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Plan Commission Minutes 2003 03-12-03 ORIGINAL APPROVED BY THE COMMI EEIBOARD ON: __ 6L_ PLAN COMMISSION MEETING CITY OF YORKVILLE REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS had at the meeting of the above-entitled matter, taken before Nicola Gengler, C . S . R . , No . 84 -3780 , on March 12 , 2003 , at the hour of 7 : 00 p . m. , at 800 Game Farm Road, Yorkville , Illinois . D-643803 REPO • COURT Pcporting sci-N'Icc 800 West Fifth Avenue • Suite 106A • Naperville, IL 60563 • 630-983-0030 • Fax 630-983-6013 www.depocourt.coni 2 1 PRESENT : 2 MR . TOM LINDBLOM, Chairman; 3 MR . MICHAEL CROUCH; 4 MR . BILL DAVIS ; 5 MR . KERRY GREEN; 6 MR . TED KING; 7 MR . ANDREW KUBALA; 8 MR . MIKE SCHOPPE ; 9 MS . ANNE LUCIETTO; 10 MR . CLARENCE HOLDIMAN; 11 MR. BRIAN SCHILLINGER; 12 MR . JEFF BAKER; 13 MR . JACK JONES ; 14 and 15 LAW OFFICES OF DANIEL J . KRAMER 1107A South Bridge Street 16 Yorkville , Illinois 60560 BY : MR . DANIEL J . KRAMER, 17 appeared on behalf of the City of Yorkville . 18 ALSO PRESENT : 19 MAYOR ART PROCHASKA; 20 MS . LAURA BROWN; and 21 MS . LYNN DUBAJIC . 22 23 24 DepoCourt Reporting Service ( 630) 983 - 0030 3 1 MR . LINDBLOM : I ' d like to call the meeting 2 to order . I guess I will do roll call . 3 Kerry Green? 4 MR . GREEN : Here . 5 MR . LINDBLOM : Brian Schillinger? 6 Sandra Adams? 7 Anne Lucietto? 8 MS . LUCIETTO : Here . 9 MR . LINDBLOM : Jack Jones? 10 MR . JONES : Here . 11 MR . LINDBLOM : Tom Mizel? 12 Clarence Holdiman? 13 MR . HOLDIMAN : Here . 14 MR . LINDBLOM : Ted King? 15 MR . KING : Here . 16 MR . LINDBLOM : Jeff Baker? 17 MR . BAKER : Here . 18 MR . LINDBLOM : Andrew Kubala? 19 MR . KUBALA: Here . 20 MR . LINDBLOM : And Mike Crouch? 21 MR . CROUCH : Here . 22 MR . LINDBLOM : We do have a quarum. 23 MR . GREEN : And Bill Davis . 24 MR . LINDBLOM : I am sorry. Okay . DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 4 1 Previous meeting minutes , is there 2 any additions or corrections? 3 MR . GREEN : I have one , Page 9 , the fourth 4 paragraph . The motion was approved by an eight to one 5 vote . Holdiman Baker, Lucietto, King, Crouch, Kubala, 6 Lindblom and Kerry Green in there voted yes . Jones 7 voted no . 8 MR . LINDBLOM : So you voted yes , Kerry? 9 MR . GREEN : Yes . 10 MR . LINDBLOM : Just for the record, I have 11 three or four other rather smaller grammatic rather 12 than substantive . So I will get that into the clerk or 13 secretary . 14 Any other additions or corrections? 15 MR . KUBALA: Yes . 16 MS . LUCIETTO : Yes , I do . 17 On Page 5 at the bottom, it says 18 that Lucietto said she wanted to, "Clarify the previous 19 comment . " I think it should say, "Clarify a statement 20 at a previous meeting . " It wasn ' t clear the way it was 21 written . 22 MR . LINDBLOM : Clarify a statement at the 23 previous meeting? 24 MS . LUCIETTO : "Statement at a previous DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 - 0030 5 1 meeting that she made . " So get rid of " Previous 2 comment , " and put in, "Statement at a previous 3 meeting . " 4 MR . LINDBLOM: Andy, you had some? 5 MR . KUBALA: Yes . I don ' t know . This 6 might be verbatim what was said by Ocean Atlantic , but 7 going to Page 2 , third paragraph, we see Ocean Atlantic 8 being credited with 1 , 200 units and then 1 , 047 units 9 and then going down to Paragraph 6 to 930 units . 10 MR. LINDBLOM : Does anybody from Ocean 11 Atlantic recall what that was , number of units? 12 MR . LANNERT : I would suggest they are 13 probably all correct . 14 MR . LINDBLOM : What does that tell me? 15 MR . LANNERT : The number of plans have been 16 submitted, and those were numbers on various plans . We 17 have another plan tonight which will give us even a 18 fourth number to add to those three . 19 MR . LINDBLOM : Chris , could you please just 20 for the record identify yourself . 21 MR . LANNERT : My name is Chris Lannert , 22 L-A-N-N-E-R-T . I am the planning consultant for Ocean 23 Atlantic . 24 MR . LINDBLOM : Any other additions or DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 6 1 corrections? 2 MR . KUBALA : Page 3 at the bottom, we have 3 a motion to close the public hearing and then - - which 4 was passed, and then we have a motion to continue the 5 public hearing . 6 I believe that the structure was 7 such that and Anne seconded my revised motion to 8 continue the public hearing rather than having it 9 closed and then reopened . 10 MS . LUCIETTO : That is correct . 11 MR . LINDBLOM : So next to the bottom 12 paragraph is not correct? 13 MR . KUBALA : Yes . The last to the bottom 14 paragraph is not correct and should be deleted . 15 There are also conflicting things 16 here where Ocean Atlantic states that they are going to 17 agree with the comprehensive plan and then turn around, 18 but I think we will get some clarification of that 19 later on. 20 Going to Page 6 under New Business , 21 third paragraph, beginning Schoppe , I believe that the 22 word "only" should be replaced by the word "after . " 23 MR . LINDBLOM : Where are you? I am sorry. 24 MR . KUBALA: Third paragraph under New DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 7 1 Business , beginning Schoppe , second line being, 2 "presented only, " should be , "presented after . " 3 MS . LUCIETTO : What page? 4 MR . LINDBLOM : Are you on Page 6? 5 MR . KUBALA: Page 6 . 6 MR . GREEN : Under New Business . 7 MR . LINDBLOM : Oh, I was going at the top . 8 Yes , I agree "only" is crossed out . 9 MR . KUBALA: And then next paragraph down 10 reads , "After the memo, " and it probably is more 11 appropriate to be , "After Mr . Schoppe ' s memo, " because 12 there is several memos talked about . 13 MR . LINDBLOM : You are missing the word, 14 " I , " in there . 15 MR . KUBALA : Yes , and then Page 8 , the 16 first full paragraph, I think it would be more 17 appropriate to begin, "Mr . Schoppe . " 18 MR . LINDBLOM : I am happy to see that you 19 give the respect that you are with Mr . Schoppe . 20 MR . SCHOPPE : It sounds like I talk a lot . 21 MR . KUBALA: Don ' t you always? 22 MR . LINDBLOM : Any other corrections? 23 Ted, do you have something? 24 MR . KING : No . DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 8 1 MR . LINDBLOM : Any others? 2 (No response . ) 3 Hearing none , can I have a motion 4 to approve the minutes as correct? 5 MR . KUBALA: So moved . 6 MR . GREEN : Second . 7 MR . LINDBLOM : Further discussion? 8 (No response . ) 9 Hearing none , those in favor 10 signify by saying aye . 11 (Whereupon, there was a 12 course of ayes . ) 13 MR . LINDBLOM : Opposed? 14 (No response . ) 15 MR . LINDBLOM : Minutes are approved . 16 Ladies and gentlemen, one other 17 housekeeping thing, I believe there is a sign-up sheet 18 up here . If you haven ' t signed in already, could 19 somebody grab that and start passing it around, please . 20 Probably just as easy - - is anybody 21 else not signed in? Why don ' t you just stay there . 22 Let ' s take the sign-in pad and let ' s just pass it 23 around up and down the rows . It is probably just as 24 quick . DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 9 1 At this time , I would entertain a 2 motion to go to public hearing . 3 MR . BAKER : So moved, Baker . 4 MS . LUCIETTO : Second, Lucietto . 5 MR . LINDBLOM : Moved and seconded to go to 6 public hearing . 7 Is there any discussion on the 8 motion? 9 Those in favor signify by saying 10 aye . 11 (Whereupon, there was a 12 course of ayes . ) 13 MR . LINDBLOM : Opposed? 14 (No response . ) 15 Motion passed, and this is the time 16 when anybody that wishes to address the commission 17 would stand and raise your right hand and repeat the 18 following . 19 (Members of the audience were 20 thereupon duly sworn . ) 21 MR . LINDBLOM : The first public hearing is 22 continued from February 12 . It is PC2002 - 06 , Westbury 23 Village , and Ocean Atlantic is the petitioner . 24 MR . STEIN: Thank you, Mr . Chairman . I DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 10 1 will introduce myself . My name is Sanford Stein . Most 2 people know me as Sandy Stein. I will be serving for 3 Ocean Atlantic in this proceeding . 4 I understand that this matter has 5 been previously opened and continued from time to time 6 to this date , that previous evidence of notification 7 has been provided and submitted into the record and 8 that other various documents have been submitted into 9 the record that you have . We will be submitting some 10 other information for you tonight . 11 A brief introduction as to me and 12 what I am hoping to contribute to the process . I have 13 about 28 years of experience in doing land use work, 14 more than I care to admit anymore . Although I just 15 did . There was a time I used to try to pump those 16 numbers , but I might want to reduce it now. 17 I started out my career at the US 18 EPA, both in Washington, DC, and Chicago . I have 19 background in environmental law. Also, after that , 20 after a few years at the EPA, I worked with a law firm 21 that you may have heard of , Ancel , Glink, municipal law 22 firm. 23 I had the privilege of working with 24 Lou Ancel who is known in some circles and those who DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 11 1 remember him as Mr . Municipal law. He may have 2 invented, if you will , the modern municipal law in 3 Illinois . He has passed away since , but a short period 4 of time I learned a whole lot from working with him. I 5 say that to point out to you even though for the last 6 number of years I have worked with the private sector, 7 I have been on your side of the table . I learned how 8 to do what I do by sitting in the same seat , literally 9 the same one right now that Mr . Kramer has , in many 10 communities . 11 I currently am a member, for what 12 it is worth, in the Lake County Regional Planning 13 Commission. So I also from time to time do your job . 14 I understand it . I try to counsel my clients to have 15 understanding and consideration for the difficult 16 process that we are all engaged in . 17 We are looking forward to 18 proceeding tonight and moving on with this . I know a 19 great deal of progress has been made prior to my coming 20 on board . I am here to assist and to help . You have 21 all met Mitch LaFave from Ocean Atlantic and Chris 22 Lannert who you know well . 23 What we would like to do tonight in 24 a short period of time but as complete as possible DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 12 1 especially because we are on the record is reintroduce 2 our concept for you tonight . Mr . Lannert will do that , 3 answer all of your questions , show you one or two new 4 ideas and then, of course , hopefully with your approval 5 move on as productively as we can . 6 With that , I will ask Chris to step 7 up . 8 MR . LANNERT : Thank you, Mr . Chairman . I 9 will go over to the boards , and I will make my 10 presentation from the board . If anyone can ' t hear me 11 or the court reporter, I will try and speak slowly. 12 The subject site is the property 13 known as the Undesser Farm. It is located - - the 14 property is located south of Galena Road, west of 15 Route 47 . The property has been previously annexed 16 into the community of Yorkville . Yorkville ' s 17 appropriate limit lines are outlined in yellow and 18 shaded in yellow. 19 This portion as I will describe on 20 the site analysis is approximately 43 acres which has 21 not been previously annexed but will be annexed as a 22 result of this concept hearing and as we move forward . 23 As you can see , this site is at the 24 north end of the community. The site itself is DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 13 1 composed of approximately 300 acres . The Rob Roy Ditch 2 runs through the middle of it . It sets up a high point 3 on the north side of the creek, below the high point on 4 the south side of the creek . As you would assume , the 5 low point at the property is at the ditch as it exits 6 our property on the south . There is slight undulation 7 in terms of the property from top to bottom, but the 8 basic area in the middle as you drive down Route 47 is 9 pretty much flat Illinois farm land. 10 The compost pile that exists in 11 this location and the dashed line which I am drawing my 12 finger around in this portion is the 43 acres which has 13 not previously been annexed . Of the property that has 14 been annexed, there is a B3 parcel of approximately 15 13 acres in this location and this corner piece of 16 property which is labeled park. It is not part of the 17 300 acres . It is , in fact , the part that exists at the 18 corners of that intersection . 19 The plan that we have been looking 20 at has changed and been modified over time . The 21 current plan that we have this evening incorporates an 22 additional revision that you don ' t have in your packet . 23 Ted, if you want to pass out the revised plans . 24 The only thing which has changed DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 14 1 from the plan that you have is the addition of the 2 20 -acre school and park site in this location . Your 3 plan had the large park district site but did not 4 incorporate the school district site . We think this is 5 obviously important because as we have continued to 6 meet with staff as we have been before the Plan 7 Commission a number of times , we are listening; but as 8 I pointed out in previous conversations , the amount of 9 flood plain on this property and to a degree which the 10 ditch has to be improved to make this property possible 11 has put constraints on this property that we as owners 12 and planners have had to develop with. So we are 13 hoping in terms of this last step, that we have come a 14 long way in terms of accomplishing that . 15 The specifics of this plan still 16 show the 22 acres , 22 and a half acres , of commercial 17 on the corner . We think that is the appropriate point , 18 an appropriate place , to consolidate the commercial . 19 The creek corridor still encompasses approximately 20 90 acres , and we have a total of just over 100 acres of 21 open space between the high and dry park district , the 22 new school district site , the storm water retention 23 areas and the creek corridor renovations . So of our 24 300 acres , approximately 100 acres is within the open DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 15 1 space of that property. 2 We have a number of single-family 3 parcels . We have a parcel to the north of the school 4 site . We have a single-family neighborhood south of 5 the school site , and we additionally have a 6 single-family neighborhood south of the creek along 7 Route 47 . 8 Those parcels of single-family land 9 also equate to approximately 100 acres in size , and we 10 have 12 , 000 square foot lots projected in the north 11 neighborhood . We still have 10 , 000 square foot lots , 12 but now they are backing up to either easements , 13 schools or buffers on the other two remaining 14 single-family pods . 15 The other portion of the plan are 16 the multifamily zones . We have two multifamily pod 17 types in this location south of the commercial adjacent 18 to the school district and on the corner of Cornelius 19 and 47 which we are anticipating a court home type of a 20 product ; and then we have two pods of townhomes , one 21 north of the open space adjacent to the recreational 22 facility and one buffering Route 47 . Those two pods 23 are envisioned to be townhouses . 24 The site data table one at a time DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 16 1 for the numbers is 968 total units on the 300 acres of 2 the property . We feel that those plans - - this plan as 3 shown can be consistent with the comprehensive plan as 4 it is envisioned . 5 As an illustrative drawing, we 6 continue to include in the proposal the redevelopment 7 of the creek corridor, the public or the private 8 facilities in terms of the clubhouse , the park district 9 which will be with this freestanding park at the south 10 of the community on the south side of the ditch and 11 also a park site on the north side . So the park 12 district has their two sites as we have talked about . 13 The balance of the natural planting 14 is in the blue-green areas will be incorporated into 15 our final plans . This is the illustration of that open 16 space , 100 acres as I spoke of earlier . 17 With that , I will complete my 18 presentation, and I can answer questions if you have 19 any. 20 MR . LINDBLOM : Chris , do you have anything 21 to add at this point - - or Mitch. I am sorry. 22 MR . LA FAVE : No . 23 MR . LINDBLOM : Okay. Is there questions or 24 comments from the public regarding Westbury Village? DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 17 1 MR . SPANG : I just want to make sure I 2 understood - - 3 MR . LINDBLOM : Please stand and state your 4 name for the record. 5 MR . SPANG : Oh, yeah. I forgot . I am 6 Jeffrey Spang, S-P-A-N-G. 7 Did I understand that there is 8 100 acres of park around this creek ditch area? Is 9 that correct? 10 MR . LANNERT : The total amount of park 11 space is 102 . 2 acres . It is comprised of the storm 12 water management system, the recreational amenities , 13 the school park site , the park site and the buffer 14 surrounding the property . So it is 100 acres in total , 15 but it is not 100 acres within this corridor . 16 MR . SPANG : When you restated that , I 17 picked up that part of that is storm water management 18 area? 19 MR . LANNERT : Correct . 20 MR . SPANG : And so on the residential area, 21 you are looking at about 200 acres give or take a few 22 and 960 some units? 23 MR . LANNERT : Yes . Well , depending on what 24 you subtract out of your gross or net number, the DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 18 1 development of the single family is approximately 2 100 acres . The development of the multifamily parcels 3 are approximately 75 acres . The commercial site is 4 25 acres , and the balance of that 100 acres to get to 5 the 300 acres is in the open space . Divide it anyway 6 you want . 7 MR . SPANG : In residents , you are about 8 175 acres . Do I have that correct? 9 MR . LANNERT : Correct . 10 MR . SPANG : That is all the questions I 11 have . 12 Can we talk later or right now? 13 MR . LINDBLOM : Go ahead . Make your 14 comments right now. 15 MR . SPANG : 175 acres , 960 odd homes , I 16 calculate something around 2 , 400 people . I am not sure 17 that that is the density that - - I know that is not the 18 density I ' d like to see in Yorkville , and I would also 19 question whether storm water management was a 20 reasonable use for park land or whether that was 21 some - - so I just have to think about that a little 22 bit . Thank you . 23 MR . LINDBLOM : Mitch, do you have a 24 comment? DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 19 1 MR . LA FAVE : Mitch LaFave of Ocean 2 Atlantic . 3 Just a point of clarification, that 4 isn ' t all park district land . That is going to be open 5 space . How much of that is actually land dedicated to 6 the park district is in the neighborhood of 12 . The 7 balance of it is going to be homeowner ' s association 8 that the park district doesn ' t own . 9 There will be a regional trail 10 running through it . I wanted to point out that that is 11 not park district property. 12 MR . LANNERT : The other thing I would add 13 to that - - Chris Lannert - - is that the park district 14 donations will be high and dry and not encumbered with 15 storm water . 16 MR . SPANG : Jeff Spang . So we are 17 talking - - first of all , we don ' t have a park district . 18 For the record, it is not a 19 district . It is a park department . 20 12 acres of park for 300 - - in a 21 300 acre development , is that - - 22 MR . LANNERT : Correct . The balance of the 23 land cash contribution will be paid in cash. 24 MR . SPANG : Okay . Well , as a resident , DepoCourt Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983 -0030 20 1 long-time resident , it looks like a nice development . 2 However, it seems to be a little bit out of whack here 3 as far as I look at it . I ' d like to see more real park 4 and a lower density number of people on that much 5 acreage . That is all . 6 MR. LINDBLOM : Okay. Other comments from 7 the public? 8 MR . PERKINS : My name is Gerry Perkins . I 9 just moved here about six months ago, and I agree with 10 that gentleman . It is a little high density. 11 MR . LINDBLOM : Sir, just for the record, 12 could we get last - - the last gentleman that spoke , 13 could we get your address , please . 14 MR . PERKINS : Sure , 1238 N. Walsh . 15 MR. LINDBLOM : Thank you . 16 Any other comments on this? 17 MR . KUBALA: Move to close the public 18 hearing? 19 MR . STEIN : Mr . Chairman, before you close , 20 may I just make a housekeeping comment? 21 MR . LINDBLOM : Go ahead . 22 MR . STEIN: Once , again, this is Sanford 23 Stein, once , again, on behalf of Ocean Atlantic , the 24 petitioner . I just wanted to make certain that all the DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 21 1 documents that we have presented to you tonight will be 2 accepted into the record at this procedure , a formality 3 we are all going to have to get used to . 4 I would like to comment that in our 5 view, 100 acres of open space is not only consistent 6 with the requirements of the comprehensive plan of this 7 community, it is also very consistent with good 8 planning in our view; and I know that ultimately the 9 Village Board will make that recommendation . This is a 10 rather - - in my opinion, rather generous and 11 appropriate use, and I think frankly very, very 12 beautifully put together . 13 MR . LINDBLOM : Thank you . 14 MR . KUBALA: It ' s been pointed out and we 15 should get some other items covered before we close the 16 public hearing . 17 MR . KRAMER : Yes . I would recommend we 18 have Mr . Schoppe comment during the public hearing, and 19 we can go back during the break and you can ask him 20 anything you ' d like , but I would recommend that . 21 MR . LINDBLOM : Okay. With that , I would 22 ask Mr . Schoppe to give us his summary of his comments , 23 and we should have - - 24 MR . KUBALA: Before he gives his summary, DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 22 1 I ' d like to ask Mr . Schoppe one question; and that is , 2 are your comments addressing the same information that 3 we have been provided either in our packet or tonight 4 or are you addressing previous issues of the drawings? 5 MR . SCHOPPE : The draft of the plans that 6 our comments are on are the plans that were submitted 7 to you at the last meeting . They are dated February 6 8 of 103 . Those are the plans that we had in the office 9 that were provided to us that were available to us at 10 the time we had our reports due . 11 Now, we have received last week, 12 last Friday, a copy of revised plans . Those plans we 13 have not reviewed and we haven ' t provided comments . I 14 know listening to the presentation tonight , some of the 15 issues that we have addressed in our comments have been 16 addressed in the plan that we see tonight . 17 However, the documents that have 18 been submitted tonight that were just passed out , we 19 will review those as document - - 20 MR . KUBALA: What I am trying to avoid is 21 we got into quite a misunderstanding because of the 22 varying generations the staff had, that we had, that 23 was presented, not being consistent with one another . 24 MR . SCHOPPE : Correct . DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 23 1 MR . KUBALA : I think we need to review your 2 comments relative to February 7 . Is it appropriate for 3 us to be addressing new-found information that we just 4 got tonight rather than having it in our packet and 5 having it reviewed by you and the remainder of staff? 6 MR . SCHOPPE : The commission needs to make 7 that decision whether you are comfortable commenting on 8 new information that was brought up tonight . Certainly 9 you can do that . 10 In your packets , there was a letter 11 that was trying to explain - - hopefully it did 12 explain - - that the comments that were submitted for 13 your review were based on the plans we got last month 14 and the new plan that is dated March 4 , of 103 . That 15 was submitted to you only as an FYI document , just for 16 your information . 17 I think included in each of the 18 packets was that letter of clarification . 19 MR . KUBALA : Yes . Unfortunately it didn ' t 20 do anything to clarify it for me . 21 MR . SCHOPPE : What I recommend that we 22 discuss is that the February 1 plan that has been 23 submitted and reviewed; and if there are items that are 24 in these new plans that address some of these comments , DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 24 1 I think we can discuss those . 2 MR . LINDBLOM : I guess I just have a 3 question for Ocean Atlantic . 4 Why are we caught in the same thing, 5 again, with new plans being submitted when the staff 6 hasn ' t had time to review and give us its comments on 7 it? This is about the third time this has happened . 8 MR . STEIN: Again, Mr . Chairman, I think 9 what we have done is an attempt to be responsive to the 10 questions of the Plan Commission and staff have had. I 11 think we are responsive . Correct me if I am wrong 12 because I may still have a little catch-up to do, but I 13 think we have tried to put in some features that have 14 been directly requested of us , and these are not real 15 complex to point out to you so we have done that , and 16 we have answered your questions . 17 I believe , Mr . Schoppe , I haven ' t 18 had an opportunity to formally introduce myself to you 19 other than in this proceeding . The letter that I 20 received which I think is the same one you were 21 referring to comments that these additions - - what you 22 have seen tonight - - are very close , if not exactly 23 what you have asked for . If I am overstating that , I 24 will be the first to stand up and say I am not certain DepoCourt Reporting Service ( 630) 983 -0030 25 1 about it . 2 So, in other words , a few weeks ago 3 when I wasn ' t here and wasn ' t involved, this commission 4 asked certain questions and said please include these 5 things . Tonight ' s plan does that for you . So we are 6 basically saying, Okay. Thank you, very much for 7 pointing out these features you like . Here they are . 8 MR . LINDBLOM : My point is not that you 9 haven ' t done what we have asked. My point is the time . 10 At last month ' s meeting, there were 11 some comments that were made . I fail to see what is 12 wrong with going back to the drawing board, quickly 13 correcting that if that is what your intent is , getting 14 that into Mr . Schoppe so he has his reviews in time for 15 us to get that review in our packet so we can review 16 that . 17 It seems like right now we are going 18 back like one plan behind in the review. Am I correct 19 in this or am I wrong? 20 MR . BAKER : We have been that way through 21 the whole process . 22 MR . LINDBLOM : And I guess that is what I 23 am trying to point out to Ocean Atlantic . That is not 24 the way we care to operate . We are not taking issue DepoCourt Reporting Service ( 630) 983 -0030 26 1 with your plan right now. We are taking issue with the 2 timing of it , of submitting documents for staff review 3 and for that to get into our packets for us to look at 4 as commission members . 5 MR . STEIN : We recognize that . We think 6 that is important . Timing is hard . Again, it is a 7 dance we both have to try to do . 8 If , for example - - I think Mitch is 9 going to add to this in a moment ; but if , for example , 10 you said make a black line red and we did that , is it 11 really necessary - - you have a long agenda . We have a 12 lot of work to do - - for us - - is that something we 13 can, as simple as that , accomplish tonight with the 14 comments of your staff? If we can, we hope to achieve 15 that . If it is more complex, then, of course , we are 16 here to learn . 17 MR . LINDBLOM : I think part of the issue is 18 the number ' s game . It is not something as simple as 19 changing a red line to black and vice versa . 20 MR . STEIN : And I don ' t mean to simplify. 21 I am just trying to make a simple example . 22 MR . CROUCH : Mr . Chairman, I am perhaps 23 going to be - - 24 MR . LINDBLOM : Your name tag is covered by DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 27 1 the way . 2 MR . CROUCH : That is good. 3 I am perhaps going to be way too 4 blunt here . There is nothing more frustrating for this 5 Commission then to come to the meeting after we have 6 done our homework and find that we are going to receive 7 a new set of documents that we haven ' t had an 8 opportunity to review . This is not the first time this 9 has happened. That is frustrating for this Commission . 10 When you say that you have been 11 responsive , you have perhaps been responsive . There 12 are things on this plan that certainly have been 13 requested . They are not responsive in a timely fashion 14 so that this could be reviewed and that review could be 15 in our packet before we come to this meeting . That is 16 what we are asking for so that we don ' t have to play 17 one meeting behind or one set of documents behind . 18 That is frustrating . 19 That is only going to incur the 20 wrath of this Commission because you are asking 21 already - - in spite of the fact , as you say, you have 22 made changes and so forth, you are asking for variances 23 from what we have asked for . 24 MR . LA FAVE : Mitch LaFave with Ocean DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 28 1 Atlantic once , again . 2 If I can make a suggestion, I hear 3 what you are saying; and I can ' t disagree with it . Is 4 it prudent to go back to the February 4 plan and let ' s 5 just discuss that plan? I mean, there is a plan - - 6 essentially it is the same thing except it has a school 7 there . 8 MR . KUBALA : Well , there are big 9 differences in density and everything else because you 10 put the school in there . So why waste time discussing 11 an issue that is no longer germane . 12 Mike , for example, has asked for a 13 road which makes a lot of sense to connect your Unit 2 14 against to your Unit 6 . We don ' t see anything like 15 that . 16 MR . LA FAVE : Well , in all fairness , one of 17 the first things we were told when we came was don ' t 18 cross the creek, no vehicular - - we don ' t want the 19 creek crossed with a vehicular road. 20 Of late which was last Friday I 21 believe , your memo came out that I got it anyway - - 22 that is the first time that I heard about this 23 road-crossing request . 24 MR . BAKER : What road? DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 29 1 MR . SCHILLINGER : Well , perhaps even a 2 walkway or two . 3 MR . LA FAVE : There has always been a 4 pedestrian bridge proposed . 5 MR . SCHILLINGER : Where? 6 MR . LA FAVE : Right near the clubhouse on 7 this version - - Chris , perhaps you can help with where 8 it is , but we have always had a pedestrian crossing . 9 MR . LANNERT : It is in this connection - - 10 MR . KUBALA: Can you point that out , Chris , 11 on that plan? 12 MR . LANNERT : It is supposed to be 13 occurring at the edge of - - 14 MR . KUBALA: But is it on that plan? 15 MR . LANNERT : It is not shown on this plan . 16 The crosshatch for the bridge is not on this plan . 17 MR . SCHILLINGER : There has got to be a way 18 for pedestrians , whether they be school-age kids or 19 adults , to get from say Areas 5 , 6 and 7 , across the 20 creek, through the neighborhood, give them an 21 opportunity to ride their bike or walk to school . 22 MR . LA FAVE : Absolutely. 23 MR . SCHILLINGER : Just give them an 24 opportunity . DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 30 1 MR . LA FAVE : Unfortunately, it is not on 2 the plan . We have always intended - - I think in every 3 discussion we have ever made , we have always intended 4 to have a pedestrian bridge across the street . We are 5 building a million dollar clubhouse - - 6 MR. SCHILLINGER : Not just across the 7 street but from neighborhood - - from here to here . You 8 are showing - - correct me if I am wrong, please , but 9 what you are showing is as a bridge across this way - - 10 MR . LA FAVE : The bridge would go 11 north/south . 12 MR . SCHILLINGER : Where? Can you please 13 show me? 14 MR . LA FAVE : It has to go 90 degrees to 15 the creek . So it is going to be - - using the same 16 plan - - probably in this location . 17 MR . SCHILLINGER : I am sorry . Where? 18 MR . LA FAVE : In this location which would 19 be the closest proximity. 20 MR . SCHILLINGER : But that is a bridge 21 across the creek . Now, where you show - - 22 MR . LA FAVE : That is a pedestrian bridge . 23 MR . SCHILLINGER : That is a bridge? Okay. 24 Now where do you show a walkway or DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 31 1 a trail going from this corner up towards the school 2 and park area? You don ' t . You have to walk through 3 somebody ' s back yard in order to get there . 4 MR . LA FAVE : No, correct . 5 MR . LANNERT : It would come out of this 6 park across this area at the edge . It should be shown 7 here . It is not shown here and then connected to this 8 system at the amenity area . 9 MR . KUBALA: But there is no path there . 10 MR . SCHILLINGER : There is no - - 11 MR . LANNERT : The path will be added to . 12 The path - - in the discussions with the previous plan, 13 it just had been inadvertently left off on this plan. 14 That connection did exist . So that there will be - - 15 MR . KRAMER : Could you identify - - and we 16 have talked about the areas for the reporter - - the 17 pods it is going through or the sections perhaps . 18 MR. LANNERT : The pedestrian path should be 19 coming between the single-family pod, No . 6 , across the 20 creek corridor, adjacent to the eastern side of the 21 multiplex pod No . 8 to the north-south, the spinal 22 boulevard . 23 MR . KRAMER: Thank you, very much . 24 MR . KUBALA: From my perspective and DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 32 1 despite previous suggestions to the contrary, I 2 strongly believe that a road, not a path, needs to 3 exist between the southern units and the northern units 4 that go across Rob Roy Creek . 5 MS . LUCIETTO : He just said something about 6 a memo or something - - 7 MR . LINDBLOM : If I could, I ' d like to get 8 Mike ' s comments into the public hearing right now, and 9 we can come back to this when we address it as a 10 Commission . 11 With that said, Mike , would you 12 summarize for us? 13 MR . SCHOPPE : Sure . Just generally 14 speaking, what they have submitted as part of their PUD 15 request is a concept plan. This is similar to a 16 process that we followed with the Grand Reserve where 17 there is not a preliminary plan being submitted to be 18 included as part of the community . It is a concept 19 plan . 20 If it is approved, then the 21 preliminary plans will be brought back before the 22 Commission . As part of that - - because this will be a 23 concept plan, as part of the final discussions on this , 24 there will be design standards that will need to be put DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 33 1 together . That will be incorporated into and accompany 2 this plan to talk about a series of things , building 3 setbacks , separation between buildings , building 4 materials , perhaps other things that the City may want 5 to incorporate into a review of the ordinance . 6 That is information that you 7 typically might find on preliminary plans ; but without 8 them being on the preliminary plans , we will do that 9 more in a text form and in written form rather than in 10 plan form. That is the summary of our general comments 11 there , that first section. 12 The next step was to look at the 13 February 6 plan and review it against the comprehensive 14 plan . Again, we have had a similar project like this 15 with the Grand Reserve . We did the same thing . We 16 wanted to provide UR analysis on where does the project 17 fit within the comprehensive plan or doesn ' t it , et 18 cetera . 19 MR . LINDBLOM : Mike , excuse me for just a 20 second. 21 Just for clarification, the 22 February 6 plan is a plan without the school on it ; is 23 that correct? 24 MR . LANNERT : That is correct , DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 34 1 Mr . Chairman . I put that one on the board. 2 MR . KING : Is that the one in our packet? 3 MR . LINDBLOM : The one that was sent to you 4 in the packet was the one with the school sent out . 5 MS . LUCIETTO : I didn ' t get those . 6 MR . SCHILLINGER : February 6 is at home for 7 probably 90 percent of us . 8 MR. LINDBLOM : I am just trying to make a 9 point that Mike ' s comments here come from the 10 February 6 , and I believe the only difference between 11 February 6 and the latest plan is the addition of the 12 school site . Is that correct? 13 MR . SCHOPPE : I don ' t know . I haven ' t 14 reviewed that plan . 15 MR . LINDBLOM : You don ' t know. 16 Okay, review of the February 6 17 plan . 18 MR . SCHOPPE : We had talked about the 19 density and the transitional neighborhood that that is 20 part of , and it has certain design standards that are 21 laid out that we measure this against . 22 One of the key areas is the density 23 of the project . We wanted to clarify that . Per the 24 calculations of gross density that are referenced in DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 35 1 the comprehensive plan of the density is 3 . 34 as 2 compared to 3 . 1 as is on the February 6 plan . I think 3 there was an inclusion of the commercial site in that 4 residential density calculation which should not be 5 there . 6 So with the density of 3 . 34 , then it 7 sets up the standards that are in the comprehensive 8 plan . There is other standards that go along with 9 that . How much open space should there be? Given that 10 density, how much of the land areas should be dedicated 11 to open space? How much should be dedicated to 12 single-family attached product , et cetera? 13 Generally the project complies with 14 the comprehensive plan with the exception of the 15 single-family attached product . Based on the density 16 and the open space is consistent with the standards set 17 out in the comprehensive plan, but there is a standard 18 in there that talks about no more than 25 percent of 19 the land area of the project should be in single-family 20 attached type of product . 21 We ran the calculations based on the 22 data that was provided to us on the relative density 23 tabulation; and when we went through those numbers , the 24 density or the area equates to 27 . 9 percent of the DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 36 1 site . So simply we are just off a couple percentage 2 points , and the recommendation there is to bring that 3 down into compliance with a reduction of 8 . 5 acres of 4 the single-family attached product . By reducing it 5 down that amount , it would then comply with that 25 6 percent standard . Okay. 7 MR . KUBALA: Would that 8 . 5 then be open 8 space or dedicated to some other function? 9 MR . SCHOPPE : It could be dedicated to some 10 other function . It could be storm water function . It 11 could be partial single family. It is just to be 12 delineated as multifamily. 13 Now, as they work through those 14 numbers , these numbers are all related to one another . 15 So if one number goes down, another number perhaps goes 16 up . That is all part of the design process , and those 17 numbers can be calculated very easily. 18 As we brought up at the last 19 Planning Commission meeting, the school site was talked 20 about . That was the first time I think that we had 21 heard that the school district was wanting to have a 22 school site . 23 With school sites comes a whole 24 series of things that need to be anticipated. One of DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 37 1 those things is how do people move get to the school , 2 how do the buses get there , the parents get there, et 3 cetera . So there is other - - with the introduction of 4 a new land use , the school , there is some other things 5 that we now have to address ; and circulation obviously 6 is one of the important ones ; and that is the 7 circulation for the school site as well as for now the 8 commercial site that is up at the northeast corner of 9 the site . 10 Those two things are the primary 11 reasons that I think we need to look at a road crossing 12 connecting these two neighborhoods . Now, without that 13 school site before , I think the need for that was 14 diminished; but now it certainly is something that has 15 a heightened need to look at . 16 Keeping in mind what we try to do on 17 projects like this that are surrounded by arterial 18 streets is to keep as much of the traffic within the 19 neighborhood as possible and allow that traffic to move 20 within the neighborhood without having to get out on 21 arterial streets . Thereby, it reduces the traffic 22 flows on those arterial and moving people throughout 23 the community . The more that we can keep the 24 neighborhood traffic off of it , the better carrying DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 38 1 capacity of that road. 2 We have talked about that before . 3 It is general carrying capacity. This road actually 4 would allow that neighborhood traffic to stay within 5 the neighborhood rather than having to use the 6 surrounding arterials . 7 That is a summary of Comments 2 and 8 3 . We talked about last time , the 10 , 000 square foot 9 lots that are shown. I think it is in Neighborhood 10 No . 2 , 10 , 000 square foot lots . 11 Neighborhood No . 1 is 12 , 000 . 12 Neighborhood No . 2 is 10 , 000 square foot lots . 13 MR . SCHILLINGER : So is 6 . 14 MR . SCHOPPE : And 6 as well . As I said, 15 that is in our memo . That is different than most of 16 the single-family lots that we see in town; but in this 17 area as outlined by the comprehensive plan, the 18 transitional neighborhood area, reduced lot sizes is 19 consistent with those planning policies that are 20 addressed in the comprehensive plan . 21 The fundamental policy being the 22 more open space that is provided above what is normally 23 required, there is justification for allowing smaller 24 lot sizes because the trade off with the smaller lot DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 39 1 sizes is not essentially more units . It is more open 2 space . So the fact that there is lots here that are 3 being proposed at less than 12 , 000 square feet I think 4 is consistent with the policies that are established in 5 the comprehensive plan. 6 We talked about last time the 7 commercial that was in the southeast corner of the site 8 on the comprehensive plan. We had discussed that , and 9 I think the Commission was comfortable because of the 10 size of the commercial area at the northwest corner of 11 the site , that trading those commercial areas was 12 acceptable to the Commission. 13 We did have a Park Board meeting . I 14 think that was after that Plan Commission meeting . We 15 talked about some of the park issues and open space 16 issues , and generally the Park Board is satisfied with 17 the size of the parks and the location that they are . 18 We have talked about trail corridors 19 at the very beginning . We have had discussion at the 20 last Park Board meeting about the trail head that is 21 anticipated to be the existing county park because that 22 is not part of the project , but it still looks to be as 23 a trail head; ie , an area where people from outside the 24 area will come and park their vehicles , unload their DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 40 1 bikes and get on this trail system. 2 We want to make sure that people can 3 get to the trail system from that parking area . Two 4 ways to do that was to run through the parking lot with 5 some easements , go along the right of way . The other 6 is to come back south on the south side of the 7 commercial area into an open space corridor and then go 8 west to the trail that would be running north and south 9 at that point . 10 Those things I think were agreeable , 11 one mechanism that was agreeable to Ocean Atlantic to 12 get that into play; and that is the summary of our 13 review comments . 14 MR . DAVIS : Mike, can I ask you a question? 15 Does the open space - - I didn ' t 16 quite catch what you were saying with Sections 2 and 17 6 - - is it - - in the transitional areas , is the open 18 space adequate or enough for the 10 , 000 square foot 19 lots? If these were 12 , 000 square foot lots, would 20 there be less open space? 21 Have they given enough open space 22 to compensate for the 10 , 000 square foot lots? 23 MR . SCHOPPE : I think that is a better way 24 to ask the question . It is more direct . DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 41 1 Yes , with the amount of open space 2 that is proposed here , that is consistent and enough to 3 have 10 , 000 square foot lots . 4 MR . DAVIS : Okay . 5 MR . LINDBLOM : Is there other questions for 6 Mike? 7 Jeff? 8 MR . SPANG : I noticed that on the southern 9 section there , there is an exit on to Route 47 just in 10 the single-family area there where it says No . 6 . 11 Is that - - I guess has that already 12 been approved? Has the state bought off on that ; and 13 if they have not , how would that change this plan 14 because - - 15 MR . SCHOPPE : I haven ' t seen any 16 documentation that shows that IDOT has approved that 17 access point . 18 MR . SPANG : There seems to be only one or 19 access points to that group if they don ' t , you know, 20 approve that . 21 MR. KRAMER : Traditionally, Mr . Spang, IDOT 22 won ' t even look at a concept plan generally speaking . 23 District 3 which handles most of our territory here 24 generally will not give them a sign of yea or nay until DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 42 1 they actually go to hard-line preliminary plan . 2 So they propose it in a concept 3 only to us at the PUD stage . Once they come back for 4 preliminary, if they have a positive from the City 5 Council , then they can go to IDOT for their actual 6 permit ; and frankly if IDOT would not give it to them, 7 then they would have to come in and redesign . 8 MR . LA FAVE : I ' d like to make one other 9 point . 10 Given the fact we have had a rather 11 short window to respond or to think about some of the 12 comments , I guess I would like to say in conjunction 13 with the school site being included which is a later 14 plan after the February 4 date, we would I think be 15 agreeable - - we ' d like at least to seriously explore 16 the option of putting that bridge in with the option of 17 the school to put a vehicular - - replace the pedestrian 18 bridge and put a vehicular bridge over the creek. 19 There is a lot of things that need 20 to be analyzed and given with the flood plain, how much 21 water goes through, what the cost of that is going to 22 be . I think in general , we would be agreeable with the 23 caveat that we do need to analyze that . 24 MR . LINDBLOM : Okay. DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 43 1 (Brief interruption . ) 2 MR . STEIN : I love this little thing in my 3 pocket that makes that work . 4 MR . LINDBLOM : Do we need a short recess? 5 MR . STEIN: I don ' t . 6 I just wanted to comment . It ' s 7 already been stated, this is a concept plan . Many of 8 the details you are looking for and good questions that 9 you have asked us are the kinds of things that we would 10 appropriately and want you to - - that detail is when we 11 come back to you in the preliminary plan stage . I know 12 you won ' t forget them. So we won ' t . 13 But the concept plan stage I 14 think - - again, my introduction to this proceeding but 15 with a lot of experience as I point out to you is no 16 doubt I would hope adequate . I think Mr . Schoppe - - I 17 would like to interpret his comments in saying that we 18 have brought forth to you a good and successful concept 19 plan . The details you want , if we don ' t have them in 20 preliminary stage , I know we will hear from you. 21 MR . SCHILLINGER : Can I just add to what 22 Mr . Schoppe was saying about the single family 6 and 2 23 on the 10 , 000 square foot lots . 24 Again, you do have 100 acres of open DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 44 1 space , park space, school area - - 2 MR . BAKER : Flood plain. 3 MR. SCHILLINGER : - - flood plain, creek 4 corridor, what have you, and it may - - if you encompass 5 all 300 acres or maybe it does justify a 10 , 000 , but I 6 think this panel has stood pretty strong for the last 7 couple of years anyway at least that I know of in not 8 minimizing the 12 , 000 square foot lots with the 9 exception of - - the only time that we have ever given 10 exception to minimizing those lots has been when the 11 lots themselves have backed up to an open space , 12 whether it be homeowner or public land . It appears 13 that they are larger lots . 14 MR . STEIN : Give us a chance to work with 15 your staff on those issues . We hear you on it . 16 MR. SCHILLINGER : I am just giving you a 17 little bit of warning . 18 MR . LINDBLOM : We can come back with 19 further discussion on this if you like after we close 20 the public hearing . Okay. 21 I will ask one more time . Is there 22 any further comments during the public hearing? 23 (No response . ) 24 Okay. Hearing none , I ' d like a DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 45 1 motion to close this portion of the public hearing 2 relative to PC2002 -06 . 3 MS . LUCIETTO : So moved. 4 MR . CROUCH : Second. 5 MR . LINDBLOM : Lucietto, Crouch second . 6 Any further discussion on the 7 motion? 8 (No response . ) 9 Hearing none, those in favor 10 signify by saying aye . 11 (Whereupon, there was a 12 course of ayes . ) 13 MR . LINDBLOM : Opposed? 14 (No response . ) 15 Okay. This portion is now closed . 16 The next public hearing is PC2003 -01 17 for 101 East Somonauk Street , Robert and Molly Stadler . 18 Petitioner ' s have filed an application. I won ' t read 19 all of this . 20 In essence they want to rezone from 21 Yorkville R2 one-family residence , to United City of 22 Yorkville B1 , limited business district . 23 Is there anybody here representing 24 Robert - - or are Robert and Molly Stadler here . DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 46 1 MR . STADLER : Yes , Robert and Molly 2 Stadler . 3 MR . LINDBLOM : Okay . Any comments on this 4 from you? 5 MR. STADLER : Basically at this point , we ' d 6 like to keep our options open. It is right there on 7 the corner . We have a small child . He can ' t go out 8 and play in the back yard. 9 If they widen Route 47 , the 10 preliminary plans that we looked at due to the 11 embankment and the way it slopes down, they are going 12 to take at least a third of the property to make the 13 road itself . It is going to decrease the size of our 14 yard substantially. You can ' t put up any kind of a 15 fence , and it would just make it difficult to make the 16 house desirable as a residence right there . 17 MR . LINDBLOM : Okay . 18 MS . STADLER : Can I say something? 19 MR . LINDBLOM : Molly? 20 MS . STADLER : I just want to say something 21 real quick . I was speaking with the engineers at IDOT 22 over the last three years since we saw the preliminary 23 plans . 24 We have a walk-out basement . So our DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 47 1 back yard is significantly lower, and I have walked it . 2 I have looked at it . They are going to take so much of 3 the back yard . It is not going to work as a residence . 4 We have been there for 5 five-and-a-half years . It is an excellent structure . 6 It is a great house, and we have taken good care of it , 7 and we would love to see it still used because - - we 8 have watched in five-and-a-half years the traffic has 9 increased pretty significantly on 47 , and we know the 10 widening is coming, and it needs to be done, but we 11 would like the chance to be able to make sure that that 12 building could be used as a business . 13 It is really - - it really is pretty 14 ideal for that , probably like something simple . 15 MR. LINDBLOM : Okay. Just for the record, 16 can we identify - - I think I know, but just identify 17 which corner this is on Route 47 . 18 MR . STADLER : It is the northeast corner . 19 MR . LINDBLOM : Northeast corner . Okay. 20 Thank you . 21 Is there anybody here wishing to 22 make public comment on this rezoning? 23 Yes , sir, back over here , and your 24 name? DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 48 1 MR . MILLER : Joe Miller . 2 MR . LINDBLOM : And your address , Joe? 3 MR . MILLER : 106 E . Somonauk . I am across 4 the street , sort of kiddy-corner to them. 5 I have a lot of concerns about 6 personally, of course, property values . I know the 7 expansion is coming . I am really concerned with access 8 on - - Somonauk Street is so busy especially in the 9 mornings and the evening; and with the schools just 10 down the street across 47 , there is a very large amount 11 of pedestrian student traffic , foot traffic , that is 12 through there every single day . 13 The driveway and such is off of 14 Somonauk Street . For cars to be able to turn into and 15 out of the driveway if it does get used as a business 16 is very impractical . It would create even more 17 gridlock in that spot . I don ' t know if there would be 18 plans for an entrance off of 47 which, even there , you 19 have a light and to turn left or right at that spot is 20 actually not conducive to the flow of traffic on to 47 , 21 also . Primarily my concern is for the safety, for 22 pedestrian safety, and actually traffic flow, also . 23 In addition, my own personal 24 trepidation about it , but I did want to make that DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 49 1 known, and I am not sure what kind of time frame we are 2 looking at for expansion of 47 or whether you have 3 anything in mind for a business to be moving in there 4 actually also, whether it is doctor ' s office or 5 anything . 6 MR . STADLER : We did not have any immediate 7 plans to put in a business or for a business or 8 anything like that at this point . 9 MS . STADLER : Not at all . 10 MR . STADLER : We are trying to keep our 11 options open . 12 MR . MILLER : Now, when you say about a 13 third of your lot would be used in the expansion of 14 Route 47 , what third? Do you take a third off your lot 15 from running north and south? 16 MR. STADLER : From running north and 17 south - - 18 MR. MILLER : Is it approaching - - 19 MR . LINDBLOM : One person at a time , 20 please . Finish asking your question first , and then 21 you can respond. 22 MR. MILLER: Take a third of your lot off 23 and you just cut off an end of your house pretty much . 24 So that sort of doesn ' t seem right because you are DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 50 1 speaking to the grade of the land with the walk-out 2 basement how it does go down, too . I know there would 3 have to be fill for 47 , but it sounds like in any type 4 of plan, your house would have to be bought and taken 5 out as part of the expansion . 6 MR . STADLER : The preliminary plan that we 7 had looked at , that showed the road, the property, that 8 they would take would run north and south along 9 Route 47 ; and the road kind of curves there a little 10 bit and so does the property that they take . So it 11 comes about six feet closer along heading east towards 12 our garage ; and then as it goes into the back yard 13 where the curve begins , it also curves in; and down 14 where the slope is and the embankment , that is where it 15 comes in; and we have some bushes there . The bushes 16 will be gone . 17 It would come in. That is where 18 the third of our back yard would be gone , and also we 19 talked with some of the representatives from IDOT and 20 the state and they absolutely have no intention, no 21 plans . They do not deem it necessary to buy our 22 property to complete the construction. 23 MR. MILLER : It seems like you would run 24 into variances to have the structure that close, that DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 51 1 much closer to the road. 2 MS . STADLER: I can answer that . I have 3 spoke with - - I don ' t remember his name - - a gentleman 4 here at the City . Our property would become 5 noncompliant . Therefore , we could not put a fence in . 6 We could not do anything . 7 This is something, if this is 8 rezoned, this is something if we sell or rent , 9 whatever, we can work with it from that . We were 10 simply looking at - - we have spoke with the engineers 11 from IDOT for more than three years now, and they have 12 made it very clear that they have no plans to buy the 13 house or take the house down, and they have already 14 bought a house across 47 from us because we know that 15 they are taking from that side . 16 So we have looked at this for three 17 long years from every option and tried to decide what 18 the best thing to do would be because our first 19 choice - - of course , we wanted to fence the yard and 20 stay. We can ' t . That is a double lot . For us to 21 spend the thousands of dollars to pay for the fence and 22 have it be torn down, we thought that would be crazy. 23 We were just trying to keep our 24 options open and see what else can be done . DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 52 1 MR . MILLER : As part of this zoning, I am 2 not sure about the - - was it B1 or B2 - - is this a 3 single business zoning or can the structure be split up 4 into a number of businesses? 5 MR . LINDBLOM : It is a B1 , limited business 6 district . 7 MR . MILLER : Would that - - I am sorry. I 8 am not up on that as to what can actually go in . 9 MR . SCHOPPE : In the B1 limited business , 10 let me just read through some of the types of uses that 11 would be allowed in that . 12 Antique sales , apartments , single 13 family located in business buildings , bakery, barber 14 shops , bookstore , cafeteria, church, other retail type 15 stores , clothing repair, florist , gymnasium, library, 16 magazine, medical clinic , photography studio, 17 playground, post office, professional office building, 18 restaurants , shoe repairs , those types of uses . 19 MR . MILLER : Okay. 20 MR . LINDBLOM : Does that give you a feel 21 for the - - 22 MR . MILLER: Yes . That is pretty much what 23 I had figured, but I was wondering about - - you know, 24 for the traffic flow and egress from the lot whether DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 53 1 the back would have to be turned into a parking lot or 2 something like that to have access off of 47 because 3 right now with the amount of traffic it gets tight 4 enough to try to even back out or pull out of your 5 driveway. I am sure it is very difficult for you 6 already to try to pull out to even get to 47 with the 7 light there because it has become a main thoroughfare . 8 MR . LINDBLOM : Thank you, very much. 9 MR . MILLER : Thank you . 10 MR . LINDBLOM : Any other comments on this? 11 Mr . Spang? 12 MR . SPANG : My name is Jeff Spang . I live 13 at 907 South Main Street , south end of town; but I own 14 property at 691 North Bridge Street which is one block 15 north and across the street from the Stadlers . 16 We have just recently rezoned, and 17 we see that as really the highest and best use for the 18 property in that neck of the woods . It would not be 19 out of my imagination to see that as part of some type 20 of a business district - - I don ' t know what you call 21 it - - a boutique district , and I certainly would 22 support the Stadlers in their efforts to rezoning . 23 Although you guys do need to think about changing that 24 intersection down there . DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 54 1 MR . LINDBLOM : We will save that for 2 another evening . 3 MR . SPANG : Okay. Thank you. 4 MR . LINDBLOM: Is there any other comments? 5 (No response . ) 6 Hearing none , I will entertain a 7 motion to close this portion of the public hearing . 8 MR . JONES : So moved . 9 MS . LUCIETTO : Second. 10 MR . LINDBLOM : Which one is going to take 11 credit? 12 Baker? 13 MS . LUCIETTO : Who said it? 14 MR . BAKER : It wasn ' t me . 15 MR . KUBALA: Jack Jones . 16 MR . LINDBLOM : The motion has been moved 17 and seconded . 18 Is there further discussion on the 19 motion? 20 (No response . ) 21 Hearing none , those in favor 22 signify by saying aye . 23 (Whereupon, there was a 24 course of ayes . ) DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 55 1 MR. LINDBLOM : Opposed? 2 (No response . ) 3 Motion passed . 4 Our third public hearing is on 5 PC2003 - 02 . The property is at 9818 Route 71 . It is 6 Roy and Susan Greene . Petitioner ' s have filed an 7 application to rezone from Yorkville R1 to Yorkville 8 B1 , limited business district . Again, that address is 9 9818 Route 71 , Yorkville . That is a little ways east 10 of where Route 47 and 71 intersect on the south side of 11 the road . 12 Is there someone here, Roy or Susan 13 Greene , or somebody representing them? 14 MR. ROY GREENE : Yes , Roy and Sue Greene is 15 here . 16 MR. LINDBLOM : Okay. Any comments you 17 would like to make? 18 MRS . GREENE : Well , we bought that property 19 about six months ago because our daughter built a house 20 back in that subdivision behind it . We kind of fell in 21 love with the old Deutschman Place . It is two and 22 one-sixteenth acre . Thinking originally that we would 23 use it for family use, it has worked out pretty well . 24 It needs a lot of improvements . We are about six DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 56 1 months into that . 2 It looks to us , however, that we 3 would be able to use it for a small antique shop . I 4 have been an antique dealer for a couple of years in a 5 booth, and I don ' t see any reason that wouldn ' t work . 6 I have no reason to think that we don ' t have enough 7 parking . The structures on that property are all very 8 sound . We wouldn ' t be in anybody ' s way that we can 9 see . There is plenty of room there . 10 At this point , we are grandfathered 11 in as agriculture ; and we prefer not to put animals on 12 that or continue it at that use ; but if we have to, we 13 may have to do that . We ' d rather use it for a small 14 business . I think that would be better for the 15 community, cause less trouble , cause less noise 16 probably. 17 Anything else you wanted to say? 18 MR . ROY GREENE : No . 19 MR . LINDBLOM : Okay . For the public 20 record, the City staff received today a letter if you 21 will from some area residents ; and I will read this 22 into the record. Plan Commission members have a copy. 23 This is dated March 9 ; "Regarding, 24 concerning property recently purchased house including DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 57 1 small land located at Route 71 and Village View Drive 2 at southeast corner . Owners want to rezone and make 3 into commercial property for antique business . " 4 Point 1 , "Village View Drive is the 5 only street in and out of our residential area . If 6 other traffic is parked on Village View Drive and an 7 emergency would occur, the residents would be trapped. " 8 Point 2 , "Our family and other 9 residents in area purchased homes with the" - - "other 10 residents in area purchased homes with the assumption 11 it was going to be a residential area . " 12 "At this time , we are asking the 13 zoning board to consider keeping the area residential 14 and place commercial property somewhere else in town, " 15 and it is signed by approximately 26 people . 16 Is there anybody else here now that 17 wishes to speak for this? Yes , your name and address , 18 please? 19 MS . CLEMENS : My name is Amy Jo Clemens . I 20 live at 2151 Kingsmill Drive, Yorkville , Illinois . I 21 am also a resident of this subdivision which is Fox 22 Highlands . I am also their daughter who initially 23 brought them to this property when I was building . 24 As Dan Kramer will note , the DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 58 1 entrance to this farmhouse is not from Village View. 2 They actually have an entrance off of 71 where it would 3 go and where they could turn around. There is no 4 entrance presently on Village View Drive . 5 Secondly, they have spent an 6 enormous amount of money on improvements . We have 7 painted the barns . We have sold the silos on the 8 property to put gazebos up and so forth. 9 I don ' t see how it could disturb the 10 subdivision . The closest townhome behind them is 11 two-and-a-half acres behind all of them. The other one 12 is across the street but , again, since the customers 13 would not have to enter off of Village View Drive which 14 seems to be their concern, it would be off of 71 . 15 So I have no problem with this being 16 a member of the subdivision, and I have talked to the 17 developer, Dean and Joe Edemeir, and they don ' t even 18 see a problem with this , and I have talked to recent 19 Realtors in the area who sold me my home , and they 20 don ' t see a problem either . 21 MR. LINDBLOM : Okay. Thank you . 22 Roy, did you have a comment to 23 make? 24 MR . ROY GREENE : Yes , sir . It looks like DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 59 1 they figured on Village View Drive is where people 2 would be parking . Well , along Village View Drive right 3 now there is a fence , and this spring I am planning on 4 putting a fence all the way from the corner of my 5 property all the way back to the end of my property, a 6 spin rail fence, all along Village Drive so people 7 cannot get into my property from that area . So there 8 will be a fence at least two or three-foot high all the 9 way along the side of that property . So there would be 10 nobody parking there to walk into my property because 11 they can ' t do it . The only entrance to our property 12 would be off of Route 71 . 13 MR . LINDBLOM : Okay. Thank you . 14 Another gentleman had his hand up 15 over here? You wish to speak? 16 MR . GAWNE : Mr . Chairman, my name is 17 Charles B . Gawne . I own the townhome closest to his 18 property. I would like to ask you a few questions . 19 No . 1 , between the end of your 20 stakes and my property, who owns that property? You 21 have obtained that? 22 MR . ROY GREENE : Yes . 23 MR . GAWNE : Okay. That is not - - that 24 would not be two-and-a-half acres . I just wanted to DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 60 1 address that - - 2 MR . ROY GREENE : It is - - 3 MR. GAWNE : And something - - 4 MR . LINDBLOM : Well , let ' s let the 5 petitioner speak and keep the record clean . 6 MR . ROY GREENE : Okay. Go ahead . 7 MR . GAWNE : You had Jim Olson the surveyor; 8 correct? 9 MR . ROY GREENE : Yes , sir . 10 MR . GAWNE : He is a friend of mine . I 11 talked to him on the phone . 12 I have one question to ask you . 13 Before you decided that you wanted to possibly make 14 this B1 zoning, did you look at the comprehensive plan 15 for the nice City of Yorkville pertaining to the 16 property that you have bought south of 71? Have you 17 looked at the comprehensive plan? 18 MR . ROY GREENE : Yes . 19 MR . GAWNE : And if you have looked at the 20 comprehensive plan, all of us bought in this area 21 thinking that we were going to be residential . 22 There is a few little problems . We 23 have a few issues . If you have looked at the 24 comprehensive plan, I have one question for you . DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 61 1 The property that is east of you on 2 the comprehensive plan, what does that comprehensive 3 plan say? 4 MR . ROY GREENE : I think the property east 5 of me is already zoned business . 6 MR . GAWNE : You think? 7 MR . ROY GREENE : It is . 8 MR . GAWNE : They are putting in residential 9 homes right next to that ; correct? 10 MR . ROY GREENE : Right next to my property, 11 yes . There is two or three residential homes there, 12 yes . 13 MR . GAWNE : Members of the council , we 14 would ask you to postpone this public hearing until 15 next month so we can get a good look at the 16 comprehensive plan and let all the other neighbors so 17 we can all take a good look at it before we can pursue 18 this any further . 19 MR . LINDBLOM: I think we can look at the 20 comprehensive plan right here . 21 MR . GAWNE : We would like to - - 22 MR . LINDBLOM : We have the comprehensive 23 plan here to look at . 24 MR . GAWNE : Sir, we ' d like to obtain a copy DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 62 1 and distribute it to all our neighbors . Could we do 2 that and postpone this public hearing until next month? 3 I don ' t think we are asking for that much? 4 Are you in that much of a hurry to 5 put this business up? 6 MR . ROY GREENE : I would like to get it 7 over with. 8 MR. GAWNE : We are not - - 9 MR. LINDBLOM : I will take your comment in 10 a second . 11 I believe to answer your question, 12 it would be up to the Commission to decide what they 13 want to do, if they want to continue it or not . 14 I saw a gentleman ' s hand over here . 15 Could you please stand and give your name and address 16 first . 17 MR . DAVID GREENE : My name is David Greene . 18 I am actually - - 19 MR . LINDBLOM : I guess did you catch that? 20 MR . DAVID GREENE : David Greene . 21 I was just going to make a couple 22 quick statements and address a couple of issues . One 23 of the issues that he had maintained was that we were 24 kind of encroaching on his property, and some of the DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 63 1 issues at hand that still need to be addressed is that 2 it seems that your driveway and in some of your 3 existing asphalt driveway is actually over on our 4 property line . 5 So there are several issues that 6 have to be addressed, but we haven ' t brought those 7 to - - what I am trying to say is we haven ' t brought 8 those to any real issues . What we are trying to do is 9 work with the residents in that area . This farm has 10 probably been there since the late 19th century. It ' s 11 always been a working farm. We are already zoned to 12 sell produce . All we are asking to do is sell small 13 antiques . 14 So this property has always been a 15 working property. It has been there long before those 16 townhomes ever came in. 17 MR . GAWNE : May I address that? 18 MR . LINDBLOM: Sure . 19 MR . GAWNE : I have lived in this town all 20 my life , pretty much. Deutschman - - I am 38 years old . 21 27 years ago when I was in Boy Scouts , we used to camp 22 there all the time . That was one of the issues why I 23 bought this property. It has great meaning to me . I 24 remember the times that I spent there , two, three times DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 64 1 a year camping out when I was in Boy Scouts . 2 Now, if you think - - 3 MR . LINDBLOM : Mr . Gawne , would you please 4 speed up the process . I don ' t want to belabor this . 5 MR . GAWNE : Mr . Chairman, all I am asking 6 is if the council will consider us postponing this 7 public hearing until next month - - 8 MR . LINDBLOM : We are waiting for you to 9 make your point , and I am ready to address that issue . 10 MR . GAWNE : Okay. 11 MR . LINDBLOM : Let me just ask Mr . Greene, 12 by delaying this a month, would this severely hamper 13 your plans that you have? 14 MR. ROY GREENE : Not really, whatever you 15 decide we will go along with. 16 MR . LINDBLOM : Okay. 17 Amy, do you have something else 18 that is pertinent? 19 MS . CLEMENS : Yes . I ' d just like to keep 20 in mind that this property is by no means going to be 21 dismantled . If you have sentimental value with this 22 property, we ' d like to keep it as is . You know, it 23 does have some sort of value to us as a historical site 24 to a degree . So we are in no way destroying the home, DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 65 1 building up a new one ; and that is just what I want to 2 make clear; and that is why I don ' t oppose it . 3 It is going to be a place where all 4 the neighborhood kids may want to play. My kids are 5 going to be up there quite a bit . So by no means do I 6 want something tacky or gaudy or a huge office building 7 where my children can ' t even go up there and play. 8 MR . LINDBLOM : There is a gentleman with 9 his hand up . 10 MR . HESLOP : Yes , Chairman, I ' d like to 11 bring up discussion on this - - 12 MR . LINDBLOM : First , I ' d like your name 13 and address , please . 14 MR . HESLOP : My name is Ronald Heslop . My 15 name is on the top of that list . I brought it out for 16 the fact of it is - - I watched when I have been home 17 every day - - I am a road driver . I am a common worker . 18 Every day when I am home , I watch a 19 school bus that turns off of 71 down on Village View 20 that actually has to back up on my street . They are 21 going to sit there and tell me that nobody is going to 22 park on Village View. I am sorry. 23 Sir, have you ever been to an 24 auction? They park wherever they can the closest . I DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 66 1 cannot endanger the children in our neighborhood . I 2 cannot put that school bus driver in that position . I 3 drive for a living, sir, and this is something I wanted 4 to bring up also, and I think they are not looking at 5 this . They are - - I don ' t understand . 6 It is a beautiful home there because 7 I met the people before they sold . I really didn ' t 8 have any idea that they were selling . We bought there 9 it would be a year ago next month in April . We bought 10 there assuming like a lot of people that are here and 11 at home - - I got professional people , doctors , lawyers 12 that could not make it here tonight - - they assumed the 13 same thing we did . This was going to be a residential 14 area . 15 It doesn ' t matter if it is a small 16 little dinky antique shop to a gigantic . It is still a 17 business , sir, and I don ' t want to put our children or 18 anybody else in this situation . I think this should be 19 left as is , as a residential area ; and if the gentleman 20 here - - I probably will not be able to make next 21 month ' s meeting; but if he is asking for it , I would 22 sure appreciate you give it to him. 23 MR . LINDBLOM: Okay. I am going to - - the 24 gentleman back here , is there a point that hasn ' t been DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 67 1 made yet? I don ' t want to keep getting the same ones 2 over and over and over. 3 MR . PERKINS : My name is Gerry Perkins and 4 I live downwind or upwind as you like . I ' d much rather 5 see a nice boutique or a little antique shop there . I 6 go by there three or four times a day on my way to and 7 from Aurora ; and I ' d rather that than have to smell 8 some pigs or chickens . I can tell you that much. 9 Thank you . 10 MR . LINDBLOM : Amy, you have one more shot . 11 MS . CLEMENS : Well , just to address his 12 concern, my son is one of those children that get on 13 the bus down at the corner of Village View and 14 Kingsmill , and I am the one who fought for that because 15 the children were being picked up on Route 71 . I went 16 down to the principal and I explained it . So, of 17 course , my son is my No . 1 concern . 18 As far as that goes , again, I have 19 no problem. 20 MR . LINDBLOM : Okay. I am going to ask the 21 Commission whether they wanted to entertain the request 22 of postponing this public hearing until next month . 23 The way I ' d like to do it is if 24 somebody wishes to do that , I would entertain a motion DepoCourt Reporting Service ( 630 ) 983 -0030 68 1 to that effect . Hearing no motion or if not passing 2 successfully, I would assume we are going to close this 3 public hearing tonight . Is that clear to everybody 4 what I am asking? 5 At this point , is there somebody who 6 wants to make a motion to postpone the public hearing 7 until next month? 8 MR . JONES : I will . 9 MR . BAKER: Second. 10 MR . SCHILLINGER: I will second . I don ' t 11 have a problem with - - if there is other people - - if 12 this seems to be a larger issue than what has been 13 brought up tonight , I have no problem with waiting one 14 more month . 15 MR . LINDBLOM : The motion has been made and 16 seconded. 17 Is there further discussion on the 18 motion? 19 (No response . ) 20 Hearing none, those in favor 21 signify by saying aye . 22 (Whereupon, there was a 23 course of ayes . ) 24 MR . LINDBLOM : Opposed to the motion? DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 69 1 (No response . ) 2 Okay. This hearing will be 3 postponed then until - - 4 MR . KRAMER: Get an exact date . 5 MR. LINDBLOM: We will get a date for you, 6 second Wednesday in April . 7 I think as commission members , you 8 all heard what some of the arguments are here . I would 9 encourage you to drive out there if you haven ' t 10 already, maybe study property lines , where a school bus 11 might be , et cetera, et cetera, so we can rule on and 12 make an intelligent decision on this . 13 Mr . Greene, did you have something 14 else? 15 MR. ROY GREENE : No, if they want to go on 16 the property, they are more than welcome to go on the 17 property, walk it , see whatever they want to see . 18 There is nobody there , just drive right in the driveway 19 and walk the property, do whatever you want to do 20 there . 21 MR . LINDBLOM : Okay. Thank you . 22 Yes, sir? 23 MR . DAVENPORT : My name is Craig Davenport . 24 I recently purchased, you know, the property right DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 70 1 across from I guess where they want to have the 2 boutique going in there . 3 To me, my only concern is a traffic 4 issue . I mean, whatever they want to do, I mean - - in 5 my eyes , it is fine because I mean everybody is out to 6 make money no matter what . Just the issue of parking 7 and really traffic at least from my concern anyway 8 because I do live right across - - directly right across 9 on the corner of Village View and 71 . 10 MR . LINDBLOM : I understand your concern. 11 We are going to take this up, again, at next month ' s 12 meeting . 13 Okay. There will be no action taken 14 on this . In fact , it probably won ' t even be discussed 15 any further tonight . 16 Just for the record, I notice here 17 that our next public hearing is 2003 -03 . That is on 18 Pride Pantry located at 302 North Bridge, and they are 19 requesting to go from B2 to general business district 20 for a gas-petroleum service station . My understanding 21 is that they are asking if we can continue this 22 meeting, the discussion on the Pride Pantry, until the 23 May 14 , 2003 meeting . 24 If that is agreeable , can we have a DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 71 1 motion to that effect? 2 MR. KUBALA: So moved . 3 MR . SCHILLINGER : Second . 4 MR . LINDBLOM : Kubala, seconded by 5 Schillinger . 6 Motion moved and seconded. Is 7 there further discussion on the motion? 8 MR. CROUCH : Just a point of clarification . 9 They are asking for a continuance until May, not until 10 April? 11 MR . LINDBLOM : That is what Tony indicated. 12 MR . CROUCH : That is fine . 13 MR . LINDBLOM : The issue here as I 14 understand, the State of Illinois is going to be taking 15 some property; and they are having to go back and do 16 some re-engineering to if it is even possible to get 17 the tanks properly located. 18 MR . CROUCH : That is fine . 19 MR. LINDBLOM : They just recently engaged 20 the services of engineering . They haven ' t had time to 21 do it . Okay. 22 Is there a motion then to close the 23 public hearing? 24 MS . LUCIETTO : So moved . DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 72 1 MR . SCHILLINGER : Second . 2 MR . LINDBLOM: You would have to have the 3 longest name of anybody here, too . 4 Motion has been moved and seconded 5 to close the public hearing . Any further discussion on 6 the motion? 7 Those in favor signify by saying 8 aye . 9 (Whereupon, there was a 10 course of ayes . ) 11 MR . LINDBLOM: Public hearing is now 12 closed . 13 A request has been made to change 14 the order to let some of these other folks on rezoning 15 go ahead . Is there any objections on that at all from 16 Ocean Atlantic? 17 MR . LA FAVE : No . 18 MR . LINDBLOM: Anne, would you put that 19 into a motion to change the order? 20 MS . LUCIETTO : Sure . I make a motion to 21 change the agenda so that PC2003 -01 under new business 22 comes before PC2002 - 06 , Westbury Village so they don ' t 23 have to sit through our discussions with Ocean 24 Atlantic . DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 73 1 MR . GREEN: Second . 2 MR . LINDBLOM : Motion has been made to 3 change the agenda . Any further discussion on the 4 agenda? 5 Those in favor signify by saying 6 aye . 7 (Whereupon, there was a 8 course of ayes . ) 9 MR . LINDBLOM : Opposed? 10 (No response . ) 11 Motion passes . 12 Okay. We have PC2003 -01 , the 13 rezoning of 101 East Somonauk Street . Comments from 14 Commission members? 15 MR . JONES : I have historically been 16 against letting residential go to business , but we have 17 already set a precedent . We have done it , and I think 18 this is a perfect fit to let it happen . 19 MR . BAKER : Not only that , we also 20 addressed it in our comp plan . 21 MR . LINDBLOM : Could you speak up so we can 22 hear you . 23 MR . BAKER: No, she scares me . 24 MR. LINDBLOM : Hey, Jeff? DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 74 1 MR . BAKER : Yes , sir . 2 MR. LINDBLOM : Then be quiet , just having 3 fun . 4 Do you have comments? 5 MR . BAKER : Now I forgot . 6 No, I was just saying that that is 7 already addressed in our comp plan . 8 MR . LINDBLOM : As that being business then? 9 MR . BAKER : Correct , keeping the 10 residential look but businesses along 47 . 11 MR . GREEN : In this instance , however, 12 those other ones already had access to Route 47 . This 13 one does not . 14 MR. BAKER : That I don ' t believe is correct 15 because we did get a house on the corner of the park 16 there . They wanted to go B3 , but they ended up using 17 it as a rental house now. They were going to put a 18 Realtor . They dropped it . We didn ' t deny it . They 19 just dropped it . 20 MR. GREEN : Which corner are you talking 21 about? 22 MR . BAKER : The brick house they painted 23 white and green . 24 MR . GREEN: But that has a driveway out - - DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 75 1 MR. LINDBLOM : That has got a driveway off 2 of 47 . 3 MR. BAKER : Well , the house is on 47 ; and 4 when you read our comp plan, our comp plan doesn ' t say 5 exactly it has to be on 47 . It just wants to keep - - 6 MR . SCHILLINGER : It is the corridor . 7 MR . BAKER : - - the corridor of 47 8 residential in appearance but yet move to business . 9 MR. GREEN: I understand what you are 10 saying, but I am just saying the traffic issues and 11 stuff have already been addressed as far as the lineup 12 on Somonauk at school hours , before school , after 13 school , stuff , you know . 14 MR. BAKER : Anywhere on 47 during school 15 hours is a 20 -minute trip . 16 MR . GREEN: Right . It seems to me if there 17 is going to be a business , it ought to have some way to 18 get on and off of 47 instead of using Somonauk . I just 19 think it is a - - 20 MR . KUBALA: I think we have got the 21 essence of direction that that property is going to be 22 taken when we agreed to changing to business on the 23 other side of the street a little bit north. One of 24 the caveats that was provided there was that people get DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 76 1 together and provided like a secondary street or 2 secondary pathway. 3 I would believe that as other 4 properties going north from that tend to want to go 5 into this business condition, that we put the same 6 caveat or people thinking that same way puts that same 7 caveat on that . So that you don ' t have an access to 8 necessarily on Somonauk but that you have like a 9 frontage street or a frontage alley or something that 10 allows property or businesses to go around. 11 MR . BAKER : Well , I am a little confused by 12 that comment then . 13 What you are saying is you want 47 14 access , but you don ' t because you want a frontage road. 15 So it is not technically 47 . Is that what you are 16 saying? I am confused. I just want to understand . 17 MR . KUBALA: Could you explain it for me . 18 MR . CROUCH : I think - - I don ' t mean to put 19 words in Mr . Kubala ' s mouth, but I believe what he is 20 suggesting is the same thing we did suggest a block 21 north and on the opposite side of the road which was 22 some kind of a common entrance and egress as opposed to 23 having each one provide their own entrance and egress . 24 MR. BAKER : I agree with that . DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 77 1 MR . KUBALA: That is what I am proposing 2 that we note if we do make a positive statement to this 3 zoning change , that we put a condition on it or a 4 suggestion on it that a similar type of caveat be 5 attached . 6 MS . LUCIETTO : That an alternative way of 7 accessing the lot is explored - - 8 MR . KUBALA: Yes . 9 MR . GREEN : However, you are not going to 10 be assured that IDOT is going to give you the - - 11 MS . LUCIETTO : You know what , you can 12 almost guarantee that they are not because look at how 13 close it is to the intersection and look at how many 14 are already on that stretch of 47 . Getting those 15 easements to go on to a state highway, they are next to 16 impossible in Yorkville anymore . 17 MR . JONES : So the point of this discussion 18 is? 19 MR . GREEN: So at least our common driveway 20 stuff is probably - - or a common entrance stuff is 21 probably not going to be allowed by IDOT . 22 MR . BAKER : Not off of 47 . 23 MR . GREEN : So where else are you going to 24 go? Off of Somonauk Street , and I just - - DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 78 1 MR . BAKER : Unless you bought the duplex 2 and took it down and came off - - what is that next 3 street , but here you would need two land owners to 4 comply, again . 5 MR . SCHILLINGER : One at a time ; right? 6 MR. KUBALA: You count for two . 7 MR. SCHILLINGER : Plain and simple what is 8 going to happen is IDOT is going to take a sizable 9 portion of that property away. They are going to put 10 the road pretty close to that house making that house 11 actually fairly - - I don ' t know if you want to say 12 unsafe for residential - - okay, and if I am not 13 mistaken just to the north of you is - - the adjacent 14 property to the north of you is two sets of duplexes , 15 okay, a steep embankment or a steep downgrade going 16 down in there , running all the way through to the next 17 street? 18 What is going to happen in that 19 area? What we are trying to do is get business along 20 the 47 corridor . Hopefully or possibly north of them 21 is going to become business zoned also . Perhaps those 22 two properties will become - - will get bought and used 23 together for some sort of business zoning . The 24 structures may or may not be torn down and something DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 79 1 else put there . Why not? That is it . 2 MR . LINDBLOM : Well , I don ' t think there is 3 a lot of disagreement . 4 MS . LUCIETTO : No . 5 MR . BAKER : No . 6 MR . CROUCH : I think the essence of - - I am 7 going to echo some of what Brian said from the 8 standpoint that the essence is , when they widen 9 Route 47 - - it is not an " if , " it is a "when. " 10 When that occurs , this property as a 11 residential is not going to be viable . At which point , 12 having present zoning doesn ' t really serve the present 13 owners at all . 14 MS . LUCIETTO : Right . 15 MR . CROUCH : So from the standpoint of 16 being able to recoup something of their investment , a 17 business zoning at least gives them an opportunity. 18 Now, they were going to still - - as 19 I think they probably - - if they have been exploring 20 this for three years , they know the multitude of 21 problems present themselves in terms of access to 47 , 22 in terms of access to parking and so forth, even for a 23 business use and so forth; and I think that those 24 things all withstanding, that it is still from the DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 80 1 standpoint of fairness ; and I think that is what it 2 comes down to; and it is simply a question of fairness . 3 Giving them at least the opportunity to do something 4 with this property as opposed to have it just simply 5 become an untenable piece of property where they can ' t 6 even live and no one could really is the right thing to 7 do . 8 MR . LINDBLOM : You have to have a motion - - 9 MR . JONES : My next step is make a motion . 10 MR . KUBALA: Mr . Chairman, I will make a 11 motion that we grant the change in zoning from R2 to B1 12 for the property in question. 13 MR . DAVIS : Can I add one thing before we 14 go through this motion? 15 MR . CROUCH : I will second the motion. 16 MR. LINDBLOM : We have a second. 17 Bill , you have a comment? 18 MR . DAVIS : Yes , the plan that was here, 19 the gentleman here earlier, has some concerns with a 20 business being next to his home which I can understand 21 that . 22 Is there some way that , if this 23 goes to business , there might be a fence or something 24 erected to protect the value of his property? DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 81 1 MR . LINDBLOM : Well , if I understand right , 2 his address is 206 which means he is - - 3 MR. SCHILLINGER : 106 . 4 MR . LINDBLOM : 106 which means he is across 5 the street . 6 MR . DAVIS : He is across the street - - 7 MR . SCHILLINGER: And down a couple of 8 houses I believe . 9 MR. DAVIS : What about the guy who is next 10 door? 11 MS . STADLER: We have spoken to him, and he 12 is behind us . He understands . He lives there, too . 13 He hears the traffic . 14 MR . KRAMER : Because it is a change of 15 zoning, they will be subject to all of our bulk 16 requirements as far as landscape ordinance, parking and 17 so on . 18 MR. DAVIS : So that is addressed there, 19 great . 20 MR . KRAMER : Absolutely, right . If they 21 want to come in with a permit , they would get the feel 22 of those ordinances ; and, Bill , they will get how many 23 parking they need based on how many square feet . 24 MR . SCHILLINGER : In other words , it would DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 82 1 be tough to put a business in there right now. If - - 2 when 47 is widened, it would actually be tough to put a 3 business in there just for the sake of the parking 4 area . 5 MR. KRAMER : Depending on how many square 6 feet for business , Brian. Actually it may be like an 7 office use than an actual traditional retail . 8 MR . SCHILLINGER : So it is not an issue 9 really? 10 MR . KRAMER : They would have to deal with 11 those things as well as like I say landscaping . 12 MR . CROUCH : In all likelihood, it couldn ' t 13 be used as a business ; correct? 14 MR. KRAMER : It would be very difficult 15 unless it is like a one or two-person office perhaps 16 and they wouldn ' t have to have any parking required, 17 and it would involve almost no changes to the 18 structure . 19 MR . LINDBLOM : Is there any further 20 discussion on the motion? 21 (No response . ) 22 Hearing none, I will attempt a roll 23 call . 24 Green? DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 83 1 MR . GREEN : No . 2 MR . LINDBLOM : Schillinger? 3 MR. SCHILLINGER : Yes . 4 MR . LINDBLOM : Lucietto? 5 MS . LUCIETTO : Yes . 6 MR . LINDBLOM : Jones? 7 MR . JONES : Yes . 8 MR . LINDBLOM : Holdiman? 9 MR. HOLDIMAN: Yes . 10 MR . LINDBLOM : King? 11 MR. KING : No . 12 MR . LINDBLOM: Baker? 13 MR . BAKER: Yes . 14 MR . LINDBLOM : Kubala? 15 MR . KUBALA: Yes . 16 MR . LINDBLOM : Crouch? 17 MR . CROUCH : Yes . 18 MR . LINDBLOM : Davis? 19 MR . DAVIS : Yes . 20 MR. LINDBLOM : Lindblom? Yes . 21 The yeses have it . 22 MR. KUBALA: Yes, they do . 23 MR . LINDBLOM : I believe our last item then 24 is back to Westbury Village . DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 84 1 Comments from the Commission 2 members? 3 Before I do that , Mike , do you have 4 any further comments that you would like to make? 5 MR . SCHOPPE : No further comments as long 6 as we have no further questions . 7 MR . LINDBLOM: Mike? 8 MR . CROUCH : I am going to start with the 9 school site because naturally that is what I would 10 start with . 11 In terms of the topographical lines , 12 I am having a little trouble . Is this a low point or a 13 high point on the property? 14 MR . LANNERT : It is probably intermediate . 15 As you can see right now, the school site is right in 16 here . It is on - - 17 MR. CROUCH : So water flows down toward 18 that , the northwest - - 19 MR . LANNERT : Yes , from the north side of 20 the school site , the water will shed from the north 21 part to the south part in that 20 acres ; but it is 22 not - - it is more flat than it would be low. 23 MR . CROUCH : It is not the lowest portion 24 of property where it will collect water? DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 85 1 MR . LANNERT : It is part of the higher part 2 of the whole property. 3 MR. LINDBLOM : Chris , regarding the school 4 site , I know you gave us this concept - - 5 MR. LANNERT : Correct . We just wanted to 6 make sure that in the 12 acres that we were providing 7 that the facilities would fit . 8 MR . LINDBLOM : Is the facilities that you 9 have here acceptable to the school? Again, I am 10 talking concept only. 11 MR. LANNERT : We haven ' t had a chance to 12 discuss that with them. It is an example that on 13 12 -acre school sites with the joint use of the park 14 site along the collector, the north-south arterial 15 road, the pieces fit ; but we have not discussed that 16 with the park district , nor the school district . 17 MR . LINDBLOM : The school district 18 requested a 12 -acre site? 19 MR . LANNERT : Yes . 20 MR. CROUCH : Actually having had 21 conversations with the school district , the school 22 district actually would like a little more space than 23 that . This is a little shy. I am simply relaying that 24 message . DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 86 1 MR . SCHILLINGER: A little shy meaning? 2 MR. CROUCH : Closer to 15 acres than 12 . 3 MR. BAKER : Is it not 20 acres that the 4 school prefers to have a site? Have they come up 5 with - - 6 MR . CROUCH : They would prefer it . 7 MR. BAKER : That is a number I keep 8 hearing . I am just asking you as a school board 9 liaison, is 20 acres the site that they desire for a 10 building? 11 MR . CROUCH: It is . The issue here would 12 be when you talk a smaller site , you are obviously 13 limiting yourself to an elementary school building of 14 some type . When you start talking about a middle 15 school or a high school site, you need more space . 16 MR. JONES : If we ask for more acres , would 17 that fit into making the density or given the density 18 that we were looking for? 19 MR. SCHOPPE : If we ask for eight more 20 acres , was that your question? 21 MR . JONES : No . If we told them to include 22 eight more acres in that site , would that get them to 23 the density we were looking for? 24 MR . KRAMER : He is answering your question DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 87 1 about the space . 2 MR . LANNERT : This school park site is 3 20 acres . We are going to - - 12 acres is going to the 4 school site , and the balance is the park site over here 5 which is in this 12 -acre number and approximately - - 6 MR . BAKER : I don ' t understand. 7 MR. LANNERT : So the eight acres is here . 8 MR . SCHILLINGER : This is a 20-acre site? 9 MR . LANNERT : It is a 20-acre combined 10 school site . It is a 12 -acre school site . 11 MR . DAVIS : So if you are pointing to this 12 area up here , part of that is park; and part of that is 13 school? 14 MR. LANNERT : Yes . We are not trying to 15 define that . We are just saying that this would be the 16 school part of the site . This would be the park site 17 of the site . This would be access to the park here and 18 access to the school here or off the boulevard, and 19 then we are just illustrating how we feel it would 20 work . We have not discussed with the school - - 21 MR . SCHILLINGER : It is wonderful to 22 combine the sites because you can get year-round use 23 out of it that way. 24 However, what you are actually DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 88 1 saying is of the 12 . 5 acre site, only, what , two-thirds 2 of that is actual school site? 3 MS . LUCIETTO : No . 4 MR. CROUCH : No because he is actually 5 including that - - he is including that whole parcel 6 there as being 20 acres . 12 . 5 of it is school site . 7 7 . 5 of it is park site . 8 MS . LUCIETTO : So if the school district 9 wants 20 acres , then your parks land donation is going 10 to go down substantially. 11 MR . LANNERT : We wouldn ' t have the park 12 donation at that location, that is correct . 13 MR. LINDBLOM : I guess I am a little 14 confused. What did the school actually ask for? Did 15 they ask for 12 or did they ask for 15 or ask for 20? 16 MR . LA FAVE : I had the meeting with the 17 superintendent . He didn ' t say exactly what he wanted . 18 He said that - - what his direction was to secure sites 19 for schools . It helped me, but does - - whatever our 20 requirement is , whatever our density is at , I believe 21 our requirement is around 20 acres for land cash under 22 the ordinance . 23 Our understanding is that really the 24 only thing you can fit on a parcel that size or smaller DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 89 1 is an elementary school . You need something larger 2 28 acres I think is the number for a middle school - - 3 MR. CROUCH : You can fit a middle school on 4 20 acres . It is nice if it is larger . 5 MR. LA FAVE : I thought it was 28 . 6 MR . CROUCH : I am not familiar with that . 7 MR . LA FAVE : Is there a statue or - - 8 MR. CROUCH : I don ' t believe there is 9 actually a state statute . 10 MR . KRAMER: It is tied into population, 11 and it is recommended by the Illinois education. 12 MR . LA FAVE : My understanding in talking 13 with the superintendent was that this was going to 14 be - - if he was going to - - if , in fact , he was going 15 to accept this site, it was going to be an elementary 16 school site . 17 MR . CROUCH: And if it was going to be an 18 elementary school site - - and I don ' t think I am 19 quoting him improperly here - - 15 acres high and dry 20 would be perfect . 21 MR. LA FAVE : Okay. We are willing to 22 relook at the plan. 23 MR. CROUCH : That was the meaning behind my 24 question in terms of - - DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 90 1 MR . SCHILLINGER : Mike , more than likely, 2 they would be looking for an elementary site in this 3 area? 4 MR. CROUCH : More than likely, they would. 5 MR. SCHILLINGER : So 15 acres would be 6 sufficient? 7 MR. CROUCH : Yes . 8 MS . LUCIETTO : I ' d like to go back to a 9 question we were talking about earlier . 10 Someone said something about getting 11 a memo about a road crossing the creek . Can you tell 12 us about that , one of you? 13 MR. LA FAVE : It is Mike ' s comments 14 actually that spoke to - - 15 MS . LUCIETTO : It was comments then, not a 16 memo? 17 MR . SCHOPPE : Well , it is a comment in our 18 memo . 19 MS . LUCIETTO : That is fine . It sounded 20 like a special memo . 21 The other question I had is on the 22 south of this property, what is in the comprehensive 23 plan for that? 24 MR . SCHOPPE : On the south side of the DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 91 1 property? 2 MS . LUCIETTO : Yes . There is the little 3 nitch there and then across the road . I believe it 4 goes all the way down to Cornelius . 5 MR . SCHOPPE : The extreme southeast corner 6 is identified as commercial on the comp plan. 7 MR. LA FAVE : Yes , it is . 8 MS . LUCIETTO : I am talking about across 9 from that . 10 MR. SCHOPPE : Commercial on all four 11 corners . 12 MS . LUCIETTO : How about over here? 13 MR . SCHOPPE : Transitional . 14 MR . CROUCH : Transitional neighborhood . 15 MR. SCHILLINGER : Who owns that property 16 right there? Is that still Undesser property? 17 MR . SCHOPPE : It is identified on the plat 18 that it is owned by McArthur . 19 MR . SCHILLINGER : And they also own all the 20 property to the west of this . 21 MR . SCHOPPE : No, I believe the McArthur 22 lives on the - - they own the farm there . It is used 23 for horses . 24 MR. LA FAVE : I think that ends right here . DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 92 1 MS . LUCIETTO : So it is just west . 2 MR . KRAMER : It is a family named Bennett , 3 and then you get up to a parcel that is owned by 4 Rosenthal and then you have Aurora Blacktop and you 5 have the old dump site in there as well . 6 MR . LINDBLOM : I hate to just keep beating 7 a dead horse on this , but I am concerned about the 8 precedent that we are setting allowing 10 , 000 square 9 foot lots without adjacent green space . 10 MR . SCHILLINGER: Even without adjacent 11 green space , we shouldn ' t be allowing it . That is an 12 exception we have allowed in the past . We don ' t look 13 for it , but we have allowed it . 14 MR . LINDBLOM : We have allowed when there 15 has been adjacent green space . I believe that is the 16 only time we have done it . 17 Jack? 18 MR . JONES : I am a little torn . On one 19 hand I feel like telling them just - - I feel that they 20 keep bumping into our limits or keep trying to push, 21 push, push, and I feel like saying just wipe the slate 22 clean and start all over, again, because I don ' t like 23 any of it . 24 On the other hand, it is a DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 93 1 transitional area . I still don ' t like the 2 10 , 000 square foot lots . 3 MR. KUBALA: We created something that was 4 new when we went through the last iteration of the 5 comprehensive plan we didn ' t have before that was sort 6 of tried to address this type of issue ; and while it is 7 smaller than we saw before and I have several problems 8 with what I still see here, it does fit with the 9 suggestions that Mike Schoppe makes within what we have 10 designated pink to represent on our comprehensive plan; 11 and I would tend to support that because it does 12 maintain enough open area to accommodate something 13 which is somewhat new; but I have some other problems 14 with it . 15 MR. LINDBLOM : Okay. Well , go ahead. 16 MR . KUBALA: Area 5 bothers me to no end 17 when you have 147 units and one road coming out of 18 there . 19 MR . LANNERT : We will continue to work with 20 staff . These are not specific plans for that 21 development . 22 MR. KUBALA: We have had all sorts of 23 problems with long cul de sacs and long things that 24 have one exit . This really seems to be - - DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 94 1 MS . LUCIETTO : That is a bad one . 2 MR. KUBALA: - - stretching the limit well 3 beyond what it should be . 4 MR. CROUCH : Before you leave that issue , I 5 draw attention to the portion in Mike Schoppe ' s memo 6 that deals with the fact that we recommended the area 7 for attached product . We reduce by approximately 8 8 . 5 acres , and so that issue needs to be addressed 9 somewhere . You are looking at , not only Area 5 , but 10 all of your areas where you are talking about attached 11 housing of some type . 12 You are looking at pretty 13 substantial densities that I think need to be addressed 14 as well , and the amount needs to be reduced. 15 MR . KUBALA: I think there is a limit to 16 what should be accepted as cash and what should be 17 provided as land, and this makes this type of plan very 18 difficult even though it is starting to move in a 19 direction of what the comprehensive plan . I still 20 think it fails to meet the intent that we established 21 when we set our new comprehensive plan together . 22 MR . LA FAVE : Could I get a clarification 23 on that statement about the land versus the cash? Was 24 that in respect to the park land with the land cash DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 95 1 ordinance? 2 I mean, I didn ' t understand that . 3 MR . KUBALA: My preference would be to see 4 more land and less cash . 5 MR. LA FAVE : Well , but our intent is and I 6 thought our direction was in general is 50 percent 7 land, 50 percent cash . That was what was directed to 8 us by the park district . 9 MR . LANNERT : For the park district 10 portion - - 11 MR . SCHOPPE : Typically in projects like 12 this , the City has been looking for and recommending 13 that of the total park obligations for the land cash 14 ordinance , that half of that be provided in land and 15 approximately the other half - - 16 MR . KUBALA: Then I withdraw that comment . 17 MS . BROWN: So with changing the school 18 site, that will change the contribution to the park 19 site? 20 MR . LINDBLOM : Just for the record - - 21 MS . BROWN : Sorry, Laura Brown, executive 22 director, Park Board . 23 MR. LINDBLOM : Thanks , Laura . 24 MR. SCHOPPE : Laura made the comment with DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 96 1 the change in the school site , that may have an impact 2 in the park requirement . That is true . If there is 3 changes to the unit count of the number of people, 4 then, yes , there is changes to the requirement . 5 MS . BROWN : Or the size of the school site . 6 If the size of the school site goes up to the 15 acres , 7 that reduces that park site and that location. 8 MR . SCHOPPE : It reduces the site . It 9 doesn ' t reduce the obligation that is established by 10 the ordinance . 11 MS . BROWN : Correct . 12 MR . LANNERT : Mike, on those figures that 13 we sent you with the revised plan, we did obviously 14 lose single-family units in order to accommodate the 15 joint school park site ; but those numbers as they 16 showed on that table fractionally depleted . I think it 17 went from 12 . 9 to 12 . 7 or something like that . 18 So within a tenth or two, one way or 19 the other within a half a percentage or two, I think we 20 are very, very close to the comprehensive plan; and I 21 think that by combing through it one more time with the 22 staff , we will be able to make that . 23 MR . BAKER : You were first . 24 MR. CROUCH : Thank you . DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 97 1 Mr . Chairman - - or I can address 2 you . 3 Do we have a copy of this plan? 4 MR. SCHILLINGER : We just got it tonight . 5 MR. LA FAVE : You don ' t have one today. 6 MR . GREEN: That was February 6 . 7 MR. CROUCH : Because is that the same 8 configuration of our Pod 5 that we have on our current 9 plans? 10 MR . BAKER: No . 11 MR . LANNERT : The changes that were made 12 between these plans and - - see , here ' s the difficulty. 13 We submitted copies of this revised plan. That is why 14 you have it in your packet . 15 Mike had more time to review this 16 plan . So he is reviewing this plan even though this is 17 the plan that came out in the packets . As you can see, 18 many things are the same . This entry point and this 19 loop in this portion of the cul de sac with the school 20 site is , in fact , the same portion coming in here with 21 the cul de sac . 22 So while they are different , I am 23 not saying they are not , see that they are different ; 24 but in many cases , they are very similar in terms of DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 98 1 the plans . 2 MR . CROUCH : That notwithstanding, I am 3 going to renew my earlier comment . You know, we have 4 apples and oranges here, and we are attempting to make 5 fruit salad, and I don ' t find that that really works 6 very well . 7 It would be really, really helpful 8 to this commission if we were all looking at the same 9 thing for review and not looking at two different 10 iterations here and another one there . I mean, that 11 makes our task even harder knowing which page are we 12 looking at . 13 MR . LA FAVE : I appreciate that . This is a 14 concept plan, and I guess if we had our druthers , we 15 would like to be able to have a more direct dialog with 16 staff and work through the issues and work to - - our 17 intent is comply with the comp plan, work to comply 18 with the comp plan, and then be able to come back with 19 a preliminary plan that is better defined as the lot 20 sizes , you know, at least calculated out ; and we have a 21 better idea where everything is at . 22 MR. BAKER : Why don ' t we put preliminary on 23 this and start working on it then? Why do we keep 24 calling it a concept? DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 99 1 MR. LA FAVE : That is the stage we are at 2 here . We can ' t move on - - 3 MR. STEIN: We agree . We want to do that . 4 Your procedures require that we first present a 5 concept . 6 At this point , this concept is 7 getting very detailed. 8 MR . BAKER : This concept has gone way past 9 our concept of a concept . 10 MR . SCHILLINGER: Of the concept of the 11 concept . 12 MR . LINDBLOM : So we can all respectfully 13 argue - - I do not agree with that statement . 14 MR . SCHOPPE : I would echo that . 15 MR. LINDBLOM : I do not agree . We are 16 still discussing things that should go into a concept 17 plan . 18 We are telling you one thing in a 19 meeting, and you go back and change it . Again, I come 20 back to the timing of these things . 21 For this meeting tonight , the City 22 did two mailings , the one that we normally do and the 23 one that I got on I think Monday. That must be the one 24 Anne said she didn ' t get it . DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 100 1 I don ' t know why this thing can ' t be 2 done so it is in to meet the City deadlines for when 3 they make their mailings ; and if it is not there , it 4 doesn ' t go to this meeting . It is that plain and 5 simple . 6 MR . SCHILLINGER: We are wasting a lot of 7 time . 8 MR . LINDBLOM : I just think we are spinning 9 our wheels , and you are spinning your wheels , too . I 10 don ' t think it is in anybody ' s best interest . 11 Mike , I like your analogy of apples 12 oranges and trying to come up with fruit salad. I 13 don ' t like operating that way, and I think that the 14 amount of work that this Commission has to do yet on 15 other developments , I think we are spending way, way 16 too much time on this at the concept level . 17 I can appreciate your working with 18 staff . That is what we want you to do . We don ' t want 19 to design a development around this table . That is 20 what you guys do as professionals , and then you come to 21 our people that we value very, very much, their 22 opinion; but we need it all together from the same 23 document . We can ' t be having Mike ' s documents on one 24 note that was presented a month ago; and then you come DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 101 1 in with another one . It just isn ' t going to fly here , 2 guys . 3 We can sit here and argue among us 4 and we probably will whether we can accept 5 10 , 000 square foot or whether we can ' t . There is 6 strong feelings both ways , whether there should be more 7 green space or whether there shouldn ' t ; but when we 8 can ' t even agree on the same plan to everybody look at 9 and argue from the same point , I don ' t like it . 10 In fact , I am going to ask the City 11 staff and I hope , Mr . Mayor, with your concurrence that 12 we get some dates established, and they may have them 13 right now. Tony is not here, but that there is some 14 dates established that , if something is not into the 15 City office by this date , it doesn ' t go to the next 16 Plan Commission meeting, period . 17 MS . LUCIETTO : Didn ' t we go through that? 18 MR . LINDBLOM : Yes , we have . 19 MR . KUBALA: I ' d like to go one more . It 20 is not only getting it into our packets but giving 21 staff an opportunity to comment on it . So if we get 22 Wywrot ' s comments . We get Schoppe ' s comments, we get 23 other people ' s comments so that we can then marry this 24 all together rather than spending two hours in a DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 - 0030 102 1 discussion developing someone else ' s work . 2 MR. LINDBLOM : And I think we have done it 3 in the spirit of cooperation; and we have tried to say, 4 well , okay, let ' s let it go this time ; but this has 5 been three months in a row, guys . Am I right , three 6 months? 7 This is the third month extended 8 with a public hearing . Now, I think we have got that 9 behind us , but we are still not talking about the same 10 documents . 11 I will entertain a rebuttal if there 12 is one . 13 MR . SCHILLINGER : I think you got them, 14 Tom. 15 MR . LA FAVE : No, I can ' t rebut that . Our 16 intent is to - - we try to react . We try to talk to 17 staff , to listen to your comments and to get things 18 back as quickly as we could respond to them. 19 Unfortunately it didn ' t happen in a 20 timely fashion that was required for your staff to get 21 a fresh memo off of it , a review done and a memo out 22 unfortunately. Certainly we weren ' t trying to waste 23 any of your time . It is costing us a lot of money to 24 stand here - - DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 103 1 MR. LINDBLOM : Of course . 2 MR . LA FAVE : We are not looking to waste 3 anybody ' s time . We appreciate your comments and the 4 time that everybody has put into this . 5 MR . STEIN: The only thing I might add, 6 Mr . Chairman, we intend to not waste any time moving 7 things forward . 8 We have a long way to go . We as a 9 group have a long way to go . Whether this is moved on 10 as a concept with all of these comments and I am 11 absorbing a lot but move on out of concept and come 12 back to preliminary and move with that . 13 I promise you we hear you very 14 carefully, and I have heard it other places , too . We 15 need to get our materials on time . If we don ' t , we 16 have failed . 17 In order to move along on our agenda 18 and yours and the City' s , we would implore you consider 19 recognizing this concept has a long way to go before we 20 have a preliminary plan, a long way to go before we 21 have a development plan, a lot of work to do behind the 22 scenes with staff . Would it not behoof all of us to 23 move this out of concept? 24 All your comments are in this DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 104 1 record . Let the City - - have the council tell us what 2 to do next , then roll up our sleeves and really get to 3 work on this thing as we should . 4 MR. BAKER : I don ' t know that you have 5 heard all of our comments because I still have one that 6 I haven ' t made . 7 MR . SCHILLINGER : I do, too . 8 MR . BAKER : And it deals specifically with 9 concept . I don ' t understand how you have single family 10 housing up on 47 between two of the higher density 11 zonings . 12 If this is a transition and 13 transition being moving off of 47 , why is the single 14 family up on 47? That is a comment that I have had. 15 MR . SCHILLINGER: Why mix the multi with 16 the single? 17 MR . BAKER : Why put it in the center of it? 18 MR. SCHILLINGER : Well , they are doing it 19 with whole sections of the property . 20 MR . BAKER : Well , not necessarily on the 21 top section . 22 MR . LINDBLOM : Just for my clarification, 23 what area, 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , are you talking about? 24 MR . BAKER : Well , I put my thing away when DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 105 1 you got all hot and bothered. No . 6 with multiplex B 2 and C on either side . 3 MR. LINDBLOM : 5 and 7 on either side of 4 it? 5 MR . BAKER: That is correct . 6 MR. LINDBLOM : Brian, you had a concern, 7 also? 8 MR . SCHILLINGER : Basically the same thing . 9 To me transition is , if we are going 10 from another town with a high density smaller lot 11 sizes , possibly multifamily, to me transition is going 12 from 10 , 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 , whatever or multiplex to 13 duplex to single family. To me that is transition. 14 Okay? 15 Building from what they have to what 16 we want , that is transitional . Perhaps you put 17 business zoning between the two and then go to a lower 18 density, something more that Yorkville is looking for . 19 However, you want to transitionalize that , that is 20 fine . 21 Why you would mix single family, 22 multi , multi , single family? Why would you - - 23 crunching the numbers I understand, yes ; but if you 24 need to get multi in there to get your bottom line DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 106 1 correct and right , why not just move this single family 2 out of here , move this multi down here , put a road 3 between the two so that everybody can get to the 4 schools , everybody can get to - - I love the idea of 5 nice parks , park sites , ball fields , basketball courts , 6 whatever, on this end, same thing up in the school 7 complex up here . You have both sides of the drainage 8 creek have access to both of them, a road between the 9 two . I just don ' t understand the mix. 10 MR . LANNERT : Well , the idea behind the old 11 concept is the creek corridor becomes the spinal issue, 12 and we wanted to keep that corridor as natural as 13 possible . We wanted to improve it . 14 So, therefore , what we are doing is 15 we are backing up our more intense uses to that 16 greenway corridor . So the original direction was not 17 to cross that greenway corridor, to leave it available 18 for the sewer lines , leave it available for the water 19 lines , leave it available for the flow of water. So 20 that became the fixed point in terms of concept . 21 So as you can see, all of our 22 density has been clustered in those areas . So that is 23 why this occurs here . That is why this occurs behind 24 the commercial . Obviously the commercial is at the DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 107 1 most prominent area of the two roadways . As Mike 2 pointed out , rather than having five acres of 3 commercial on each one of those corners , we took an 4 additional five acres to the 20 and put 25 acres up 5 here ; and we think that is a more appropriate place for 6 that commercial . 7 Now, in addition to this multifamily 8 pod backing up to this corridor, because of the 9 restrictions of the Route 47 corridor and the flood 10 plain, it is very difficult to get single-family lots 11 within this zone ; and we didn ' t want to back 12 single-family lots out on to 47 . 13 Well , then why do we do it? The 14 answer is because this is the only portion, this is the 15 largest central portion of the south side . We wanted 16 to make sure we had single family within the south 17 neighborhood; and if you - - on the plans , we are 18 showing the 50-feet greenway buffer in addition to the 19 right of way along 47 . So while we do have some lots 20 backing up to 47 , the majority of this neighborhood is 21 protected against the park and against the open space ; 22 and then finishing out the conceptual idea is that this 23 corner - - we didn ' t want to have single-family homes 24 backing up to that corner . That is a reasonable DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 108 1 transition for multifamily. 2 MR . SCHILLINGER : So perhaps in the future 3 to the west of this piece of property, it ends up 4 getting developed, also - - 5 MR. LANNERT : This? 6 MR. SCHILLINGER : No go up, there you go, 7 that whole western area right there . 8 Perhaps in the future that gets 9 developed also, more than likely single-family homes? 10 MR . LA FAVE : The purple - - 11 MR. SCHOPPE : More than likely 12 single-family homes between this property and the 13 creek. 14 MR . GREEN : You talked about the water 15 drainage and so forth coming through the Rob Roy. Does 16 this subdivision have a storm water system? 17 MR . SCHOPPE : Yes . 18 MR . GREEN : Where are they going to go? 19 Are they going to dump into the Rob Roy drainage ditch? 20 MR. SCHOPPE : Chris , do you want to review 21 that? 22 MR. LANNERT : No . That will be these 23 areas - - the creek corridor will be as it is shown in 24 this location . Then we are showing it meandering into DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 109 1 this location. 2 These water areas shown here - - this 3 blue-green area here which is used for all but not part 4 of the park distribution in terms of the requirements . 5 All of these areas will be storm water areas along this 6 corridor . So the storm water will be adjacent to the 7 creek, not in the creek, and it will be in a number of 8 different basins that it is designed for these - - 9 MR. LA FAVE : Right , and with those basins , 10 if I can elaborate, they have incorporated the best 11 management practices which is the catch phrase , 12 wetlands , some green areas that allow the water to run 13 across it ; and then it helps to filter - - 14 MR. GREEN: I understand about that . You 15 are putting an awful lot of rooftops and blacktop out 16 here and stuff , and just to soak up the water - - you 17 know, I am thinking the ball park is down here at the 18 bottom in that lower - - that is going to be a marsh. 19 You know, you weren ' t out here when we had the big rain 20 and stuff . That was all a big giant puddle right down 21 here at the bottom. 22 MR . LANNERT : All of that will be 23 remodeled, but those will function as blue-green areas ; 24 and, yes , they will be inundated with water at times ; DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 110 1 but they will also dry off and be usable fields , not 2 premium fields . They will be wet and soggy when it 3 rains , but they are potentially good field areas . 4 MR . GREEN : Okay. 5 MR. LA FAVE : Once, again, that is not park 6 district property. 7 What we want to do is provide a 8 space for the residents so they can play pick-up 9 baseball , et cetera . 10 MR. LINDBLOM : That is what we have 11 engineering review for . 12 MR . GREEN : I know. I realize it is a 13 little preliminary stuff , but we are changing the 14 course of the creek or the ditch and so forth. It just 15 seems to me water still runs downhill , and that is the 16 low spot . 17 MR . LANNERT : And it does from top to 18 bottom. 19 MR . LA FAVE : I think actually your 20 consultant , conservation design form - - they actually 21 are promoting us meandering - - 22 MR . LINDBLOM : Would it be unreasonable for 23 you to take all of our comments and come back with one 24 clean - - DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 111 1 MR . SCHILLINGER : Try, again . 2 MR. LINDBLOM: - - copy that everybody has 3 seen, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, to meet your 4 timetable? If you can do it for next month, fine . If 5 you can ' t , then it is - - 6 MR . LA FAVE : To answer, if it is not this 7 exact plan, it is going to be 99 percent of that plan 8 which, you know, as I said we feel complies with the 9 comprehensive plan with the latest - - with the - - 10 MR . KUBALA: If it is 99 percent of that 11 plan, that plan will fail ; and I don ' t believe that you 12 have in my opinion a ghost of a chance if that is the 13 attitude and the direction that you are going to go . 14 MR . STEIN : With all due respect to the 15 comments we have heard and we have heard plenty - - 16 MR . KUBALA: He has just told me that 17 99 percent of the plan is exactly where it is here . 18 There is no road. There is no crossing the creek. 19 There is no correction of the Unit 5 and getting more 20 access . 21 The site for the park is grossly 22 inadequate as far as the parking and developments for 23 that area over there . The school arrangements - - 24 MR . LA FAVE : Which park is that? This DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 112 1 park? 2 MR. STEIN : Once , again, we are asked to 3 come back in a month with a concept plan - - 4 MR . KUBALA: I was just told or I just 5 heard that it is 99 percent there . 6 MR. STEIN : As a concept plan. We don ' t - - 7 we are very anxious to work on the preliminary plan. 8 That is the document that will evolve into a 9 development site . 10 MR . KUBALA: I don ' t care what you call it . 11 You need to come back with something that has gone 12 through staff . That is unified that we don ' t get , oh, 13 here ' s another new drawing for you to take look at at 14 this meeting . We just got it hot off the press . I 15 think we are sick and tired of seeing hot off the 16 press . 17 MR . STEIN : Then I need to understand just 18 so I can help advise in my role here, I think what I am 19 hearing is that perhaps we should be coming back with 20 our preliminary plan and not our concept plan. 21 If that is the direction, we will be 22 happy to comply; but there are procedures that you have 23 established for us . We are doing our best to work with 24 those . DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 113 1 MR . SCHOPPE : It ' s been talked before in 2 this project about the concept plan . If you want to 3 come back with the preliminary plan, I think you can do 4 that . 5 However, the preliminary plan 6 involves preliminary engineering as part of the 7 preliminary plan . It involves architectural elevations 8 for your products ; and all the discussion we have had 9 to date on this project are those that you are not 10 ready to bring that level of documentation forward. 11 MR . STEIN: I agree with you, Mr . Schoppe . 12 My problem is just a procedural one . 13 Mr . Kubala - - we want to please 14 everyone here . Mr . Kubala is saying that the detail in 15 the concept plan would be many of the things that we 16 think appropriately belong in the preliminary plan. If 17 we can ' t move - - 18 MR. LINDBLOM : No . 19 MR . STEIN: If I am wrong, I am not trying 20 to be argumentative . 21 MR . LINDBLOM : I don ' t think we are talking 22 about detail , the degree of detail . I think we are 23 talking about concept . You know, where and how should 24 this bridge go across the - - how are you going to get DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 114 1 to that second phase of - - the second road for 5? What 2 are the ultimate numbers? 3 Once you add or subtract to park 4 land, to school site , et cetera, let Mike crunch the 5 numbers so that we all agree that these are the 6 numbers . Not all of us may like those, but that is 7 what they are based on a plan you are going to come in 8 with . 9 We may very well disagree here , and 10 that is okay. We can ' t even have a piece of paper in 11 front of us to disagree on. Is that the understanding 12 you are asking for? 13 MR. LA FAVE : Yes . In speaking to you 14 about the bridge issue, et cetera, I mean, in my 15 discussions with some staff members and the 16 superintendent , I am not even sure whether or not he 17 will accept this site ; and I can ' t speak for him. 18 I think what Tony Graff - - and I 19 can ' t speak for Tony; but to paraphrase , this is 20 concept ; and he wants to know when does he need to know 21 if he wants this site . I think the answer was some 22 point during the concept . So, yes , what I would like 23 to do is show him that plan; and if it is 15 acres , 24 fine . Is this site - - on this site, is this a viable DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 115 1 location for an elementary school? 2 MR. LINDBLOM: Please understand, I am not 3 asking you to design the grade school . 4 MR . LA FAVE : No . 5 MR . LINDBLOM : I am just saying get a 6 review from the school and say, yeah, we think it is 7 big enough . Maybe we can make it work . 8 MR . LA FAVE : One other comment to that is 9 that does speak to the bridge . As far as I am 10 concerned, if the school isn ' t interested in the 11 site - - Mike, if I can put you on the spot - - is there 12 a need for a bridge at that point because - - 13 MR. SCHILLINGER : Yes . 14 MR. LA FAVE : Pedestrian bridge , yes, but 15 for a vehicular bridge? 16 MR. SCHILLINGER : Yes . 17 MR . LA FAVE : We have always been 18 directed - - until this memo, we have always been 19 directed to not cross the creek with a vehicular 20 bridge . So this is a change in policy, and I want to 21 get some clear direction . 22 MR . SCHOPPE : If the school site goes away, 23 that has a change on a number of things . 24 Now, the question becomes what is DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 116 1 going to go in its place . Now, what goes in its place 2 may have an impact on whether there should be a bridge 3 there or not . 4 When we see the plan that wants to 5 come forward that leads us to changes , then it might 6 very well change some road networks and - - 7 MR . CROUCH : Can I address the school site 8 for a moment? I would not begin to speak for the 9 school board or the superintendent whether or not that 10 particular school site would be acceptable, but this 11 development without a school site will not be 12 acceptable . I don ' t care if it is there or where it 13 is , I am quoting directly when I said 15 acres high and 14 dry. 15 MR . LA FAVE : We know. We have heard you . 16 That is fine . We will incorporate that . 17 MR . CROUCH : I am just saying there will 18 not be a development without a school site because, 19 when we are looking at such potential growth within the 20 district , that every development that is going to 21 deliver the number of students that this development 22 potentially would, we need a school site . 23 So whether it is there or here or 24 over here , that gets back to your business . I am not DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 117 1 going to begin to sit here and say how you should do 2 that . 3 MR . LINDBLOM : Okay. Does that give you 4 a - - 5 MR . LA FAVE : Yes , yes . 6 MR . LINDBLOM : - - a path to follow? 7 MR. LA FAVE : I think so . 8 MR . LANNERT : I think the next thing to do 9 is set the dates . 10 MR. LINDBLOM : I am sorry? 11 MR. LANNERT : Set the dates . 12 MR . LINDBLOM: Set the dates with the 13 staff . 14 Let me ask the Commission one more 15 time : Is there any other issues that these gentlemen 16 are not aware of that you have on your mind? 17 MR . SCHILLINGER : Parking by the south ball 18 fields . 19 MR . LA FAVE : Once, again, those ball 20 fields are not public ball fields . These are - - 21 MR. SCHILLINGER : They may not be public, 22 but kids will use them. 23 MR. LA FAVE : We can turn them into a 24 detention basin . We will make them a wetland. DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 118 1 MR . SCHILLINGER : Well , I like the idea of 2 the ball fields . I really do, but you have to agree . 3 I don ' t care if it is a ball field or a dirt field, 4 kids are going to use it . 5 MR . LA FAVE : Kids aren ' t driving though. 6 MR. SCHILLINGER : No, but their parents 7 will take them there . 8 MR . CROUCH : With all due respect - - if 9 people that live in that area are not going to use 10 those ball fields , who is going to use them? The four 11 people that back up to that property? I don ' t 12 understand. 13 Someone is going to come there for 14 the purpose of using those ball fields . They are going 15 to need someplace to park . 16 MR . SCHILLINGER : We don ' t want to deter 17 you from those ball fields either . 18 MR. CROUCH : No, not at all ; but the fact 19 is , if the four people - - there is four lots that back 20 up to that property and are the only way to that 21 property, and the only place that people can park - - 22 they are going to park on the street in front of those 23 four houses . They are going to be four very unhappy 24 homeowners . DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 119 1 MR. LANNERT : There would be a trail 2 system. 3 MR. DAVIS : Well , that is missing . So it 4 is hard to - - I think we are beating a dead horse . 5 MR. SCHILLINGER : Yes . 6 MR . LINDBLOM : Any other things on your 7 mind that these gentlemen need to be aware of? 8 Okay. You have got your direction. 9 MR. LA FAVE : Yes . 10 MR . LINDBLOM : With that , I think that 11 closes that portion of the meeting . 12 Staff , any comments from you? 13 MAYOR PROCHASKA: The staff does have a 14 deadline for stuff to get in . I will just make sure 15 that they get that to these gentlemen here so that 16 everything is in place, and I don ' t have a problem with 17 doing that . 18 I do ask the City council that if 19 things are not there by a certain day, they do not go 20 on the agenda . 21 MR. LINDBLOM : Okay. Dan, do you have 22 anything? 23 MR . KRAMER : No . I think the procedure 24 went very well tonight , and hopefully the reporter felt DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 - 0030 120 1 it somewhat orderly and thank you for coming . 2 MR. LINDBLOM : Dan, would you explain for 3 the Commission - - you and I had a conversation before, 4 but is it going to be standard procedure now to have a 5 court reporter or - - 6 MR . KRAMER : Yes . Some of this is old hat 7 for somebody like Sandy, but there was a decision that 8 came down from the second district appellate by the 9 name of Klaren, K-L-A-R-E-N, in about the last year; 10 and Illinois Municipal League and pretty much everybody 11 has to take part because we are in the second district 12 so we must . 13 Basically it is decided rightfully 14 or wrongfully that public hearings such as these are an 15 administrative as opposed to a legislative function 16 which in layman ' s probably means absolutely nothing to 17 you - - other than when I am not poacher turned game 18 keeper on the City side and doing things privately in 19 other Villages and Cities . 20 If you didn ' t like the decision and 21 you went to court contesting a zoning challenge, it was 22 called a trial de novo . In other words , you have to 23 bring people in like Chris Lannert as experts or Mike 24 Schoppe and start all over just as though there had DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 121 1 been no decision . 2 This Klaren decision is saying it is 3 administrative and the record is what this young lady 4 types up . So there is no new evidence other than the 5 administrative record from this hearing . 6 So I am recommending to the City 7 Council that we have a court reporter at all of our 8 public hearings now with the Plan Commission on zoning 9 and annexation. 10 The other thing that Klaren stood 11 for was that customarily - - Tom has always run a good 12 meeting and he had a good teacher with Harold Felts who 13 was our Plan Commission Chairman for 20 years - - we as 14 a City have always allowed people to talk, but we 15 didn ' t necessarily allow it to be in a question and 16 answer session . In other words , petitioner would give 17 theirs . There would be questions from the Plan 18 Commission and staff , but we didn ' t necessarily allow 19 members of the audience to question like Sandy when he 20 talked tonight or Mitch or Chris ; and you have to allow 21 a right of cross-examination . So if they want to allow 22 questions , we are supposed to allow a reasonable amount 23 of time . 24 Now, in Klaren, they should have DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 122 1 called it - - and Sandy and I were joking before the 2 meeting - - the Mejer Store case because it was Mejer 3 and the Village of Lisle, and I don ' t think the Mayor 4 did anything egregious there . He simply asked all 5 persons testifying or talking to limit their comments 6 to three minutes . Now, you can imagine in a more 7 popular suburb you probably have a gymnasium full of 8 people . They are saying that was unreasonable 9 curtailment of your time to speak, but they used the 10 word reasonable . 11 Like I said, I think we have always 12 done it ; but we will have a little bit different format 13 where folks can ask questions . 14 MR . LINDBLOM: Okay. 15 Anything, Laura, from you at all? 16 MS . BROWN: No . 17 MR. LINDBLOM: Lynn? 18 MS . DUBAJIC : No . 19 MR . LINDBLOM : Anybody else? 20 We will entertain a motion to 21 adjourn . 22 MR . KUBALA: So moved. 23 MR . BAKER : Seconded . 24 MR . LINDBLOM : Okay. DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 123 1 (Whereupon the meeting of the 2 above-entitled matter was 3 concluded . ) 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 DepoCourt Reporting Service (630 ) 983 -0030 124 1 STATE OF ILLINOIS ) SS . 2 COUNTY OF KENDALL ) 3 I , Nicola Gengler, C . S . R. , No . 84 -3780 , do 4 hereby certify that the proceedings had in the 5 above-entitled cause were recorded stenographically by 6 me and reduced to typewriting via computer-aided 7 transcription under my personal direction; and that the 8 foregoing is a true and correct transcript of the 9 proceedings had at the time and place previously 10 specified. 11 IN WITNESS WHEREOF I have hereunto set my 12 hand this 2nd day of April , 2003 . 13 14 Ze�;rti_fCiied ___ _ __Shortha Reporter 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 DepoCourt Reporting Service (630) 983 -0030 YORXVILL.TXT Page 1 -------------------------- 3.1 35:2 81:20; 120:16 76:24; 99:3,13,15; 101:8; ' 3.34 35:1,6 absorbing 103:11 113:11; 114:5; 118:2 -------------------------- 300 13:1,17; 14:24; 16:1; accept 89:15; 101:4; agreeable 40:10,11; 42:15, 103 22:8; 23:14 18:5; 19:20,21; 44:5 114:17 22; 70:24 -------------------------- 302 70:18 acceptable 39:12; 85:9; agreed 75:22 * 38 63:20 116:10,12 agriculture 56:11 -------------------------- -------------------------- accepted 21:2; 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109:15 called 120:22; 122:1 area 13:8; 17:8,18,20; backed 44:11 block 53:14; 76:20 calling 98:24 31:2,6,8; 35:19,24; background 10:19 blue-green 16:14; 109:3,23 came 28:17,21; 63:16; 38:17,18; 39:10,23,24; ( backing 15:12; 106:15; blunt 27:4 78:2; 97:17; 120:8 40:3,7; 41:10; 44:1; 107:8,20,24 board 11:20; 12:10; 21:9; camp 63:21 56:21; 57:5,9,10,11,13; bad 94:1 25:12; 34:1; 39:13,16,20; camping 64:1 58:19; 59:7; 60:20; 63:9; BAKER 2:12; 3:16,17; 4:5; 57:13; 86:8; 95:22; 116:9 cannot 59:7; 66:1,2 66:14,19; 78:19; 82:4; 9:3; 25:20; 28:24; 44:2; boards 12:9 capacity 38:1,3 87:12; 90:3; 93:1,12,16; 54:12,14; 68:9; 73:19,23; bookstore 52:14 care 10:14; 25:24; 47:6; 94:6,9; 104:23; 107:1; 74:1,5,9,14,22; 75:3,7, booth 56:5 112:10; 116:12; 118:3 108:7; 109:3; 111:23; 14; 76:11,24; 77:22; both 10:18; 26:7; 101:6; career 10:17 118:9 78:1; 79:5; 83:12,13; 106:7,8 carefully 103:14 areas 14:23; 16:14; 29:19; 86:3,7; 87:6; 96:23; bothered 105:1 carrying 37:24; 38:3 31:16; 34:22; 35.10; 97:10; 98:22; 99:8; bothers 93:16 cars 48:14 39:11; 40:17; 94:10; 104:4,8,17,20,24; 105:5; bottom 4:17; 6:2,11,13; case 122:2 106:22; 108:23; 109:2,5, 122:23 13:7; 105:24; 109:18,21; cases 97:24 12,23; 110:3 bakery 52:13 110:18 cash 19:23; 88:21; 94:16, aren't 118:5 balance 16:13; 18:4; 19:7, bought 41:12; 50:4; 51:14; 23,24; 95:4,7,13 argue 99:13; 101:3,9 22; 87:4 55:18; 60:16,20; 63:23; catch 40:16; 62:19; 109:11 argumentative 113:20 ball 106:5; 109:17; 66:8,9; 78:1,22 catch-up 24:12 arguments 69:8 117:17,19,20; 118:2,3,10, boulevard 31:22; 87:18 caught 24:4 around 6:17; 8:19,23; 14,17 boutique 53:21; 67:5; 70:2 cause 56:15; 124:5 13:12; 17:8; 18:16; 58:3; barber 52:13 Boy 63:21; 64:1 caveat 42:23; 76:6,7; 77:4 76:10; 88:21; 100:19 barns 58:7 break 21:19 caveats 75:24 arrangements 111:23 baseball 110:9 BRIAN 2:11; 3:5; 79:7; center 104:17 ART 2:19.5 based 23:13; 35:15,21; 82:6; 105:6 central 107:15 arterial 37:17,21,22; 81:23; 114:7 brick 74:22 century 63:10 85:14 basement 46:24; 50:2 bridge 2:15.5; 29:4,16; certain 20:24; 24:24; arterials 38:6 basic 13:8 30:4,9,10,20,22,23; 25:4; 34:20; 119:19 asphalt 63:3 basically 25:6; 46:5; 42:16,18; 53:14; 70:18; certainly 23:8; 27:12; assist 11:20 105:8; 120:13 113:24; 114:14; 115:9,12, 37:14; 53:21; 102:22 association 19:7 basin 117:24 14,15,20; 116:2 Certified 124:14.5 assume 13:4; 68:2 basins 109:8,9 brief 10:11; 43:1 certify 124:4 assumed 66:12 basketball 106:5 bring 36:2; 65:11; 66:4; cetera 33:18; 35:12; 37:3; assuming 66:10 beating 92:6; 119:4 113:10; 120:23 69:11; 110:9; 111:3; assumption 57:10 beautiful 66:6 brought 23:8; 32:21; 114:4,14 assured 77:10 beautifully 21:12 36:18; 43:18; 57:23; Chairman 2:2; 9:24; 12:8; Atlantic 5:6,7,11,23; became 106:20 63:6,7; 65:15; 68:13 20:19; 24:8; 26:22; 34:1; 6:16; 9:23; 10:3; 11:21; become 51:4; 53:7; 78:21, BROWN 2:20.5; 95:17,21; 59:16; 64:5; 65:10; 19:2; 20:23; 24:3; 25:23; 22; 80:5 96:5,11; 122:16 80:10; 97:1; 103:6; 28:1; 40:11; 72:16,24 becomes 106:11; 115:24 buffer 17:13; 107:18 121:13 attached 35:12,15,20; begin 7:17; 116:8; 117:1 buffering 15:22 challenge 120:21 36:4; 77:5; 94:7,10 beginning 6:21; 7:1; 39:19 buffers 15:13 chance 44:14; 47:11; attempt 24:9; 82:22 begins 50:13 building 30:5; 33:2,3; 85:11; 111:12 attempting 98:4 behalf 2:17; 20:23 47:12; 52:17; 57:23; change 41:13; 72:13,19,21; attention 94:5 behind 25:18; 27:17; 65:1,6; 86:10,13; 105:15 73:3; 77:3; 80:11; 81:14; attitude 111:13 55:20; 58:10,11; 81:12; buildings 33:3; 52:13 95:18; 96:1; 99:19; auction 65:24 89:23; 102:9; 103:21; built 55:19 115:20,23; 116:6 audience 9:19; 121:19 106:10,23 bulk 81:15 changed 13:20,24 Aurora 67:7; 92:4 behoof 103:22 bumping 92:20 changes 27:22; 82:17; available 22:9; 106:17,18, belabor 64:4 bus 65:19; 66:2; 67:13; 96:3,4; 97:11; 116:5 19 believe 6:6,21; 8:17; 69:10 changing 26:19; 53:23; avoid 22:20 24:17; 28:21; 32:2; buses 37:2 75:22; 95:17; 110:13 aware 117:16; 119:7 34:10; 62:11; 74:14; bushes 50:15 Charles 59:17 away 11:3; 78:9; 104:24; 76:3,19; 81:8; 83:23; business 6:20; 7:1,6; Chicago 10:18 115:22 88:20; 89:8; 91:3,21; 45:22; 47:12; 48:15; chickens 67:8 awful 109:15 92:15; 111:11 49:3,7; 52:3,5,9,13; child 46:7 aye 8:10; 9:10; 45:10; belong 113:16 53:20; 55:8; 56:14; 57:3; children 65:7; 66:1,17; 54:22; 68:21; 72:8; 73:6 below 13:3 61:5; 62:5; 66:17; 70:19; 67:12,15 ayes 8:12; 9:12; 45:12; Bennett 92:2 72:21; 73:16; 74:8; 75:8, choice 51:19 54:24; 68:23; 72:10; 73:8 best 51:18; 53:17; 100:10; 17,22; 76:5; 78:19,21,23; Chris 5:19,21; 11:21; -------------------------- 109:10; 112:23 79:17,23; 80:20,23; 82:1, 12:6; 16:20; 19:13; 29:7, B better 37:24; 40:23; 3,6,13; 105:17; 116:24 10; 85:3; 108:20; 120:23; -------------------------- 56:14; 98:19,21 businesses 52:4; 74:10; 121:20 Bl 45:22; 52:2,5,9; 55:8; between 14:21; 31:19; 76:10 church 52:14 60:14; 80:11 32:3; 33:3; 34:10; 59:19; busy 48:8 circles 10:24 B2 52:2; 70:19 97:12; 104:10; 105:17; buy 50:21; 51:12 circulation 37:5,7 YORXVILL.TXT Page 3 Cities 120:19 commission 1:5; 9:16; 93:19 86:2,6,11; 88:4; 89:3,6, CITY 1:6; 2:17; 33:4; 11:13; 14:7; 23:6; 24:10; continued 9:22; 10:5; 14:5 8,17,23; 90:4,7; 91:14; 42:4; 45:21; 51:4; 56:20; 25:3; 26:4; 27:5,9,20; contrary 32:1 94:4; 96:24; 97:7; 98:2; 60:15; 95:12; 99:21; 32:10,22; 36:19; 39:9,12, contribute 10:12 116:7,17; 118:8,18 100:2; 101:10,15; 104:1; 14; 56:22; 62:12; 67:21; contribution 19:23; 95:18 crunch 114:4 119:18; 120:18; 121:6,14 69:7; 73:14; 84:1; 98:8; conversation 120:3 crunching 105:23 City's 103:18 100:14; 101:16; 117:14; conversations 14:8; 85:21 cul 93:23; 97:19,21 CLARENCE 2:10; 3:12 120:3; 121:8,13,18 cooperation 102:3 current 13:21; 97:8 clarification 6:18; 19:3; common 65:17; 76:22; copies 97:13 currently 11:11 23:18; 33:21; 71:8; 77:19,20 Copy 22:12; 56:22; 61:24; curtailment 122:9 94:22; 104:22 communities 11:10 97:3; 111:2 curve 50:13 clarify 4:18,19,22; 23:20; community 12:16,24; 16:10; Cornelius 15:18; 91:4 curves 50:9,13 34:23 21:7; 32:18; 37:23; 56:15 corner 13:15; 14:17; customarily 121:11 clean 60:5; 92:22; 110:24 comp 73:20; 74:7; 75:4; 15:18; 31:1; 37:8; 39:7, customers 58:12 clear 4:20; 51:12; 65:2; 91:6; 98:17,18 10; 46:7; 47:17,18,19; cut 49:23 68:3; 115:21 compared 35:2 57:2; 59:4; 67:13; 70:9; -------------------------- CLEMENS 57:19; 64:19; compensate 40:22 74:15,20; 91:5; 107:23,24 D 67:11 complete 11:24; 16:17; corners 13:18; 91:11; -------------------------- clerk 4:12 50:22 107:3 D-643803 1:23 clients 11:14 complex 24:15; 26:15; correct 5:13; 6:10,12,14; Dan 57:24; 119:21; 120:2 clinic 52:16 106:7 8:4; 17:9,19; 18:8,9; dance 26:7 close 6:3; 20:17,19; compliance 36:3 19:22; 22:24; 24:11; DANIEL 2:15,16.5 21:15; 24:22; 44:19; complies 35:13; 111:8 25:18; 30:8; 31:4; 33:23, dashed 13:11 45:1; 50:24; 54:7; 68:2; comply 36:5; 78:4; 98:17; 24; 34:12; 60:8; 61:9; data 15:24; 35:22 71:22; 72:5; 77:13; 112:22 74:9,14; 82:13; 85:5; date 10:6; 42:14; 69:4,5; 78:10; 96:20 composed 13:1 88:12; 96:11; 105:5; 101:15; 113:9 closed 6:9; 45:15; 72:12 compost 13:10 106:1; 124:8 dated 22:7; 23:14; 56:23 closer 50:11; 51:1; 86:2 comprehensive 6:17; 16:3; correcting 25:13 dates 101:12,14; 117:9,11, closes 119:11 21:6; 33:13,17; 35:1,7, correction 111:19 12 closest 30:19; 58:10; 14,17; 38:17,20; 39:5,8; corrections 4:2,14; 6:1; daughter 55:19; 57:22 59:17; 65:24 60:14,17,20,24; 61:2,16, 7:22 DAVENPORT 69:23 clothing 52:15 20,22; 90:22; 93:5,10; corridor 14:19,23; 16:7; DAVID 62:17,20 clubhouse 16:8; 29:6; 30:5 94:19,21; 96:20; 111:9 17:15; 31:20; 40:7; 44:4; DAVIS 2:4; 3:23; 40:14; clustered 106:22 comprised 17:11 75:6,7; 78:20; 106:11,12, 41:4; 80:13,18; 81:6,9, collect 84:24 computer-aided 124:6 16,17; 107:8,9; 108:23; 18; 83:18,19; 87:11; collector 85:14 concept 12:2,22; 32:15,18, 109:6 119:3 combine 87:22 23; 41:22; 42:2; 43:7,13, corridors 39:18 day 48:12; 65:17,18; 67:6; combined 87:9 18; 85:4,10; 98:14,24; cost 42:21 119:19; 124:12 combing 96:21 99:5,6,8,9,10,11,16; costing 102:23 DC 10:18 Come 14:13; 27:5,15; 31:5; 100:16; 103:10,11,19,23; Couldn't 82:12 de 93:23; 97:19,21; 120:22 32:9; 34:9; 39:24; 40:6; 104:9; 106:11,20; 112:3, council 42:5; 61:13; 64:6; dead 92:7; 119:4 42:3,7; 43:11; 44:18; 6,20; 113:2,15,23; 104:1; 119:18; 121:7 deadline 119:14 50:17; 81:21; 86:4; 114:20,22 count 78:6; 96:3 deadlines 100:2 98:18; 99:19; 100:12,20, conceptual 107:22 county 11:12; 39:21; 124:2 deal 11:19; 82:10 24; 103:11; 110:23; concern 48:21; 58:14; couple 36:1; 44:7; 56:4; dealer 56:4 112:3,11; 113:3; 114:7; 67:12,17; 70:3,7,10; 62:21,22; 81:7 deals 94:6; 104:8 116:5; 118:13 105:6 course 8:12; 9:12; 12:4; Dean 58:17 comes 36:23; 50:11,15; concerned 48:7; 92:7; 26:15; 45:12; 48:6; decide 51:17; 62:12; 64:15 72:22; 80:2 115:10 51:19; 54:24; 67:17; decided 60:13; 120:13 comfortable 23:7; 39:9 concerning 56:24 68:23; 72:10; 73:8; decision 23:7; 69:12; coming 11:19; 31:19; concerns 48:5; 80:19 103:1; 110:14 120:7,20; 121:1,2 47:10; 48:7; 93:17; concluded 123:3 courts 106:5 decrease 46:13 97:20; 108:15; 112:19; concurrence 101:11 covered 21:15; 26:24 dedicated 19:5; 35:10,11; 120:1 condition 76:5; 77:3 Craig 69:23 36:8,9 comment 4:19; 5:2; 18:24; conducive 48:20 crazy 51:22 deem 50:21 20:20; 21:4,18; 43:6; configuration 97:8 create 48:16 define 87:15 47:22; 58:22; 62:9; conflicting 6:15 created 93:3 defined 98:19 76:12; 80:17; 90:17; confused 76:11,16; 88:14 credit 54:11 degree 14:9; 64:24; 113:22 95:16,24; 98:3; 101:21; conjunction 42:12 credited 5:8 degrees 30:14 104:14; 115:8 connect 28:13 creek 13:3,4; 14:19,23; delaying 64:12 commenting 23:7 connected 31:7 15:6; 16:7; 17:8; 28:18, deleted 6:14 comments 16:24; 18:14; connecting 37:12 19; 29:20; 30:15,21; delineated 36:12 20:6,16; 21:22; 22:2,6, connection 29:9; 31:14 31:20; 32:4; 42:18; 44:3; deliver 116:21 13,15; 23:2,12,24; 24:6, conservation 110:20 90:11; 106:8,11; 108:13, densities 94:13 21; 25:11; 26:14; 32:8; consider 57:13; 64:6; 23; 109:7; 110:14; density 18:17,18; 20:4,10; 33:10; 34:9; 38:7; 40:13; 103:18 111:18; 115:19 28:9; 34:19,22,24; 35:1, 42:12; 43:17; 44:22; consideration 11:15 cross 28:18; 106:17; 4,6,10,15,22,24; 86:17, 46:3; 53:10; 54:4; 55:16; consistent 16:3; 21:5,7; 115:19 23; 88:20; 104:10; 73:13; 74:4; 84:1,4,5; 22:23; 35:16; 38:19; cross-examination 121:21 105:10,18; 106:22 90:13,15; 101:22,23; 39:4; 41:2 crossed 7:8; 28:19 deny 74:18 102:17; 103:3,10,24; consolidate 14:18 crosshatch 29:16 department 19:19 104:5; 110:23; 111:15; constraints 14:11 crossing 29:8; 37:11; depending 17:23; 82:5 119:12; 122:5 construction 50:22 90:11; 111:18 depleted 96:16 commercial 14:16,18; consultant 5:22; 110:20 CROUCH 2:3; 3:20,21; 4:5; describe 12:19 15:17; 18:3; 35:3; 37:8; contesting 120:21 26:22; 27:2; 45:4,5; design 32:24; 34:20; 39:7,10,11; 40:7; 57:3, continuance 71:9 71:8,12,18; 76:18; 79:6, 36:16; 100:19; 110:20; 14; 91:6,10; 106:24; continue 6:4,8; 16:6; 15; 80:15; 82:12; 83:16, 115:3 107:3,6 56:12; 62:13; 70:21; 17; 84:8,17,23; 85:20; designated 93:10 YOR&VILL.TXT Page 4 designed 109:8 113:10 105:2,3; 118:17 expansion 48:7; 49:2,13; desirable 46:16 documents 10:8; 21:1; elaborate 109:10 50:5 desire 86:9 22:17; 26:2; 27:7,17; elementary 86:13; 89:1,15, experience 10:13; 43:15 despite 32:1 100:23; 102:10 18; 90:2; 115:1 experts 120:23 destroying 64:24 doing 10:13; 104:18; elevations 113:7 explain 23:11,12; 76:17; detail 43:10; 113:14,22 106:14; 112:23; 119:17; else's 102:1 120:2 detailed 99:7 120:18 explained 67:16 embankment 46:11; 50:14; details 43:8,19 dollar 30:5 78:15 explore 42:15 detention 117:24 dollars 51:21 emergency 57:7 explored 77:7 deter 118:16 donation 88:9,12 encompass 44:4 exploring 79:19 Deutschman 55:21; 63:20 donations 19:14 encompasses 14:19 extended 102:7 develop 14:12 done 24:9,15; 25:9; 27:6; encourage 69:9 extreme 91:5 developed 108:4,9 47:10; 51:24; 73:17; encroaching 62:24 eyes 70:5 developer 58:17 92:16; 100:2; 102:2,21; encumbered 19:14 -------------------------- developing 102:1 122:12 end 12:24; 49:23; 53:13; F development 18:1,2; 19:21; door 81:10 59:5,19; 93:16; 106:6 -------------------------- 20:1; 93:21; 100:19; double 51:20 endanger 66:1 facilities 16:8; 85:7,8 103:21; 112:9; 116:11,18, doubt 43:16 ended 74:16 facility 15:22 20,21 down 5:9; 7:9; 8:23; 13:8; ends 91:24; 108:3 fact 13:17; 27:21; 39:2; developments 100:15; 36:3,5,15; 46:11; 48:10; engaged 11:16; 71:19 42:10; 65:16; 70:14; 111:22 50:2,13; 51:13,22; 53:24; engineering 71:20; 110:11; 89:14; 94:6; 97:20; dialog 98:15 65:19; 67:13,16; 78:2,16, 113:6 101:10; 118:18 difference 34:10 24; 80:2; 81:7; 84:17; ( engineers 46:21; 51:10 fail 25:11; 111:11 differences 28:9 88:10; 91:4; 106:2; enormous 58:6 failed 103:16 different 38:15; 97:22,23; 109:17,20; 120:8 enough 40:18,21; 41:2; fails 94:20 98:9; 109:8; 122:12 downgrade 78:15 53:4; 56:6; 93:12; 115:7 fairly 78:11 difficult 11:15; 46:15; downhill 110:15 enter 58:13 fairness 28:16; 80:1,2 53:5; 82:14; 94:18; downwind 67:4 entertain 9:1; 54:6; familiar 89:6 107:10 draft 22:5 67:21,24; 102:11; 122:20 family 18:1; 36:11; 43:22; difficulty 97:12 drainage 106:7; 108:15,19 entrance 48:18; 58:1,2,4; 52:13; 55:23; 57:8; 92:2; diminished 37:14 draw 94:5 59:11; 76:22,23; 77:20 104:9,14; 105:13,21,22; dinky 66:16 drawing 13:11; 16:5; entry 97:18 106:1; 107:16 direct 40:24; 98:15 25:12; 112:13 environmental 10:19 far 20:3; 67:18; 75:11; directed 95:7; 115:18,19 drawings 22:4 envisioned 15:23; 16:4 81:16; 111:22; 115:9 direction 75:21; 88:18; drive 13:8; 57:1,4,6,20; SPA 10:18,20 farm 1:11; 12:13; 13:9; 94:19; 95:6; 106:16; 58:4,13; 59:1,2,6; 66:3; equate 15:9 63:9,11; 91:22 111:13; 112:21; 115:21; 69:9,18 equates 35:24 farmhouse 58:1 119:8; 124:7 driver 65:17; 66:2 erected 80:24 fashion 27:13; 102:20 directly 24:14; 70:8; driveway 48:13,15; 53:5; especially 12:1; 48:8 PAVE 16:22; 19:1; 27:24; 116:13 ( 63:2,3; 69:18; 74:24; essence 45:20; 75:21; 28:16; 29:3,6,22; 30:1, director 95:22 75:1; 77:19 79:6,8 10,14,18,22; 31:4; 42:8; dirt 118:3 driving 118:5 essentially 28:6; 39:1 72:17; 88:16; 89:5,7,12, disagree 28:3; 114:9,11 dropped 74:18,19 established 39:4; 94:20; 21; 90:13; 91:7,24; disagreement 79:3 druthers 98:14 96:9; 101:12,14; 112:23 94:22; 95:5; 97:5; 98:13; discuss 23:22; 24:1; 28:5; dry 14:21; 19:14; 89:19; et 33:17; 35:12; 37:2; 99:1; 102:15; 103:2; 85:12 110:1; 116:14 69:11; 110:9; 111:3; 108:10; 109:9; 110:5,19; discussed 39:8; 70:14; DUBAJIC 2:21.5; 122:18 114:4,14 111:6,24; 114:13; 115:4, 85:15; 87:20 due 22:10; 46:10; 111:14; even 5:17; 11:5; 29:1; 8,14,17; 116:15; 117:5,7, discussing 28:10; 99:16 118:8 41:22; 48:16,18; 53:4,6; 19,23; 118:5; 119:9 discussion 8:7; 9:7; 30:3; duly 9:20 58:17; 65:7; 70:14; favor 8:9; 9:9; 45:9; 39:19; 44:19; 45:6; dump 92:5; 108:19 71:16; 79:22; 80:6; 54:21; 68:20; 72:7; 73:5 54:18; 65:11; 68:17; duplex 78:1; 105:13 92:10; 94:18; 97:16; features 24:13; 25:7 70:22; 71:7; 72:5; 73:3; duplexes 78:14 98:11; 101:8; 114:10,16 February 9:22; 22:7; 23:2, 77:17; 82:20; 102:1; during 21:18,19; 44:22; evening 13:21; 48:9; 54:2 22; 28:4; 33:13,22; 34:6, 113:8 75:14; 114:22 everybody 68:3; 70:5; 10,11,16; 35:2; 42:14; discussions 31:12; 32:23; ( -------------------------- 101:8; 103:4; 106:3,4; 97:6 72:23; 114:15 E 111:2; 120:10 feel 16:2; 52:20; 81:21; dismantled 64:21 -------------------------- everyone 113:14 87:19; 92:19,21; 111:8 distribute 62:1 each 23:17; 76:23; 107:3 everything 28:9; 98:21; feelings 101:6 distribution 109:4 earlier 16:16; 80:19; 119:16 feet 39:3; 50:11; 81:23; district 14:3,4,21,22; 90:9; 98:3 evidence 10:6; 121:4 82:6 15:18; 16:8,12; 19:4,6,8, easements 15:12; 40:5; evolve 112:8 11,13,17,19; 36:21; I fell 119:2 77:15 � exact 69:4; 111:7 � felt 119:24 41:23; 45:22; 52:6; easily 36:17 exactly 24:22; 75:5; Felts 121:12 53:20,21; 55:8; 70:19; east 45:17; 50:11; 55:9; 88:17; 111:17 fence 46:15; 51:5,19,21; 85:16,17,21,22; 88:8; 61:1,4; 73:13 example 26:8,9,21; 28:12; 59:3,4,6,8; 80:23 95:8,9; 110:6; 116:20; eastern 31:20 ( 85:12 few 10:20; 17:21; 25:2; 120:8,11 easy 8:20 excellent 47:5 59:18; 60:22,23 disturb 58:9 echo 79:7; 99:14 except 28:6 field 110:3; 118:3 ditch 13:1,5; 14:10; ( Edemeir 58:17 exception 35:14; 44:9,10; fields 106:5; 110:1,2; 16:10; 17:8; 108:19; edge 29:13; 31:6 92:12 117:18,20; 118:2,10,14,17 110:14 education 89:11 excuse 33:19 figured 52:23; 59:1 Divide 18:5 effect 68:1; 71:1 executive 95:21 figures 96:12 doctor's 49:4 efforts 53:22 exist 31:14; 32:3 filed 45:18; 55:6 doctors 66:11 egregious 122:4 existing 39:21; 63:3 fill 50:3 document 22:19; 23:15; egress 52:24; 76:22,23 exists 13:10,17 filter 109:13 100:23; 112:8 eight 4:4; 86:19,22; 87:7 exit 41:9; 93:24 final 16:15; 32:23 documentation 41:16; either 15:12; 22:3; 58:20; exits 13:5 find 27:6; 33:7; 98:5 YORKVILL.TXT Page 5 fine 70:5; 71:12,18; gaudy 65:6 -------------------------- 56:24; 74:15,17,22; 75:3; 90:19; 105:20; 111:4; gave 85:4 H 78:10 114:24; 116:16 GAME 59:16,17,23; 60:3,7, -------------------------- housekeeping 8:17; 20:20 finger 13:12 10,19; 61:6,8,13,21,24; half 14:16; 95:14,15; houses 81:8; 118:23 Finish 49:20 62:8; 63:17,19; 64:3,5,10 96:19 housing 94:11; 104:10 finishing 107:22 gazebos 58:8 hamper 64:12 however 20:2; 22:17; 56:2; firm 10:20,22 general 33:10; 38:3; hand 9:17; 59:14; 62:14; 74:11; 77:9; 87:24; first 7:16; 9:21; 19:17; 42:22; 70:19; 95:6 63:1; 65:9; 92:19,24; 105:19; 113:5 24:24; 27:8; 28:17,22; generally 32:13; 35:13; 124:12 huge 65:6 33:11; 36:20; 49:20; 39:16; 41:22,24 handles 41:23 hurry 62:4 51:18; 62:16; 65:12; generations 22:22 happen 73:18; 78:8,18; 96:23; 99:4 generous 21:10 102:19 I fit 33:17; 73:18; 85:7,15; Gengler 1:10; 124:3 happened 24:7; 27:9 -------------------------- 86:17; 88:24; 89:3; 93:8 gentleman 20:10,12; 51:3; happy 7:18; 112:22 idea 66:8; 98:21; 106:4, five 107:2,4 59:14; 65:8; 66:19,24; hard 26:6; 119:4 10; 107:22; 118:1 five-and-a-half 47:5,8 80:19 hard-line 42:1 ideal 47:14 fixed 106:20 gentleman's 62:14 harder 98:11 ideas 12:4 flat 13:9; 84:22 gentlemen 8:16; 117:15; Harold 121:12 identified 91:6,17 flood 14:9; 42:20; 44:2,3; 119:7,15 hat 120:6 identify 5:20; 31:15; 107:9 germane 28:11 hate 92:6 47:16 florist 52:15 Gerry 20:8; 67:3 head 39:20,23 IDOT 41:16,21; 42:5,6; flow 48:20,22; 52:24; gets 53:3; 108:8; 116:24 heading 50:11 46:21; 50:19; 51:11; 106:19 getting 25:13; 67:1; hear 12:10; 28:2; 43:20; 77:10,21; 78:8 flows 37:22; 84:17 77:14; 90:10; 99:7; 44:15; 73:22; 103:13 is 39:23 fly 101:1 101:20; 108:4; 111:19 heard 10:21; 28:22; 36:21; Illinois 1:12; 2:16; 11:3; folks 72:14; 122:13 ghost 111:12 69:8; 103:14; 104:5; 13:9; 57:20; 71:14; follow 117:6 giant 109:20 111:15; 112:5; 116:15 89:11; 120:10; 124:1 followed 32:16 gigantic 66:16 hearing 6:3,5,8; 8:3,9; illustrating 87:19 following 9:18 give 5:17; 7:19; 17:21; 9:2,6,21; 12:22; 20:18; illustration 16:15 foot 15:10,11; 38:8,10,12; 21:22; 24:6; 29:20,23; 21:16,18; 32:8; 44:20,22, illustrative 16:5 40:18,19,22; 41:3; 43:23; 41:24; 42:6; 44:14; 24; 45:1,9,16; 54:6,7,21; imagination 53:19 44:8; 48:11; 92:9; 93:2; 52:20; 62:15; 66:22; 55:4; 61:14; 62:2; 64:7; imagine 122:6 101:5 77:10; 117:3; 121:16 67:22; 68:1,3,6,20; 69:2; immediate 49:6 foregoing 124:8 given 35:9; 40:21; 42:10, 70:17; 71:23; 72:5,11; impact 96:1; 116:2 forget 43:12 20; 44:9; 86:17 82:22; 86:8; 102:8; implore 103:18 forgot 17:5; 74:5 gives 21:24; 79:17 112:19; 121:5 important 14:5; 26:6; 37:6 form 33:9,10; 110:20 giving 44:16; 80:3; 101:20 hearings 120:14; 121:8 impossible 77:16 formality 21:2 Glink 10:21 hears 81:13 impractical 48:16 formally 24:18 got 22:21; 23:4,13; 28:21; heightened 37:15 improperly 89:19 format 122:12 29:17; 66:11; 75:1,20; help 11:20; 29:7; 112:18 improve 106:13 forth 27:22; 43:18; 58:8; 97:4; 99:23; 102:8,13; helped 88:19 improved 14:10 79:22,23; 108:15; 110:14 105:1; 112:14; 119:8 helpful 98:7 improvements 55:24; 58:6 forward 11:17; 12:22; grab 8:19 helps 109:13 inadequate 111:22 103:7; 113:10; 116:5 grade 50:1; 115:3 hereby 124:4 inadvertently 31:13 fought 67:14 Graff 114:18 hereunto 124:11 include 16:6; 25:4; 86:21 four 4:11; 67:6; 91:10; grammatic 4:11 HBSLOP 65:10,14 included 23:17; 32:18; 118:10,19,23 Grand 32:16; 33:15 high 13:2,3; 14:21; 19:14; 42:13 fourth 4:3; 5:18 grandfathered 56:10 20:10; 59:8; 84:13; including 56:24; 88:5 Fox 57:21 grant 80:11 86:15; 89:19; 105:10; inclusion 35:3 fractionally 96:16 great 11:19; 47:6; 63:23; 116:13 incorporate 14:4; 33:5; frame 49:1 81:19 higher 85:1; 104:10 116:16 frankly 21:11; 42:6 green 2:5; 3:3,4,23; 4:3, highest 53:17 incorporated 16:14; 33:1; freestanding 16:9 6,9; 7:6; 8:6; 73:1; Highlands 57:22 109:10 fresh 102:21 74:11,20,23,24; 75:9,16; highway 77:15 incorporates 13:21 Friday 22:12; 28:20 77:9,19,23; 82:24; 83:1; historical 64:23 increased 47:9 friend 60:10 92:9,11,15; 97:6; 101:7; historically 73:15 incur 27:19 front 114:11; 118:22 108:14,18; 109:12,14; HOLDIMM 2:10; 3:12,13; indicated 71:11 frontage 76:9,14 110:4,12 4:5; 83:8,9 information 10:10; 22:2; fruit 98:5; 100:12 Greene 55:6,13,14,18; home 15:19; 34:6; 58:19; 23:3,8,16; 33:6 frustrating 27:4,9,18 56:18; 58:24; 59:22; 64:24; 65:16,18; 66:6,11; initially 57:22 full 7:16; 122:7 60:2,6,9,18; 61:4,7,10; 80:20 instance 74:11 fun 74:3 62:6,17,20; 64:11,14; homeowner 44:12 instead 75:18 function 36:8,10; 109:23; 69:13,15 homeowner's 19:7 intelligent 69:12 120:15 greenway 106:16,17; 107:18 homeowners 118:24 intend 103:6 fundamental 38:21 gridlock 48:17 homes 18:15; 57:9,10; intended 30:2,3 further 8:7; 44:19,22; gross 17:24; 34:24 61:9,11; 107:23; 108:9,12 intense 106:15 45:6; 54:18; 61:18; grossly 111:21 homework 27:6 intent 25:13; 94:20; 95:5; 68:17; 70:15; 71:7; 72:5; group 41:19; 103:9 hope 26:14; 43:16; 101:11 98:17; 102:16 73:3; 82:19; 84:4,5,6 growth 116:19 hopefully 12:4; 23:11; intention 50:20 future 108:2,8 guarantee 77:12 78:20; 119:24 interest 100:10 FYI 23:15 guess 3:2; 24:2; 25:22; hoping 10:12; 14:13 interested 115:10 -------------------------- 41:11; 42:12; 62:19; horse 92:7; 119:4 intermediate 84:14 G 70:1; 88:13; 98:14 horses 91:23 interpret 43:17 -------------------------- guy 81:9 hot 105:1; 112:14,15 interruption 43:1 Galena 12:14 guys 53:23; 100:20; 101:2; hour 1:11 intersect 55:10 game 1:11; 26:18; 120:17 102:5 hours 75:12,15; 101:24 intersection 13:18; 53:24; garage 50:12 gymnasium 52:15; 122:7 house 46:16; 47:6; 49:23; 77:13 gas-petroleum 70:20 50:4; 51:13,14; 55:19; introduce 10:1; 24:18 YORKVILL.TXT Page 6 introduction 10:11; 37:3; 28:8; 29:10,14; 31:9,24; letter 23:10,18; 24:19; 63:15; 84:5; 93:23; 43:14 36:7; 54:15; 71:2,4; 56:20 103:8,9,19,20 inundated 109:24 75:20; 76:17; 77:1,8; letting 73:16 long-time 20:1 invented 11:2 78:6; 80:10; 83:14,15,22; level 100:16; 113:10 longer 28:11 investment 79:16 93:3,16,22; 94:2,15; liaison 86:9 longest 72:3 involve 82:17 95:3,16; 101:19; 111:10, library 52:15 look 20:3; 26:3; 33:12; involved 25:3 16; 112:4,10; 113:13,14; life 63:20 37:11,15; 41:22; 60:14; involves 113:6,7 122:22 light 48:19; 53:7 61:15,17,19,23; 74:10; isn't 19:4; 101:1; 115:10 Xubala's 76:19 likelihood 82:12 77:12,13; 92:12; 101:8; issue 25:24; 26:1,17; -------------------------- likely 90:1,4; 108:9,11 112:13 28:11; 64:9; 68:12; 70:4, L limit 12:17; 94:2,15; looked 46:10; 47:2; 50:7; 6; 71:13; 82:8; 86:11; -------------------------- 122:5 51:16; 60:17,19,23 93:6; 94:4,8; 106:11; L-A-N-N-B-R-T 5:22 limited 45:22; 52:5,9; looking 11:17; 13:19; 114:14 LA 16:22; 19:1; 27:24; 55:8 17:21; 43:8; 49:2; 51:10; issues 22:4,15; 39:15,16; 28:16; 29:3,6,22; 30:1, limiting 86:13 66:4; 86:18,23; 90:2; 44:15; 60:23; 62:22,23; 10,14,18,22; 31:4; 42:8; limits 92:20 94:9,12; 95:12; 98:8,9, 63:1,5,8,22; 75:10; 72:17; 88:16; 89:5,7,12, LINDBLOM 2:2; 3:1,5,9,11, 12; 103:2; 105:18; 116:19 98:16; 117:15 21; 90:13; 91:7,24; 14,16,18,20,22,24; 4:6,8, looks 20:1; 39:22; 56:2; item 83:23 94:22; 95:5; 97:5; 98:13; 10,22; 5:4,10,14,19,24; 58:24 items 21:15; 23:23 99:1; 102:15; 103:2; 6:11,23; 7:4,7,13,18,22; loop 97:19 iteration 93:4 108:10; 109:9; 110:5,19; 8:1,7,13,15; 9:5,13,21; lose 96:14 iterations 98:10 111:6,24; 114:13; 115:4, 16:20,23; 17:3; 18:13,23; lot 7:20; 11:4; 26:12; itself 12:24; 46:13 8,14,17; 116:15; 117:5,7, 20:6,11,15,21; 21:13,21; 28:13; 38:18,24; 40:4; -------------------------- 19,23; 118:5; 119:9 24:2; 25:8,22; 26:17,24; 42:19; 43:15; 48:5; J labeled 13:16 32:7; 33:19; 34:3,8,15; 49:13,14,22; 51:20; -------------------------- Ladies 8:16 41:5; 42:24; 43:4; 44:18; 52:24; 53:1; 55:24; JACK 2:13; 3:9; 54:15; lady 121:3 45:5,13; 46:3,17,19; 66:10; 77:7; 79:3; 98:19; 92:17 LaFave 11:21; 19:1; 27:24 47:15,19; 48:2; 49:19; 100:6; 102:23; 103:11,21; JEFF 2:12; 3:16; 19:16; laid 34:21 52:5,20; 53:8,10; 54:1,4, 105:10; 109:15 41:7; 53:12; 73:24 Lake 11:12 10,16; 55:1,16; 56:19; lots 15:10,11; 38:9,10,12, Jeffrey 17:6 land 10:13; 13:9; 15:8; 58:21; 59:13; 60:4; 16; 39:2; 40:19,22; 41:3; Jim 60:7 18:20; 19:4,5,23; 35:10, 61:19,22; 62:9,19; 63:18; 43:23; 44:8,10,11,13; Jo 57:19 19; 37:4; 44:12; 50:1; 64:3,8,11,16; 65:8,12; job 11:13 57:1; 78:3; 88:9,21; 92:9; 93:2; 107:10,12,19; 66:23; 67:10,20; 68:15, � 118:19 Joe 48:1,2; 58:17 94:17,23,24; 95:4,7,13, 24; 69:5,21; 70:10; 71:4, Lou 10:24 joint 85:13; 96:15 14; 114:4 11,13,19; 72:2,11,18; love 43:2; 47:7; 55:21; joking 122:1 landscape 81:16 73:2,9,21,24; 74:2,8; 106:4 JONES 2:13; 3:9,10; 4:6; landscaping 82:11 75:1; 79:2; 80:8,16; low 13:5; 84:12,22; 110:16 54:8,15; 68:8; 73:15; LANNBRT 5:12,15,21; 11:22; 81:1,4; 82:19; 83:2,4,6, lower 20:4; 47:1; 105:17; 77:17; 80:9; 83:6,7; 12:2,8; 17:10,19,23; 8,10,12,14,16,18,20,23; 109:18 86:16,21; 92:18 18:9; 19:12,13,22; 29:9, 84:7; 85:3,8,17; 88:13; lowest 84:23 justification 38:23 12,15; 31:5,11,18; 33:24; 92:6,14; 93:15; 95:20,23; LUCIETTO 2:9; 3:7,8; 4:5, justify 44:5 84:14,19; 85:1,5,11,19; 99:12,15; 100:8; 101:18; 16,18,24; 6:10; 7:3; 9:4; -------------------------- 87:2,7,9,14; 88:11; K � 102:2; 103:1; 104:22; � 32:5; 34:5; 45:3,5; 54:9, 93:19; 95:9; 96:12; 105:3,6; 110:10,22; 13; 71:24; 72:20; 77:6, -------------------------- 97:11; 106:10; 108:5,22; 111:2; 113:18,21; 115:2, 11; 79:4,14; 83:4,5; K-L-A-R-B-N 120:9 109:22; 110:17; 117:8,11; 5; 117:3,6,10,12; 119:6, 88:3,8; 90:8,15,19; 91:2, keep 37:18,23; 46:6; 119:1; 120:23 10,21; 120:2; 122:14,17, 8,12; 92:1; 94:1; 101:17 49:10; 51:23; 60:5; large 14:3; 48:10 19,24 LYNN 2:21.5; 122:17 64:19,22; 67:1; 75:5; larger 44:13; 68:12; 89:1, line 7:1; 13:11; 26:10,19; -------------------------- 86:7; 92:6,20; 98:23; 4 63:4; 105:24 M 106:12 largest 107:15 lines 12:17; 69:10; 84:11; -------------------------- keeper 120:18 last 6:13; 11:5; 14:13; 106:18,19 made 5:1; 11:19; 25:11; keeping 37:16; 57:13; 74:9 20:12; 22:7,11,12; 23:13; lineup 75:11 27:22; 30:3; 51:12; 67:1; RSNDALL 124:2 25:10; 28:20; 36:18; Lisle 122:3 68:15; 72:13; 73:2; KERRY 2:5; 3:3; 4:6,8 38:8; 39:6,20; 44:6; list 65:15 95:24; 97:11; 104:6 key 34:22 46:22; 83:23; 93:4; 120:9 listen 102:17 magazine 52:16 kiddy-corner 48:4 late 28:20; 63:10 listening 14:7; 22:14 mailings 99:22; 100:3 kids 29:18; 65:4; 117:22; later 6:19; 18:12; 42:13 literally 11:8 main 53:7,13 118:4,5 latest 34:11; 111:9 little 18:21; 20:2,10; maintain 93:12 kind 46:14; 49:1; 50:9; LAURA 2:20.5; 95:21,23,24; 24:12; 43:2; 44:17; 50:9; maintained 62:23 55:20; 62:24; 76:22 122:15 55:9; 60:22; 66:16; 67:5; majority 107:20 kinds 43:9 law 2:15; 10:19,20,21; 75:23; 76:11; 84:12; management 17:12,17; KING 2:6; 3:14,15; 4:5; 11:1,2 ( 85:22,23; 86:1; 88:13; 7:24; 34:2; 83:10,11 lawyers 66:11 many 9; 43: 91:2; 92:18; 110:13; � many 11:9; 43:7; 77:13; Kingamill 57:20; 67:14 layman's 120:16 122:12 81:22,23; 82:5; 97:18,24; Klaren 120:9; 121:2,10,24 leads 116:5 live 53:12; 57:20; 67:4; 113:15 knowing 98:11 League 120:10 70:8; 80:6; 118:9 March 1:10; 23:14; 56:23 known 10:24; 12:13; 49:1 learn 26:16 lived 63:19 marry 101:23 KRAMER 2:15,16.5; 11:9; learned 11:4,7 lives 81:12; 91:22 marsh 109:18 21:17; 31:15,23; 41:21; least 42:15; 44:7; 46:12; living 66:3 materials 33:4; 103:15 57:24; 69:4; 81:14,20; 59:8; 70:7; 77:19; 79:17; located 12:13,14; 52:13; matter 1:9; 10:4; 66:15; 82:5,10,14; 86:24; 89:10; 80:3; 98:20 57:1; 70:18; 71:17 70:6; 123:2 92:2; 119:23; 120:6 leave 94:4; 106:17,18,19 location 13:11,15; 14:2; MAYOR 2:19.5; 101:11; XUBALA 2:7; 3:18,19; 4:5, left 31:13; 48:19; 66:19 15:17; 30:16,18; 39:17; 119:13; 122:3 15; 5:5; 6:2,13,24; 7:5, legislative 120:15 88:12; 96:7; 108:24; McArthur 91:18,21 9,15,21; 8:5; 20:17; less 39:3; 40:20; 56:15; 109:1; 115:1 mean 26:20; 28:5; 70:4,5; 21:14,24; 22:20; 23:1,19; 95:4 long 14:14; 26:11; 51:17; 76:18; 95:2; 98:10; YORKVILL.TXT Page 7 114:14 16,19; 55:3; 67:24; 68:1, networks 116:6 44:20,24; 45:15; 46:3,17; Meandering 108:24; 110:21 6,15,18,24; 71:1,6,7,22; new 6:20,24; 7:6; 12:3; 47:15,19; 52:19; 54:3; meaning 63:23; 86:1; 89:23 72:4,6,19,20; 73:2,11; 14:22; 23:8,14,24; 24:5; 55:16; 56:19; 58:21; means 64:20; 65:5; 81:2,4; 80:8,9,11,14,15; 82:20; 27:7; 37:4; 65:1; 72:21; 59:13,23; 60:6; 64:10,16; 120:16 122:20 93:4,13; 94:21; 112:13; 66:23; 67:20; 69:2,21; measure 34:21 mouth 76:19 121:4 70:13; 71:21; 73:12; mechanism 40:11 move 12:5,22; 20:17; 37:1, new-found 23:3 78:12,15; 89:21; 93:15; medical 52:16 19; 75:8; 94:18; 99:2; next 6:11; 7:9; 33:12; 102:4; 105:14; 110:4; meet 14:6; 94:20; 100:2; 103:11,12,17,23; 106:1,2; 45:16; 61:9,10,15; 62:2; 114:10; 117:3; 119:8,21; 111:3 113:17 64:7; 66:9,20; 67:22; 122:14,24 meeting 1:5,8; 3:1; 4:1, moved 8:5; 9:3,5; 20:9; 68:7; 70:11,17; 77:15; old 55:21; 63:20; 92:5; 20,23; 5:1,3; 22:7; 45:3; 54:8,16; 71:2,6,24; 78:2,16; 80:9,20; 81:9; 106:10; 120:6 25:10; 27:5,15,17; 36:19; 72:4; 103:9; 122:22 101:15; 104:2; 111:4; Olson 60:7 39:13,14,20; 66:21; moving 11:18; 37:22; 49:3; 117:8 once 20:22,23; 28:1; 42:3; 70:12,22,23; 88:16; 103:6; 104:13 nice 20:1; 60:15; 67:5; 110:5; 112:2; 114:3; 99:19,21; 100:4; 101:16; MS. 2:9,20.5,21.5; 3:8; 89:4; 106:5 I 117:19 112:14; 119:11; 121:12; 4:16,24; 6:10; 7:3; 9:4; Nicola 1:9; 124:3 one 4:3,4; 8:16; 11:9; 122:2; 123:1 32:5; 34:5; 45:3; 46:18, nitch 91:3 12:3; 15:20,22,24; 22:1, Mejer 122:2 20; 49:9; 51:2; 54:9,13; No. 1:10; 31:19,21; 38:10, 23; 24:20; 25:18; 27:17; member 11:11; 58:16 57:19; 64:19; 67:11; 11,12; 41:10; 59:19; 28:16; 34:1,2,3,4,22; members 9:19; 26:4; 56:22; 71:24; 72:20; 77:6,11; 67:17; 105:1; 124:3 36:14,15,24; 37:6; 40:11; 61:13; 69:7; 73:14; 84:2; 79:4,14; 81:11; 83:5; nobody 59:10; 65:21; 69:18 41:18; 42:8; 44:21; 114:15; 121:19 88:3,8; 90:8,15,19; 91:2, noise 56:15 49:19; 53:14; 54:10; memo 7;10,11; 28:21; 32:6; 8,12; 92:1; 94:1; 95:17, noncompliant 51:5 58:11; 60:12,24; 62:22; 38:15; 90:11,16,18,20; 21; 96:5,11; 101:17; none 8:3,9; 44:24; 45:9; 63:22; 65:1; 67:10,12,14; 94:5; 102:21; 115:18 122:16,18 54:6,21; 68:20; 82:22 68:13; 74:13; 75:23; memos 7:12 much 13:9; 19:5; 20:4; nor 85:16 76:23; 78:5; 80:6,13; message 85:24 25:6; 31:23; 35:9,10,11; normally 38:22; 99:22 82:15; 90:12; 92:18; met 11:21; 66:7 37:18; 42:20; 47:2; north 12:24; 13:3; 15:3, 93:17,24; 94:1; 96:18,21; MICHAEL 2:3 49:23; 51:1; 52:22; 53:8; 10,21; 16:11; 40:8; 97:5; 98:10; 99:18,22,23; middle 13:2,8; 86:14; 62:3,4; 63:20; 67;4,8; 49:15,16; 50:8; 53:14,15; 100:23; 101:1,19; 102:12; 89:2,3 100:16,21; 120:10 70:18; 75:23; 76:4,21; 104:5; 107:3; 110:23; might 5:6; 10:16; 33:7; multi 104:15; 105:22,24; 78:13,14,20; 84:19,20 113:12; 115:8; 117:14 69:11; 80:23; 103:5; 106:2 north-south 31:21; 85:14 one-family 45:21 116:5 multifamily 15:16; 18:2; north/south 30:11 one-sixteenth 55:22 MIKE 2:8; 3:20; 28:12; 36:12; 105:11; 107:7; northeast 37:8; 47:18,19 ones 37:6; 67:1; 74:12 32:11; 33:19; 40:14; 108:1 northern 32:3 only 6:22; 7:2,8; 13:24; 41:6; 84:3,7; 90:1; 93:9; multiplex 31:21; 105:1,12 northwest 39:10; 84:18 21:5; 23:15; 27:19; 94:5; 96:12; 97:15; multitude 79:20 note 57:24; 77:2; 100:24 34:10; 41:18; 42:3; 44:9; 100:11; 107:1; 114:4; municipal 10:21; 11:1,2; nothing 27:4; 120:16 57:5; 59:11; 70:3; 73:19; 115:11; 120:23 120:10 notice 70:16 85:10; 88:1,24; 92:16; Mike's 32:8; 34:9; 90:13; must 99:23; 120:12 noticed 41:8 94:9; 101:20; 103:5; 100:23 myself 10:1; 24:18 notification 10:6 107:14; 118:20,21 MILLER 48:1,3; 49:12,18, -------------------------- notwithstanding 98:2 open 14:21,24; 15:21; 22; 50:23; 52:1,7,19,22; N novo 120:22 16:15; 18:5; 19:4; 21:5; 53:9 -------------------------- number 5:11,15,18; 11:6; 35:9,11,16; 36:7; 38:22; million 30:5 name 5:21; 10:1; 17:4; 14:7; 15:2; 17:24; 20:4; 39:1,15; 40:7,15,17,20, mind 37:16; 49:3; 64:20; 20:8; 26:24; 47:24; 51:3; 36:15; 52:4; 86:7; 87:5; 21; 41:1; 43:24; 44:11; 117:16; 119:7 53:12; 57:17,19; 59:16; 89:2; 96:3; 109:7; 46:6; 49:11; 51:24; mine 60:10 62:15,17; 65:12,14,15; 115:23; 116:21 93:12; 107:21 minimizing 44:8,10 67:3; 69:23; 72:3; 120:9 number's 26:18 opened 10:5 minutes 4:1; 8:4,15; 122:6 named 92:2 numbers 5:16; 10:16; 16:1; operate 25:24 missing 7:13; 119:3 natural 16:13; 106:12 35:23; 36:14,17; 96:15; operating 100:13 mistaken 78:13 naturally 84:9 105:23; 114:2,5,6 opinion 21:10; 100:22; misunderstanding 22:21 nay 41:24 -------------------------- 111:12 Mitch 11:21; 16:21; 18:23; near 29:6 0 opportunity 24:18; 27:8; 19:1; 26:8; 27:24; 121:20 necessarily 76:8; 104:20; -------------------------- 29:21,24; 79:17; 80:3; mix 104:15; 105:21; 106:9 121:15,18 objections 72:15 101:21 Mizel 3:11 necessary 26:11; 50:21 obligation 96:9 oppose 65:2 modern 11:2 neck 53:18 obligations 95:13 opposed 8:13; 9:13; 45:13; modified 13:20 need 23:1; 32:24; 36:24; obtain 61:24 55:1; 68:24; 73:9; 76:22; Molly 45:17,24; 46:1,19 37:11,13,15; 42:19,23; obtained 59:21 80:4; 120:15 moment 26:9; 116:8 43:4; 53:23; 63:1; 78:3; obviously 14:5; 37:5; opposite 76:21 Monday 99:23 81:23; 86:15; 89:1; 86:12; 96:13; 106:24 option 42:16; 51:17 money 58:6; 70:6; 102:23 94:13; 100:22; 103:15; occur 57:7 options 46:6; 49:11; 51:24 month 23:13; 61:15; 62:2; 105:24; 112:11,17; occurring 29:13 oranges 98:4; 100:12 64:7,12; 66:9; 67:22; 114:20; 115:12; 116:22; occurs 79:10; 106:23 order 3:2; 31:3; 72:14,19; 68:7,14; 100:24; 102:7; 118:15; 119:7 Ocean 5:6,7,10,22; 6:16; 96:14; 103:17 111:4; 112:3 needs 23:6; 32:2; 47:10; 9:23; 10:3; 11:21; 19:1; orderly 120:1 month's 25:10; 66:21; 55:24; 94:8,14 20:23; 24:3; 25:23; ordinance 33:5; 81:16; 70:11 neighborhood 15:4,6,11; 27:24; 40:11; 72:16,23 88:22; 95:1,14; 96:10 months 20:9; 55:19; 56:1; 19:6; 29:20; 30:7; 34:19; odd 18:15 ordinances 81:22 102:5,6 37:19,20,24; 38:4,5,9,11, office 22:8; 49:4; 52:17; original 106:16 mornings 48:9 12,18; 65:4; 66:1; 91:14; 65:6; 82:7,15; 101:15 originally 55:22 most 10:1; 38:15; 41:23; 107:17,20 OFFICES 2:15 other 4:11,14; 5:24; 7:22; 107:1 1 neighborhoods 37:12 okay 3:24; 16:23; 19:24; 8:16; 10:8,10; 15:13,15; motion 4:4; 6:3,4,7; 8:3; neighbors 61:16; 62:1 20:6; 21:21; 25:6; 30:23; 19:12; 20:6,16; 21:15; 9:2,8,15; 45:1,7; 54:7, net 17:24 34:16; 36:6; 41:4; 42:24; 24:19; 25:2; 33:4; 35:8; YORRVILL.TXT Page 8 36:8,10; 37:3,4; 40:5; I 79:22; 81:16,23; 82:3,16; 78:7; 100:4; 107:10 I post 52:17 I 41:5; 42:8; 52:14; 53:10; 111:22; 117:17 I plan 1:5; 5:17; 6:17; postpone 61:14; 62:2; 68:6 54:4; 57:6,8,9; 58:11; I parks 39:17; 88:9; 106:5 13:19,21; 14:1,3,6,15; I postponed 69:3 74:12; 68:11; 5 :23; 76:34, part 13:16,17; 17:17; i 15:15; 16:2,3; 21:6; postponing 64:6; 67:22 26:17; 32:14,18,22,23; 22:16; 23:14,22; 24:10; I potential 116:19 I 81:24; 90:21; 92:24; 34:20; 36:16; 39:22; I 25:5,18; 26:1; 27:12; I potentially 110:3; 116:22 I 93:13; 95:15; 96:19; I 50:5; 52:1; 53:19; 84:21; 28:4,5; 29:11,14,15,16; practices 109:11 I 100:15; 101:23; 103:14; 85:1; 87:12,16; 109:3; I 30:2,16; 31:12,13; 32:15, I precedent 73:17; 92:8 I 115:8; 117:15; 119:6; I 113:6; 120:11 17,19,23; 33:2,10,13,14, Prefer 86:6 120:17,19,22; 121:4,10,16 partial 36:11 17,22; 34:11,14,17; 35:1, preference 9 5:3 I others 8:1 I particular 116:10 ought 75:17 2.8,14,17; 38:17,20; prefers 86:4 pass 8:22; 13:23 I 39:5,8,14; 41:13,22; I preliminary 32:17,21; out 3 238 ;140817; 1245 ; I passed 6:4; 9:15; 11:3; � 42:1,14; 43:7,11,13,19; I 33:7,8; 42:1,4; 43:11,20; 22:18; 55:3 I 50:4,6; 56:22; 60:14,17, I 19:10; 20:2; 21:14; passes 73:11 I 46:10,22; 50:6; 1 I 20,24; 61:2,3,16,20,23; I 103:12,20; 110:133;; 11212::77, I 22:18; 24:15; 25:7,23; I passing 8:19; 68:1 I 73:20; 74:7; 75:4; 80:18; I 20; 113:3,5,6,7,16 I I 28:21; 29:10; 31:5; 34:4, past 92:12; 99:8 89:22; 90:23; 91:6; 93:5, premium 110:2 21; 35:17; 37:20; 43:15; I path 31:9,11,12,18; 32:2; 10; 94:17,19,21; 96:13, I present 2:1,18.5; 79:12, I 46:7; 48:15; 50:5; 53:4, 117:6 I 20; 97:3,13,16,17; 98:14, 21; 99:4 I 6,19; 55:23; 57:5; 64:1; I pathway 76:2 65:15; 69:9; 70:5; 74:24; � 17,18,19; 99:17; 101:8, I presentation 12:10; 16:18; I pay 51:21 I 16; 103:20,21; 111:7,9, I 22:14 I 67:23; 93:17; 97:17; I PC2002-06 9:22; 45:2; 11,17; 112:3,6,7,20; I presented 7:2; 21:1; I 98:20; 102:21; 103:11,23; 72:22 I 113:2,3,5,7,15,16; 114:7, I 22:23; 100:24 I I 106:2; 107:2,12,22; PC2003-01 45:16; 72:21; I 23; 116:4; 121:8,13,17 109:15,19 I 73:12 I presently 58:4 I planners 14:12 i press 112:14,16 I I outlined 12:17; 38:17 PC2003-02 55:5 I planning 5:22; 11:12; outside 39:23 pretty 13:9; 44:6; 47:9, I pedestrian 29:4,8; 30:4, 21:8; 36:19; 38:19; 59:3 I 13; 49:23; 52:22; 55:23; I over 112:9; 13:20;14 :20, 22; 31:18; 42:17; 48:11, I plans 5:15,16; 13:23; I 63:20; 78:10; 94:12; I I 22; 115:14 16:2,15; 22:5,6,8,12; 120:10 59:15; 62:7,14; 63:3; pedestrians 29:18 I 23:13,24; 24:5; 32:21; I previous 4:1,18,20,23,24; I 67:2; 87:4; 91:12; 92:22; I people 10:2; 18:16; 20:4; 33:7,8; 46:10,23; 48:18; 5:1,2; 10:6; 14:8; 22:4; 111:23; 116:24; 120:24 I 37:1,22; 39:23; 40:2; 49:7; 50:21; 51:12; I 31:12; 32:1 overstating 24:23 57:15; 59:1,6; 66:7,10, 64:13; 93:20; 97:9,12; previously 1 0:5; 12:15,21;own 19:8; 48:23; 53:13; 11; 68:11; 75:24; 76:6; I 98:1; 107:17 I 13:13; 124:9 I 59:17; 76:23; 91:19,22 96:3; 100:21; 118:9,11, I planting 16:13 I I Pride 70:18,2 2 owned 91:18; 92:3 19,21; 120:23; 121:14; plat 91:17 Primarily 48:2 1 owners 14:11; 57:2; 78:3; 122;8 play 27:16; 40:12; 46:8; primary 37:10 79:13 people's 101:23 65:4,7; 110:8 principal 67:16 owns 59:20; 91:15 I Per 34:23 I playground 52:17 I prior 11:19 I -------------------------- percent 34:7; 35:18,24; I please 5:19; 8:19; 17:3; i private 11 :6; 16:7 I P I 36:6; 95:6,7; 111:7,10, 20:13; 25:4; 30:8,12; privately 120:18 I I -------------------------- 17; 112:5 I p.m. 1:11 I 49:20; 57:18; 62:15; privilege 10:23 I percentage 36:1; 96:19 64:3; 65:13; 113:13; I probably 5:13; 7:10; 8:20, i packet 13:22; 22:3; 23:4; perfect 73:18; 89:20 I 115:2 I 23; 47:14;27:15; 34:2,4; perhaps 26:22; 27:3,11; plenty 56:9; 111:15 56:16;63:10;6 6:20;97:14 29:1,7; 31:17; I 33:4; I poacher 120:17 I 70:14; 77:20,21; 79:19; I packets 23:10,18; 26:3; I 36:15; 78:21; 82:15; pocket 43:3 I 84:14; 101:4; 120:16; I 97:17; 101:20 I 105:16; 108:2,8; 112:19 I pod 15:16; 31:19,21; 97:8; I 122:7 pad 8:22 1 period 11:3,24; 101:16 107:8 problem 58:15,18,20; page 4:3,17; 5:7; 6:2,20; PERKINS 20:8,14; 67:3 I pods 15:14,20,22; 31:17 I 67:19; 68:11,13; 113:12;7:3,4,5,15; 98:11 permit 42:6; 81:21 point 11:5; 13:2,3,5; I � 119:16 paid 19:23 I person 49.19 I painted 58:7; 74:22 � 14:17; 16:21; 19:3,10; I problems 60:22; 79:21; I personal 48:23; 124:7 I 24:15; 25:8,9,23; 29:10; I 93:7,13,23 panel 44:6 I personally 48:6 34:9; 40:9; 41:17; 42:9; I procedural 113:12 I Pantry 70:18,22 persons 122:5 I 43:15; 46:5; 49:8; 56:10; I procedure 21:2; 119:23; I I paper 114:10 I perspective 31:24 57:4,8; 64:9; 66:24; I 120:4 paragraph 4:4; 5:7,9; I pertaining 60:15 I 68:5; 71:8; 77:17; 79:11; I procedures 99:4; 112:22 I I 6:12,14,21,24; 7:9,16 I pertinent 64:18 84:12,13; 97:18; 99:6; I proceeding 10:3; 11:18; I paraphrase 114:19 petitioner 9:23; 20:24; I 101:9; 106:20; 114:22; I 24:19; 43:14 I parcel 13:14; 15:3; 88:5, I 60:5; 121:16 115:12 I proceedings 1:8; 124:4,9 24; 92:3 Petitioner's 45:18; 55:6 pointed 14:8; 21:14; 107:2 I I process 10:12; 11:16; I I parcels 15:3,8; 18:2 I phase 114:1 pointing 25:7; 87:11 25:21; 32:16; 36:16; 64:4 I parents 37:2; 118:6 I phone 60:11 I points 36:2; 41:19 I PROCHASXA 2:19.5; 119:13 I park 13:16; 14:2,3,21; I photography 52:16 I policies 38:19; 39:4 16:8,9,11; 17:8,10,13; I phrase 109:11 I produce 63:12 I I policy 38:21; 115:20 I product 15:20; 35:12,15, 16:20; 19:4,6,8,11,13,17, pick-up 110:8 popular 122:7 I 20; 36:4; 94:7 19,20; 20:3; 31:2,6; picked 17:17; 67:15 I population 89:10 I productively 12:5 39:13,15,16,20,21,24; piece 13:15; 80:5; 108:3; portion 12:19; 13:12; products 113:8 I 44:1; 65:22,24; 74:15; 114:10 I 15:15; 45:1,15; 54:7; professional 52:17; 66:11 I I 85:13,16; 87:2,4,12,16, I pieces 85:15 78:9; 84:23; 94:5; 95:10; I professionals 100:20 I 17; 88:7,11; 94:24; 95:8, pigs 67:8 97:19,20; 107:14,15; I progress 11:19 I 9,13,18,22; 96:2,7,15; i pile 13:10 I 119:11 I project 33:14,16; 34:23; 106:5; 107:21; 109:4,17; pink 93:10 position 66:2 I 35:13,19; 39:22; 113:2,9 I 110:5; 111:21,24; 112:1; I place 14:18; 55:21; 57:14; I positive 42:4; 77:2 I I Projected 114:3; 116:15,21,22 65:3; 107:5; 116:1; possible 11:24; 14:10; projects 37:17; 95:11 parked 57:6 118:21; 119:16; I 124:9 I 37:19; 71:16; 106:13 prominent 107:1 I parking 40:3,4; 53:1; ( places 103:14 possibl y 60:13; 78:20; 56:7; 59:2,10; 70:6; plain 14:9; 42:20; 44:2,3; I lOS:li I Promise 103:13 promoting 110:21 YORRVILL.TRT Page 9 properly 71:17 quickly 25:12; 102:18 relative 23:2; 35:22; 45:2 rezone 45:20; 55:7; 57:2 properties 76:4; 78:22 quiet 74:2 relaying 85:23 rezoned 51:8; 53:16 property 12:12,14,15; quite 22:21; 40:16; 65:5 relook 89:22 rezoning 47:22; 53:22; 13:5,6,7,13,16; 14:9,10, quoting 89:19; 116:13 remainder 23:5 72:14; 73:13 11; 15:1; 16:2; 17:14; -------------------------- I remaining 15:13 rid 5:1 19:11; 46:12; 48:6; 50:7, R remember 11:1; 51:3; 63:24 ride 29:21 10,22; 51:4; 53:14,18; -------------------------- remodeled 109:23 rightfully 120:13 55:5,18; 56:7,24; 57:3, Rl 55:7 renew 98:3 road 1:11; 12:14; 28:13, 14,23; 58:8; 59:5,7,9,10, R2 45:21; 80:11 renovations 14:23 19,24; 32:2; 37:11; 38:1, 11,18,20; 60:16; 61:1,4, rail 59:6 rent 51:8 3; 46:13; 50:7,9; 51:1; 10; 62:24; 63:4,14,15,23; rain 109:19 rental 74:17 55:11; 65:17; 76:14,21; 64:20,22; 69:10,16,17,19, rains 110:3 reopened 6:9 78:10; 85:15; 90:11; 24; 71:15; 75:21; 76:10; raise 9:17 repair 52:15 91:3; 93:17; 106:2,8; 78:9,14; 79:10; 80:4,5, ran 35:21 repairs 52:18 111:18; 114:1; 116:6 12,24; 84:13,24; 85:2; rather 4:11; 6:8; 21:10; repeat 9:17 road-crossing 28:23 90:22; 91:1,15,16,20; 23:4; 33:9; 38:5; 42:10; replace 42:17 roadways 107:1 104:19; 108:3,12; 110:6; 56:13; 67:4,7; 101:24; replaced 6:22 Rob 13:1; 32:4; 108:15,19 118:11,20,21 107:2 REPORT 1:8 Robert 45:17,24; 46:1 proposal 16:6 re-engineering 71:16 reporter 12:11; 31:16; role 112:18 propose 42:2 react 102:16 119:24; 120:5; 121:7; roll 3:2; 82:22; 104:2 proposed 29:4; 39:3; 41:2 read 45:18; 52:10; 56:21; 124:14.5 Ronald 65:14 proposing 77:1 75:4 reports 22:10 rooftops 109:15 protect 80:24 reads 7:10 represent 93:10 room 56:9 protected 107:21 ready 64:9; 113:10 representatives 50:19 Rosenthal 92:4 provide 33:16; 76:23; real 20:3; 24:14; 46:21; representing 45:23; 55:13 Route 12:15; 13:8; 15:7, 110:7 63:8 request 28:23; 32:15; 22; 41:9; 46:9; 47:17; provided 10:7; 22:3,9,13; realize 110:12 67:21; 72:13 49:14; 50:9; 55:5,9,10; 35:22; 38:22; 75:24; really 26:11; 47:13; 48:7; requested 24:14; 27:13; ( 57:1; 59:12; 67:15; 76:1; 94:17; 95:14 53:17; 64:14; 66:7; 70:7; 85:18 74:12; 79:9; 107:9 providing 85:6 79:12; 80:6; 82:9; 88:23; requesting 70:19 row 102:5 Proximity 30:19 93:24; 98:5,7; 104:2; require 99:4 rows 8:23 prudent 28:4 118:2 required 38:23; 82:16; Roy 13:1; 32:4; 55:6,12, public 6:3,5,8; 9:2,6,21; Realtor 74:18 102:20 14; 56:18; 58:22,24; 16:7,24; 20:7,17; 21:16, Realtors 58:19 requirement 88:20,21; 59:22; 60:2,6,9,18; 61:4, 18; 32:8; 44:12,20,22; reason 56:5,6 96:2,4 7,10; 62:6; 64:14; 69:15; 45:1,16; 47:22; 54:7; reasonable 18:20; 107:24; requirements 21:6; 81:16; 108:15,19 55:4; 56:19; 61:14; 62:2; 121:22; 122:10 109:4 rule 69:11 64:7; 67:22; 68:3,6; reasons 37:11 Reserve 32:16; 33:15 run 40:4; 50:8,23; 109:12; 70:17; 71:23; 72:5,11; rebut 102:15 residence 45:21; 46:16; 121:11 102:8; 117:20,21; 120:14; rebuttal 102:11 47:3 running 19:10; 40:8; 121:8 recall 5:11 resident 19:24; 20:1; 49:15,16; 78:16 PUD 32:14; 42:3 receive 27:6 57:21 runs 13:2; 110:15 puddle 109:20 received 22:11; 24:20; residential 17:20; 35:4; -------------------------- pull 53:4,6 56:20 57:5,11,13; 60:21; 61:8, S pump 10:15 recent 58:18 11; 66:13,19; 73:16; purchased 56:24; 57:9,10; recently 53:16; 56:24; 74:10; 75:8; 78:12; 79:11 S-P-A-N-G 17:6 69:24 69:24; 71:19 residents 18:7; 56:21; sac 97:19,21 purple 108:10 recess 43:4 57:7,9,10; 63:9; 110:8 sacs 93:23 purpose 118:14 recognize 26:5 respect 7:19; 94:24; safety 48:21,22 pursue 61:17 recognizing 103:19 111:14; 118:8 sake 82:3 push 92:20,21 recommend 21:17,20; 23:21 respectfully 99:12 salad 98:5; 100:12 put 5:2; 14:11; 21:12; recommendation 21:9; 36:2 respond 42:11; 49:21; sales 52:12 24:13; 28:10; 32:24; recommended 89:11; 94:6 102:18 same 11:8,9; 22:2; 24:4, 34:1; 42:17,18; 46:14; recommending 95:12; 121:6 response 8:2,8,14; 9:14; 20; 28:6; 30:15; 33:15; 49:7; 51:5; 56:11; 58:8; record 4:10; 5:20; 10:7,9; 44:23; 45:8,14; 54:5,20; 66:13; 67:1; 76:5,6,20; 62:5; 66:2,17; 72:18; 12:1; 17:4; 19:18; 20:11; 55:2; 68:19; 69:1; 73:10; 97:7,18,20; 98:8; 100:22; 74:17; 76:5,18; 77:3; 21:2; 47:15; 56:20,22; 82:21 101:8,9; 102:9; 105:8; 78:9; 79:1; 82:1,2; 60:5; 70:16; 95:20; responsive 24:9,11; 27:11, 106:6 98:22; 103:4; 104:17,24; 104:1; 121:3,5 13 Sandra 3:6 105:16; 106:2; 107:4; recorded 124:5 restated 17:16 Sandy 10:2; 120:7; 121:19; 115:11 recoup 79:16 restaurants 52:18 122:1 puts 76:6 recreational 15:21; 17:12 restrictions 107:9 Sanford 10:1; 20:22 putting 42:16; 59:4; 61:8; red 26:10,19 result 12:22 satisfied 39:16 109:15 redesign 42:7 retail 52:14; 82:7 save 54:1 -------------------------- redevelopment 16:6 retention 14:22 saw 46:22; 62:14; 93:7 Q reduce 10:16; 94:7; 96:9 review 22:19; 23:1,13; saying 8:10; 9:9; 25:6; -------------------------- reduced 38:18; 94:14; 24:6; 25:15,18; 26:2; 28:3; 40:16; 43:17,22; quarum 3:22 124:6 27:8,14; 33:5,13; 34:16; 45:10; 54:22; 68:21; question 18:19; 22:1; reduces 37:21; 96:7,8 40:13; 97:15; 98:9; 72:7; 73:5; 74:6; 75:10; 24:3; 40:14,24; 49:20; reducing 36:4 102:21; 108:20; 110:11; 76:13,16; 87:15; 88:1; 60:12,24; 62:11; 80:2,12; reduction 36:3 115:6 92:21; 97:23; 113:14; 86:20,24; 89:24; 90:9,21; referenced 34:24 reviewed 22:13; 23:5,23; 115:5; 116:17; 121:2; 115:24; 121:15,19 referring 24:21 27:14; 34:14 122:8 questions 12:3; 16:18,23; regarding 16:24; 56:23; reviewing 97:16 says 4:17; 41:10 18:10; 24:10,16; 25:4; 85:3 reviews 25:14 scares 73:23 41:5; 43:8; 59:18; 84:6; regional 11:12; 19:9 revised 6:7; 13:23; 22:12; scenes 103:22 121:17,22; 122:13 reintroduce 12:1 96:13; 97:13 SCEILLINGER 2:11; 3:5; quick 8:24; 46:21; 62:22 related 36:14 revision 13:22 29:1,5,17,23; 30:6,12,17, YORXVILL.TXT Page 10 20,23; 31:10; 34:6; sense 28:13 3,4,22; 15:4,5,24; 16:11; 18,20,21; 41:1; 44:1,11; 38:13; 43:21; 44:3,16; sent 34:3,4; 96:13 17:13; 18:3; 34:12; 35:3; 85:22; 86:15; 87:1; 92:9, 68:10; 71:3,5; 72:1; sentimental 64:21 36:1,19,22; 37:7,8,9,13; 11,15; 101:7; 107:21; 75:6; 78:5,7; 81:3,7,24; separation 33:3 39:7,11; 42:13; 64:23; 110:8 82:8; 83:2,3; 86:1; 87:8, series 33:2; 36:24 84:9,15,20; 85:4,14,18; SPANG 17:1,5,6,16,20; 21; 90:1,5; 91:15,19; seriously 42:15 86:4,9,12,15,22; 87:2,4, 18:7,10,15; 19:16,24; 92:10; 97:4; 99:10; serve 79:12 8,10,16,17; 88:1,2,6,7; 41:8,18,21; 53:11,12; 100:6; 102:13; 104:7,15, service 70:20 89:15,16,18; 90:2; 92:5; 54:3 18; 105:8; 108:2,6; services 71:20 95:18,19; 96:1,5,6,7,8, speaking 32:14; 41:22; 111:1; 115:13,16; 117:17, serving 10:2 15; 97:20; 111:21; 112:9; 46:21; 50:1; 114:13 21; 118:1,6,16; 119:5 session 121:16 114:4,17,21,24; 115:11, special 90:20 school 14:2,4,22; 15:3,5, set 27:7,17; 35:16; 73:17; 22; 116:7,10,11,18,22 specific 93:20 18; 17:13; 28:6,10; 94:21; 117:9,11,12; sites 16:12; 36:23; 85:13; specifically 104:8 29:21; 31:1; 33:22; 34:4, 124:11 87:22; 88:18; 106:5 specific$ 14:15 12; 36:19,21,22,23; 37:1, setbacks 33:3 sitting 11:8 specified 124:10 4,7,13; 42:13,17; 44:1; sets 13:2; 35:7; 78:14 situation 66:18 65:19; 66:2; 69:10; speed 64:4 wetting 92:8 � six 20:9; 50:11; 55:19,24 � spend 51:21 75:12,13,14; 84:9,15,20; several 7:12; 63:5; 93:7 sizable 78:8 spending 100:15; 101:24 85:3,9,13,16,17,21; 86:4, severely 64:12 size 15:9; 39:10,17; spent 58:5; 63:24 8,13,15; 87:2,4,10,13,16, sewer 106:18 46:13; 88:24; 96:5,6 spin 59:6 18,20; 88:2,6,8,14; 89:1, shaded 12:18 sizes 38:18,24; 39:1; spinal 31:21; 106:11 2,3,16,18; 95:17; 96:1,5, shed 84:20 98:20; 105:11 spinning 100:8,9 6,15; 97:19; 106:6; sheet 8:17 slate 92:21 spirit 102:3 111:23; 114:4; 115:1,3,6, shoe 52:18 sleeves 104:2 spite 27:21 10,22; 116:7,9,10,11,18, shop 56:3; 66:16; 67:5 slight 13:6 split 52:3 22 shops 52:14 slope 50:14 spoke 16:16; 20:12; 51:3, school-age 29:18 short 11:3,24; 42:11; 43:4 slopes 46:11 10; 90:14 schools 15:13; 48:9; Shorthand 124:14.5 slowly 12:11 spoken 81:11 88:19; 106:4 shot 67:10 small 46:7; 56:3,13; 57:1; spot 48:17,19; 110:16; SCHOPPB 2:8; 6:21; 7:1,17, shouldn't 92:11; 101:7 63:12; 66:15 115:11 19,20; 21:18,22; 22:1,5, show 12:3; 14:16; 30:13, smaller 4:11; 38:23,24; spring 59:3 24; 23:6,21; 24:17; 21,24; 114:23 86:12; 88:24; 93:7; square 15:10,11; 38:8,10, 25:14; 32:13; 34:13,18; showed 50:7; 96:16 105:10 ( 12; 39:3; 40:18,19,22; 36:9; 38:14; 40:23; showing 30:8,9; 107:18; smell 67:7 41:15; 43:16,22; 52:9; ( 108:24 soak 109: 41:3; 43:23; 44:8; 81:23; � 16 82:5; 92:6; 93:2; 101:5 84:5; 86:19; 90:17,24; shown 16:3; 29:15; 31:6,7; soggy 110:2 SS 124:1.5 91:5,10,13,17,21; 93:9; 38:9; 108:23; 109:2 sold 58:7,19; 66:7 Stadler 45:17,24; 46:1,2, 95:11,24; 96:8; 99:14; shows 41:16 somebody 8:19; 55:13; 5,18,20; 47:18; 49:6,9, 108:11,17,20; 113:1,11; shy 85:23; 86:1 67:24; 68:5; 120:7 10,16; 50:6; 51:2; 81:11 115:22; 120:24 sick 112:15 somebody's 31:3 Stadler$ 53:15,22 Schoppe's 7:11; 94:5; side 11:7; 13:3,4; 16:10, someone 55:12; 90:10; staff 14:6; 22:22; 23:5; 101:22 11; 31:20; 40:6; 51:15; 102:1; 118:13 24:5,10; 26:2,14; 44:15; Scouts 63:21; 64:1 55:10; 59:9; 75:23; someplace 118:15 56:20; 93:20; 96:22; seat 11:8 76:21; 84:19; 90:24; something 7:23; 18:16; 98:16; 100:18; 101:11,21; second 7:1; 8:6; 9:4; 105:2,3; 107:15; 120:18 26:12,18; 32:5,6; 37:14; 102:17,20; 103:22; 33:20; 45:4,5; 54:9; sides 106:7 46:18,20; 47:14; 51:7,8; 112:12; 114:15; 117:13; 62:10; 68:9,10; 69:6; sign 41:24 53:2; 60:3; 64:17; 65:6; 119:12,13; 121:18 71:3; 72:1; 73:1; 80:15, sign-in 8:22 66:3; 69:13; 76:9; 78:24; stage 42:3; 43:11,13,20; 16; 114:1; 120:8,11 sign-up 8:17 79:16; 80:3,23; 89:1; 99:1 secondary 76:1,2 signed 8:18,21; 57:15 90:10; 93:3,12; 96:17; stakes 59:20 seconded 6:7; 9:5; 54:17; significantly 47:1,9 101:14; 105:18; 112:11 stand 9:17; 17:3; 24:24; 68:16; 71:4,6; 72:4; signify 8:10; 9:9; 45:10; somewhat 93:13; 120:1 62:15; 102:24 122:23 54:22; 68:21; 72:7; 73:5 somewhere 57:14; 94:9 standard 35:17; 36:6; Secondly 58:5 silos 58:7 Somonauk 45:17; 48:3,8,14; 120:4 secretary 4:13 similar 32:15; 33:14; 73:13; 75:12,18; 76:8; standards 32:24; 34:20; section 33:11; 41:9; 77:4; 97:24 77:24 35:7,8,16 104:21 simple 26:13,18,21; 47:14; sow 67:12,17 standpoint 79:8,15; 80:1 sections 31:17; 40:16; 78:7; 100:5 sorry 3:24; 6:23; 16:21; start 8:19; 84:8,10; 104:19 simplify 26:20 30:17; 52:7; 65:22; sector 11:6 simply 36:1; 51:10; 80:2, 86:14; 92:22; 98:23; 95:21; 117:10 � 120:24 secure 88:18 4; 85:23; 122:4 ( sort 48:4; 49:24; 64:23; started 10:17 see 5:7; 7:18; 12:23; since 11:3; 46:22; 58:12; 78:23; 93:5 starting 94:18 18:18; 20:3; 22:16; 63:10 sorts 93:22 state 17:3; 41:12; 50:20; 25:11; 28:14; 38:16; single 18:1; 36:11; 43:22; sound 56:8 71:14; 77:15; 89:9; 124:1 47:7; 51:24; 53:17,19; 48:12; 52:3,12; 104:9,13, sounded 90:19 stated 43:7 56:5,9; 58:9,18,20; 67:5; 16; 105:13,21,22; 106:1; sounds 7:20; 50:3 statement 4:19,22,24; 5:2; 69:17; 84:15; 93:8; 95:3; 107:16 south 2:15.5; 12:14; 13:4, 77:2; 94:23; 99:13 97:12,17,23; 106:21; single-family 15:2,4,6,8, 6; 15:4,6,17; 16:9,10; statements 62:22 116:4 14; 31:19; 35:12,15,19; 40:6,8; 49:15,17; 50:8; ( states 6:16 seeing 112:15 36:4; 38:16; 41:10; 53:13; 55:10; 60:16; seem 49:24 96:14; 107:10,12,23; station 9:7 84:21; 90:22,24; 107:15, � statue 89:7 seems 20:2; 25:17; 41:18; 108:9,12 16; 117:17 statute 89:9 50:23; 58:14; 63:2; sir 20:11; 47:23; 58:24; southeast 39:7; 57:2; 91:5 Stay 8:21; 38:4; 51:20 68:12; 75:16; 93:24; 60:9; 61:24; 65:23; 66:3, southern 32:3; 41:8 steep 78:15 110:15 17; 69:22; 74:1 space 14:21; 15:1,21; STEIN 9:24; 10:1,2; 20:19, seen 24:22; 41:15; 111:3 sit 65:21; 72:23; 101:3; 16:16; 17:11; 18:5; 19:5; 22,23; 24:8; 26:5,20; sell 51:8; 63:12 117:1 21:5; 35:9,11,16; 36:8; 43:2,5; 44:14; 99:3; selling 66:8 site 12:12,20,23,24; 14:2, 38:22; 39:2,15; 40:7,15, 103:5; 111:14; 112:2,6, YORXVILL.TXT Page 11 17; 113:11,19 34:18; 36:19; 38:2,8; torn 51:22; 78:24; 92:18 stenographically 124:5 105:23; 106:9; 109:14; 39:6,15,18; 50:19; 56:16, � total 14:20; 16:1; 17:10, � 112:17; 115:2; 118:12 step 12:6; 14:13; 33:12; 18; 60:11; 108:14; 113:1; 14; 95:13 understanding 11:15; 80:9 121:20 tough 82:1,2 70:20; 88:23; 69:12; still 14:15,19; 15:11; talks 35:18 toward 84:17 114:11 24:12; 39:22; 47:7; 63:1; tanks 71:17 towards 31:1; 50:11 understands 81:12 66:16; 79:18,24; 91:16; task 98:11 town 38:16; 53:13; 57:14; understood 17:2 93:1,8; 94:19; 99:16; teacher 121:12 63:19; 105:10 nd 102:9; 104:5; 110:15 technically 76:15 townhome 58:10; 59:17 undulation 12:13; 91:16 on 13:6 stood 44:6; 121:10 TED 2:6; 3:14; 7:23; 13:23 townhomes 15:20; 63:16 unfortunately 23:19; 30:1; Store 122:2 tend 76:4; 93:11 townhouses 15:23 102:19,22 stores 52:15 tenth 96:18 trade 38:24 unhappy 118:23 storm 14:22; 17:11,17; terms 13:7; 14:13,14; trading 39:11 unified 112:12 18:19; 19:15; 36:10; 16:8; 79:21,22; 84:11; traditional 82:7 unit 28:13,14; 96:3; 108:16; 109:5,6 89:24; 97:24; 106:20; Traditionally 41:21 111:19 street 2:15.5; 30:4,7; 109:4 traffic 37:18,19,21,24; United 45:21 45:17; 48:4,8,10,14; territory 41:23 38:4; 47:8; 48:11,20,22; units 5:8,9,11; 16:1; 53:13,14,15; 57:5; 58:12; testifying 122:5 52:24; 53:3; 57:6; 70:3, 17:22; 32:3; 39:1; 93:17; 65:20; 73:13; 75:23; text 33:9 7; 75:10; 81:13 96:14 76:1,9; 77:24; 78:3,17; Thanks 95:23 trail 19:9; 31:1; 39:18, leas 78:1; 82:15 81:5,6; 118:22 theirs 121:17 20,23; 40:1,3,8; 119:1 I streets 37:18,21 unload 39:24 themselves 44:11; 79:21 � transcript 124:8 � unreasonable 110:22; 122:8 stretch 77:14 Thereby 37:21 transcription 124:7 unsafe 78:12 stretching 94:2 therefore 51:5; 106:14 transition 104:12,13; untenable 80:5 strong 44:6; 101:6 thereupon 9:20 105:9,11,13; 108:1 until 41:24; 61:14; 62:2; strongly 32:2 thing 8:17; 13:24; 19:12; transitional 34:19; 38:18; 64:7; 67:22; 68:7; 69:3; structure 6:6; 47:5; 24:4; 28:6; 33:15; 43:2; 40:17; 91:13,14; 93:1; 70:22; 71:9; 115:18 50:24; 52:3; 82:18 51:18; 66:13; 76:20; 105:16 up 8:18,23; 12:7; 13:2; Structures 56:7; 78:24 80:6,13; 88:24; 98:9; transitionalize 105:19 15:12; 17:17; 23:8; student 48:11 99:18; 100:1; 103:5; trapped 57:7 24:24; 31:1; 35:7; 36:16, students 116:21 104:3,24; 105:8; 106:6; trepidation 48:24 18; 37:8; 44:11; 46:14; studio 52:16 117:8; 121:10 trial 120:22 52:3,8; 58:8; 59:14; study 69:10 things 6:15; 25:5; 27:12; tried 24:13; 51:17; 93:6; 62:5,12; 64:4; 65:1,5,7, stuff 75:11,13; 77:20; 28:17; 33:2,4; 36:24; 102:3 9,11,20; 66:4; 67:15; 109:16,20; 110:13; 119:14 37:1,4,10; 40:10; 42:19; trip 75:15 68:13; 70:11; 73:21; subdivision 55:20; 57:21; 43:9; 79:24; 82:11; trouble 56:15; 84:12 74:16; 86:4; 87:12; 92:3; 58:10,16; 108:16 93:23; 97:18; 99:16,20; true 96:2; 124:8 96:6; 100:12; 104:2,10, subject 12:12; 81:15 102:17; 103:7; 113:15; try 10:15; 11:14; 12:11; 14; 106:6,7,15; 107:4,8, submitted 5:16; 10:7,8; 115:23; 119:6,19; 120:18 26:7; 37:16; 53:4,6; 20,24; 108:3,6; 109:16; 22:6,18; 23:12,15,23; thinking 55:22; 60:21; 102:16; 111:1 118:11,20; 121:4 24:5; 32:14,17; 97:13 ( 76:6; 109:17 trying 22:20; 23:11; upwind 67:4 submitting 10:9; 26:2 third 5:7; 6:21,24; 24:7; 25:23; 26:21; 34:8; UR 33:16 substantial 94:13 46:12; 49:13,14,22; 49:10; 51:23; 63:7,8; usable 110:1 substantially 46:14; 88:10 50:18; 55:4; 102:7 78:19; 87:14; 92:20; using 30:15; 74:16; 75:18; substantive 4:12 thoroughfare 53:7 100:12; 102:22; 113:19 118:14 subtract 17:24; 114:3 though 11:5; 94:18; 97:16; turn 6:17; 48:14,19; 58:3; -------------------------- suburb 122:7 118:5; 120:24 117:23 V successful 43:18 thousands 51:21 turned 53:1; 120:17 successfully 68:2 three 4:11; 5:18; 46:22; turns 65:19 value 64:21,23; 80:24; Sue 55:14 51:11,16; 61:11; 63:24; two 12:3; 15:13,16,20,22; 100:21 sufficient 90:6 67:6; 79:20; 102:5; 122:6 16:12; 29:2; 37:10,12; values 48:6 suggest 5:12; 76:20 three-foot 59:8 40:3; 55:21; 59:8; 61:11; variances 27:22; 50:24 suggesting 76:20 throughout 37:22 63:24; 78:3,6,14,22; various 5:16; 10:8 suggestion 28:2; 77:4 tied 89:10 96:18,19; 98:9; 99:22; varying 22:22 suggestions 32:1; 93:9 tight 53:3 101:24; 104:10; 105:17; vehicles 39:24 summarize 32:12 timely 27:13; 102:20 106:3,9; 107:1 vehicular 28:18,19; 42:17, summary 21:22,24; 33:10; timetable 111:4 two-and-a-half 58:11; 18; 115:15,19 38:7; 40:12 timing 26:2,6; 99:20 59:24 verbatim 5:6 superintendent 88:17; tired 112:15 two-person 82:15 versa 26:19 89:13; 114:16; 116:9 today 56:20; 97:5 two-thirds 88:1 version 29:7 support 53:22; 93:11 together 21:12; 33:1; type 15:19; 35:20; 50:3; versus 94:23 supposed 29:12; 121:22 76:1; 78:23; 94:21; 52:14; 53:19; 77:4; via 124:6 surrounded 37:17 100:22; 101:24 86:14; 93:6; 94:11,17 viable 79:11; 114:24 surrounding 17:14; 38:6 TOM 2:2; 3:11; 102:14; types 15:17; 52:10,18; vice 26:19 surveyor 60:7 121:11 121:4 view 21:5,8; 57:1,4,6; Susan 55:6,12 tonight 5:17; 10:10; typewriting 124:6 58:1,4,13; 59:1,2; 65:19, sworn 9:20 11:18,23; 12:2; 21:1; typically 33:7; 95:11 22; 67:13; 70:9 system 17:12; 31:8; 40:1, 22:3,14,16,18; 23:4,8; -------------------------- Village 9:23; 16:24; 21:9; 3; 108:16; 119:2 24:22; 26:13; 66:12; U 57:1,4,6; 58:1,4,13; -------------------------- 68:3,13; 70:15; 97:4; 59:1,2,6; 65:19,22; T 99:21; 119:24; 121:20 ultimate 114:2 -------------------------- Tonight's 25:5 ultimately 7:13; Y 21:8 � 83:24; 122:3 72:22; table 11:7; 15:24; 96:16; Tony 71:11; 101:13; under 6:20,24; 7:6; 72:21; Villages 120:19 100:19 114:18,19 88:21; 124:7 vote 4:5 tabulation 35:23 took 78:2; 107:3 understand 10:4; 11:14; voted 4:6,7,8 tacky 65:6 top 7:7; 13:7; 65:15; 17:7; 66:5; 70:10; 71:14; tag 26:24 104:21; 110:17 75:9; 76:16; 80:20; 81:1; talked 7:12; 16:12; 31:16; topographical 84:11 87:6; 95:2; 104:9; YORXVILL.TXT Page 12 -------------------------- 14,17; 19:9,14,23; 21:1, I zoned 61:5; 63:11; 78:21 I W 9; 22:19; 24:24; 31:11, zones 15:16 -------------------------- I 14; 32:21,22,24; 33:1,8; zoning 52:1,3; 57:13; waiting 64:8; 68:13 39:24; 41:24; 43:20; I 60:14; 77:3; 78:23; walk 29:21; 31:2; 59:10; 44:21; 50:16; 54:1,6; I 79:12,17; 80:11; 81:15; 69:17,19 56:21; 57:24; 59:8; 62:9; 105:17; 120:21; 121:8 I walk-out 46:24; 50:1 I 64:6,15; 66:20; 68:8,10; zonings 104:11 I I walked 47:1 I 69:2,5; 70:13; 78:22; I -------------------------- walkway 29:2; 30:24 80:10,15; 81:15,22; Walsh 20:14 82:22; 84:20,24; 93:19; -------------------------- wanted 4:18; 19:10; 20:24; I 95:18; 96:22; 101:4; _ 33:16; 34:23; 43:6; I 102:11; 108:22,23; 109:5, 124:14 51:19; 56:17; 59:24; 6,7,22,23,24; 110:1,2; I I I 60:13; 66:3; 67:21; 111:11; 112:8,21; 114:17; 74:16; 85:5; 88:17; 116:11,16,17; 117:22,24; 106:12,13; 107:15 I 118:7; 119:14; 122:12,20 I I wanting 36:21 willing 89:21 wants 68:6; 75:5; 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2:16, I I 9,23 I 17.5; 12:16; 18:18; white 74:23 I 45:21,22; 55:7,9; 57:20; whole 11:4; 25:21; 36:23; I 60:15; 77:16; 105:18 85:2; 88:5; 104:19; 108:7 Yorkville's 12:16 I I I widen 46:9; 79:8 young 121:3 widened 82:2 I yourself 5:20; 86:13 I I widening 47:10 -------------------------- will 3:2; 4:12; 5:17; Z 6:18; 10:1,2,9; 11:2; I -------------------------- I I 12:2,6,9,11,19,21; 16:9, I zone 107:11 CITY Of YORKVILLE MAR 12 200`3 I �/ RECEIVE[ March 9, 2003 United City of Yorkville Zoning Department RE: Concerning property recently purchased house including small land located at Route 71 and Village View Dr. at South East corner. Owners want to re-zone and make into commercial property for antique business. 1. Village View Dr. is the only street in and out of our residential area, if other traffic is parked on Village View Dr. and an emergency would occur, residentswwould be trapped. 2. Our family and other residents in area purchased homes with the assumption that it was going to be a residential area. At this time we are asking the Zoning Board to consider keeping this area residential and place commercial property some where else in town. Thank you Residents of Yorkville Arr� e fql30t'xS S' V3 49 2—,)33 Lu c c t, +h - S •j=.-Z JaS } �17 � S� 3 iz 30 $ ULItII A TW l�AId 0� � . p206, lGI-W- t1//e� Pp. �- J{j,!4j l{ _� � �-at', I '.\I•CL�' C.!` ` ��l L � �•\��}l J 1•llL � L/�r-`f F `j �_.l' rn C�n� ; �-l�c�j�� a 03 1/1, t/,ew Dr, y