke said those homes don't have monthly maintenance fees of$150 or more. This
community is directed towards buyers looking for upscale homes, he added.
Commissioner Bill Davis asked if there were certain areas in the development where the
two-story homes would be placed. Zwemke said he would leave that latitude to the
builder.
Zwemke added that he's worked on several empty-nester communities that have been
very successful. With the price of the homes and the fees in place, Zwemke said the odds
are tremendously in favor of attracting the empty-nest buyer.
Going back to the fire safety issue, Commissioner Kerry Green asked about building the
homes with flame-retardant materials. Zwemke said even if those types of materials were
used,the fire could come though windows.
City Planner Mike Schoppe said the city staff has worked a lot with the developers on the
comprehensive plan. He said the entire project comes down to one issue of the 25 acres
of open space the developer is short on in the transitional area. Schoppe said that the
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commission read the developer's commitment and asked if the members were
comfortable with it.
He said the standards they're presenting are consistent with local and national design
standards for age-targeted communities.
Schoppe said that the issue of the right away still needs to be resolved. Overall, in the
other areas of yellow,the developer is not looking for a deviation of standards. He said
there are still some details in the plan to be worked out, but the city's staff feels
comfortable with it.
Graff said the city staff is at the point where they have a lot of good language to begin
drafting a PUD agreement. He said he'd like the Plan Commission's input as to what
should go in the PUD. He added that there are enough checks and balances in the PUD
and preliminary plan process for the city to make sure the developers are doing
everything they need to be doing.
Graff then asked if the Plan Commission felt comfortable with the concept presented by
Zwemke.
Just to clarify what the commission would be voting on, City Attorney Dan Kramer said
the developers petitioned to have zoning approved and to have the concept plan
approved.
Zwemke said that the developers are good with master plan communities. He said they
documented everything in an agreement with Plainfield and so far everything in that
development has gone through without exception. "We're going to be here a long time.
We're going to do this right,"Zwemke said.
Green asked if the school site were moved, how would that affect the density. Zwemke
said the density would never be higher than what it is now.
Kubala made a motion to recommend the acceptance of the R-2 Planned Unit
Development Zoning for PC 2001-06. Lucietto seconded the motion. The motion was
unanimously approved 10-0 by roll call vote. Kerry Green, Clarence Holdiman, Jeff
Baker, Anne Lucietto, Bill Davis, Sandra Adams, Brian Schillinger, Ted King, Andrew
Kubala and Tom Lindblom voted yes.
Kubala made a motion to recommend the acceptance of the concept plan for PC 2001-06
to the city council. Lucietto seconded the motion. The motion was approved by a 9 to 1
roll call vote. Holdiman, Baker, Lucietto, Davis, Adams, King, Kubala, Lindblom and
Green voted yes. Schillinger voted no.
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NEW BUSINESS
1. PC 2002-12 Kylyn's Ridge: AMG Homes, Inc. petition for final plat approval.
Chad Gunderson with AMG Homes said the plan is essentially the same as what was
approved in the preliminary plat. He said Schoppe had a couple of small comments that
still need to be addressed.
The preliminary plat is for the first phase, which includes 55 lots on the eastern edge of
the property. Fifty of those lots will be immediately buildable, Gunderson said. Until the
temporary lift station is built in Phase 2,the other five lots won't be buildable, he said.
Kubala asked if the final plat is substantially the same as the preliminary plat,then why is
there a litany of comments from City Engineer Joe Wywrot?
Schoppe said that Wywrot is being thorough and that while sometimes the final
engineering can have an impact on the platting, the comments from Wywrot are
relatively minor and can be reviewed and approved by Wywrot.
Jorge Boada said the developers will meet all of the comments regarding the plat and that
any necessary changes will be made.
Schoppe said the development is a straightforward project.
Lucietto made a motion to recommend the approval of the final plat for PC 2002-12.
Kubala seconded the motion. The motion was unanimously approved in a roll call vote.
Baker, Lucietto, Davis, Adams, Schillinger, King, Kubala, Lindblom, Green and
Holdiman voted yes.
2. PC 2002-29 Bowman Property: Inland Real Estate Development Corp., petition
for 1.5-mile review for Kendall County RPD-3.
Alan Brauer with Land Vision, Inc.,presented the plan for a proposed subdivision
development near the corner of Route 71 and Hill Top Road. The property consists of
about 32.3 acres and is located south of Route 71 across from the forest preserve.
Brauer said the plans call for 18 lots. A variance will be needed for one lot,which
exceeds the county's maximum lot size of 45,000 square feet,he said.
The lots will be about 120 feet wide on average and will be serviced by well and septic.
A creek runs north and south on the far west edge of the property, Brauer added. There
also is a tree line that runs around most of the property and through the center, he said.
Plans call for a 70 feet right of way with a pavement width of 28 feet, he said.
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Lindblom commented that the roadway has a steep drop in elevation. He also expressed
concern that there is only one entrance to the subdivision.
Lucietto said that Wywrot asked for a second stub at Lot 11. Brauer said the fire chief
said he didn't have an issue with the length of the cul-de-sac.
Schoppe said that because it is a county subdivision, the cul-de-sacs could be longer.
Brauer said the Illinois Department of Transportation has recommended that they
developers move the entrance on Route 71 south about 20 feet.
Lucietto said that basically the commission is voting on a 1.5-mile review. She asked that
the developers take Wywrot's comments and comments from city staff into
consideration.
Lucietto made a motion to recommend to the county that zoning be approved for PC
2002-29. Davis seconded the motion. The motion was unanimously approved by roll call
vote. Lucietto, Davis,Adams, Schillinger, King, Kubala, Lindblom, Green, Holdiman
and Baker voted yes.
3. PC 2002-30 Tucek Property: Ronald Tucek, petitioner, request 1.5-mile review
for Kendall County RPD-2.
Randy Metz said the property is currently used for agricultural purposes. He said the
existing homestead will stay and be labeled Lot 1.
The property consists of 51.2 acres and the development will feature 30 lots with a
density of.6 units per acre. The minimum lot size will be 30,000 square feet and the lot
width will be 125 feet.
Metz said the developers plan to preserve the existing trees to the best of their ability.
Therefore,they're going with a 66-foot right of way rather than a 70-foot right of way to
preserve the trees.
He said there are two access points—one from Long Grove Road and one from High
Point Road.
He said all 30 lots back up to open space. In all, there are 21.3 acres of open space in the
development including a 3-acre park site in the southwest corner.
Plans call for a wet pond for detention.
Schoppe said the plan is straightforward.
Kubala made a motion to recommend the county approve the zoning change. Lucietto
seconded the motion. The motion was unanimously approved by roll cal vote. Davis,
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Adams, Schillinger, King, Kubala, Lindblom, Green, Holdiman, Baker and Lucietto
voted yes.
The meeting adjourned at 8:45 p.m.
Minutes respectfully submitted by Dina Gipe
Revisions by Jackie Milschewski, City Clerk