Plan Commission Minutes 2002 06-19-02 - - 1
UNITED CITY OF YORKVILLE
PLAN COMMISSION MEETING
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WEDNESDAY,JUNE 19,2002
Chairman Tom Lindblom called the meeting to order at 7:08 p.m.
ROLL CALL
Members present: Clarence Holdiman,Jeff Baker,Bill Davis,Brian Schillinger,Jack
Jones,Ted King,Michael Crouch,Andrew Kubala and Tom Lindblom.
Members absent: Kerry Green, Anne Lucietto, Sandra Adams and Tom Mizel.
A quorum was established.
VISITORS
Those who spoke at the meeting or signed the sign-in sheet were: Arthur Zwemke, Moser
Enterprises;John Philipchuck, attorney for DBC&W; Clayton Maker; Lynn Dubajic,
Yorkville Economic Development Commission; John Martin, JEN Land Design; City
Administrator Tony Graff, City Planner Mike Schoppe,Mayor Art Prochaska and City
Attorney Dan Kramer.
MINUTES
None
PUBLIC HEARINGS
None
OLD BUSINESS
None
NEW BUSINESS
L PC 2001-06 Grande Reserve: MPI 2 Yorkville LLC, petitioner,concept plan
review.
John Martin with Moser Enterprises outlined the Grande Reserve project. The project
calls for the development of 1,127 acres south of Galena Road and north of Route 34 to
be built out in 12 to 18 years. It likely would bring an additional 8,500 residents to the
community. Martin said Moser Enterprises has created a development that will
compliment and provide transitions to the existing network of country subdivisions and
take into account other influences such as the BNSF Railroad and Commonwealth
Edison.
The project calls for multiple residential uses tied together by an open space system. The
watershed follows the natural pattern of water. Martin said the developers are trying to
mimic the Blackberry Creek corridor which they anticipate will serve as a regional
benefit to the city.
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Martin said more intense land uses such as duplexes and townhomes will be placed along
the more intense influences on the property such as Commonwealth Edison and the
railroad. North of that will be single-family homes aimed to compliment the existing
neighborhoods. The northern homes will be the smallest homes in the development and
will sit on 7,2000 to 8,400 square foot lots.
South of the townhome and duplex developments is the heart of the Grande Reserve
Development. Homes will sit on 10,000 square foot minimum lots with average lot sizes
of 11,500 square feet.
Martin said the developers are trying to develop manageable sized neighborhoods with a
greenway system to break up those neighborhoods to provide a sense of community.
Each neighborhood will be clustered into pods of 20 to 30 acres and will have its own
sense of identity. Entrances to each neighborhood will be run through the open space
systems.
Open space will compliment existing open space. Also, none of the lots backing onto
Kennedy,Bristol or Route 34 will back up to the right of way. Berms or landscape
buffers will be put into place.
Art Zwemke, CEO of Moser Enterprises, based in Naperville, said the company is
creating an eastern gateway to Yorkville and the entire development will fall into the
Yorkville School District.
Zwemke said when the traffic study is conducted he knows there will be a concern
among the Commissioners and the community. However, he said the plan dispenses
traffic in a number of directions.
Overall, he said of the 1,127-acre development, more than 35 percent of it is open space.
The plan designates 12 parks over six acres in size on average. In the 56-acre northwest
regional park there is a stand of trees which will be saved. There also is an 88-acre
conservation area in the project.
Zwemke said a fee of$1,000 per home site would be assessed to put into the
improvement budget. There also will be a$2 to 2.5 millions private clubhouse built on
the property which could be mandatory for some homeowners to pay for and optional for
others.
As for the land/cash donation, Zwemke said 85 acres are required. The developers are
providing 102 acres of high and dry land. The 50 percent land donation includes 42.5
acres and the 50 percent cash donation totals$1.9 million.
Zwemke said he understands the city's requirement for 12,000 square foot minimum lots.
However, he said varying lot sizes creates a better atmosphere rather than a cookie-cutter
look.
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In all, there are 24 subdivisions planned in the development— 15 detached single-family,
eight attached single-family, and one apartment.
Based on comments from city staff and the Draft Comprehensive Plan, Zwemke said lots
in neighborhoods 13, 14 and 15 were made wider, but shorter. Also, lot sizes in
neighborhoods 16-20 were enlarged from 10,000 square feet to 11,000 square feet. Lots
in neighborhood 21 were enlarged from 10,000 square feet to 11,500 square feet. And in
neighborhoods 22 and 23 lots were widened by five feet and shortened by 10.
Zwemke asked the Plan Commission to allow the developers to vary lot width plus or
minus five feet to allow for a varying streetscape.
Under the city's transitional zoning requirements, up to 3.5 units per acre are allowed
provided additional open space is provided. Zwemke said the developers are at 3.0 units
per acre. Per the new formula, he said the developers would need to provide 15 percent
open space; they're currently at 14 percent. He's asking for some consideration from the
city.
Also, he said the acreage for attached homes in a development can't be over 20 percent
according to city regulations. He said they're slightly above that and is asking for the
city's indulgence.
Regarding schools, the developers need to provide 94 acres or$4.2 million in cash.
Zwemke said the plan includes a 30-acre site for an elementary school. Also, there is a
75-acre section of the property currently marked for townhomes and duplexes that could
be used for a high school.
Zwemke said the detached single-family homes account for 53 percent of the units in the
project and would bring in about 79 percent of the student population. The attached
single-family homes measure 36 percent of the project and would bring in about 17
percent of the student population. The apartments account for 11 percent of the project
and would add about 4 percent of students. Zwemke said the attached single-family
homes are a positive money generator for the school district.
Zwemke said the equalized assessed valuation of the homes be over$200,000 in the top
portion of the development and would increase to about$400,000. "We look at this as an
upscale community,"he said.
As for infrastructure, Zwemke said there isn't any now. In the water area, Oswego has
some temporary capacity, he said. He added the developers are trying to work out some
intergovernmental agreements. Ultimately, it would be a back-up emergency system once
a permanent water infrastructure is put into place. The site likely will require one water
storage tower on site and probably two wells.
He said the developers are looking into several sources for sanitary service including two
Fox Metro lines and possibly the future Yorkville-Bristol Blackberry Creek interceptor
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and the Yorkville-Bristol Menards interceptor. He said they'd like to visit the border
between the sanitary districts. Fox Metro could service some of the area to the west of
Bristol Ridge, he said. There is a limited amount of capacity of the line that comes out of
Menards and developers are aware of the sensitivity for the Blackberry Creek interceptor.
Zwemke said some financial matters that need to be addressed. For one, he said there's
different treatment methodology. Where the project is located and where the proposed
treatment facility is located, there's a three mile gap. Untreated water would have to
travel three-miles to the treatment site. The developers need to discuss options with the
city, he said. He added that infrastructure is costly and needs to be coordinated and timed.
Commissioner Jeff Baker said he likes the way the concept is laid out. However, he
wanted to know who would build the new school and he said he is opposed to the smaller
lot sizes. He said he's always been a stickler for 12,000 square foot lot sizes. "We'll need
some movement there in my opinion,"he said.
Zwemke said the developers have not appeared before the school board. However, he
said seed money could possibly come from transition fees.
As for lot sizes, he said varying lot sizes gives the development more public open space.
Baker said people are fleeing from developments that have large houses on small lots.
However,Zwemke said many two-income families don't have a lot of time for yard work
and don't want a large yard. The developers think a better land plan is to have varying lot
sizes and to provide more public open space. The developers could cut down on public
open space and have bigger lots. However, Zwemke said he thinks a better community is
created with shorter lots and additional land provided for public open space.
If the city holds to its side yard and front yard setbacks,the city is not going to have
houses too big for the lots, he said.
Zwemke said the next step is to give the commission a portfolio of average homes in each
of the price ranges for the commission to see.
Commissioner Brian Schillinger said the commission has been very strict on 12,000 lots.
The only proposed plan with smaller lots that has been approved included lots that were
backed up to open spaces, he said. He added that is not something being proposed in this
plan, he said.
Zwemke said the buffer strips are 40 acres. However, Schillinger said those are unusable
green spaces.
In reference to entryways,Zwemke said the theory of the plan is to keep out through
traffic to get from one neighborhood to the other. He said the whole plan is to keep the
neighborhood intimate. Schillinger pointed out that they seem to bottleneck. Zwemke
said the traffic pattern would be looked at. He also said the open space areas can been
revised to suit. It's a work in process, he said `7�
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Commissioner Jack Jones said he has a number of concerns. For one, he said Bristol
wouldn't be happy about the development backing up to their back yard. Next, he said
Montgomery made a mistake allowing smaller lot sizes. He said Yorkville doesn't need
to make the same mistake with smaller lot sizes. Also several areas go against the
Comprehensive Plan. "Do we throw out all the work we've done so far?" he said. Citing
another concern,he said pods 21, 22, 23 and 18 abut two lots where people have been
there a long time. Most of their lots are a lot bigger. In those areas they need to be closer
to estate size. Also,just because Oswego planned for high density, Yorkville doesn't
need to follow suit. He said a high-density development is not what the city envisioned
for that area. Lastly, he said that larger upscale housing does not add as much density as
townhomes and duplexes, according to the expert who helped the city draft the transition
fees.
Zwemke said, "It's not the lot size. It's the amenities and how you feel."He said the
market shows an upsurge in what people are putting into their homes.
Jones said a lot of the areas in the proposal go against the comprehensive plan. Zwemke
said three of the issues the developers think are improvements to the comprehensive plan.
One area of the comprehensive plan calls for homes to be built. In place of homes,the
developers have a regional park. Zwemke said he thinks that's a better use. In another
area developers have moved a dividing line on the plan a few degrees, increasing the
home site area. As for the estate lots, he said the spirit of the estate lots are about ones
home per acre. He said the developers have 58 lots on 120 acres in that area.
He said he'd like the commission to take a look at the whole package. He said the
tradeoffs are improvements.
Jones said he still thinks lot sizes are still too small in neighborhoods 21, 22, 23 and 18.
Zwemke said apples and oranges are being compared. The existing homes are modest,
well-kept homes built in the 1960s and 1970s. He said the new homes would raise the
value of the existing property.
Prochaska said the additional language needs to be added to the comprehensive plan to
define"transitional neighborhood" when it comes up to existing county subdivisions.
Schillinger said the 7,200 and 8,500 square-foot lots are tight. He said the commission
has prescribed to the feeling that Yorkville doesn't care what other towns are doing. It
wants to create its own personality.
In response, Zwemke said the lot sizes are allowable in the comprehensive plan. He said
they could build on 5,000 square foot lots and meet the requirements. He said he's asking
the commission to look at the whole picture.
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Commission Chairman Tom Lindblom said he'd feel better if the commission could see a
proposed layout of some of the pods. He might be more comfortable with lot sizes of
8,400 or 9,000 square feet if he could see the layout.
Commissioner Andrew Kubala said the commission should recognize the need to do a
transitional type of neighborhood. He said if the developer's plan comes close to what is
in the comprehensive plan, it's moving in the right direction.
Lindblom said if there are just a few homes that can take advantage of a large, open green
space, he is concerned about the other homes that won't have that advantage.
Kubala said the city needs to meet the market's demands.
Schillinger asked if the community was more concerned about the market or its personal
needs. He said the market wasn't developed 100 years ago,but the town's character was.
Commissioner Michael Crouch said if the commission is uncomfortable with the
transitional neighborhood, maybe the comprehensive plan should be changed. Schillinger
said, however, the plan is guide, not a guideline.
Zwemke said he'd show the commission a plan of the homes. If the commission still calls
for larger lots, then the green space could be smaller.
City Planner Mike Schoppe pointed out that what the commission does sets the tone for
the 3,000 to 4,000 acres of the transitional zone. He said the foundation for the design
criteria is the trade off and the balance for density and open space. The city wanted to
know how to get more open space in the city's developments. He said the city provides
incentives for more green space and the offsetting issue is density.
"Is 7,200 square foot lots and the densities that are achievable by that too far to the end
of the spectrum or should it be 8,000 or 9,000 or 10,000," Schoppe said. He said if the
transition zoning is going to work it will be less than 10,000 square feet if the city wants
to get 15 to 20 percent additional open space.
Schoppe said that the city's looked at the statistical analysis and said the statistics of this
plan are close to the comprehensive plan. The maxim density allowed in the transitional
zone is six to seven units per acre. The density for apartments would be higher. He
suggested the commission share their thoughts on the issue with the developers.
Baker said he likes where apartments and townhomes are located. Zwemke said 360
apartments are planned on 24 acres. He said none would be placed next to single-family
homes. He said the developers will show the commission product types. He said the size
of the community will guarantee amenities such as a clubhouse or high speed Internet
service.
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Kubala said he doesn't think anyone on the commission is pleased with 11 to 12 units per
acre density,but he said overall he think the developer has done a good job.
Zwemke said gross overall the density is 2.49 units per acre. That number includes 102
acres of high and dry land and 422.3 acres overall which includes wetlands, flood plain or
detention. Kubala said that makes the statistic grossly misleading. Schillinger said
detention, wetland and conservation area hasn't been included. Schoppe said that it
generally is included. Schillinger said that the clubhouse shouldn't be included because
it's a private club.
Lindblom said one of the next steps is for the developers to show the commission more
about the product and to provide a sample layout.
The meeting adjourned at 9:10 p.m.
Minutes respectfully submitted by Dina Gipe