Plan Commission Minutes 2003 04-09-03 e
4
Page 1 of 5 APPROVED BY THE
COMMITTEE/BOARD
UNITED CITY OF YORKVILLE ON: L� 3
PLAN COMMISSION MEETING �N
WEDNESDAY, APRIL 9, 2003
Chairman Tom Lindblom called the meeting to order at 7 p.m.
ROLL CALL
Members present: Clarence Holdiman, Jeff Baker, Anne Lucietto, Bill Davis, Sandra
Adams, Brian Schillinger, Jack Jones, Tom Mizel, Ted King, Michael Crouch, Andrew
Kubala and Tom Lindblom.
Members absent: Kerry Green.
A quorum was established.
VISITORS
Those who signed the sign-in sheet or spoke at the meeting were: Roy and Susan Greene,
Yorkville; Mitch LaFave, Ocean Atlantic, Standford Stein; Chris Lannert, Ronald
Heslop, Yorkville; JoAnn Cryder, Yorkville; Lynn Dubajic, Yorkville Economic
Development Corporation; John Whitehouse, EEI, Dan Waitt, Beacon News; Tony Scott,
Kendall County Press; Laura Brown; City Attorney Dan Kramer; City Planner Mike
Schoppe; City Administrator Tony Graff, Mayor Art Prochaska; and Alderman Richard
Sticka.
MINUTES
Minutes from the March 12 meeting were approved.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Continued from March 12, 2003
PC 2003-02 9818 Route 71: Roy and Susan Greene, petitioners, have filed an
application with the United City of Yorkville requesting rezoning.
See attached transcript.
NEW BUSINESS
PC 2003-02: Roy and Susan Greene petitioners request to rezone.
To refresh commissioner's memories from the previous meeting, Chairman Tom
Lindblom said some of the concerns raised centered on parking on Village View Drive
and the fact that the area is a residential area.
He said he went to the location and found that Village View Drive is a full-width street
and is wide enough for people to park on both sides of the street and still allow for traffic
to flow normally.
Page 2 of 5
Commissioner Jeff Baker commented that they only access point granted to the property
is on Route 71, not on Village View. Lindblom said the reason that the single entrance
was allowed is because there is a future stub of a road into Fox Highlands that eventually
will be a second entrance.
City Attorney Dan Kramer said there seems to be a better way to go about granting the
request rather than rezoning from R-1 One Family Residence District to B-1 Limited
Business District. He suggested that the petitioners seek an R-1 Special Use Permit for an
antique shop. So that way, if there were a use change in the future, it would have to go
back through to the city council.
Kramer said if the Plan Commission feels the proposed use is satisfactory, then a special
use permit rather than zoning change might be the best way to go.
Resident Ronald Heslop said he bought his property nearby because it was in a residential
area and he wants the area to stay residential. Commissioner Tom Mizel asked Heslop if
a special use permit for an antique shop on the property would be acceptable to him. He
said it would be acceptable. The Greene's also said the special use permit would be
acceptable.
Commissioner Ted King asked if there was any way to restrict parking on the street to
help residents. Commissioner Brian Schillinger said there should be amply parking on the
property itself. Because it won't be used for auctions, he said there probably wouldn't be
100 cars there at a time. Also, he said if a bus were to bring customers, it could park on
the property itself.
Commissioner Michael Crouch said the issue of parking is a city staff issue. The issue on
hand is whether the antique shop is acceptable as a permitted use.
Mrs. Greene said she wanted to be clear on what would be allowed under a special use
permit. She wanted to be able to sell produce from the business on a limited basis.
Kramer said that incidental sales of seasonal products shouldn't affect the special use
permit.
Commissioner Anne Lucietto made a motion that the Plan Commission deems the land
use of R1 to be appropriate for this land and requests that a text change to R1 Special Use
be considered by the City Council based on use of existing buildings for an antique shop.
Crouch seconded the motion. The motion was unanimously approved by a roll call vote
of 12-0. Clarence Holdiman, Jeff Baker, Anne Lucietto, Bill Davis, Sandra Adams, Brian
Schillinger, Jack Jones, Tom Mizel, Ted King, Michael Crouch, Andrew Kubala and
Tom Lindblom voted yes.
OLD BUSINESS
PC 2002-06 Westbury Village: Ocean Atlantic petitioners.
Representing Ocean Atlantic, Sandford Stein told the Plan Commission that Ocean
Atlantic has met every request from the city. There is now a combined school/park site of
Page 3 of 5
20 acres in the proposed subdivision development. There is a bridge connecting the two
segments of the project. There is a pod density of 8 units per acre. There are 12,000
square foot lots throughout the project, unless the lots abut open space, which is allowed
under the city's ordinance and comprehensive plan.
Stein said City Planner Mike Schoppe and Ocean Atlantic's engineer Chris Lannert
couldn't agree on how to calculate densities. Ocean Atlantic decided to agree with
Schoppe's interpretation.
With that said, he said they're ready to move to the next phase.
Schoppe said they've clarified the way to calculate things. If they meet those
calculations, they proposed development would be in compliance with the comprehensive
plan and the developers. He added that the developers have done everything else the city
has requested.
Kramer suggested the Plan Commission make a motion to supplement the public hearing
record from the last meeting to include the April 3, 2003 planning memo from Schoppe
Design Associates as part of the record and the March 28 Lannert Group memo.
Commissioner Andrew Kubala said he has objections to the Lannert memo, which has
some inaccuracies. Stein said it does not need to be included. Kubala also said he is
confused by the configuration of some of the lot sizes shown in the plan.
Stein said the plan shown is a concept plan and is a rough configuration. The plat will
definitely delineate the lot sizes in each of the pods. At that point, he said, the Plan
Commission will see what it is asking for. For right now,the words on the document are
guiding the plan.
Compared to the document the Plan Commission will see at the end of the process, this
plan is a stick figure, Stein said. This plan is a concept and it will build on itself.
Bake said he's a little concerned about the shape of one of the cul-de-sacs in Pod 6. He
said the city has never allowed one that makes a left turn. He said he still doesn't like
homes abutting Route 47,but he dislikes that cul-de-sac even more. Baker added he
would be happier to see the street go through to Pod 5.
Schillinger asked if it would be acceptable to ask the petitioners to work it out in the next
phase or if it needs to be worked out now.
City Administrator Tony Graff said the city would actually like to have the plan look
more like a bubble, but have verbage indicating what the neighborhood standards would
be and include design standards.
Page 4 of 5
Generally speaking, he said, at the concept level, the developers could do more of a
bubble look. Also, he said the city is looking at drafting cul-de-sac design standards
Typically there are 16-18 homes on a 900-foot cul-de-sac.
He said the city is comfortable that it can draft a good PUD agreement for the
development.
Kramer suggested that if the Plan Commissioners have any specific recommendations,
they could attach those conditions or recommendations to the vote.
Graff said when the preliminary comes back to the commission, there will be a checklist
to see if the developers have met all of the PUD requirements. The commissioners also
will see a preliminary plat and engineering report and a multitude of reviews.
Crouch asked how closely does what have to show in the preliminary plat have to be in
the concept plan? Graff said that the verbage has to be exact. The verbage in the
preliminary plat cannot vary from what is in the concept plan.
Crouch then asked where the reduction of 8.5 acres in the single-family attached
development was going to appear. He said it would be helpful to know where it would be
removed.
Stein said they don't know yet where it will go. He said the developers need to
reconfigure that yet. He said to get into that level of detail at this point is not ideal.
Lannert said the acreage would likely come out of all of the pods. Schoppe said he and
Lannert talked about some of the density coming out of Pod 7 because it is denser than
any of the others. He added that it is his recommendation that this plan be revised before
the City Council approves it.
Mizel said that because the plan is in the concept stage, isn't it the commission's job to
make its suggestions.
Baker made a motion to include Mike Schoppe's memo dated April 3 into the minutes
from the March 12 public hearing. Lucietto seconded the motion. The motion was
unanimously approved by voice vote.
Kubala made a motion to accept the plat as presented provided that the information
provided is Schoppe's April 3 memo is implemented. Schillinger seconded the motion.
The motion failed by a 5 to 7 vote. Davis, Schillinger, Jones, Lindblom and Holdiman
voted yes. Baker, Lucietto, Adams, Mizel, King, Crouch and Kubala voted no.
The recommendation now moves on to the city council.
Page 5 of 5
ADDITIONAL BUSINESS
Presentation by Dan Kramer regarding new rules for public hearings
Kramer outlined the new rules for public hearings in Illinois. He said the big change in
Illinois came out of the Klaeren case. It centered on the Meyers store in Lisle.
Basically, what the law says is there needs to be a record. For public hearings on special
uses, there has to be a record. If there is a lawsuit or appeal, it's under the administrative
review act and the only evidence a judge looks at is the evidence a court report takes. If
they city doesn't make a record at the municipality, then the judge has no record of the
hearing.
At court, the city would not be allowed to supplement the record. That is why the city
supplements the record when possible at their meetings.
Also, Kramer said that while the City of Yorkville has always made a good practice of
allowing people to speak at public hearings, the new law now states that public hearings
must allow for relevant cross-examination and opportunity to present evidence by the
petitioner and objectors.
Kramer went on to explain a few of the other changes and what the practical implications
of the changes are.
The meeting adjourned at 8:17 p.m.
PLEASE SIGN IN
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ORIGINAL.
COMMISSION MEETING
UNITED CITY OF YORKVILLE , ILLINOIS
REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS had at the meeting
of the above-entitled matter taken before
CHRISTINE M . VITOSH, C . S . R . , R . P . R . , on April 9 ,
2003 , at the hour of 7 : 00 p . m. , at 800 Game Farm
Road, in the city of Yorkville , Illinois .
0)_
REPO • COURT
reporting service
800 West Fifth Avenue • Suite 203C • Naperville, IL 60563 • 630-983-0030 • Fax 630-983-6013
www.depocourt.com
Plan Commission Multi-PageTM United City of Yorkville, Illinois
April 9, 2003
Page 2 Page 4
1 P R E S E N T:
1 MR. KING: Here.
2 MR. TOM LINDBLOM, Chairman;
2 MS. GIPE: Michael Crouch.
3 MR. CLARENCE HOLDIMAN;
3 MR. CROUCH: Here.
4 MR. JEFF BAKER:
4 MS. GIPE: Andrew Kubala.
5 MS. ANNE LUCIETTO;
5 MR. KUBALA: Here.
6 MR. BILL DAVIS;
6 MS. GIPE: Tom Lindblom.
7 MS. SANDRA ADAMS:
7 MR. LINDBLOM: Here.
8 MR. BRIM SCHILLINGER;
8 We do have a quorum.
9 MR. JACK JONES;
9 The first item is to approve
10 MR. TOM MIZEL; 10 the previous meeting minutes. You should have
11 MR. TED KING;
11 all 124 pages before you. Is there a motion to
12 MR. MICHAEL CROUCH;
13 MR. ANDREW KUBALA; 12 approve?
13 MR. BAKER: So moved,Baker.
14 MS. DINI GIPS.
14 MR. KUBALA: Second.
15 A P P E A R A N C E S-
16 IAN OFFICES OF DANIEL J. IUtAMER 15 MR. LINDBLOM: Seconded. Any
1107A Bridge Street 16 additions or corrections?
17 Yorkville, Illinois 60560
BY: MR. DANIEL J. KRAMER, 17 MR. BAKER: None.
18 appeared on behalf of the United
19 City of Yorkville, Illinois. 18 MR. LINDBLOM: Hearing none,those
20 _ _ _ _ _ 19 in favor signify by saying aye.
21 20(A Chorus of Ayes)
22 21 MR. LINDBLOM: Opposed?
23 22(No response)
24 23 MR. LINDBLOM: The minutes are
24 approved.
Page 3 Page 5
1 (Pledge of 1 With the Commission's
2 Allegiance) 2 permission, I'd like to ask for a motion to
3 MR. LINDBLOM: Ladies and gentlemen, 3 change the agenda. I'd like to put Dan's
4 I would like to call the meeting to order. Could 4 two-minute presentation at the end,but more so
5 we have a roll call, please? 5 I'd like to have permission to change the order
6 MS. GIPE: Kerry Green. 6 of the old business and the new business so we
7 (No response) 7 could get the public hearing on the application
8 MS. GIPS: Clarence Holdiman. 8 for rezoning and then actually go into that
9 MR. HOLDIMAN: Here. 9 business,get that over with,and then come back
10 MS. GIPS: Jeff Baker. 10 to that.
11 MR. BAKER: Here. I I Is there any objection to that
12 MS. GIPE: Anne Lnaietto. 12 motion?
13 MS. LDCIETTO: Here. 13(No response)
14 MS. GIPS: Bill Davis. 14 MR. HOLDIMAN: I so move.
15 MR. DAVIS: Here. 15 MR. LINDBLOM: Okay. Moved. Is
16 MS. GIPS: Sandra Adams. 16 there a second?
17 MS. ADAMS: Here. 17 MR. BAKER: Second.
18 MS. GIPE: Brian Schillinqer. 18 MR. LINDBLOM: Move to second. Any
19 (No response) 19 further discussion?
20 MS. GIPE: Jack Jones. 20(No response)
21 (No response) 21 MR. LINDBLOM: Hearing none,all
22 MS. GIPE: Tom Mizel. 22 those in favor signify by saying aye.
23 MR. MIZEL: Here. 23(A Chorus of Ayes)
24 MS. GIPE: Ted King. 24 MR. LINDBLOM: Opposed?
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April 9, 2003
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1 (No response) 1 hearings are in adjournment.
2 MR. LINDBLOM: Motion passes. 2 With that said,Mr. Greene,do
3 And at this time do we have a 3 you have anything you wish to add from last month
4 motion to go to public hearing? 4 or to refresh it?
5 MR. KUBALA: I make a motion to go 5 MR. GREENE: No, sir,I have nothing
6 to public hearing for PC2003-02. 6 more to add to it.
7 MR. LINDBLOM: And is there a 7 MR. LINDBLOM: Okay. Is there
8 second? 8 anybody else then--In the public hearing now,
9 MR. HOLDIMAN: Second. 9 is there anybody else that wishes to address the
10 MR. LINDBLOM: Seconded,Holdiman. 10 Commission?
11 Any discussion on the motion? 11 MR. HESLOP: I would like to talk.
12(No response) 12 MR. LINDBLOM: One second,please.
13 MR. LINDBLOM: Hearing none, those 13 I will remind everybody that this is being court
14 in favor signify by saying aye. 14 reported right now which then does two things.
15(A Chorus of Ayes) 15 Number one,I need to you to state your name
16 MR. LINDBLOM: Opposed? 16 clearly for the record and,number two,the
17(No response) 17 process here is that we can only have one person
18 MR. LINDBLOM: Motion passes. 18 talking at a time, so even when we get into
19 MR. KRAMER: We will reflect this is 19 discussion of this, if I stop things,it's
20 a unanimous vote. 20 because I've gotten the high sign from our
21 MR. LINDBLOM: Just for the record, 21 friendly reporter who says wait a minute,I can't
22 this is a continuation of the public hearing from 22 do this,there is two people talking at the same
23 March 12th,2003,and at this time could I have 23 time.
24 anyone that wishes to address the Commission 24 With that said, sir,can we
Page 7 Page 9
1 regarding the petition for Roy and Susan Greene. 1 have your name and your comments to the
2 They are asking to rezone from 2 Commission?
3 United City of Yorkville R-1 single-family 3 MR. HESLOP: Yeah. My name is
4 residence to United City of Yorkville business 4 Ronald Heslop, I am from 2001 Muirfield. I am in
5 district. 5 the particular area where these people want to
6 Those of you that wish to 6 open up a business.
7 address the Commission,please stand and take the 7 At the last meeting in March as
8 oath for me. 8 we were walking out the door there were threats
9(Witnesses sworn) 9 being made and leverage being made. That's why
10 MR. LINDBLOM: In this process the 10 the two other gentlemen that were here are not
11 people from the audience have a right to ask any 11 here.
12 questions of the petitioner and,typically, for 12 One gentlemen is calling a
13 those of you that may not have been here last 13 lawyer,he's going to put it up for sale because
14 month or previous months,we are now into the 14 all of a sudden, God forbid,he's got part of his
15 public hearing portion of the meeting. 15 land on these people's land.
16 At some point we will close the 16 The daughter,I mean,God
17 public hearing,but that does not necessarily end 17 forbid, she's been making--is so said hot
18 the discussion on this issue because at that time 18 temper.
19 then the Commission actually discusses the issue 19 I am standing my ground,that's
20 itself. 20 why I am here tonight. I have been the type of
21 Typically in the past we-- 21 person nobody threatens me.
22 even though we have adjourned the public hearing, 22 MR. LINDBLOM: Mr. Heslop,excuse
23 we have also listened to people if they have 23 me, I'd like to try to keep personalities out of
24 questions or comments,even though the public 24 this.
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1 MR. HESLOP: Okay. 1 don't think that's right for me.
2 MR. LINDBLOM: I'd like you to --If 2 I don't think these people--
3 you so choose, I'd like you to state the reason 3 Some of these people are afraid to come here
4 that you are objecting to this so that-- 4 tonight. This gentleman is upset,he is ready to
5 MR. HESLOP: I am objecting to it 5 take on the world tonight.
6 for one thing,as I had so mentioned at the March 6 All I want to do is--These
7 meeting,if there happens to be a problem in the 7 people have no --they have no situation on
8 area in the back,these people would be trapped. 8 living on this property,just to open it up for a
9 The daughter did mention she 9 business. We don't want this. We want a
10 got up,oh,I don't feel that way. Well,no,1 10 residential area. This is what makes a town a
11 found out where her house was. She is at the end 11 town. If I wanted to live next door to
12 house of the cul-de-sac. All she has got to do 12 commercial,I would have bought next door to
13 is walk out the back door,like I explained to 13 commercial.
14 you. She can walk across their land and get out. 14 I have nothing else to say.
15 What about the rest of the 15 MR. LINDBLOM: Okay. Thank you,
16 people? She is not concerned about the rest of 16 sir. Is there anybody else from the public that
17 the people that live in that area. Nobody seems 17 has any comments they wish to make.
18 to care about an extra roadway getting in and out 18 Mr. Greene,do you have
19 of there. 19 anything?
20 This is something I had brought 20 MR. GREENE: Roy Greene. We have
21 up at that last meeting in March,my biggest 21 threatened nobody,you know,and the guy we
22 concern. 22 talked to that owns the property that's on our
23 I mean,I feel this way,a lot 23 property,we told him we are not going to do
24 of us that signed this petition,when we moved in 24 anything,you know. He knows it. We talked to
Page 11 Page 13
1 this area it was supposed to have been planned as 1 him out here that night at the meeting. We have
2 an all residential area. We'd like to keep it 2 not threatened anybody.
3 this way. 3 We talked to most of them and
4 There are a lot of business 4 after we told them what we wanted to do,they had
5 areas on 47 and 34 that people can open up 5 no more to say about it,and there is nobody here
6 businesses. We have no objection to that. 6 tonight except him,you know, so that's all I've
7 We'd like to keep that area. 7 got to say.
8 This is why I got a petition made up. But when 8 But we are planning on living
9 this started right after the meeting,I figured 9 in that area sooner or later. Thank you.
10 the best thing--I don't know what to do. 10 MR. LINDBLOM: Thank you. Any
11 That's why I am here all by 11 further comments?
12 myself and I feel--I bring it to the board. I 12(No response)
13 don't feel this is right. I want to stand my 13 MR. LINDBLOM: Hearing none, is
14 ground--my grounds. 14 there a motion then to close the public hearing?
15 1 am a U.S. citizen. I fought 15 MR. BAKER: So moved,Baker.
16 in the war like a lot of you maybe have,and 16 MR. KUBALA: Second,Kubala.
17 nobody is going to run me out,and I--they are 17 MR. DAVIS: Second.
18 very nice people from what I could talk to a 18 MR. LINDBLOM: It's been moved to
19 little bit,but there is--I think they better 19 close the hearing. Is there any discussion on
20 call their daughter to the side and their son and 20 the motion?
21 tell them hey, stay your noses out of my 21 (No response)
22 business. 22 MR. LINDBLOM: Hearing none,those
23 But the thing of it is I'm 23 in favor signify by saying aye.
24 losing people here tonight because of it and I 24(A Chorus of Ayes)
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1 MR. LINDBLOM: Opposed? 1 got the comprehensive plan,we've got business at
2(No response) 2 the intersections out there across the street.
3 MR. LINDBLOM: The public hearing is 3 I would suspect that part of
4 now closed. 4 the reason for the antique shop is this is an old
5 And at this time,per our 5 farmstead,we've got the old buildings there,
6 previous motion,we would like to take up 6 which have no utilitarian value for farm purposes
7 discussion on PC2003-02. These numbers ran 7 at this point.
8 together here. This is the property at 9818 8 Charles Deutschman,the
9 Route 71,Roy and Susan Greene, Petitioners. 9 individual who sold all the land,was a life-long
10 Let me just add a little-- 10 fanner there,reserved the right to continue
11 refresh your memories a little bit. If you would 11 fanning operations in those buildings if he so
12 remember from last month,we had a petition that 12 desired until his buildings were gone.
13 Mr. Heslop referred to. It was submitted. 13 Obviously it transferred to the
14 As I read the petition,the 14 owner,but there is nothing preventing a fanning
15 concerns on it are,number one,that they are 15 operation there now.
16 concerned about traffic being parked on --I will 16 It seems to me that the better
17 get my map out-- on Village View Drive and, 17 way maybe to go about this is-- I heard a bit of
18 number two,they bought in that area assuming 18 the testimony last month,it wasn't an objection
19 that it's residential. Okay. 19 to an antique shop,the question was if they
20 I had the opportunity this 20 knocked the buildings down and it's not an
21 afternoon to drive out there and refresh myself 21 antique shop,now we've got a business zoned
22 on exactly what this was,and with all due 22 property and it could be a McDonald's
23 respect to the petition and people that signed 23 drive-through or any number of things.
24 it--I tried to just give you some facts, I am 24 Maybe the way to look is to
Page 15 Page 17
1 not trying to sway your vote one way or the 1 have our city zoning officer,Bill Dettmer, look
2 other,that's not my role--the Village View 2 at a slight language change and then do it as an
3 Drive is a full width city street,and it's my 3 R-1 special use permit specific for the antique
4 opinion that people could park on both sides of 4 shop and those older buildings, so that if there
5 that street and not block traffic. 5 was a use change down the line, it would have to
6 It is sufficiently wide to do 6 go back through.
7 that. And I would say that as a person that 7 MR. BAKER: I like that.
8 responds to emergency calls. 8 MR. LINDBLOM: I think,in answer to
9 I will not speak to the fact 9 your question,I raised that same question about
10 about it was residential and so on and so forth. 10 why did we let this ever happen that there was
11 That's up to you folks to make up your own mind. 11 only one way into this,and I think the answer is
12 With that said,is there some 12 on your map,the street--this is Village View
13 other thoughts, some ideas, some concerns? Jeff? 13 Drive along here, 71 is up here. There is--
14 MR. BAKER: I have one. I don't 14 St. Joseph Way crosses over to Kings Mill Street
15 recall an access point being granted onto Village 15 over here. There is a stub of a road that's
16 View Drive. Was there? 16 going to lead for future into--
17 MR. KRAMER: No. 17 MR. BAKER: Country Hills?
18 MR. BAKER: Their only access is off 18 MR. LINDBLOM: Fox Highlands.
19 of 71,correct. 19 MR. BAKER: Oh,Fox Highlands.
20 MR. KRAMER: On the existing state 20 Okay.
21 access on 71,that is correct. 21 MR. LINDBLOM: There will be a
22 One thing that Andy had 22 future stub there. So in the future there will
23 mentioned--I've got to give credit where 23 be two ways in and out of this area. I said,
24 credit's due--when this was up last week,we've 24"How did we ever let that go by?"
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1 MR. SCHILLINGER: Isn't there two? 1 we'd work with Bill Dettmer,our zoning officer,
2 Isn't there two stubs? 2 in coming up with a niche, special use. It would
3 MR. LINDBLOM: There may be another 3 actually be a text amendment to the special use
4 one. 4 class.
5 MR. SCHILLINGER: Yes,there is. 5 MR. LINDBLOM: Technically,Dan,
6 There is two stubs. 6 should we put the motion in the affirmative to
7 MR. BAKER: So,Dan,how do you 7 approve this and then defeat that motion with the
8 think we should handle this from this point on if 8 recommendation that--
9 you are looking to change it? 9 MR. KRAMER: I wouldn't--I would
10 MR. KRAMER: Well,again,if your 10 do it,again,as a positive motion,recommending
11 feel is the proposed use is satisfactory-- and 11 the approval of the land use as the antique shop,
12 I'm not saying you have to do this,purely by way 12 but recommend to the City they do a zoning text
13 of suggestion--but if there was a fear among 13 change as a zoning use.
14 the Plan Commission that introducing a broad 14 MR. KUBALA: Rather than a
15 class of business zoning there was something you 15 designation.
16 didn't want to see and yet you felt the land use 16 MR. KRAMER: Exactly.
17 of doing something with those farm buildings and 17 MR. MIZEL: And can we ask if that's
18 preserving their heritage-- I suspect they are 18 acceptable to Mr. and Mrs. Greene?
19 turn-of-the-century models-- is a good thing, 19 MR. LINDBLOM: Do you understand?
20 that's a way to handle it if you think the land 20 MS. GREENE: Kind of. We could live
21 use is appropriate,the preservation of those 21 in the home at the same time?
22 farm buildings is a good idea,and yet protect 22 MR. KRAMER: Oh,sure. Your
23 the neighbors,and the petitioners get their 23 underlying zoning would stay the class it is,
24 use. 24 Mrs. Greene.
Page 19 Page 21
1 On the other hand,if you felt 1 MS. GREENE: Perfect,thank you.
2 the business is inappropriate in that area,then 2 MR. MIZEL: And then, sir-- I
31 am not in any way trying to stand against that, 3 forgot what your name was-- is that something
4 and if you feel the use totally is inappropriate, 4 that you as a resident of that subdivision,is
5 that's your call as an advisory body as well. 5 that what one of your concerns is?
6 MR. BAKER: No,I actually fully 6 MR. HESLOP: Well,yeah,not only
7 agree with what they are trying to do. My 7 that. The gentleman here stated at the last
8 concern is in the future if it was to sell off 8 meeting that there was a fence up the length of
9 and then go commercial that zoning could be a 9 his property,and if Mr. Lindblom was down there,
10 little more severe than we want. 10 he seen that it was not.
11 MR. KRAMER: Sure,in that area. 11 MR. LINDBLOM: That's correct.
12 MR. BAKER: However,for what they 12 Correct.
13 are asking for,I don't see any problems at 13 MR. HESLOP: Okay.
14 all. 14 MR. MIZEL: I saw it, also. I saw
15 MR. KRAMER: Again,you can give an 15 it,also. But I do believe somewhere in there it
16 advisory recommendation to the City Council that 16 said that he stated he would put a fence all the
17 you find the land use appropriate,the requested 17 way around it.
18 use,and recommend that there be a text change to 18 MR. HESLOP: Like I said,my concern
19 permit it as a special use rather than a change 19 and the citizens that live here,their concern
20 to business zoning. 20 was we bought here as residence and we want it to
21 MR. BAKER: Would they want to file 21 stay as residence.
22 under a different zoning then? 22 MR. MIZEL: And it would still be
23 MR. KRAMER: Well,I think they 23 residential because they would be living in the
24 would actually leave the residential use,but 124 house,but what I'm asking is if they change--
Depo Court Reporting Service Page 18 - Page 21
Naperville, Illinois (630) 983-0030
Plan Commission Multi-Page M United City of Yorkville, Illinois
April 9, 2003
Page 22 Page 24
1 if they change it to be a special use for that 1 acceptable.
2 antique store only and they occupy that home 2 MR. MIZEL: And Greenes,that's
3 also,is that something that is acceptable to the 3 acceptable to you?
4 residents? 4 MR. GREENE: Yes.
5 MR. HESLOP: No,that would be 5 MR. MIZEL: Okay. My job here is
6 unacceptable because it was already thrown at 6 done.
7 some of our residents that they had plans already 7 MS. GREENE: Well, I do have one
8 to park trailers,make storage. Now we are 8 other question. I'm sorry to interrupt.
9 talking about a bigger commercial situation. 9 MR. LINDBLOM: One second,please.
10 MR. MIZEL: And that wouldn't-- 10 MR. KING: My point was,yeah,I
11 Under the special use,it would be for the 11 like,you know,what we are saying here and so
12 antique store only. 12 forth,but that side street,is there any way to
13 MR. HESLOP: All right. 13 make that like no parking,which would help the
14 MR. MIZEL: Wait a minute,wait a 14 residents,too?
15 minute. If it's that way,is something like that 15 MR. LINDBLOM: My opinion --
16 acceptable so they could not do exactly what he 16 MR. BAKER: Park on both sides,
17 said,come through,tear the buildings down,put 17 what's the point.
18 a McDonald's? That would not happen unless it 18 MR. LINDBLOM: Parking is not a
19 came back to us again. 19 problem.
20 So I'm asking you,is that 20 MR. HESLOP: Yeah,but the
21 acceptable in your mind to the people--to the 21 stipulation this man made last month was he would
22 other residents there? 22 make parking one of his main objects out there
23 MR. HESLOP: Well,I can't speak for 23 in front of 71 there. Is that correct,
24 everybody there,but,I mean,that's why I am 24 Mr. Greene?
Page 23 Page 25
1 down here tonight because,like I said,a lot of 1 MR. KRAMER: Well, again,just like
2 them had fear. 2 we had a business went up last month where the
3 The thing of it was that their 3 district--we are talking on 47 and it was
4 attitude,they wanted to keep it residential. 1 4 fairly limited spacing-wise,but we are going to
5 mean, if they can keep it residential under that 5 the--you know,the mid-shops,the small offices
6 situation and keep his daughter under his 6 along there.
7 hands-- 7 Part of that process when they
8 MR. MIZEL: Well,we are not here to 8 come in for a building permit or change that use
9 do that. 9 is you've got to show some parking based on
10 MR. LINDBLOM: Let's leave that out 10 square footage and,yes,they would have to
11 of it,please. 11 provide off-street parking as well.
12 MR. MIZEL: My question,it's still 12 MR. LINDBLOM: Per our map,this is
13 residential with a special use permit for the 13 two acres. It's not a little one-acre piece of
14 antique store, is that acceptable? 14 property.
15 MR. HESLOP: In other words,they 15 MR. BAKER: Yes, I drove out and saw
16 can't do anything else but that antique store. 16 it.
17 MR. MIZEL: That's my understanding. 17 MR. SCHILLINGER: From what I saw
18 MR. HESLOP: Is that what we are 18 when I was there, I've got to believe there is
19 stipulating? 19 more than ample parking on the property itself.
20 MR. LINDBLOM: Correct. 20 With the fence that is there,
21 MR. HESLOP: Fine. 21 granted it's not-- it is not the full length of
22 MR. MIZEL: So that would be 22 the property at the moment,it was stated that
23 acceptable? 23 there is a desire to continue that and make it
24 MR. HESLOP: That would be 124 the full length of the property. It's an
Depo Court Reporting Service Page 22 - Page 25
Naperville, Illinois (630) 983-0030
.Plan Commission Multi-Page TM United City of Yorkville, Illinois
April 9, 2003
Page 26 Page 28
1 antique-type store,not an auction-type hut. 1 about what I can sell on this property,my son
2 MR. HESLOP: I understand that. 2 talked about the family farm in Wisconsin and we
3 MR. SCHILLINGER: Okay. So I don't 3 do sell apples from that,and the original plan
4 think you are going--you're not going to see 4 was to bring some apples in to do that,you know,
5 100 cars there at a time. 5 so that I am clear about what you are telling me
6 They do have their own 6 I can and can't sell there,then I have to be
7 entrance. The other issue that was brought up 7 able to park trucks in that barn and so forth and
8 that was a concern was the bus. 8 at least have a limited produce thing,too.
9 MR. HESLOP: I believe one of you 9 So if you are telling me I
10 gentlemen took care of that and I appreciate that 10 can't do that,that's fine,but I just want to be
11 because I notice the bus stopped backing into 11 clear before I leave what my rules are going to
12 Muirfield. 12 be. And I know that's throwing it a little
13 MR. SCHILLINGER: I was going to 13 bit--
14 say,there is ample--it would take a bus 14 MR. KRAMER: If there is an
15 driver--and this is an issue to be brought up 15 incidental sale or something like that or
16 to the school,not to us--but there is--from 16 somebody connected--I mean,I used to see--
17 what I saw,there is no reason for that school 17 Now that we see all the live geese we don't see
18 not--for that bus not to continue on through 18 so many goose products around,but they used to
19 one block and go to the turn-around. 19 sell statuary like goose bonnets and now that
20 MR. HESLOP: He does that now. They 20 we've got so many real ones,nobody wants goose
21 do that now. 21 stuff,but if you are selling something
22 MR. SCHILLINGER: Okay. There is no 22 incidental like that, I don't see that as a
23 reason --okay. That's all. 23 problem.
24 MR. CROUCH: If we could stay to the 24 MS. GREENE: Something seasonal like
Page 27 Page 29
1 straight and narrow here I think, I believe the 1 that.
2 issue of whether or not there is parking on a 2 MR. CROUCH: Merely an opinion of
3 city street is a matter for the city-- 3 the city attorney.
4 MR. KRAMER: Zoning staff will take 4 MR. KRAMER: I will not go out and
5 care of that. 5 shoot any geese.
6 MR. CROUCH: Exactly. I don't think 6 MS. LUCIETTO: Are we ready for a
7 that's our issue anymore than we would talk about 7 motion?
8 parking on any other city street connected to any 8 MR. LINDBLOM: Yes. Anne?
9 other business. 9 MS. LUCIETTO: I'll make the motion.
10 The issue is whether or not 10 The Planning Commission deems the land use R-1 to
11 this is acceptable as a use,and I think my 11 be appropriate for this land and requests that a
12 feeling is that based on the comments that people 12 text change to R-1 special use be considered by
13 have made,if the limitation is made,certainly 13 the City Council.
14 the business is going to provide on-site parking 14 MR. KRAMER: And I would put in the
15 as any other business would be required to do, 15 findings based on the fact that we are using,you
16 and,therefore,we have--through a lot of 16 know,the old buildings,we are trying to
17 careful work,we have I believe latched on to the 17 preserve some history here.
18 solution. 18 MR. LINDBLOM: For use as an antique
19 Let's take the solution and 19 shop.
20 move forward and not deal with these ancillary 20 MR. KRAMER: Right.
21 issues that I don't really think are part of this 21 MR. LINDBLOM: And also for use as
22 petition. 22 an antique shop.
23 MR. LINDBLOM: Mrs. Greene? 23 MS. LUCIETTO: So based on a use of
24 MS. GREENE: Just so I am very clear 24 existing buildings for an antique shop.
Depo Court Reporting Service Page 26 - Page 29
Naperville, Illinois (630) 983-0030
Plan Commission Multi-Page United City of Yorkville, Illinois
April 9, 2003
Page 30 STATE OF ILLINOIS) P e 32
1 MR. LINDBLOM: Correct. 1 )SS:
)
2 MR. KRAMER: Correct. 2 COUNTY OF DUPAGE
3 MR. CROUCH: I'll second that. 3
4 MR. LINDBLOM: Okay. Crouch will 4 CHRISTINE M. VITOSH,being first duly
5 second. 5 sworn,on oath says that she is a Certified
6 Does everybody understand the 6 Shorthand Reporter and Registered Professional
7 motion? 7 Reporter doing business in the State of Illinois;
8(No response) 8 That she reported in shorthand the
9 MR. LINDBLOM: Is there further 9 proceedings had at the foregoing meeting;
10 discussion on the motion? 10 And that the foregoing is a true and
1 l (No response) 11 correct transcript of her shorthand notes so
12 MR. LINDBLOM: Hearing none,can we 12 taken as aforesaid and contains all the
13 have a roll call,please? 13 proceedings had at the said meet;
14 MS. GIPE: Holdiman. 14 IN E WHERE F I e here n set
15 MR. HOLDIMAN: Yes. 15 my hand thi`i day of ,
16 MS. GIPE: Baker. 162003.
17 MR. BAKER: Yes. 17
18 MS. GIPE: Lucietto. 18
19 MS. LUCIETTO: Yes. 19
20 MS. GIPE: Davis. 20 CHRI TINE M.vITOS 4,C.S.R.
21 MR. DAVIS: Yes. 21 CSR License No. 084-002883
22 MS. GIPE: Adams. 22
23 MS.ADAMS: Yes. 23
24 MS. GIPE: Schillinger. 24
Page 31
1 MR. SCHILLINGER: Yes.
2 MS. GIPE: Jones.
3 MR. JONES: Yes.
4 MS. GIPE: Mizel.
5 MR. MIZEL: Yes.
6 MS. GIPE: King.
7 MR. KING: Yes.
8 MS. GIPE: Crouch.
9 MR. CROUCH: Yes.
10 MS. GIPE: Kubala.
11 MR. KUBALA: Yes.
12 MS. GIPE: And Lindblom.
13 MR. LINDBLOM: Yes.
14 MR. LINDBLOM: Motion passes. Thank
15 you very much,Mr. and Mrs. Greene. Thank you,
16 Mr. Heslop.
17(Which were all the
18 proceedings reported
19 at said meeting.)
20 ---000---
21
22
23
24
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Naperville, Illinois (630) 983-0030
Plan Commission Multi-Page`M 084-002883 - future
April 9, 2003 United City of Yorkville, Illinois
agenda[11 5:3 body pi 19:5 concern[sl 10:22 19:8 driver[11 26:15
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along[2] 17:13 25:6 21:20 14:16 duly[ll 32:4
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adjournment 7: 8:1 best[il 11:10 g[ ] 20:2 district[21 7:5 25:3 fought[ii 11:15
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board[i] 11:12 comprehensive[ll 16:1
Depo Court Reporting Service Index Page 1
Naperville, Illinois (630) 983-0030
.Plan Commission Multi-Page TM Game- Pledge
April 9, 2003 United City of Yorkville, Illinois
2:18 32:1,7 life-long[11 16:9 most[i1 13:3 on-site[i] 27:14
-G inappropriate[z] 19:2 limitation[11 27:13 motion[19] 4:11 5:2,12 One[17] 8:12,15,17 9:12
Game[1] 1:9 19:4 limited[21 25:4 28:8 6:2,4,5,11,18 13:14,20 10:6 14:15 15:1,14,22
incidental[21 28:15,22 Lindblom[s6] 2:2 3:3 14:6 20:6,7,10 29:7,9 30:7 17:1118:4 21:5 24:7,9,22
geese[21 28:17 29:5 30:10 31:14 26:9,19
individual[i] 16:9 4:6,7,15,18,21,23 5:15,18
gentleman[21 12:4 21:7 interrupt[i1 24:8 5:21,24 6:2,7,10,13,16,18 move[31 5:14,18 27:20 one-acre[il 25:13
gentlemen[41 3:3 9:10 6:21 7:10 8:7,12 9:22 10:2 moved[s1 4:13 5:15 ones[11 28:20
9:12 26:10 intersections[11 16:2 12:15 13:10,13,18,22 14:1 10:24 13:15,18 onto[i] 15:15
GIPE[261 2:14 3:6,8,10 introducing[11 18:14 14:3 17:8,18,21 18:3 20:5 Mrs[41 20:18,24 27:23
3:12,14,16,18,20,22,24 issue[7] 7:18,19 26:7,15 20:19 21:9,11 23:10,20 31:15 open[3] 9:6 ]1:5 12:8
4:2,4,6 30:14,16,18,20,22 27:2,7,10 24:9,15,18 25:12 27:23
MS[4o1 2:5,7,14 3:6,8,10 operation[i] 16:15
30:24 31:2,4,6,8,10,12 issues[i] 27:21 29:8,18,21 30:1,4,9,12 operations[11 16:11
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item p] 4:9 3:24 4:2,4,6 20:20 21:1 opinion[3] 15:4 24:15
gone[1] 16:12 itself[21 7:20 25:19 line[il 17:5 24:7 27:24 28:24 29:6,9 29:2
good[21 18:19,22 listened[11 7:23 29:23 30:14,16,18,19,20 opportunity[11 14:20
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hand[2] 19:1 32:15 Kind[11 20:20 man[1] 24:21 nice pl 11:18 28:7
handle[2] 18:8,20 King[61 2:11 3:24 4:1 map[3] 14:17 17:12 25:12 niche[i] 20:2 parked pi 14:16
hands[1] 23:7 24:10 31:6,7 March[4] 6:23 9:7 10:6 night[11 13:1 parking[9] 24:13,18,22
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heard pi 16:17
Kings[11 17:14 10:21 nobody 25:9,11,19 27:298,14
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6:4,6,13,22 7:15,17,22 8:8 knows[11 12:24 may[2] 7:13 18:3 none U] 4:17,18 5:21 6:13 27:21
13:13,14,19,22 14:3 30:12 KRAMER[191 2:16,17 McDonald's[2] 16:22 13:13,22 30:12 particular[il 9:5
hearings[11 8:1 6:19 15:17,20 18:10 19:11 22:18 noses[i] 11:21 passes[31 6:2918 31:14
19:15,23 20:9,16,22 25:1
help[i] 24:13 mean[s] 9:16 10:23 notes[i1 32:11 past[1] 7:21
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9:22 10:1,5 14:13 21:6,13 31:10,11 13:1 21:8 31:19 32:9,13 now[i�] 7:14 8:8,14 14:4 12:2,3,7 14:23 15:4 22:21
21:18 22:5,13,23 23:15 memories[1] 14:11 16:15,21 22:8 26:20,21 27:12
23:18,21,24 24:20 26:2,9 mention[11 10:9 28:17,19 people's[1] 9:15
26:20 31:16 mentioned[21 10:6 number[51 8:15,16 14:15 per[21 14:5 25:12
hey pi 11:21 Ladies[1] 3:3 15:23 14:18 16:23 Perfect[t] 21:1
high[i] 8:20 land poi 9:15,15 10:14 Merely[i1 29:2 numbers[11 14:7 permission[21 5:2,5
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Hills[11 17:17 29:10,11 mid-shops[1] 25:5 -O- 23:13 25:8
history[i] 29:17 language[i] 17:2 Mill[i] 17:14 oath[z] 7:8 32:5 person[31 8:17 9:21 15:7
last pol 7:13 8:3 9:7
Holdiman[s] 2:3 3:8,9 10:21 14:12 15:24 16:18 mind[21 15:11 22:21 objecting[21 10:4,5 personalities[i] 9:23
5:14 6:9,10 30:14,15 21:7 24:21 25:2 minute[31 8:21 22:14,15 objection[31 5:11 11:6 petition[7] 7:1 10:24
home[2] 20:21 22:2 latched[il 27:17 minutes[z] 4:10,23 16:18 11:8 14:12,14,23 27:22
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28:11
moment[i] 25:22 officer[z] 17:1 20:1 planned[i] 11:1
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idea[i] 18:22 length[31 21:8 25:21,24 month[6] 7:14 8:3 14:12 offices[2] 2:16 25:5
16:18 24:21 25:2 plans[1] 22:7
ideas[1] 15:13 leverage[1] 9:9 months[�] 7:14 Old[41 5:6 16:4,5 29:16
Illinois[6] 1:2,10 2:17 License[1] 32:21 older p] 17:4 Pledge[1] 3:1
Depo Court Reporting Service Index Page 2
Naperville, Illinois (630) 983-0030
Plan Commission Multi-Page TM point- Yorkville
April 9, 2003 United City of Yorkville, Illinois
point[61 7:16 15:15 16:7 reflect[11 6:19 See[71 18:16 19:13 26:4 stuff[1] 28:21 two-minute[1] 5:4
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preservation[11 18:21 remind[1] 8:13 severe[1] 19:10 suggestion[11 18:13 U.S[1] 11:15
preserve[1] 29:17 REPORT[11 1:6 shoot[11 29:5 supposed[11 11:1 unacceptable[11 22:6
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preventing[11 16:14 32:8 20:11 29:19,22,24 suspect[2] 16:3 18:18 under[41 19:22 22:11
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record[21 6:21 8:16 24:9 30:3,5 14:18 17:23 18:1,2,6 _
referred[1] 14:13 Seconded[21 4:15 6:10 stubs[21 18:2,6 25:13 -Z
Depo Court Reporting Service Index Page 3
Naperville, Illinois (630) 983-0030
.Plan Commission Multi-Page TM zoned- zoning
April 9, 2003 United City of Yorkville, Illinois
zoned 111 16:21
zoning pol 17:1 18:15
19:9,20,22 20:1,12,13,23
27:4
Depo Court Reporting Service Index Page 4
Naperville, Illinois (630) 983-0030