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Plan Commission Minutes 2001 01-10-01 UNITED CITY OF YORKVILLE PLAN COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES JANUARY 10, 2001 Chairman Lindblom called the meeting to order at 7:00 P.M. Roll Call: Members Present: Others Present: Sandra Adams Mayor Prochaska Jeff Baker Joe Wywrot Bob Wenman Rich Sticka Andrew Kubala Tony Graff Clarence Holdiman Brian Schillinger Jack Jones Joe Besco Janet Reaves Andrew Kubala Tom Lindblom A quorum was established. Chairman Lindblom explained the Public Hearing process and asked that speakers not repeat the something again. Plan Commission will then close the Public Hearing and the Commission will discuss the issues and ask questions of the petitioner. The motions would be done after all public hearings were concluded and the Commission had gone into the Old Business portions of the meeting. Minutes Mr. Kubala motioned and Mr. Wenman seconded to accept the minutes of the meeting of the December 13 2000 Plan Commission On a voice vote all members present voting yes. Motion carried. Chairman Lindblom asked that those wishing to speak during the public hearings stand, and he would administer the oath to speakers. Chairman Lindblom asked for a motion to open the public hearing for PC 2000-21 Fields of Fox Hill, formerly Davis Downs and that this would include a approval of a Preliminary Plan. Mr. Wenman motioned and Mr. Jones seconded to go into public hearing for PC 2000-21 Field of Fox Hill. On a voice vote all member s present voting yes. Motion carried. 1 Public Hearing: PC 2000-21 Fields of Fox Hill (formerly Davis Downs) Dresden Properties, Inc. and Dr. William Davis and Cheryl Davis seeking to annex approximately 78 acres into the United City of Yorkville and re-zone from Kendall County A-1 Agricultural zoning to United City of Yorkville R-2 One Family Residence District zoning. The property is located south and east of Routes#34 and Eldamain Road, and north of River Road adjacent to the Fox Hill subdivision. Mr. Ron Gamrath, on behalf of the petitioner gave an outline of the project which is 78 acres south of the existing Fox Hill. Proposed is a 165 lot subdivision, of this 68 acres would be lots and 11 acres to right-of-way and 9 acres as park land to be dedicated to the City. This would be 2.12 dwelling units per acre, and they are seeking R-2 zoning with a special use of a PUD. They are requesting approval from Plan Commission and annexation from City Council at a later time. Mr. Michael Cap, designer of Fields of Fox Hill spoke on the petitioners behalf stating that the land pitches to the south, and will connect to the Fox Hill development by way of Aspen Lane which will give them access out of the development. They propose a temporary access along the Davis driveway through the Davis property to River Road with a locked gate. There would be a lift station in the southwest corner of the property. The Fox Hill sewer has plenty of capacity. The Park Board has expressed a desire for a cash contribution rather than the donation of land for a large park here. They had allocated a large and generous portion of land for a park which would have a connection to the Bike Path. They are requesting that street widths be reduced to 28 feet back to back to match those in Fox Hill and the collector, Golden Willow to 36 feet. They have found that slightly narrower streets have a traffic calming effect. Also there is a small curve on Golden Willow. He stated that concludes his presentation. Chairman Lindblom asked if they were also asking for a rolled curb rather than the required vertical and an off site detention. Mr. Cap explained that vertical curbs are a barrier, and they would do that on Golden Willow, but on the other streets they wanted to do a 3" rise since vertical curbs require saw cutting at every driveway entrance. Mr. Glen Nelson, nearby resident stated he was adamantly against this property being developed with the off-site detention which is a wetland and 90% of the time you can't walk there. Farms in the area have water problems already. Field tiles come to a point 15 feet west which is an open collection area for all tiles. Mr. Cap stated he wanted to make several points. The natural pitch flows northeast to southwest. The detention is a permanent pool off the southwest corner and is identified as wetlands, there is a 2nd wetlands east of the horse track. They plan to stay clear of that wetland and they will repair any damaged tiles during construction. City Ordinances require them to calculate run-off and 100 year storm with full development taken into account. 2 Mr. Nelson stated that Dr. Davis has already damaged the tiles putting in his horse track. There are a lot of water concerns for this area. Mr. Cap stated they would talk to Dr. Davis again about filed tiles that cross his property. Mr. Nelson stated that the tiles are a max, and if they add to that there won't be enough storm water storage. Mr. Cap stated that he can't promise it will never flood, but they use common engineering principles and calculate what is necessary. This development won't flood. Mr. Nelson stated it won't flood them, it will flood the surrounding farms. Fox Hill's development has caused more flooding already. Chairman Lindblom stated the point is well taken, the Plan Commission recognizes water is a problem. Mr. Nelson stated he has strong feelings about being crowded by subdivision, he is a cattle farmer and new people will then object to his farm, and the smell, etc. He hasn't convinced me. Chairman Lindblom stated he has to convince the City. Mr. Dave Beck stated the north end won't flood, it will come down to the south end. In the past the broken field tiles have caused farm land to flood. Holding water will keep farm land wet for a long time, and asked if all field tiles will be connected to storm sewers. Mr. Cap stated they could attempt to do that, but it is difficult to locate them all. State law requires that any field tile encountered is to be repaired or tied into the storm sewer. Mr. Charlie Marshall asked if it will be maintained. Mr. Cap stated any filed tile in a street will be destroyed, but upstream it will be connected to the storm sewer, and any tiles at the east edge will be tied in to storm sewers, so any filed tiles on the subject property would be useless. Mr. Tom Ruane stated it sounds like a lot of water 6-8" flows full. How do you account for that. Mr. Cap stated that alone this storm sewer is 24" and includes bypass flow. Mr. Charlie Marshall asked if there would be covenants to protect the farmers to eliminate nuisance lawsuits. Mr. Gamrath stated these concerns could be brought up. Mr. Marshall asked if they could provide them with the rate of flow after a 2" or 5" rain. 3 Mr. Cap stated he could get that for him. Mr. Ruane stated this plan is flawed,he has lots of reservations about this development. He asked if Dr. Davis' property would also be annexed to the City. Mr. Cap stated it would not. Mr. Gamrath stated they are annexing only what was offered for sale to them. Mr. Cap stated that Dr. Davis will grant permanent access to the City to the detention pond and will maintain the detention. Mr. Marshall asked what provisions would be made to prevent salt from flowing into the detention and out to the farms. Mr. Cap stated they can't control salt used by the City for de-icing. There will be salt in the runoff. He uses catch basins at the end of each street to collect sediment, but the lake is intended to be a permanent pool of water. Mr. Marshall asked that if this plan moves forward there should be a recommendation to prevent a road to the south and to River Road. Mr. Nelson asked about plans for the transcontinental line. Mr. Cap stated it has been abandoned. Mr.Nelson stated they still have a fine posted. Mr. Cap stated this was a concern when they did Fox Hill. The A T & T cable was abandoned. Mr. Ruane stated the emergency access question was not answered. Chairman Lindblom stated that it would be discussed tonight, he could count on that. Mr. Nelson stated he was adamant about cutting into prime farm land, and wanted the City of Yorkville to sign off. His aunt who is 81 years old and the owner of their farm shouldn't have to be put through this. Chairman Lindblom stated this was an unreasonable request at this time, but they should put their trust in the people on this Commission to do what is right for the people of Yorkville and it's area. Mr. Beck asked if they would put the berm on their land and not on the farmers land as was done before. 4 Ms. Ruth Nelson stated that she owns the parcel to the east of the subject property, and wants to keep this as a farm. Developers come to the country and take away their heritage. Chairman Lindblom asked for a motion to close the public Hearing. Mr. Kubala motioned and Mr. Besco seconded to go out of public hearing for PC 2000-21. On a voice vote all member s present voting yes. Motion carried. OLD BUSINESS: PC 2000-21 Fields of Fox Hill (formerly Davis Downs) Dresden Properties, Inc. and Dr. William Davis and Cheryl Davis seeking to annex approximately 78 acres into the United City of Yorkville and re-zone from Kendall County A-1 Agricultural zoning to United City of Yorkville R-2 One Family Residence District zoning. The property is located south and east of Routes 934 and Eldamain Road, and north of River Road adjacent to the Fox Hill subdivision. Chairman Lindblom asked for discussion on PC 2000-21. Mr. Kubala stated that the Commission had looked at this as a concept a few months ago and made recommendations, and he wondered why this was back without those issues being addressed. Mr. Cap stated that the adjoining owner will not sell them any property for use as a second access, but he will agree to emergency access. Mr. Besco stated that 162 home and 2 cars per home is a lot to have 1 access that is not even an arterial. Chairman Lindblom stated that as a expert on emergency access, this Commission will not approve one way in only because future access does not always materialize. He is adamant about not approving with only one access. Other questions have not been addressed either. Why is the scale not what is asked for. Mr. Cap stated he apologized for the scale but wanted to be able to put the lake site on and it would be too large. Mr. Jones stated there is a long laundry list, and they would like to see this more in line with the City requirements. Mr. Wenman asked who maintains the emergency access, continuing that this won't work. Mr. Gamrath stated he could provide the City with appropriate documents. 5 Mr. Kubala stated the detention should be a part of the development and on the same property. for control. Mr. Bake stated it should be open tot he subdivision. Mr. Gamrath stated they could go back to Dr. Davis and try to negotiate this. Mr. Schillinger stated this detention won't get City of Yorkville support. Mr. Besco stated curbs and streets don't meet standard. Snow plows and narrow streets don't work. Chairman Lindblom asked if the City had done some tests on this issue. Chief Graff stated 28 feet is the national standard. Promotes traffic calming and we have just passed a Snow Plan that will prohibit parking on streets after 2" of snow falls. Mr. Schillinger asked about the Bike Path next to the road. Mr. Cap stated this was in lieu of sidewalk. Mr. Gamrath stated they are trying to mesh many different issues. Ms. Reaves asked what the build out rate would be. Mr. Cap stated 30 to 40 home per year at best, complete in approximately 6 years. Mr. Schillinger stated that as an arterial roadway Golden Willow Drive is an arterial leading from nowhere to nowhere. Mr. Kubala stated this is a mistake. Chairman Lindblom stated the Plan Commission has memos from Mr. Wywrot and Mr. Schoppe and asked for their comments. Mr. Wywrot stated the main issues are on his hit list. Mr. Schoppe stated he would share some thoughts on the road issue. The problem with this plan is that everything goes through Fox Hill. If we don't have the proper infrastructure to support the development,then it is not time to develop the property yet. Unless proper roads are in place we have to think about weather it is timet o develop this property. Mr. Schillinger stated he has just one more point and that is that the park has bad access for all residents. 6 Mr. Kubala motioned and Ms. Adams seconded a motion to annex PC 2000-21 Fields of Fox Hill (formerly Davis Downs) y Dresden Properties, Inc. and Dr. William Davis and Cheryl Davis of=proximately 78 acres into the United City of Yorkville On a roll call vote this failed to Pass. Sandra Adams-No Jeff Baker-Yes Bob Wenman-Yes Andrew Kubala Clarence Holdiman-No Brian Schillinger-yes Jack Jones-Yes Joe Besco-Yes Janet Reaves-No Andrew Kubala-No Tom Lindblom-No Motion defeated. Mr. Jones motioned and Mr. Wenman seconded to adjourn. On a voice vote all members voting yes. Motion carried. Adjournment at 8:45 PM Adjourned at 8:50 PM Minutes by Sandy Marker 7